The false 70ad theory

[B-A-C]

Problems with 70ad.

Matt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

The temple was destroyed in 70ad. Not 3 1/2 years after 70ad. So there is no way the abomination of desolation happened here for 3 1/2 years.

Daniel says this will be at least 3 1/2 years when this happens. ( 1,290 days )

Dan 11:31; "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The disciples asked Jesus this question...

Matt 24:3; As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

When is the end, and when are you coming back? Another problem is that Jesus didn't come back in 70ad. We are still waiting for Him.

Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Yet another problem is that the gospel had not been preached "to the whole world" at that time, so the end could not come. Indeed there are still parts of the world today who have never heard the gospel.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

The Bible says this will be the greatest tribulation of all time. Since the beginning of the world, and there will never be a worse tribulation.
Well the seige of Jerusalem was bad, but the entire population of Jeruslaem is estimated to be around 70,000 at that time.

In world war II over 7 million Jews were killed. Not only that, the world wars didn't affect only Jerusalem, they affected countries all over the world.
Millions of people were killed. These were much worse times than one single city with a relatively small population being destroyed.

Perhaps the biggest problem with the 70ad tribulation theory is...

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

There is no record of a rapture in 70ad. Surely this would have been a note worthy event that would have been recorded somewhere. Even by secular historians.
There is also no record of temple desecration anywhere is any Jewish history records of the seige of 70ad. Yes, it was destroyed, but there is no record of it
being used for Pagan sacrifices during this time.

Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Again, no rapture in 70ad. No one left standing alone because the angels gathered up the elect.
These verses are sometimes used to support the 70ad theory.

Matt 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
Matt 24:2; And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."
Mark 13:2; And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

Jesus said not one stone would be left standing. ... and yet here we are 2,000 years later and an entire wall is left standing. The "western wall" or "Wailing wall".
So Jesus must have been talking about something else.

Also if Jesus did come back...

Rev 20:2; And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

When was Satan imprisoned for a thousand years? Is he still inprisoned, or has he been destroyed?
If this is true, why are there still false/satanic religions in the world today?

When Jesus comes back, it won't be some secret clandestine meeting. The whole world will see it, the whole world will know it.

Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Rev 1:7; BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

So there you have it. No abomination of desolation. Not the worst tribulation of all time. Jesus didn't secretly return. Satan isn't imprisoned yet. The gospel hasn't been preached to the whole world yet.
"Every" stone of temple wasn't thrown down off of one another. There are simply too many things that disagree with the Bible here.

 

[B-A-C]

Another problem with this theory...

Psa 2:9; 'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
Rev 2:27; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;
Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 19:15; From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

When Jesus returns, He will rule with a rod of iron. No more nonsense, no more false religions. .. but of course Jesus hasn't returned yet, so there are still plenty of false religions and false prophets in the world today.

 

[B-A-C]

When Jesus was resurrected, He was resurrected in the flesh.

Luke 24:38; And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:40; And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
Luke 24:41; While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?"
Luke 24:42; They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish;
Luke 24:43; and He took it and ate it before them.

He had bones, and He has flesh. He even ate a fish.

Acts 1:9; And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10; And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
Acts 1:11; They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

When Jesus returns, it won't just be some ethereal Spirit. He will be real, tangible, in the flesh. It won't be just some secret spiritual thing that only Christians will be aware of and the world will remain ignorant of.

Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Rev 1:7; BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

Even the unbelievers will see Him. "Every" eye will see Him when He returns. It will like lightning flashing across the sky.

 

[Hekuran]

Hello @B-A-C
Ive not been able to untangle this prophecy to my satisfaction. I have found it helpful, though, to think about literary style. See Isaiah's prophecy of the destuction of Edom (600BC) in chapter 34. Its a terrifying description. Smoke of their destruction rises for ever, the sky is rolled up lime a scroll etc. Obviously, if you go to the land today, the smoke of the battle is not still rising. But Edom was certainly viciously destroyed by the Babylonians.

