The Poverty : Gospel

[Bethel]

Reader,


Lets say that a young mother ......is not born again, and they have 6 young children.
She is 25 yrs old, and her husband left her, after #6 was yet to be born.
Two of the Children are Twins., the boys...... and 4 are little girls.
'Mary" is dirt poor and on food stamps....and the children are dressed in rags, none of them are over 6, and often they are barefoot in the winter.

So, on one side of Mary, is a Christian family, who believes that if they are starving (and so are their 3 children), then that is a "Godly sign of Spirituality".
They teach and preach the "poverty gospel" as their faith, even tho the Bible teaches that "Poverty is the destruction of the poor".

On the other side of Mary, is a family of Believers, and they have been blessed abundantly beyond measure, and they give some of their money into the work of God, and He's keeps giving them more of His money, through them.
They have the favor of God on them, and Jesus said, I have come to "give you life, and that more abundantly".

So, Mary the young single mother, and her 6 children, need a new furnace., and its winter and they are very cold in their wood frame house that has no funace heat.

1.) So, she goes to the "poverty gospel Christians" and says...>"can you help us"?
And the Poverty Gospel Christians say...>"...oh...would that we could..... but we have nothing we can give you, and we too are freezing every winter, but God is well pleased.. and ... God bless.""""".

And Mary says......'"ummmm, ok, thanks".

2.) Then Mary goes to the other Christian neighbors, and says... "Can you help me and my children, we are so cold"'..
And the Christian man and wife invite her in for a moment, and they listen... and they say......" Mary, hon....you are coming here to stay with us, right now.....and your children also. And we'll put sleeping bags on the carpeted floors and find a way to keep us all warm, and tomorrow, we'll call the Furnace Specialist and have them come and repair... or put in a new furnace in for you, and we'll see about helping you pay off your mortgage also.. And we'll go shopping tomorrow for some socks and shoes for your kids"...Now Mary, we are here for you, we are your new family, because God loves you and so do we.".


Now reader.

Are you paying attention?

Then....You've already seen what i wanted you to see.

- God bless.

 

[KingJ]

Well, scripture is crystal clear on the fact that poverty comes to the lazy Pro 10:4.

Then, not to sound sexist, but scripture is also crystal clear on the fact that:

1. A man that doesn't work to provide for his family has denied his faith and is worse then an unbeliever 1 Tim 5:8.
2. Christianity 101 is looking after and helping widows and orphans in need James 1:27.

It is incorrect to compare poor or rich with poverty and blessed in Christianity.

Poverty is having no food. A poor Christian will always have food Matt 6:26-27. A poor Christian does not need riches to be blessed.

The chief argument for me rests in many thinking they are Christians when in fact they are not. You cannot ask God for help if you are not a Christian. God does not hear the prayers of sinners John 9:31.

When 'His people' prayed for help in the wilderness, He dropped food from heaven on their heads.

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One-day soon we will all sit with God and have tea and biscuits. There will be no discussion on ''why He abandoned us''. This is because He will not ever abandon us Heb 13:5. Many who feel abandoned, just may not be Christians.

Whenever we have problems, we need to examine ourselves and ensure we are Christians. If we pass, then accept that God is putting you through a trial. A trial from God can literally be anything. But no matter what it is, when you call on Him, He will be there at your side. His literal presence!!!!

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I went to the UK 15 years ago with a working Visa. I saved up enough money to give me three months to find a job. My fiance was to come over as soon as I got a job.

After two months, I got news that my fiance was not coming over. I saw my bank account was empty. I was in a flat above a bar that would play music into the early hours of the morning. I got on my knees and said ''God please help me, I am alone, broke and annoyed as hell in this situation''. A warm presence entered my room. God literally made His presence real to me. Within the next week I I found a job and was able to pay rent before getting kicked out. Recovering from my fiance not coming over took a while, but God showed me how she was not the right person for me. I will not go into detail, just say that I thank God often that I did not marry her.

Some of us can endure more then others. Job for example can endure more suffering for God then any of us. We just may need to report to him in heaven one-day. I can only endure a little suffering. God knows this. I know this. God is always at my side. He has never abandoned me. He will never abandon any of His children. That is 100% fact. We just need to make 100% certain that we are in fact 'His children'. 2 Cor 13:5-7.

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In your example the needy go to Christian A or Christian B. The needy need to ensure they are Christians and then call on God. God will lead them and help them. He is our God. Not Christian A or Christian B.

