The gift of free will.

[*Lavender]

The gift of free will

Theres a lot of scripture on the foundation of the world and before the foundation of the world.

Through seeking this out, did God give us the gift of freewill. Or did He choose His own people regardless of free will?


I personally believe that God gave the gift of freewill.
For He forknew the elect, and surely knew who would respond to Him.

That is because God knows the beginning to the end and knows us all from the outer layer to the innermost part of our heart.

Therefore for us who have a relationship with God , we can have the assurance that He is watching us because He knows us. God not only knew us before we were born.He knew us before the foundations of the world.

God knows us.To know us has deeper layers and in Christ we are set free and comforted by that.

 

[PloughBoy]

The Bible never in any hole or dot implicitly or explicitly mention any thing about a gift of freewill or the freewill of mankind anywhere.
If you knew your Bible from front to back you would not even make such concerns and your opinion on freewill.
Mankind lost the freedom to choose when he fell in The Garden. And since then He has been in The BONDAGES to Sin. And those who Jesus has purchase by His Blood now have become bond slaves and now they have another Master and Lord who name is Jesus. Until that Coronation Day, when we received our full inheritance of sonship.

For you have proclaim yourself by your own words you have used as a full blown “semi- pelagian” or better yet a “Arminian “ Christian.

our GOD is more powerful than want you think HE Is. For some parts of your text has declared HIM as a little GOD and not Sovereign.

 

[*Lavender]

Please can you write without it being personal because I didn't mean it in the context you have presented. Ploughboy. I'm new and was told that it was a friendly forum. Now feel very discouraged and at a difficult time. I am a child of God. Not a good start and you've pushed me to the edge of what I'm going through prior to this.

 

[complete]

The gift of free will

There is a lot of scripture on the foundation of the world and before the foundation of the world.

Through seeking this out, did God give us the gift of freewill. Or did He choose His own people regardless of free will?


I personally believe that God gave the gift of freewill.
For He foreknew the elect, and surely knew who would respond to Him.

That is because God knows the beginning to the end and knows us all from the outer layer to the innermost part of our heart.

Therefore for us who have a relationship with God , we can have the assurance that He is watching us because He knows us. God not only knew us before we were born.He knew us before the foundations of the world.

God knows us.To know us has deeper layers and in Christ we are set free and comforted by that.

Hello @Lavender Peace,

It is so good to hear from you again. It seems a long time since I saw your name appear last.

God has given us a natural ability to say, 'No', and to say, 'Yes'. We are not prevented from going to the right hand or to the left at a decision making junction in our life. We can choose God's way, or go, 'in the way of Cain'. Yet, I believe that God, in His foreknowledge knows the way that we will take, and He knows beforehand if we will choose to go His way, or walk in a way contrary to His will: and His will is that we believe on the One Whom He has sent. The Lord Jesus Christ.

I know that you have known the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour, for many years now, and that your desire is to do His will. As you reach out for fellowship with others of like mind, you just want to be received with love, and treated with kindness, as a child of your Father, among others who profess to be so too.

God has strengthened you and kept you through difficult periods of your life, I know, and we have the assurance that He will continue to do so. The strengthening of our faith is sometimes forged on the anvil of difficulty and pain, but the outcome is glorious. So stand fast and be assured that you are not alone, that His loving arms are around you to comfort and to bless.

With love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[complete]

The Bible never in any hole or dot implicitly or explicitly mention any thing about a gift of freewill or the freewill of mankind anywhere.
If you knew your Bible from front to back you would not even make such concerns and your opinion on freewill.
Mankind lost the freedom to choose when he fell in The Garden. And since then He has been in The BONDAGES to Sin. And those who Jesus has purchase by His Blood now have become bond slaves and now they have another Master and Lord who name is Jesus. Until that Coronation Day, when we received our full inheritance of sonship.

For you have proclaim yourself by your own words you have used as a full blown “semi- pelagian” or better yet a “Arminian “ Christian.

our GOD is more powerful than want you think HE Is. For some parts of your text has declared HIM as a little GOD and not Sovereign.

Hello @PloughBoy.

