Slaves to Sin?

[B-A-C]

A long time ago... a man sinned. Because he sinned, the sin nature is passed on to the rest of us.

Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Psa 51:5; Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

"All" have sinned, everyone except Jesus. You, me, everyone.

Rom 3:19; Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
Gal 3:22; But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

God's Word... God Himself, has kept us all under sin. We all were born with a sinful nature. None of us will be able to say we never sinned.

1Jn 1:8; If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

John 8:34; Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

... but then, everything changed. Jesus came, died of the cross, was the perfect sacrifice for sin, and the Holy Spirit came. We were set free.

We are no longer slaves to sin. We do not have to sin. Now when we sin, we sin because it's our choice to do so, not because sin is master over us.

Rom 6:17; But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18; and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:20; For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

We should have put off the old man, clothed ourselves with Christ and put on the new man.

Rom 6:6; knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

One of the great differences between Armenianism and Calvinism is that one side believes sin will keep you out of heaven, the other side does not.
Now they will say something like, if you were really saved you wouldn't do those things. But in the next breath they will say I still sin every day ( ????? )

Now I'm not saying we have to be perfect.

Prov 24:16; For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.

But we can't continue to live in sin, to practice sin.
Jesus told us to be "perfect".

Matt 5:48; "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Now why would Jesus tell us to do something that is impossible for us to do? Some say it's impossible, but it really isn't.
There were a number of perfect people in the Bible besides Jesus.

Gen 6:9; These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
Job 1:1; There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.
Luke 1:5; In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luke 1:6; They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

So... even though all have sinned, and all are born into the sinful nature, it "IS" possible to live perfect and blameless before the Lord.

Now I have a bit of a confession here... I have not been able to stay sin-free since I became a believer. But I have quit doing a lot of the things I used to do.
I do not sin every day. Sometimes I don't sin every week. Have I been able to go a month? I don't know, but I certainly I have not made it a year.

Rom 6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Rom 6:10; For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

We are no longer slaves to sin!!! We do not have to sin!!! In fact we shouldn't sin.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

If you're still living the way you lived before you became a believer, you really need to examine yourself. If sin is still master over you, and you practice sinning every day, I have serious doubts about your salvation.

If you say you know Jesus, but you're still sinning every day, you're a liar!

1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[B-A-C]

Some say, you're not perfect. No I already admitted I am not. But I do not sin every day, I do not live in sin. I do not practice sin.
I've heard some say, well what about the sins you didn't know you committed? I don't believe there is such a thing if you have the Holy Spirit.
If you've sinned, you know you've sinned.

John 16:8; "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
Unless... you've reached the point where....

1Tim 4:2; by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Your conscience has become callous and seared over. You no longer feel any remorse for the sinning you are doing.
You no longer even care of you ever change.

 

[KingJ]

Some say, you're not perfect. No I already admitted I am not. But I do not sin every day, I do not live in sin. I do not practice sin.

I agree with most of your OP but your second post and this line especially does not seem to make sense. If you acknowledge you are not perfect then you acknowledge you still sin. If a thought can be a sin, you definitely sin daily. Maybe if you sleep the entire day you won't sin.

Before I tackle the context of the scriptures you quoted we all need to understand the following about sin:

1. An immoral thought is a sin Matt 5:28.
2. Paul sinned Rom 7:15 For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
3. Paul did not commit the mortal sin of murdering Christians after conversion.
4. Paul references actual / observable continuation / unrepentant in sins in his passages on sin, like the classic 1 Cor 6:9-12 for example.
5. When we accept Jesus we are washed clean of all sin. Current and future. We are made perfect to God, not perfect like God. IE we still make mistakes of sin. Only God is perfect and without sin Mark 10:18.
6. Anyone who says they do not sin is a liar. This includes the Pope and every Christian. 1 John 1:8-10.
7. God wants us to be ''sinless'' in the context of us truly hating what is evil, not actually being ''sinless''. Rom 7:15 and Rom 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
8. Sin is defined as doing anything against the will of God. If we could not sin, we would have no free will. No free will is evil. God is not evil. Please meditate on this fact.
9. Angels in heaven sin 1 Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels.