 

[Bethel]

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In your example the needy go to Christian A or Christian B. The needy need to ensure they are Christians and then call on God. God will lead them and help them. He is our God. Not Christian A or Christian B.

Does God require the "needy" to be a Christian before the Christian can help them?

If that is true then Jesus was certainly confused when he cast out devils and healed the sick, and none of them were "Christians".

In Fact, "Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".. not .... "christians"....

 

[KingJ]

Does God require the "needy" to be a Christian before the Christian can help them?

Yes and no. God helps all to a degree. But however, He does not answer the prayers of sinners John 9:31. This would encompass all non Christians.

If that is true then Jesus was certainly confused when he cast out devils and healed the sick, and none of them were "Christians".

Jesus performed miracles that were necessary to make Him known as being more then just merely another random person.

In Fact, "Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".. not .... "christians"....

Christians are saved sinners.

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Free will is a very hard topic to grasp and discuss.

You seem to think God does and will help the unsaved. If that is the case, why did 6 million Jews die to the Nazis? Where was God? Why is God not helping all the hungry children in Africa?

 

[Bethel]

Yes and no. God helps all to a degree.

Every time a "non-believer" says.."God save me". "I trust in Jesus".. = God hears that Prayer

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Free will is a very hard topic to grasp and discuss.

Its an easy topic to discuss, but its an impossible one for a Calvinist to understand.

why did 6 million Jews die to the Nazis?

For the same reason that 1400 Jews just died in Israel last Oct 7.

What we can't do, and it be honest..... is blame God for the deeds of man.

You committed sin all your life., same as anyone else. @KingJ
This is not 'God caused". its "People Chosen".
You chose to sin., same as everyone else.

So when Hitler orders the death of 6 million, or when Islam orders the death of "all Jews" then that is not God caused.
That is MAN doing that to MAN.

Where was God? Why is God not helping all the hungry children in Africa?

He's helping them.

Jesus performed miracles that were necessary to make Him known as being more then just merely another random person.

Jesus came to the House of Israel , and the Jews require that their Messiah show them "signs".
He did.
Every Healing, every miracle.

And God is still healing today, tomorrow.

Free will is a very hard topic to grasp and discuss.

Free Will is : Choice.
You'll make hundreds today, and you made them all.

Welcome to your : Free will

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Upon whom does God send rain, according to the Bible?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Bethel]

Greetings,

Upon whom does God send rain, according to the Bible?


Bless you ....><>

A.) on the evil and the good.

God is good all the time.

In fact its God's Goodness that leads an unbeliever to faith in Christ.....and a "cold" Christian back to God's heart.

 

[KingJ]

Every time a "non-believer" says.."God save me". "I trust in Jesus".. = God hears that Prayer

Why would someone say they trust in Jesus? God save me from what?

We need to be specific. The sinners prayer is what God hears. That is repentance of sin and an acceptance of Jesus. All He said, taught and stood for. A complete submission to Him Matt 16:24.

Its an easy topic to discuss, but its an impossible one for a Calvinist to understand.

Its not. Hardest topic in Christianity.

For the same reason that 1400 Jews just died in Israel last Oct 7.

What we can't do, and it be honest..... is blame God for the deeds of man.

You are just moving the goal posts. Yes, 1400 Jews died. Where was God helping them?

God helped all Hebrews in prison pass through a red sea with Romans chasing them. Why not help those 1400 the same? The answer entails an understanding of free will. God's hands are tied from helping anyone. We need to unlock them. Only one way to unlock them What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

You committed sin all your life., same as anyone else. @KingJ
This is not 'God caused". its "People Chosen".
You chose to sin., same as everyone else.

Yes and no. I am a repentant sinner (Christianity 101). Many sinners are unrepentant.

All Hebrews that passed the red sea were either repentant sinners or sanctified by those that were.

So when Hitler orders the death of 6 million, or when Islam orders the death of "all Jews" then that is not God caused.
That is MAN doing that to MAN.

Yes agreed. My point is, where is God's help?

He's helping them.

3.1 million children die every year from a lack of essential food. Where is God?

Jesus came to the House of Israel , and the Jews require that their Messiah show them "signs".
He did.
Every Healing, every miracle.

And God is still healing today, tomorrow.

Agree and agree.

Free Will is : Choice.
You'll make hundreds today, and you made them all.

Welcome to your : Free will

Not sure what your point is? Yes free will is choice.

If you don't think its a difficult topic, explain to me how you have true free will when God is omniscient (all knowing).