I think Jesus was speaking in the same prophetic style as Isaiah.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Problems with 70ad.

Matt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

The temple was destroyed in 70ad. Not 3 1/2 years after 70ad. So there is no way the abomination of desolation happened here for 3 1/2 years.

Daniel says this will be at least 3 1/2 years when this happens. ( 1,290 days )

Check out Luke 21:20, brother.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that desolation is near."

Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse didn't leave it to readers to understand, ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION is specified as the siege of Jerusalem - in 70AD. And then in Luke 21:24, it was foretold that there will be captivity and slaughter, and Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles - until the "times of Gentiles are fulfilled".

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 21:20; "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Luke 21:21; "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
Luke 21:22; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
Luke 21:23; "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
Luke 21:24; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Luke 21:25; "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
Luke 21:26; men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luke 21:27; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28; "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Could verse 20 here be talking about 70ad? The thing is, Jerusalem has been in many wars over the centuries. Not just 70ad. During the crusades at least 7 large wars were fought in Jerusalem.
You could even say the Battle for Jerusalem was in 1947-1948.

Timeline of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the History of Jerusalem; a city that had been fought over sixteen times in its history. During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.

We could pick any of the wars in Jerusalem after Jesus said this. 70ad was just another battle in a long strong of battles. Ironically Jerusalem means "new Peace".
Melchezidek was the King of Salem or King of "Peace". This is thought to be pre-"Jeru"salem. There are very few (if any) cities that have had less peace than Jerusalem over the centuries.

But it says here in Luke 20... verse 25, there will be dismay among the nations. Most nations of the world didn't know or care about Jerusalem in 70ad.
Verse 26 says there will be an expectation of things coming upon the world. Not just Jerusalem, or even just Israel, but the entire world.
Verse 27 says Jesus will come back fairly quickly after all this happens. It's almost 2,000 years since 70ad. Jesus hasn't come back in a cloud yet.

Now this will be a battle of battles.
Rev 14:20; And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses' bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 24 and Luke 21 have been brought up here, we might as well toss Mark 13 in here was well

Mark 13:14 "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Mark 13:15 "The one who is on the housetop must not go down, or go in to get anything out of his house;
Mark 13:16 and the one who is in the field must not turn back to get his coat.
Mark 13:17 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Mark 13:18 "But pray that it may not happen in the winter.
Mark 13:19 "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20 "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
Mark 13:21 "And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him;
Mark 13:22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:23 "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.
Mar 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

Mark 13:19; is very similar to Matt 24:21; - This is will be the greatest tribulation the earth has ever faced. Not just Jerusalem, the entire earth.
Also at this time, Jesus will return. Not thousands of years later. The rapture will happen in verse 27 above. Jesus didn't return, the rapture hasn't happened yet.

We have to decide who the "elect" here are. Verses 20 and 27 above talk about the "elect". Note that the elect are the only ones getting raptured in verse 27.
If you're not an elect, you're not going to be raptured. ( see Matt 24:31 also ) There are some who say that the "elect" are just the Jews. Some go even further and
say just the just the Jews in Jerusalem. Well, if that's true, then nobody else in the rest of the world will be raptured. Because only the elect are raptured.
But whether it's all the saints in the entire world, or just the Jews in Jerusalem it doesn't matter that much for this conversation, because neither happened in 70ad.

 

[B-A-C]

When we read Matt 24:21 and Mark 13:19; Notice the language here.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.

It says here... "the beginning of 'the world'". ... "the beginning of "the creation". It's talking about the entire world here. Not just Jerusalem.
Most scholars tie these verses to the plagues in Revelation. A few examples would be...

Rev 8:7; The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

Rev 8:12; The fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.
Rev 8:13; Then I looked, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven, saying with a loud voice, "Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!"