Conclusion:

When we truly hate what is evil, we are able to truly repent. When we are first saved our desire to hate what is evil reaches a depth that God judges as worthy of being washed by the blood of Jesus and cleansed from all sin. As such, a Christian should never be able to commit a mortal sin. Or go on in many venial sins. But , make no mistake, since we are not God and will always have true free will, we will always battle with venial sins. Not 'continue' unrepentant in sins but certainly make many 'mistakes' of sin. From now to infinity. Battling with venial sins does not equate to 'continuing' in sin. We are quick to repent and grasp that there are levels of sin. Most come terribly unstuck on the topic of sin because they ignore scripture that talks to levels of sin. If you are this person, please just meditate on the fact that a thought can be a sin to God.

 

[KingJ]

A long time ago... a man sinned. Because he sinned, the sin nature is passed on to the rest of us.

I don't agree, You are reading into scripture and making an incorrect statement. There is no 'sin nature from Adam'. This statement implies original sin. IE 1. Sin is engraved into our dna and 2. We can be born sinful. This is not true. Absolute heresy in fact.

The truth is:

1. God made us in the flesh. The flesh is weak and more prone to sinning then the spirit.
2. We are born into an environment where sin takes place.

Very important to clarify this. We become sinful because of our own free will choice to sin. Not because we have a sinful nature in our dna from Adam. Nobody is going to stand before God and blame Adam for their sinful nature. No babies are born with sin.

Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Very important to clarify that by the obedience of One many will be made righteous. IE Nobody is made righteous unless they decide to repent. Likewise, nobody is guilty of sin, unless they decide to sin.

Because 1. Adam has introduced sin into the world and 2, God made us in a weak flesh, we will all inevitably sin. But this sin is still our doing. God made us in a 'clean and perfect flesh'. Babies are 100% innocent.

Psa 51:5; Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Think of a baby as a pearl. A pearl was placed in mud. The pearl is not mud. I certainly hope you are not assuming the latter. Original sin is heretical and a twisting of scripture.

 

[B-A-C]

1. An immoral thought is a sin Matt 5:28.

I do not think immoral thoughts every day, or even every week for that matter.

I don't agree, You are reading into scripture and making an incorrect statement.

And yet I gave a few scriptures to support my view, you gave none.

1. God made us in the flesh. The flesh is weak and more prone to sinning then the spirit.

Rom 8:4; so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5; For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6; For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Very important to clarify this. We become sinful because of our own free will choice to sin. Not because we have a sinful nature in our dna from Adam. Nobody is going to stand before God and blame Adam for their sinful nature. No babies are born with sin.

And yet the Bible says the complete opposite, we are born into sin.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

1Cor 15:21; For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
1Cor 15:22; For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

No one has a choice not to sin, until they get saved and receive the Holy Spirit, then and ONLY then they have the power to overcome sin.

 

[B-A-C]

Original sin is heretical and a twisting of scripture

The "original sin" is a Roman Catholic doctrine. But to me, the original sin wasn't Adam and Eve taking the fruit, it was Satan rebelling against God before that happened.

Ezek 28:13; "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezek 28:14; "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:17; "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
Ezek 28:18; "By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.

Obviously OSAS doesn't apply to Angels either.

 

[B-A-C]

We are born into an environment where sin takes place.

This is the different between conservatism and liberalism at it's core.

One believes man was born evil and learns to be good through outside influence ( i.e. Jesus )
The other believes man was born good and learns to be bad through outside influence. ( totally unBiblical )

This is where many have a flawed theology, they think everyone is headed to heaven, then something happens, and they think 'God sends' them to hell. Wrong! It's the opposite.
Everyone is born headed to hell, and 'God saves' from of them from it.

Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Think of a baby as a pearl. A pearl was placed in mud. The pearl is not mud.

1Cor 7:14; For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

If one parent is saved, then this is true, if not... they are "unclean".

It's funny that in another thread, you state "Before we were adopted, we were under the law. A slave. Not a child of God."

 

[B-A-C]

The flesh is weak and more prone to sinning then the spirit.

You think the Spirit can sin?

Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Gal 6:7; Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
Gal 6:8; For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Rom 8:5; For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6; For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
Rom 8:7; because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Rom 8:8; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

... it's what keeps us from sinning.

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 2:17; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'
Rev 2:26; 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
Rev 3:5; 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev 3:12; 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7; "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Who receives eternal life? Those who succumb to sin, or those who overcome it?

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
Rom 6:17; But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18; and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[KingJ]

And yet the Bible says the complete opposite, we are born into sin.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

1Cor 15:21; For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
1Cor 15:22; For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

None of these verses speak to original sin. Read them properly.

Rom 5:12 death spread because all sinned.
Rom 5:19, 1 Cor 15:21-22 As I have already explained these require some applied logic. Namely 'Nobody is made righteous unless they decide to repent. Likewise, nobody is guilty of sin, unless they decide to sin'.