 

[Bethel]

Why would someone say they trust in Jesus?

Because they heard the Gospel and believed it.

God save me from what?

Sin,
Hell.

This :

John 3:36

We need to be specific. The sinners prayer is what God hears. That is repentance of sin

God does not save you because you turn from Sin.

God saves you because you Trusted in Christ.

And what is that ?

That is repenting from : UNBELIEF... That is turning from unbelief, to FAITH in Christ.

That is what God "hears". as that is real "repentance".

You are just moving the goal posts. Yes, 1400 Jews died. Where was God helping them?

God is in a unique position, based on allowing free will.

See, when God allows us to be "like Him" or "made in His image", then He has opted to allow Man to choose what they are going to do.

So, when we see Child Molesting, or we see, Calvinism, or Catholocism, or Islam, being allowed to exist..
When we see a Hitler, or a Biden ,or a Obama, or a Putin... it because God is allowing them to exist, because every single person, has a right to choose to do what they want.

God created us all as free will moral agents, and some chose to not be moral, and some choose to be immoral, and some choose to kill other people.

This is not God "letting it happen".....This is God's gift to Humans.....in that God has given you the right to choose your behavior.

If you decide to use your life to harm others, then that is not God's fault, that is your CHOICE.

Never blame God for giving mankind the opportunity to choose what they do.

Even Choosing to go to Heaven or Hell, is our decision.

God helped all Hebrews in prison pass through a red sea with Romans chasing them. Why not help those 1400 the same?

God was dealing with the Jew then.
He continued this, with Jesus who "came to the house of Israel"..

And the reason that God provided the miracles of Jesus and those you are describing in the Exodus, is because "Jews require a sign".....as that is their covenant with God.

You can read it here..

1 Corinthians 1:22

Yes and no. I am a repentant sinner (Christianity 101). Many sinners are unrepentant.

A Christian is not a sinner.
A Christian is a Son/Daughter of God.

And UNBELEIVER is a sinner, still in their sin.

 

[Twistie]

Does God require the "needy" to be a Christian before the Christian can help them?

If that is true then Jesus was certainly confused when he cast out devils and healed the sick, and none of them were "Christians".

In Fact, "Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".. not .... "christians"....

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Even the sea monsters draw out the breast, they give suck to their young ones: the daughter of my people is become cruel, like the ostriches in the wilderness.

 

[KingJ]

God does not save you because you turn from Sin.

God saves you because you Trusted in Christ.

In the NT it would be both. Repenting of sins and accepting Jesus (not just trusting) are mutually inclusive.

And what is that ?

That is repenting from : UNBELIEF... That is turning from unbelief, to FAITH in Christ.

That is what God "hears". as that is real "repentance".

I am not following. If you don't mind can I start a new thread on this. I have heard someone else here state the same thing. I honestly don't understand. How is unbelief something we need to repent of?

God is in a unique position, based on allowing free will.

See, when God allows us to be "like Him" or "made in His image", then He has opted to allow Man to choose what they are going to do.

So, when we see Child Molesting, or we see, Calvinism, or Catholocism, or Islam, being allowed to exist..
When we see a Hitler, or a Biden ,or a Obama, or a Putin... it because God is allowing them to exist, because every single person, has a right to choose to do what they want.

God created us all as free will moral agents, and some chose to not be moral, and some choose to be immoral, and some choose to kill other people.

This is not God "letting it happen".....This is God's gift to Humans.....in that God has given you the right to choose your behavior.

If you decide to use your life to harm others, then that is not God's fault, that is your CHOICE.

Never blame God for giving mankind the opportunity to choose what they do.

Even Choosing to go to Heaven or Hell, is our decision.

No offence, but I don't think you understand the quantum of the point I made.

If God is all knowing + the creator of all. How is it that you believe you have true free will? He would surely know from birth all the thoughts and decisions you are going to make. As Rom 9:21 alludes to, you could be a vessel created unto dishonor

Now I do believe in true free will. The only way I believe one can explain it I share here Free will.

I have only stated that it is a hard topic to grasp and to bear in mind in certain situations like for example when children are mistreated.

A Christian is not a sinner.
A Christian is a Son/Daughter of God.

Agreed, but important to explain those statements.

The word 'sinner' implies one who continues in sin unrepentant. A Christian is someone who still sins Rom 7:15, but repents and battles with them.

And UNBELEIVER is a sinner, still in their sin.

Agreed, but again important to explain that statement What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

Many great believers and people of great faith are 100% en route to hell per James 7:21-23.