The Case for a Post Trib Rapture

[B-A-C]

The Case for a Post-Tribulation Rapture​

Thesis Statement:​

The rapture of the Church will occur after the Great Tribulation, at the visible return of Jesus Christ, when He gathers His elect with the sound of a trumpet. This view harmonizes the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and John, and maintains a consistent biblical timeline without inserting gaps or multiple second comings.

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1.​

Matthew 24:15–31
Jesus outlines a clear sequence:

• The Abomination of Desolation (v.15) marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
• The elect are still present during this time (v.22–24).
• Jesus warns against secret comings (v.26–27), implying His return will be public and unmistakable.
• Immediately after the tribulation, cosmic signs appear (v.29), and then Jesus returns and gathers His elect with a great trumpet (v.31).

Commentary:
This passage directly contradicts the idea of a secret, pre-tribulation rapture. The elect are clearly present during the tribulation and are gathered after it.

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2.​

2 Thessalonians 2:1–4
Paul warns believers not to be deceived:

• The Day of the Lord and our gathering to Himwill not occur until:
  • The apostasy happens.
  • The man of lawlessness is revealed and sits in the temple.

Commentary:
Paul explicitly states that the rapture cannot happen until these tribulation events unfold. This affirms the post-tribulation timeline.

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3.​

Revelation 20:4–6

• Those who were beheaded for refusing the mark are resurrected and reign with Christ.
• This is called the first resurrection.

Commentary:
If the rapture had already occurred before the tribulation, this could not be the “first” resurrection. This passage places the resurrection of the saints after the tribulation.

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4.​

1 Corinthians 15:51–52

• The dead will be raised and the living changed at the last trumpet.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17

• The Lord descends with a shout and trumpet, and the dead in Christ rise first.

Matthew 24:31

• Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect with a great trumpet.

Commentary:
These trumpet passages describe the same event — the rapture — and it occurs after the tribulation, not before. The “last trumpet” implies a culmination, not a beginning.

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5.​

Revelation 7:3; 9:4

• God seals His servants to protect them from certain judgments.

Commentary:
God does not remove His people from tribulation but protects them through it — just as He did with Noah, Daniel, and Israel in Egypt.

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6.​

Revelation 13:7; 20:4

• The Beast makes war with the saints and overcomes them.
• Many are beheaded for their faith.

Commentary:
This is Satan’s wrath, not God’s. Believers are persecuted by the Beast, not punished by God. Their suffering leads to a better resurrection (Hebrews 11:35).

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7.​

1 Corinthians 3:12–15; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Matthew 25:14–30

• Believers will be judged for their works — some will receive greater rewards, others will suffer loss.
• Faithfulness leads to commendation, while neglect leads to loss of reward.

Commentary:
The resurrection is not just about being raised — it’s about being rewarded. Those who endure tribulation faithfully will receive greater honor.

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Conclusion​

The Post-Tribulation Rapture view maintains a consistent biblical timeline:

1. The Church will face the Great Tribulation.
2. The Antichrist will be revealed and persecute the saints.
3. Jesus will return visibly, after the tribulation.
4. The elect will be gathered at the last trumpet.
5. The faithful will be rewarded, and the wicked judged.

This view honors the plain reading of Scripture, avoids speculative gaps, and affirms the call to endure faithfully until the end.

 

[B-A-C]

Pre-Trib Rapture vs "The second coming".​

Does the Bible Teach Two Separate Events?​

1.​

• The concept comes from 1 Thessalonians 4:17, where believers are “caught up” (Greek: harpazō).
• This event is described in connection with the Lord’s coming, not as a separate event.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17
“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven... and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive... will be caught up together with them... to meet the Lord in the air.”

Commentary:
This passage describes the resurrection and rapture as part of Christ’s descent — not a separate, secret event.

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2.​

Matthew 24:30–31
“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear... and they will see the Son of Man coming... and He will send forth His angels... and they will gather together His elect.”

Commentary:
This is a visible return, after the tribulation (v.29). There is no mention of a prior, secret rapture.

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3.​

2 Thessalonians 2:1–3
“With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him... it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed.”