Rev 9:15; And the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released, so that they would kill a third of mankind.
Rev 9:16; The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

A third of the entire Earth will be burned!! Not just Jerusalem. Jerusalem is just a tiny speck on the Earth, not even 1/1000th of the Earth. Rev 8:13; doesn't say woe to those in Jerusalem, it says woe to those on the Earth... the entire Earth.
Rev 9:15 says a third of mankind will be killed here. A third of the entire population of Earth, not just a third of Jerusalem. A third of the 70,000 people in Jerusalem in 70ad would be roughly 23,000 people or so.
A third of mankind today would be over 2 and a half billion. Which do you think is a greater tribulation? Which do you think qualifies as the greatest tribulation of all time? ( Matt 24:21; and Mark 13:19; )
There are several more verses I could pick out of Revelation, but hopefully these are enough to show.. it isn't just talking about Jerusalem here.

 

[Br. Bear]

@B-A-C

Greetings and thanks for bring this up, Brother


Bless you ....><>

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Many claim the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus has not been set up yet, and another Temple needs to be rebuilt in the future in Jerusalem to fulfill this prophecy in the future. This doctrine is false.

Jesus’ words below confirm both He, and the apostles, were speaking of the Temple and buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes."

The words of God confirm this truth.....

Mark 13:1-413 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

So Jesus was telling them about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes."

Notice in Mark's account above there is only one question asked about when shall these buildings be destroyed, and what sign would there be prior to this event, concerning the abomination of desolation.

But in Matthew's account pay attention to the question and the prophecy, as 2 separate questions are asked of Jesus.

Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So in Matthews account not only was Jesus asked about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes", but also about the signs of Christ’s second coming and also about the end of the world.

Now to Luke's account…..

Luke 21:5-7 5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Again notice they are speaking of the Temple and buildings they are looking at "with their own eyes." And so Jesus tells them "the signs" given before the temple is destroyed….

Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” ( This is the abomination of desolation event spoken of in Daniel)

This event concerning the destruction of the city of Jerusalem that Jesus and the apostles were looking at "with their own eyes "is also confirmed by Jesus in ....

Luke 19:41-44 “And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it. Saying, If thou hast known, even thou, at least in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.”

So the common mistake here is to think that the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of the Temple is yet future, and has anything to do with the second coming of Christ and the end of the world almost 2 thousand years later. But when you understand the questions asked of Jesus was in two parts, then you will see these 2 events are separate from one another and are many, many years apart.

And it is also very clear in all accounts given in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that Jesus and the apostles were talking about the Temple and surrounding buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes".

There is no need for a future Temple to be built to fulfill this prophecy, as it has already been fulfilled in 70 a.d. when the Roman army surrounded, and then destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. Both the words of Jesus and history prove this to be true. With the abomination of desolation events already being fulfilled, we can now focus on the events concerning Christ's second coming, and on the signs concerning the end of this world.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace and God bless

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

When you can come to understand that the question asked of Jesus by the apostles was concerning 2 separate events, then perhaps you will come to understand that there are actually 2 separate tribulation periods mentioned in scripture, to the Jew first, then secondly to the Nations.

Many speak of the tribulation to come, and there is in fact a Great Tribulation to come upon the entire world by way of God’s wrath being poured out on the inhabitants of the world. But many do not understand that there are actually 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture. In Romans 2:9 we read; "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile."

In this we see the mention of 2 different tribulation periods determined, with the first one which pertained to the Jews, and the last one, which is to be upon all the Nations of the entire Gentile world.

This first tribulation to the Jews was announced to begin by Jesus right after the abomination of desolation and destruction of the Temple mount in Jerusalem occurred in 70 ad. (Luke 21:20-24) This is referred to in scripture as the tribulation of “those days” which was determined to run “many days” (Daniel 11:33) even all the way to "the fullness of the Gentiles", which I believe is marked by the 6th seal events.

Then at the point of the 6th seal being loosed, this would begin the time of trouble such as the world has never seen, (Daniel 12:1); or the wrath of the Lamb/God beginning to be poured out on the Gentile Nations. (Rev. 6:17)

Many confuse these 2 separate events as one single short tribulation event, but a careful study of scripture will show these 2 events are indeed shown as separate in time.