No, there is no reference to a, 'gift of free will,' in Scripture, as you say. I believe that @Lavender Peace did not intend to suggest there is. The freedom to choose, to we who possess it, is a precious thing, much like a gift. It is in this sense that I believe it has been used in the OP. For I am sure that this lady has no doubt about the greatness of her God.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[*Lavender]

Thank you @complete for your support. We have known each other for a long time and I'm not like you have presented Ploughboy. Arminian and Calvinism are labels and I don't prescribe to that but seeking the truth from God our Creator.
I may not have used the right words. I came here for healing. @Ploughman you could have expressed what you wanted to say very easily without attack about me , without knowing me. You would be surprised and can I request please you put your writing in ways that do not make assumptions when you don't know the person. You have no idea how discouraged I felt at a vulnerable time. Where's the gentleness. Could be there but lacking.

 

[PloughBoy]

Hello @PloughBoy.

No, there is no reference to a, 'gift of free will,' in Scripture, as you say. I believe that @Lavender Peace did not intend to suggest there is. The freedom to choose, to we who possess it, is a precious thing, much like a gift. It is in this sense that I believe it has been used in the OP. For I am sure that this lady has no doubt about the greatness of her God.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

So you are saying before GOD chose you unto Salvation you was not in “Bondage” unto sin. You had the will to reject and choose God on your own power and you did not need a Savior to set you, your mind and soul free to choose The Ways of GOD and The Son of GOD The Lamb from from Heaven did not have to come down and die a violent death. For you already had the freedom to choose [Pelagian].

I am not pelagian neither do I embrace Arminianism.

for the GOD I Know is more POWERFUL than The Arminian Thinkers. My GOD does Not Have to Look No Where to see what The Out come will be. And My GOD, What ever HE Wills comes to Pass. HE is more powerful Than The Human can Perceive .
It has to be a weak GOD that has to look into time to see what the out come will be. It is a weak GOD to will something and it does not come to pass. I would not serve or pray to such a weak GOD nor could I believe in such a god as that. He has to look into time to see the out come of sometime. And when He wills something it might come to pass. And he has to wish something to be.

I wouldn’t waste my time on a little god as such.
The God and Father I know is “SOVEREIGN “ and No other words in The English language can describe Him beyond that with description.

Now please don’t be alarm, my words mean no harm to any. Every person may choose what they believe and remember I do not call myself a Christian and I have that right as A American citizen. And I have that right as a “Child of The Living GOD” Born of His Spirit in 1977 just a few weeks from Easter Sunday at my place of Employment in front of Hundreds of People both saved and unsaved. Before some who are Sons and nor sons of GOD and before all The host Of Angels and The creature’s in Heaven all was rejoicing at my birth so help me God and HE called me by name. HE chose me and I did not choose Him, For
I was bought with a price and I am not my own but own of GOD.

But I know many may do as they please for He is not The Captain of Their Soul and they may do and say as they please and Jesus is Not Their Lord and Master meaning they are not His slaves.

For I believe so do I speak, many have not the ability to choose The Ways of GOD but can profess and confess Him and claim they know Him and many will, because they are Christian’s and The Church told them they were. And by doing so the church has replace The SOVEREIGNTY of GOD it would seem.

GOD did not call me to a Fairly Land or a Fair Ground or to rejoice in Tinsel Land but He Called me To a Battleground a field to be abused, lied on, talk about called every name but a child of GOD to be spit upon, even hit by friendly fire. Knock down And sometimes dazed, wounded and many times to be scarred. How else would I know what The Balm of Gilead . Can heal. And why His Word have commanded us to put on The Whole Armor of GOD and To Take His Sword into My Hand, for He gave me A book of Warfare and He commanded to be skill in it. For The weapons of our Warfare is Spiritual and there are many causalities.
He did not command us to wear a dress and have tea parties and bake cookies.
And when you prepare a dinner banquet He Told you who to call.

Do not be alarmed at my words we only have 3 enemies and all three are orchestrated very well.
1. the. World
2. The Flesh
3. “The Perfect Adversary” whom most known as The Devil.

 

[complete]

So you are saying before GOD chose you unto Salvation you was not in “Bondage” unto sin. You had the will to reject and choose God on your own power and you did not need a Savior to set you, your mind and soul free to choose The Ways of GOD and The Son of GOD The Lamb from from Heaven did not have to come down and die a violent death. For you already had the freedom to choose [Pelagian].