Take a step back and try picture the events before you get blinded by cherry picked scripture. God made Adam and Eve without sin, but in a weak flesh. God then put the devil in the garden with them. Adam and Eve then sinned and were removed from Eden. They entered an environment that had the curse of their sin, death as scripture says. This environment of death is the context of Rom 5:19 and 1 Cor 15:21-22.

IE We are all pearls placed in a muddy pool. We are 'not' mud placed in a muddy pool. Very important to get this right.

No one has a choice not to sin, until they get saved and receive the Holy Spirit, then and ONLY then they have the power to overcome sin.

Of course they do. You created an entire thread speaking to punishment according to deeds and now you make this statement? We are accountable for every sin we commit. We choose to do it. Saved or not saved. A rapist can say 'NO' to raping. He is only battling a weak flesh. But that is not an excuse for committing the sin. We are all guilty of sin as it is so easy to sin. Thoughts can be a sin Matt 5:28.

My disagreement is only on 'original sin'. If it were true we would / could go to hell for eternity even if we never sinned and did not repent of the sin we did not commit. Its a rather silly belief.

Let's not confuse the fact that all adults will sin with all being born with sin. All are born in an environment where sin takes place. This is why I say we all sin daily.

 

[KingJ]

This is the different between conservatism and liberalism at it's core.

One believes man was born evil and learns to be good through outside influence ( i.e. Jesus )
The other believes man was born good and learns to be bad through outside influence. ( totally unBiblical )

This is where many have a flawed theology, they think everyone is headed to heaven, then something happens, and they think 'God sends' them to hell. Wrong! It's the opposite.
Everyone is born headed to hell, and 'God saves' from of them from it.

Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Completely disagree. 'Wages of sin is death', children are not guilty of sin. Its like a really silly statement for a Christian to make. Shocked that some believe this. Its insane.

What gets someone into hell is hardening their heart to repentance of sin. This happens when an adult loves what is evil full measure Gen 15:16.

Everyone else, goes to heaven. Original sin implies God can send babies and mentally handicapped people to hell. Or, destroy them in the fires of hell if you believe in annihilationism. Anyone suggesting God would do this to babies has completely failed at grasping every scripture that defines Him. I love Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God would be wicked or pervert justice. Why is it not unthinkable for you BAC?

Now, I do agree that nobody qualifies to stay with God in 'heaven' for eternity unless they repent of their sins and accept Jesus. This just means that God will give babies, children and mentally handicapped people another chance to be tempted. Most scholars I have spoken to acknowledge that this is the plan for the millennium.

Rev 20:7-8 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

When the Israelites wanted God to destroy the Canaanites, were they referring to the children? Oh, dear Lord, please free us from the vicious cruelty of the children that TP my house and those babies that poop everywhere....

 

[B-A-C]

Everyone else, goes to heaven.

Now, I do agree that nobody qualifies to stay with God in 'heaven' for eternity unless they repent of their sins and accept Jesus.

At first I was going to ask, do you see any conflict between these two phrases. Everyone goes to heaven, and only those who accept Jesus will go to heaven.
But you did put a little "qualifier" phrase in here. "for eternity". So then, does that mean some go to heaven, but not for eternity?

children are not guilty of sin.

This is of course very controversial, but many believe there is an "age of accountability", and you are responsible for all sin you commit after that.
What age is that? I think it's different for different people, maybe as young as 8 or 9 in some cases. But I know people in their 30's who still aren't responsible or accountable for anything.

What age makes you a child? Or an adult for that matter? Here in the US, when you turn 18 ( in some states it's 21 ) you are considered an adult. But I assure you, many children
know the difference between right and wrong long before they turn 18. They will be held accountable if they don't accept Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

So then, does that mean some go to heaven, but not for eternity?

Either heaven temporarily or they would stay in the grave. Like a coma until the second coming.

All humans need to be tested. God is impartial. if He put the devil with Adam, He will do so with all.

This is of course very controversial, but many believe there is an "age of accountability", and you are responsible for all sin you commit after that.
What age is that? I think it's different for different people, maybe as young as 8 or 9 in some cases. But I know people in their 30's who still aren't responsible or accountable for anything.

What age makes you a child? Or an adult for that matter? Here in the US, when you turn 18 ( in some states it's 21 ) you are considered an adult. But I assure you, many children
know the difference between right and wrong long before they turn 18. They will be held accountable if they don't accept Jesus.