Also I would like to add there is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation, that is just the doctrines of men, as a 7 year tribulation is not mentioned anywhere in scripture, neither is a "pre-tribulation rapture."

So in a nut shell you have the begin point of the tribulation of “those days” (days of vengeance and wrath upon the Jews) starting at 70 ad. as Jesus said and then running-------------->>>all the way to “after the tribulations of those days” confirmed by the 6th seal signs in scripture (sun, moon, stars) and then the beginning of God’s wrath being poured out on the entire Gentile world, or a time of trouble such as the world has never seen. All these things can be confirmed by a careful study of scripture.

The first tribulation period to the Jews was announced by Jesus and would start right after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. Luke confirms the start point in Luke 21:20-22“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”

Also in John 12:31 Jesus said; "Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the prince of this world be cast out." This event would take place after Christ was crucified, as seen with the man child Jesus being caught to God in Revelation 12:5. Also at this point in time the red Dragon, or the Devil would persecute the woman (spiritual Israel) after he was cast down unto the earth as seen in Revelation 12:13.

Many try to place all these events future forward concerning the last days, but these events were set into motion long ago with the judgment announced by Jesus. The end of this first tribulation period for the Jews is shown in Matthew 24:29 with the words "after the tribulation of those days." If you notice in Matthew 24:29 there is a pause after verse 28. Then Jesus says; "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." =(6th seal sign)

Compare to Mark 13:24 where we see the same pause in the verse, and notice the description. Mark 13:24;"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

This sounds just like what the Matthew account has said; but it is the testimony in Luke that shall confirm the end point of this first tribulation period for the Jews, referring to “after those days.”

In Luke 21:25 we see the same pause in the verse, and the same signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars. But if you will notice the verse before it we are shown when this first tribulation of those days would end, and then the signs in the heavens would begin. Luke 21:24;"And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

This prophecy in Luke 21:24 was shown in Daniel 11:33 “And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.”

Notice “many days” does not suggest a short 3 and a half year, 42 month, or 7 year tribulation period for the Jews. History also confirms this, the Jews have been scattered to the nations and have suffered persecution ever since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. When you are given understanding you will come to conclude that the time of 42 months is symbolic of time when you put all the pieces of the mystery together comparing all scriptures on this matter.

This fullness of time of the Gentiles is the key to putting this time frame in its proper order of events. In Revelation 11:2 we see this time period mentioned to John. Revelation 11:2;"But the court that is without the Temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

I believe what throws most people off in this verse is the mention of 42 months, and discerning that time to be a literal 3 and half years. But this time, like most of the symbolisms in book of Revelation should not be taken at face value, but is rather spiritually discerned.

To prove this point, in scripture we see the millennium or thousand year reign of Christ is shown as "a season and a time" in Daniel 7:12. So if "a season and a time" is shown as "a thousand years", then a time, times and half a time would suggest an even longer period of time; not a short period of time like a short 42 month period. Scriptures also confirm this is cannot be the case as shown in Daniel 12:11-13.


I believe the 6th seal signs confirms the fullness of the Gentile age, but also begins the Great tribulation and wrath of the Lamb upon the entire world, or the time of God’s wrath and the day of vengeance as written. Isaiah 63:4 “For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.”

The start time of the Gentiles ingathering period began at Pentecost (7x7 days) right after Christ was crucified, and with the start of the New Covenant period to all Nations. This start of the Gentile period is shown in the law as the "new meat offering" after the 7x7 days is complete. This treading down of the holy city (God’s people also shown as the “holy city”) also started long ago in 70 a.d., and has been ongoing ever since, and will continue till the time of the end.