I am not pelagian neither do I embrace Arminianism.

for the GOD I Know is more POWERFUL than The Arminian Thinkers. My GOD does Not Have to Look No Where to see what The Out come will be. And My GOD, What ever HE Wills comes to Pass. HE is more powerful Than The Human can Perceive .
It has to be a weak GOD that has to look into time to see what the out come will be. It is a weak GOD to will something and it does not come to pass. I would not serve or pray to such a weak GOD nor could I believe in such a god as that. He has to look into time to see the out come of sometime. And when He wills something it might come to pass. And he has to wish something to be.

I wouldn’t waste my time on a little god as such.
The God and Father I know is “SOVEREIGN “ and No other words in The English language can describe Him beyond that with description.

Now please don’t be alarm, my words mean no harm to any. Every person may choose what they believe and remember I do not call myself a Christian and I have that right as A American citizen. And I have that right as a “Child of The Living GOD” Born of His Spirit in 1977 just a few weeks from Easter Sunday at my place of Employment in front of Hundreds of People both saved and unsaved. Before some who are Sons and nor sons of GOD and before all The host Of Angels and The creature’s in Heaven all was rejoicing at my birth so help me God and HE called me by name. HE chose me and I did not choose Him, For
I was bought with a price and I am not my own but own of GOD.

But I know many may do as they please for He is not The Captain of Their Soul and they may do and say as they please and Jesus is Not Their Lord and Master meaning they are not His slaves.

For I believe so do I speak, many have not the ability to choose The Ways of GOD but can profess and confess Him and claim they know Him and many will, because they are Christian’s and The Church told them they were. And by doing so the church has replace The SOVEREIGNTY of GOD it would seem.

GOD did not call me to a Fairly Land or a Fair Ground or to rejoice in Tinsel Land but He Called me To a Battleground a field to be abused, lied on, talk about called every name but a child of GOD to be spit upon, even hit by friendly fire. Knock down And sometimes dazed, wounded and many times to be scarred. How else would I know what The Balm of Gilead . Can heal. And why His Word have commanded us to put on The Whole Armor of GOD and To Take His Sword into My Hand, for He gave me A book of Warfare and He commanded to be skill in it. For The weapons of our Warfare is Spiritual and there are many causalities.
He did not command us to wear a dress and have tea parties and bake cookies.
And when you prepare a dinner banquet He Told you who to call.

Do not be alarmed at my words we only have 3 enemies and all three are orchestrated very well.
1. the. World
2. The Flesh
3. “The Perfect Adversary” whom most known as The Devil.

'For whom He did foreknow,
He also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called:
and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them He also glorified.'
(Rom 8:29)

Hello @PloughBoy,

Thank you for giving an explanation of what is meant by such terms as, 'Pelagian' and 'Arminianism.'

Forgive me if I don't enter into discussion on either of them. For I have seen debates on free will, and they go on and on, and can become quite acrimonious. That is not what I was called to do. I know that I was saved by God's grace, that His gospel of grace was heard by me, that it's entrance brought light, so that I recognised my state before God as a sinner, and acknowledged His provision of the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, and asked Him to forgive me my sin, and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. That is what I know, that is what happened. Like the man born blind I can say, '... this one thing I know.'

God has foreknowledge, and knows beforehand those who will believe on His Son, and receive forgiveness of sin, and is thereby able to predestinate them to be conformed to the image of His Son. Salvation is open to all who will believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and believing they receive life through His Name. The call has gone out, the word has been given, and those who have ears to hear will hear, and will believe to the saving of their souls.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[PloughBoy]

Thank you @complete for your support. We have known each other for a long time and I'm not like you have presented Ploughboy. Arminian and Calvinism are labels and I don't prescribe to that but seeking the truth from God our Creator.
I may not have used the right words. I came here for healing. @Ploughman you could have expressed what you wanted to say very easily without attack about me , without knowing me. You would be surprised and can I request please you put your writing in ways that do not make assumptions when you don't know the person. You have no idea how discouraged I felt at a vulnerable time. Where's the gentleness. Could be there but lacking.

Who told you I was attacking you. Have not you read about The Stokes of a friend but you prefer the kisses of the enemy. Have you ever been wounded or injured and the healing process was more painful than the wound more pain than the injury. So it is in the flesh so it is in the soul.
So the flesh returns to the dirt but the soul returns to The God who created it.

