(note: Sometimes I use capitals. I'm not yelling, it's just for emphasis.)
Fellowservant said:
Be come where? to meet them? Also Christ does a little prophesying here as well..preterist are reading a literal and spiritual book, and taking to much of these prophecies literal.
Hmm, so then Christ, when speaking to his disciples in a simple and straightforward manner, was speaking in a convoluted, spiritual manner. There is nothing that suggests that Christ was speaking figuratively, or symbolically.
He made simple, specific predictions. Why did he mean something different than what he said for no apparent reason?
However, when the book of Revelation (a book presented in a vision of prophecy) speaks of a thousand year reign along with Micheal physically binding a giant dragon, along with a giant city floating out of heaven and landing on the earth, it MUST be physical and literal. Perhaps it is not me who has mistaken spiritual and physical (or literal and symbolic/figurative) language.
preterist are reading a literal and spiritual book, and taking to much of these prophecies literal.
Are spiritual things not literal, or even, not real? Why not give some evidence that Christ was not speaking plainly to his disciples?
Context?.. In the book of Psalms, did King David really have his hands and his feet pierced? Did they really cast lots for his garments? Sometimes prophecy needs to be taken out of context. And that is a fact.
What?!
Context (according to merriam webster)
1 : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs
So,
sometimes, in order to understand prophecy, we must disregard that which may give up insight into its meaning. That's not a fact, but nonsense. The ONLY way to discern prophecy is through SCRIPTURE: it's CONTEXT with reference to SCRIPTURE! CONTEXT determins whether a passage is literal or figurative or symbolic and spiritual or physical, NOT the reader's preconceived understanding.
If you take it out of its context, you are simply making stuff up. Why not give the Word of God, written, more credibility than personal theology?
Likely fulfilled on the day of Pentecost...(coming of the kingdom with power) there i is a spiritual kingdom and a literal kingdom of Christ. One is in us now, Christ in you the HOPE of GLORY (ie) the kingdom of God in you... the other is when Jesus Christ and the saint's will rule the WORLD with a ROD of IRON...and that is yet to come.
Are you saying that there isn't really a spiritual kingdom of God, that it's just some kind of metaphor? Provide scriptural proof that there are two kingdoms of God, I've only heard of one: THE kingdom of God.
Matthew 16
24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
This is not a description of pentecost, but of Christ's parousia.
Also dont forget the blessed HOPE of the believer Tit 2:13, Where is your resurrected body, if Christ has returned to rule the WORLD with a rod of iron?
Well let's look to 1 Corinthians 15 for an excellent explaination.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
So, if spiritual things are not "literal", then the resurrection is not "literal". However, the resurrection is a literal resurrection, but a spiritual one, the resurrection of the spirit in Christ.
What generation? the one hes talking about, the Hearafter one...this has not happened yet. Hearafter means the future, how long? only God knows that answer.
Did you happen to read the CONTEXT of that verse before posting? I didn't find the word "hereafter" applied to generation in that text. He did say "this generation", which, in the most plain and simple terms, would refer to "this generation", or the generation of people that were listening to him as he spoke those words.
So Pilate and the rest SEEN him, but we can't?
Ah, here's a good question. I'd like to make a note here about interpretation of Christ's prophecies.
1. We know that, at the time it was spoken, Christ was 100% correct in everything he said. Therefore, we know that "the chief priests, and elders, and all the council" or Ciaphas, the high priest, DID see Christ coming on the clouds in glory in power. Do you believe Christ was wrong?
2. Therefore, because of the question you raise (they saw him, why can't we?) and an apparent discrepency, we must take to the scriptures to find out what these words meant to the ORIGINAL AUDIENCE, something called "audience relevance".
Let's look at the references to prophetic clouds in the Old Testament (he's done it before). It was a symbol of God coming upon nations or people in judgement.
Look at Isaiah 19:1, Psalm 18:7-15, and Micah 1:3-4. What significance did clouds have to the Jews (especially the high priest and council, who were well familiar with the Old Testament writings).
They meant JUDGEMENT! Not a physical visit from above. It makes sense, also in light of Matthew 23 and Christ's curse on that generation.
Remember what Peter said 2Pe 3:8, one day with the lord is as a thousand years. And why did he say it?
Is it because time has no meaning to him, because he has no conception of a "generation" or "For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry"? This statement is not God's excuse for a two millennia non-fulfillment, but a promise of faithfulness.
because God is trying to save as many of us as possible. I wouldn't be saved right now if that were not true. And this goes for all the saints who are living today.
That would be accurate if Christ's parousia was an end of the physical world, but it isn't. The church of that time was anticipating the acceptance of Christ by all those Jews and Gentiles before the judgement on the apostate Jewish state. Men are still being saved because the gates of Jerusalem will never close.
2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
How do men count slackness? Is forty years a long time? Yes, it seems like a very long time to a man, especially one under persecution from Jewish and Roman authorities.
Thank goodness that Christ was right, that some would live to see the fulfillment of their hope and that he would not leave them as a false prophet.
Don't take the blessed hope away from the saints..if you dont want to offend
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Why claim that Christ has deferred the hope in which all Christians rely. I've not taken the blessed hope, but proclaimed its FULFILLMENT!
Futurist theology has robbed Christians of the hope of Christ by saying that he has not fulfilled his promise, leaving many only with an unfulfilled promise and unfulfilled prophecy.
It is true...
Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. - Proverbs 13:12
Soldier of God,
I can't comment on this article much, because I can't really figure out what it's talking about. I'm speaking of scripture, not ancient Jewish apocrypha!
We noted that the idea that Bible "prophecy" is "past," as declared by uninspired men, is called "Preterism,"
Not really, not all prophecy is past. The Kingdom of God dwells forever on the earth. Many prophecies are permenent, such as the presence of Christ with his church.
This is absolutely WRONG. Let's look at the definition of "divination", according to webster.
1 : the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers
Nothing preterist here, we only look to the scriptures for our theology. There's no hidden knowledge there.
2 : unusual insight : intuitive perception
The scriptures are simple. It's not I who denies the plain words of Christ and the apostles.
Preterism is not any kind of divination, as if Christ never intended his words to be understood.
This is where ya sorta lose me. I have only really studied scripture (and a little credible history) with reference to preterism.
This article doesn't do anything to address preterism itself. It seems to be only a page of namecalling, misrepresentation, and guilt by association. Could you point out what you were trying to say by posting this article?
When did the good news become old news?
It will always be good news, and never old. Let me ask you, hypothetically, after Christ comes, will it be old news?
Only those watching and waiting for His return, have any hope in this
world!
Every preterist (every single one) I've met expresses more hope in Christ's fulfilled Parousia than they could ever have in perpetually delayed prophecy and a worldview of death.
What gives futurism hope? escape from a dying world.
What gives preterists hope? Faith in Christ that his kingdom will ever be established upon the earth in healing and hope for all, and that sin and death are defeated, once and for all time.
Proverbs 13:12 - "Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life."
Thanks for responding, everyone. I'm glad to be able to reason among Christians in a friendly environment. I hope we all can grow with wisdom, logic and open minds and hearts.
Gosh, I had no idea it would turn into such a discussion. Praise God, that we have this opportunity to learn from the scriptures and from one another.
God bless,
Bill
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