This time of the Gentiles was also symbolized by a 42 month period, but it is only a sign of time. This sign of time is also shown to us in Matthew 1:17 with the 3 separate 14 generations periods, or 42 total generations leading up to the birth of Jesus. ( the law and prophets prophesied during these 42 generations)

This sign of time of 42 months can also be symbolically shown like the 7 priests first circling Jericho for 6 days, or 7x6=42. During these 42 generations leading up to Jesus’ birth the law and prophets prophesied as Jesus said in Matthew 11:13 Just as God’s 2 witnesses (Word and Spirit) were also forecast to prophesy for 42 months in all his saints Revelation 11:3. Keep in mind the Lord also refers to his saints as the “holy city” and as “Jerusalem” in scripture.

Paul also spoke of this fullness of time for the Gentiles here in Romans 11:25;“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:26;“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

This removal of blindness and ungodliness from Jacob "after the tribulation of those days" is confirmed here in Jeremiah 31:33“But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

This is the point in time of deliverance for God’s saints from the time of trouble that comes after ‘those days” is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Notice, the first “days of vengeance” Jesus proclaimed upon the Jews, starting with the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad; is not the same time as is shown in Daniel 12:1-2 because the Jews were not delivered from that period of persecution, which scripture and history confirms lasted “many days” as is written. But this time of persecution is symbolically shown as, time, times and a half, or symbolically 42
months, or 1260 days.

But the “time of trouble” shown in Daniel 12:1-2 is speaking of a time of deliverance for God’s people and also shows the resurrection of the dead in Christ, which is after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

So this we know by scripture, and also by history, that these 2 separate tribulation events cannot be the same single event.


Prove all things by the words of God. Peace and God bless

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Could verse 20 here be talking about 70ad? The thing is, Jerusalem has been in many wars over the centuries. Not just 70ad. During the crusades at least 7 large wars were fought in Jerusalem.
You could even say the Battle for Jerusalem was in 1947-1948.

70AD was the only one closest to the timing when Yeshua gave this prophesy in the Olivet Discourse. After that, Jerusalem has been "trampled" by the Gentiles, including the Crusade. Jews have never had control over the whole Jerusalem, today half of it is still run by the Palestines, and pushing a "two state solution" is one of the UN's top priority.

In fact, there was a brief window of opputunity when the Roman armies were pushed out by the rebels, they retreated and surrounded Jerusalem, and yet at the same time they were waiting for reinforcement, until the reinforcement arrived, they were not able to launch an attack. Christians recognized this as the fulfillment of Luke 21:20, they followed Yeshua's instruction and ran to the mountains, and got to survive.

And by the way, 70AD was prophesied also in the OT such as Isaiah 29:1-8, the disciples knew what Yeshua was talking about. Their mistake though, is that they thought 70AD would be the "end of the world" when Yeshua will return.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

We could pick any of the wars in Jerusalem after Jesus said this. 70ad was just another battle in a long strong of battles. Ironically Jerusalem means "new Peace".
Melchezidek was the King of Salem or King of "Peace". This is thought to be pre-"Jeru"salem. There are very few (if any) cities that have had less peace than Jerusalem over the centuries.

But it says here in Luke 20... verse 25, there will be dismay among the nations. Most nations of the world didn't know or care about Jerusalem in 70ad.
Verse 26 says there will be an expectation of things coming upon the world. Not just Jerusalem, or even just Israel, but the entire world.
Verse 27 says Jesus will come back fairly quickly after all this happens. It's almost 2,000 years since 70ad. Jesus hasn't come back in a cloud yet.

From Luke 20:25 and onward, it was talking about the real end time tribulation when "the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled". There was a subtle shift there. Keep in mind that the discipes asked two questions in Matt. 3, "when will these things be (destruction of the temple leaving not one stone upon another)", and "what are the signs of your coming?" They thought those were one question, based on Zech. 14:1-9 that Yeshua will descend on Mount Olives, but obsiously that's not the case, 'cause "the times of the Gentiles" are not fulfilled yet.