I am not your enemy nor your girls night out. For I am a ambassador and one of The proclaimers of “The TRUTH” not truth but “The TRUTH”. And men and women loves darkness rather than LIGHT for The LIGHT is to painful and it hurts our eyes.

if anyone is a Child of The Living GOD he must embrace suffering and pain as a friendly friend how else can The Comforter do that part of His work. And I am not The Comforter and I have not The Ability to do His work but A proclaimer of His Word.

The Wounds of A friend is faithful but the enemies kisses are deceitful. Beware of The ones who pats you on the back. They by patting you on the back think they are helping but it is only the ways of The World and they become servants of worldly ways and determine that this is The Ways of GOD.
I am not your enemy nor the patter who pats you on the back or the shoulder you may cry on .
That is “The ways” of the world and has been adopted of many Christian’s as the ways of GOD.
For many has Bowed down to the god of this world. And have honor him by their worldly practices of ways. The world loves their own and do care and honor them everyday.

 

[PloughBoy]

Hello @PloughBoy,

Thank you for giving an explanation of what is meant by such terms as, 'Pelagian' and 'Arminianism.'

Forgive me if I don't enter into discussion on either of them. For I have seen debates on free will, and they go on and on, and can become quite acrimonious. That is not what I was called to do. I know that I was saved by God's grace, that His gospel of grace was heard by me, that it's entrance brought light, so that I recognised my state before God as a sinner, and acknowledged His provision of the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour, and asked Him to forgive me my sin, and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. That is what I know, that is what happened. Like the man born blind I can say, '... this one thing I know.'

God has foreknowledge, and knows beforehand those who will believe on His Son, and receive forgiveness of sin, and is thereby able to pre-destine them for the calling unto which they have been called. Salvation is open to all who will believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, for believing they receive life through His Name.

Beyond that I cannot go.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

We are all called to proclaim “The TRUTH “ not truth but THE TRUTH. And to die for it and to stand on That TRUTH when all others fade away.

 

[complete]

' Faithful are the wounds of a friend;
but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.'
(Pro 27:6)

Hello @PloughBoy,

You can seem quite fearsome on times though.

 

[*Lavender]

I understand this @complete " faithful are the wounds of a friend but the kisses of the enemy are deceitful." but there is a season a right time and nobody would do that if they were knocked down by a carthorse but at a time of strong recovery. Maybe I shouldn't have posted though

 

[PloughBoy]

' Faithful are the wounds of a friend;
but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.'
(Pro 27:6)

Hello @PloughBoy,

You can seem quite fearsome on times though.

Humbly as your servant.

 

[PloughBoy]

I understand this @complete " faithful are the wounds of a friend but the kisses of the enemy are deceitful." but there is a season a right time and nobody would do that if they were knocked down by a carthorse but at a time of strong recovery. Maybe I shouldn't have posted though

Jesus died on a cross. A place HE didn’t want to go and He feared what HE had to Go through and HE cried strong Tears but in obedience to HIS Father HE obeyed and suffered a violent death for guilty criminals who deserved nothing but damnation. A Just GOD for corrupted people.
Are you not ashamed and broken by HIM taking your place for what HE did not deserved but you did. And did you tell Him no Lord don’t die for me I am to sinful. Or you felt deserving for The Son of God to die in your place and how painful it was for you for HIM to die in your place. How much pain did you have after coming into the knowledge of This “TRUTH”?

That is a question unto yourself.

And you need not have to reply.

 

[Hekuran]

Jesus died on a cross. A place HE didn’t want to go and He feared what HE had to Go through and HE cried strong Tears but in obedience to HIS Father HE obeyed and suffered a violent death for guilty criminals who deserved nothing but damnation. A Just GOD for corrupted people.
Are you not ashamed and broken by HIM taking your place for what HE did not deserved but you did. And did you tell Him no Lord don’t die for me I am to sinful. Or you felt deserving for The Son of God to die in your place and how painful it was for you for HIM to die in your place. How much pain did you have after coming into the knowledge of This “TRUTH”?

That is a question unto yourself.

And you need not have to reply.

PloughBoy, sometimes you are nothing more and nothing less than a bully.

Don't you realise that your ill tempered words cause real damage to real people?

 

[complete]

I understand this @complete " faithful are the wounds of a friend but the kisses of the enemy are deceitful." but there is a season a right time and nobody would do that if they were knocked down by a carthorse but at a time of strong recovery. Maybe I shouldn't have posted though

Hello @Lavender Peace,

I am glad you posted.