Commentary:
Paul treats the coming of Christ and the gathering of believers as a single event, which occurs after tribulation events.

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4.​

Revelation 19:11–16
Jesus returns on a white horse, with the armies of heaven, to judge and make war.

Revelation 20:4–6
The first resurrection includes those martyred during the tribulation.

Commentary:
There is no mention of a prior resurrection or rapture before this. The first resurrection happens after the Beast is defeated.

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5.​

There is no passage that clearly says:

• The rapture happens before the tribulation.
• The Second Coming happens after the tribulation.
• These are two distinct events separated by years.

Instead, the consistent pattern is:

• Jesus returns once, visibly.
• The dead in Christ are raised.
• The living are caught up.
• Judgment follows.

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Summary Statement​

The Bible does not explicitly teach two separate events — a Pre-Tribulation Rapture and a later Second Coming. Instead, it consistently presents the return of Christ as a single, visible, climactic event that includes:

• The resurrection of the dead in Christ (1 Thess 4:16; Rev 20:4).
• The transformation and gathering of living believers (1 Thess 4:17; Matt 24:31).
• The defeat of the Beast and judgment of the wicked (Rev 19:20–21).
• The beginning of Christ’s reign (Rev 20:4).

This supports the Post-Tribulation Rapture view, which sees the rapture and Second Coming as one unified event, occurring after the tribulation.

 

[B-A-C]

I invite someone to give a rebuttal here. Perhaps "The Case for a Pre-Trib Rapture".

and see if it stands up Biblically. But I would ask if you do this.. don't use speculative scriptures...
For example..

Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

In the context of this verse... there is no mention of tribulation or rapture. People speculate it's about the tribuaton.. but in context it isn't.

All of the verses I gave above specifically mention the rapture and the tribulation in the context they are used.

 

[Curtis]

Rev 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.
Rev 4:4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.

Here, the Apostle John has a vision of the throne of God, and he sees 24 Elders wearing "white Robes", and they were wearing "crowns of Gold"
Who exactly are these people, and why are they wearing white robes and crowns of gold? Crowns of gold are only given to those who have been judged for their deeds while living in physical bodies. (judgment seat of Christ) White robes are indicative of having "incorruptible" spiritual bodies.
We do not have to guess or theorize who these people are, as they themselves tell us exactly who they are!
Rev 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
Rev 4:11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."

Rev 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.
Rev 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

The twenty-four Elders are representative of the Church ( have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,) the Body of Christ who have been raptured, given incorruptible bodies, judged, rewarded, and given crowns of gold!

They see Jesus take the scroll from the hand of God the Father, which has the seven seals that he (Jesus) will open, starting the tribulation period.

 

[B-A-C]

he twenty-four Elders are representative of the Church ( have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,) the Body of Christ who have been raptured, given incorruptible bodies, judged, rewarded, and given crowns of gold!

It's possible...
But I tend to lean this way...

Symbolism of 12 + 12 = 24​

• 12 tribes of Israel: Represent the faithful of the Old Testament.
• 12 apostles: Represent the foundation of the New Testament church (cf. Ephesians 2:20).
• Together, they form a complete representation of God's people.

​

• Revelation 21:12–14: The New Jerusalem has 12 gates named after the tribes of Israel and 12 foundation stones named after the apostles.
• This reinforces the idea that both groups are part of the eternal kingdom and may be reflected in the 24 elders.

But I will say.. you've given me something to think about.

 

[Curtis]

It's possible...
But I tend to lean this way...

Symbolism of 12 + 12 = 24​

• 12 tribes of Israel: Represent the faithful of the Old Testament.
• 12 apostles: Represent the foundation of the New Testament church (cf. Ephesians 2:20).
• Together, they form a complete representation of God's people.

​

• Revelation 21:12–14: The New Jerusalem has 12 gates named after the tribes of Israel and 12 foundation stones named after the apostles.
• This reinforces the idea that both groups are part of the eternal kingdom and may be reflected in the 24 elders.

But I will say.. you've given me something to think about.