 

[B-A-C]

Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The "original" Abomination of Desolation is Chronicled in Jewish history in several different archives. Antiochus Epiphanes ( III or IV depending which archive you read ) profaned
the temple by sacrificing swine on the altar for several years ( approximately 3 1/2 years ). This will happen again at some point, but it did not happen in 70ad in any sense.

It will happen in close proximity to the second coming.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

It was all the abominations the people and priests had done that brought on the desolations, they polluted the sanctuary, where God was supposed to dwell.

Zephaniah 3​

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King James Version​

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3 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
2 She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the Lord; she drew not near to her God.
3 Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.”

Ezekiel 5:11
Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord God; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.

Ezekiel 8:6
He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

Ezekiel 23:38
Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

Ezekiel 23:39
For when they had slain their children to their idols, then they came the same day into my sanctuary to profane it; and, lo, thus have they done in the midst of mine house.

Ezekiel 44:7
In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Here in the last days, the temple people need to be concerned about is the Temple of their body, which is also made for God to dwell in.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17​

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King James Version​

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16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying.

 

[B-A-C]

Zephaniah has very little to do with the Abomination of Desolation. In fact the words "Abomination of Desolation" don't exist in that book at all.
Daniel 11 and Daniel 12 are where this does exist. This is the reference Jesus was using in Matt 24:15;

Daniel makes it clear these aren't Jews doing this, it is an external force. Another king ( non-Jewish ).

Dan 11:31; "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Matt 24 doesn't mention Zephaniah, it mentions Daniel. People try to twist parts of scripture together that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Zephaniah has very little to do with the Abomination of Desolation. In fact the words "Abomination of Desolation" don't exist in that book at all.
Daniel 11 and Daniel 12 are where this does exist. This is the reference Jesus was using in Matt 24:15;

Daniel makes it clear these aren't Jews doing this, it is an external force. Another king ( non-Jewish ).

Dan 11:31; "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Matt 24 doesn't mention Zephaniah, it mentions Daniel. People try to twist parts of scripture together that have nothing to do with each other.

The abomination of desolation being “set up” speaks of the destruction of the Temple being “fulfilled”; which was fulfilled in 70 ad.

The reason God had it destroyed is because of all the abominations of the people and the priesthood as the scriptures also confirm.

Jesus announced the coming desolation of the house and why…

Matthew 23:13-38

King James Version

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13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying.

In the end, it’s gonna be our body temples that Satan seeks to defile through genetic engineering and/or chip implants to create “image of the beast”, he’ll be given the power to do so as written in Rev. 13:15. The mRNA vaccine is just a trial run. There ain’t gonna be any legitimate third temple as most Christians think.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

In the end, it’s gonna be our body temples that Satan seeks to defile through genetic engineering and/or chip implants to create “image of the beast”, he’ll be given the power to do so as written in Rev. 13:15. The mRNA vaccine is just a trial run. There ain’t gonna be any legitimate third temple as most Christians think.

That’s nonsense. The mark of the man/beast is sin.

It is written in Job 7:20 “I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?”

Job 10:14 “If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity."

Psalm 130:3 If thou, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?

And it is written in Jeremiah 2:22"For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me,saith the Lord.”

Jesus told us nothing on the outside of man that enters into a man can defile a man, because it cannot enter into the heart. So a tattoo or microchip cannot defile a man because it does not enter into the heart/mind/spirit.

Jesus tells us what defiles the temple of our bodies…..

Mark 7:14-23

King James Version

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14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

That’s nonsense. The mark of the man/beast is sin.

When did I ever mentioned the mark in my original post? I was talking about the IMAGE of the beast, what is your mind automatically shifted to the mark? Tell you what, the image will be implemented FIRST, whatever the mark is, it's just a certificate or a badge of what's already been done.

Plus, anything Satan does is a counterfeit of God's original design. What was God's original design? The answer is in the Shema prayer in Deut. 6:8 - “you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes." This is the only right angle to dive in when it comes to the analysis of the mark. Any theory without mentioning Deut. 6:8 is a non-sense conspiracy theory.