 

[PloughBoy]

PloughBoy, sometimes you are nothing more and nothing less than a bully.

Don't you realise that your ill tempered words cause real damage to real people?

Sir your words are kind I am worst than that and only deserve damnation for all eternity for I am a corrupted creature that has been redeem by The Lord Almighty God and I am not a Christian neither am I a liar. And if one claims I am not a Child of GOD speak up now and let your words be recorded in the halls of Justice for they will raise up against me at The Judgment Seat of GOD. For the same words that one may apply to me will be applied to them.

Thanks for you kind words for I see you do not know how corrupted I am. I am so corrupted that only a GOD can redeem me.
But one day This corruption will put the garment of incorruption on. And will be able To approach The Throne as one of The Sons of God and not by choice But chosen of GOD before time existed and The world and all Planets came to be I was Ordain to be One of HIS Sons. So again I wear what ever you call me and judge the way I proclaim, for I am not a worldly Emily Post or practice The Etiquette of The world that many love I am not your Christian that you want sitting at your table and one that promote the things and practices of this world and call it Christ like.
I am liken to one of The ones that does not wash his hands before he eats. I am one of the “Ignorant Ones” and Ill manner, for many are to good for me to be in your presence and I do not earn a seat at your table for I am also one of The despicable ones and know it.
I am not a Christian so do not be surprise if I do not put on a act and act like one.

PS. I have to remind some who I ain’t.

and if I damage people, what say you of The church and all the lies and the stealing and rapes they have done through out the centuries. In The name of Jesus. You say nothing but honor those and the organization that commits such atrocities.

So here I stand so help me GOD.

 

[PloughBoy]

Why do many think when they post Threads there will be no opposition. Did a lot of us have debates in high school of all kinds of debates and had to play both sides. And in Christianity Calvinist, Arminianism, Pelagian, Lutherans, Baptist , Methodist, Puritans.. etc.

if you post in discussion, there will be a debate. If you post a Thread in Questions about Christianity There will be a debate.

we all got opinions we are variables. No one hair is the same.

I understand we all get upset, every now and then, because things are not going our way. But that is why we are unique. This is not “Burger King” and women your feeling is going to get hurt. And you might cry men too. You will get over it but stay True to The TRUTH no matter how painful it is. Joy will come if you are Truly a Child of The Living GOD. But you must except The TRUTH, and you must know what The TRUTH is. Faking only hurts you beyond repair. And you will never come into THE LIGHT.

 

[*Lavender]

Thank you for the support Complete and Hekuran.
Ploughboy I appreciate your view point for food for thought but not the way it was put across.
If you can write down what you want to say but detached from an intimidating manner then more people would listen to you and read important things you say.

It's true that everybody is born into the bondage of sin, except that babies young children and people with mental infirmities are surely not accountable.
Only surely too then when we become accountable to God we have the freewill to chose or refuse Jesus.
If we didn't have the freedom to choose or refuse redemption, then we would be more determined and controlled and unspontaneous creatures.
In that case, why would there be a judgement, within the suggestion of not having freewill because that suggests that there is no flexibility and all our steps are controlled, for which would be tyranny if then judged.

 

[PloughBoy]

May I say this in kindness they did not like Jesus for how He put it across. that is one of the reasons they killed Him. Even the very ones whom He fed and healed. Crucify Him, The more Pilate tried to set Him free the more they cried Crucify Him. And give us Barabbas.

NASB 1977
For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

King James Version
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God..

Maybe a lot of Christian’s in this world are trying to be nice and deliver worldly kindness with all the Oprah mentality of kindness and to make you feel good. For she is also a Christian and uses Jesus name often.
But I am not one who is trying to get people to listen to me. For I am just a witness and a proclaimer.


New International Version
Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

Adultery and fornication makes you feel good. Because “stolen waters are Sweet” and it’s kisses has the taste of honey” and lips are smoother than butter.
But those practices Have destroyed thousands in the name of Love. And have done such things in the name of GOD. Proclaiming GOD wants me to be Happy, They have refuse to go through The Purifying FIRE of GOD. Into “Sanctification and Holiness” by suffering In The Righteousness of GOD enduring Their Cross despising the shame.

If the world hated Jesus they will hate you too.

1 Peter 4 KJV
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to test you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.