They can’t be Old Testament saints or tribulation martyrs. The elders are in heaven before the tribulation, seated on thrones, wearing their robes and crowns. They are already rewarded. This means that they have already participated in the resurrection. This forbids identifying them as Old Testament saints or tribulation martyrs. Those two classes don’t receive their rewards until they are raised at the second coming.

The timeline of the twenty-four elders absolutely demands a pretribulation rapture. The sequence starts with a summons to heaven which is a type of the rapture summons—“Come up here!” (Rev. 4:1). The twenty-four appear in the throne room, resurrected and rewarded (Rev. 4-5), prior to the opening of the first seal, which releases the antichrist (Rev. 6:1-2). This means that they shall not see the antichrist, or the seventieth week, or the tribulation. This is a pretribulation rapture.

Besides the 24 Elders are made up of every nation, every tongue, every people every tribe on earth. I am sure there many Jews in included in this group of people.

 

[B-A-C]

Those two classes don’t receive their rewards until they are raised at the second coming.

This only applies if you believe the rapture and second coming are two different events.

or the seventieth week

A speculative timing at best. Some of us don't believe the 70 weeks apply to the timing of the tribulation.

Besides the 24 Elders are made up of every nation, every tongue, every people every tribe on earth. I am sure there many Jews in included in this group of people.

A possibility.. but difficult to prove I think.

I take it you believe there will be multiple raptures?

 

[KingJ]

I invite someone to give a rebuttal here. Perhaps "The Case for a Pre-Trib Rapture".

and see if it stands up Biblically. But I would ask if you do this.. don't use speculative scriptures...
For example..

It is so easy to debunk an end of trib 'rapture' and a 'mid trib' rapture. Your selection of scripture that you believe make your case for a 'end or mid trib' rapture is cherry picked and some out of their context. I will reply in detail to your OP when I get a gap. For now, I will just remind you of two key facts given to you many times over the last few years on this site. Most recently in this thread - Rapture event - Poll.

Fact 1 - 'End of trib rapture' theory debunked.

Matt 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Note how the verse clearly says that only the Father knows. Not angels. Not humans. Now ask yourself if the tribulation is seven years Dan 9:24-27, at the end of the sixth day Rev 20:1-6, is it an unknown day and hour? Can angels and humans before the flood not count to 6000 years?

Mixing verses that speak of Jesus's coming at the end of the tribulation with Matt 24:36 is extreme and obvious error.

Fact 2 - 'Mid trib' rapture theory debunked

Scripture is crystal clear in Rom 10:9 that you are saved if you have faith that Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead.

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Yet in the tribulation we know that in order for you to be 'elect and or a tribulation saint', this matters naught if you have the mark of the beast.

Rev 14:9-10 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10;they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

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Please grasp these two borderline 'duh' facts and stop teaching error.

Teaching that the rapture is post-trib incriminates God and mocks the cross. God abandons us with the devil. Faith in Jesus matters naught to God. Christians need to be further tested.

A post trib rapture event goes hand in hand with a works based salvation which you also teach. Further error.

 

[Bill]

I invite someone to give a rebuttal here. Perhaps "The Case for a Pre-Trib Rapture".

and see if it stands up Biblically. But I would ask if you do this.. don't use speculative scriptures...
For example..

Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

In the context of this verse... there is no mention of tribulation or rapture. People speculate it's about the tribuaton.. but in context it isn't.

All of the verses I gave above specifically mention the rapture and the tribulation in the context they are used.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I just have two simple question, at what point do you know that you missed it? What happens immediately after the Rapture that you have posted?

 

[Bill]

It's possible...
But I tend to lean this way...

Symbolism of 12 + 12 = 24​

• 12 tribes of Israel: Represent the faithful of the Old Testament.
• 12 apostles: Represent the foundation of the New Testament church (cf. Ephesians 2:20).
• Together, they form a complete representation of God's people.

​

• Revelation 21:12–14: The New Jerusalem has 12 gates named after the tribes of Israel and 12 foundation stones named after the apostles.
• This reinforces the idea that both groups are part of the eternal kingdom and may be reflected in the 24 elders.

But I will say.. you've given me something to think about.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I do have another question actually and that is this.