All under twenty were spared in the wilderness Num 14:29.

As God is impartial, He would need to give all that are 0-19 the same courtesy.

 

[B-A-C]

Exod 12:12; 'For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments—I am the LORD.

2Sam 12:13; Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.
2Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
2Sam 12:18; Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!"

1Sam 15:2; "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt.
1Sam 15:3; 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"

Hos 13:16; Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

 

[Brad Huber]

Exod 12:12; 'For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments—I am the LORD.

2Sam 12:13; Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.
2Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."
2Sam 12:18; Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!"

1Sam 15:2; "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt.
1Sam 15:3; 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"

Hos 13:16; Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

I agree with you but.... those are all physical punishments meeted out in this earth, not eternal punishments.

 

[Dave M]

learning the difference between stumbling in sin and repenting and having conviction and remorse over it, and living a lifestyle of sin not giving it a second thought was one of the biggest eye openers for me in my walk with Christ. If you are growing in Christ I would strongly say that stumbling becomes less and less as we grow, if we are not growing we may very well return to that old sinful lifestyle.

ANother big eye-opener for me was the difference between temptation and sin Just because we are tempted does not mean that we sinned, I was confused about that for a long time.

 

[Dave M]

1. An immoral thought is a sin Matt 5:28.

This is something that has puzzled me, I would debated you on this as well in some regard. What exactly is a thought ?? The evil one can put thoughts into our heads that are no way my thoughts, happens all the time How do I dkonw that they are not my thoughts because they make me sick and I would never speak them out. If something is my thought I will know its mine and not be afraid to speak it.

So if lusting thoughts come in my mind its not a sin if I automaticly run to Jesus for its not your thougth but a attack IMO, it becomes a sin if I dwell on the thought and linger in the thought. there is a huge difference IMO

 

[B-A-C]

Being tempted is not a sin. Even Jesus was tempted, but He didn't sin.

Noticing a woman is pretty or attractive isn't a sin. Holding on to those thoughts and entertaining sexual fantasies... now it becomes a sin.
Thinking about telling a lie, isn't a sin.. until I actually tell the lie. Thinking about stealing something isn't a sin, until I actually steal it.

He who hates his brother is guilty of murder, that's a tough one. But I have found you don't have to hold onto grudges, you don't have to hate.
If there is someone you have a problem with, start praying for them. Seriously... yeah it's hard sometimes, but I guarantee after a while it will
change your heart about them.

That's what the Christian faith is all about. Change, change of heart. Change of behavior. Loving one another.
If you don't believe that Jesus has the power to change you. Do you really believe in Him? Do you really have faith in Jesus?

 

[KingJ]

Exod 12:12; 'For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments—I am the LORD.

Plague to get wicked adults to repent. Not a judgement of children / babies.

2Sam 12:13; Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die.
2Sam 12:14; "However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die." 2Sam 12:18; Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!"

''Child born to you''. This too is not a judgement of the child but God using the child as a punishment on the adult.

1Sam 15:2; "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt.
1Sam 15:3; 'Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'"
Hos 13:16; Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.

This is mass genocide of the enemy of Israel. It is akin to the flood, Sodom and all other Canaanites. 1. Children of the enemy grow up to avenge. Especially the boys. This is why God would always remove all. This is not a judgement on the children and babies. 2. At the time of the flood society at large was corrupt and the children were more disadvantaged from this level of corruption. Think of today, how disadvantaged children are when they grow up with two mothers or fathers. This is why God removed all.

All your scripture quoted is apples and oranges to Num 14:29. The under twenty mentioned took part in a gross sin. They were not 1. Children of the enemy or 2. 'disadvantaged' from being in an evil society. Thus the fact that God spared them, carries weight with what we can expect today in our society.

 

[KingJ]

This is something that has puzzled me, I would debated you on this as well in some regard. What exactly is a thought ?? The evil one can put thoughts into our heads that are no way my thoughts, happens all the time How do I dkonw that they are not my thoughts because they make me sick and I would never speak them out. If something is my thought I will know its mine and not be afraid to speak it.

So if lusting thoughts come in my mind its not a sin if I automaticly run to Jesus for its not your thougth but a attack IMO, it becomes a sin if I dwell on the thought and linger in the thought. there is a huge difference IMO

The evil one can put thoughts in our heads? I don't agree. Scripture? Logical explanation?

What happens is, the evil one advertises evil. Think of watching a film. Your eyes see evil. Your ears hear evil. Your mind then thinks an evil thought. You do that.

God is the only one that can put a thought in our head Act 2:17.