For everyone who believes that there is a rapture, my question is it never says that everybody gets to go based on the scripture that everyone uses. Especially with the two people working in the field it says one is taken and one is Left Behind but the question I have even with that one is it doesn't really specify which person is the Christian. And there is another problem that you're not addressing which is based on Revelations we know that there are some Christians that have to go through it, otherwise a lot of it doesn't make sense.

Why would God worry about the planet concerning the use of the mark of the beast if there were no Christians there to take it? Because everybody that's against the scripture is not going to read the scripture in the first place. Let's say all the Christians are off planet, who else is going to read it nobody's going to read it it Islam islamics they're not going to read it it's against their faith to do that and everybody that's anti-christian nobody's going to read it playing simple. So why bother I think that the whole issue about taking the mark of the beast isn't for everybody else, I think it's a warning to the Christians. Not to take the mark of the beast

 

[B-A-C]

you believe make your case for a 'end or mid trib' rapture is cherry picked and some out of their context.

Can you give an example of how they are cherry picked, and "out of context".

 

[KingJ]

Can you give an example of how they are cherry picked, and "out of context".

Your second post here starts with the question ''Does the Bible Teach Two Separate Events?''. You then combine scripture that speaks to two separate events. There is scripture that speaks to a great second coming at the end of the tribulation and then there is scripture speaking to a rapture event. You do not see the error as these scriptures are slightly related.

I will not have much luck persuading you until you are intellectually honest and accept that the two 'duh' points raised in post # 8.

Imagine thinking the ''great second coming'' which is at the end of the sixth day (6k years), after exactly seven years of tribulation is a day and hour that only....God the Father knows.

To accept your ridiculous belief from cherry picking requires me to believe that every single angel and human in heaven cannot count to 6000 years . Which is it? Can nobody in heaven count or is there a separate rapture event?

Matt 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

[B-A-C]

To accept your ridiculous belief from cherry picking requires me to believe that every single angel and human in heaven cannot count to 6000 years . Which is it? Can nobody in heaven count or is there a separate rapture event?

Matt 24:36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Sorry, I don't understand what 6,000 years has to do with any of this.

Now Jesus said Matt 24:36 about 2,000 years ago. To me if a verse specific says the "word "tribulation" in it, it's not cherry picked,
it's pertinent to the discussion. (Would you rather I picked verses that don't say "tribulation" to discuss pre and post "tribulation?

Now I believe only Father knew 2,000 years ago, and maybe only the Father know now. But the question is, will we know when it starts?

Maybe we are already in it. When did it start? 2 years ago? 6 months ago? yesterday? Now maybe it hasn't started yet. I'm OK with that.
It's doesn't matter for this discussion.

2Thess 2
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

On the word "rapture":The English word "rapture" comes from the Latin Vulgate's use of rapiemur (from rapio - "to seize, snatch away") in 1 Thessalonians 4:17: "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up [rapiemur] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

The Greek word Paul actually used is ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagēsometha) - "we will be caught up/snatched away." So yes, "rapture" is simply the Latin-derived term for what the Greek describes as being "caught up" or "snatched away."

On 2 Thessalonians 2:1:The phrase "our gathering together to Him" (ἐπισυναγωγῆς - episynagōgēs) is indeed referring to the same event. Paul is explicitly connecting:

• "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" AND
• "our gathering together to Him"

This is the event he described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. So verse 1 establishes the topic: the rapture/catching up.

Then verse 3 is crucial:Paul says "it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed."

What's the antecedent of "it"? The subject from verse 1: our gathering together to Him. Paul is explicitly telling them that their gathering together to Christ (the rapture) will NOT happen until after the apostasy and the revelation of the Antichrist.

This is a direct contradiction to pre-trib rapture theology, which places the rapture before these events.

Bottom line: We will NOT be gathered together to Him, until all these things happen first.

 

[B-A-C]

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

This is the passage with the "caught up" (ἁρπαγησόμεθα) language that became "rapture" in Latin.

This gets right to the heart of whether "gathering" language consistently refers to the same event or different events.

Matthew 13:30, 39-43 (Parable of the Tares):The reapers (angels) will "gather up [συλλέξατε - syllexate] first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."

Verse 41-42: "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out [συλλέξουσιν - syllexousin] of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire."

Matthew 24:31:"And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together [ἐπισυνάξουσιν - episynaxousin] His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

Mark 13:27:Same wording - "gather together" [ἐπισυνάξουσιν] the elect.

Here's what's striking:

1. Different Greek words are used for different gatherings, but they all involve angels doing the gathering at Christ's visible coming
2. The Matthew 13 gathering explicitly happens AFTER the tribulation of the age - the tares and wheat grow together until the harvest (end of the age)
3. The Matthew 24/Mark 13 gathering explicitly follows "immediately after the tribulation" (Matt 24:29-31)
4. 2 Thessalonians 2:1 uses ἐπισυναγωγῆς (episynagōgēs) - from the same root as the Matthew 24:31 gathering word

Can these be construed as something else?

Pre-trib theology tries to make them different events, but the burden is on them to explain:

• Why would there be TWO separate "gatherings" of believers by angels?
• Why does Matthew 24:31's gathering come "immediately after the tribulation" if believers were already raptured before it?
• Why would Paul use gathering language in 2 Thess 2:1 that connects to post-tribulation gathering language?

The majority verses point to ONE gathering of the elect, post-tribulation.

 

[Bill]

I was wondering if you guys are having a boxing match. Rock'em sock'em robots

 

[KingJ]

I was wondering if you guys are having a boxing match. Rock'em sock'em robots

My first post here was a bit of a box wasn't it . I tried to edit it a bit but time expired.

 

[KingJ]

Sorry, I don't understand what 6,000 years has to do with any of this.

You don't agree that God has given us seven days. The seventh being a thousand years of peace (millennium) and the sixth day ending with a seven year tribulation that ushers in the seventh day?

I need you to clarify this before I respond further.

 

[B-A-C]

You don't agree that God has given us seven days. The seventh being a thousand years of peace (millennium) and the sixth day ending with a seven year tribulation that ushers in the seventh day?

No. I'm not saying it isn't possible. But I think that time line is VERY unlikely,

 

[KingJ]

No. I'm not saying it isn't possible. But I think that time line is VERY unlikely,

I think the time line is exact. Scripture is crystal clear on multiple occasions that the tribulation is exactly seven years and crystal clear that the millennium is the seventh day and that it is a literal thousand years of peace.

This is why the demons that Jesus cast into swine knew He came to them before 'their time'.

The tribulation, the end of the sixth day, these are not unknown dates. The rapture is the unknown day and hour.

 

[Bill]

You don't agree that God has given us seven days. The seventh being a thousand years of peace (millennium) and the sixth day ending with a seven year tribulation that ushers in the seventh day?

I need you to clarify this before I respond further.

I have never agreed with the whole concept that everybody is so stuck on, that only one day equals a thousand years.

That example that the profit gives is not a slam dunk cut and Rock fact. The way that I take it is that the profit was trying to explain what it's like not saying what it is there's a difference. The word " LIKE " does not mean it " IS " A Thousand Years.

And every scripture that I have read reading that profits words in each case he says it is LIKE , as an example.

I cannot see an eternal God creating something in such a short time. And in every example that God has ever shown in Scripture, he takes his own sweet time to do it. Even now when you look at what Jesus says about the end. It sounds like the end is intimate. Meaning that it's going to happen now back 2,000 years ago. And if you look at the lives of the Christians back 2,000 years ago they all thought that the end of the world was going to happen in their lifetime.

So when everybody is so much into the numbers game I just can't get into it. It's like all these people trying to figure out Revelations when they don't even know what they're talking about.

There are a lot of things that are being overlooked when it comes to understanding Revelations. The one Central thing that is the most important thing. Is that Jerusalem is the center of it all. That means that it is the ground zero for where the Horseman ride out of. So when Ezekiel talks about where the Horseman are coming from that the White Horse goes to the West, and the directions of the other horses one going north one going south. You have to understand that the center point of all of it is Jerusalem.