The real big problem with a non-OSAS belief

[KingJ]

One can go down two paths with a non-OSAS belief. One is fine, the other is not.

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

I am an OSAS believer. The church I attend teaches non-OSAS. But they preach it in a way that does not incriminate God. After much debate and discussion with church elders, studying of scripture and meditating on the topic. The following are my thoughts. For discussion purposes I am going to try to keep it as simple and as clear as possible.

The right path - You do not attempt to 'play God'.

If someone asks you if person A or B are saved and going to heaven, you say ''I don't know''. Or you say, ''by looking at their works, I doubt it, but let's not fool ourselves, only God can judge their heart Jer 17:9-10. As for me, I work out my salvation in fear and trembling every day Phil 2:12. Knowing that even I can think I am saved and not be saved 1 Cor 10:12''.

The wrong path - You do attempt to 'play God'.

If someone asks you if person A or B are saved and going to heaven, you say ''No!, they are sinning, they have shipwrecked their salvation''. As if you ever knew whether or not they ever had salvation.

----------------------

It is as simple as that. A non-OSAS belief, when pushed by people trying to play God can so easily stumble and misrepresent God to the lost.

Taking the wrong path leads to the following heresies:

1. Jer 17:9-10 is a lie, God cannot judge the heart.
2. Num 23:19 is a lie, God is like a human who can make the mistake of grafting a Judas into heaven.
3. Deut 31:8 is a lie, God will leave and forsake you if you leave him and fall into sin.
4. Job 34:12 and 1 Cor 10:13 is a lie, God is unjust on many as He purposely sends many Christians He does not like to spaces with greater temptation of sin, in order that they may fall.
5. Rom 10:9 and John 3:16 is a lie. Just because you can call Jesus Lord and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead does not mean you are saved.
6. You save yourself by living in a box and avoiding all temptations.
7. You must try fly on airlines that don't properly build or maintain their airplanes as the sooner you die the better your odds of making it to heaven.

There are many more I could list. But I will pause there for now and end with a warning to those that stumble the weak in Christ.

Matt 18:6 "But if anyone causes one of these little ones those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

 

[Gothedral]

I think I've heard arguments about "once saved, always saved" before. Lucifer before his fall from grace and Heaven (of all places to sin, eh), and former chosen Apostle Judas Iscariot come to mind.

"Once saved - always saved" did not apply to them, so I think I can see the doom and gloom perspective of people out there denying OSAS... especially since Christ keeps having to send even some effective exorcists to Hell for their behavior.

Saint Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

One can go down two paths with a non-OSAS belief. One is fine, the other is not.

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

I am an OSAS believer. The church I attend teaches non-OSAS. But they preach it in a way that does not incriminate God. After much debate and discussion with church elders, studying of scripture and meditating on the topic. The following are my thoughts. For discussion purposes I am going to try to keep it as simple and as clear as possible.

The right path - You do not attempt to 'play God'.

If someone asks you if person A or B are saved and going to heaven, you say ''I don't know''. Or you say, ''by looking at their works, I doubt it, but let's not fool ourselves, only God can judge their heart Jer 17:9-10. As for me, I work out my salvation in fear and trembling every day Phil 2:12. Knowing that even I can think I am saved and not be saved 1 Cor 10:12''.

The wrong path - You do attempt to 'play God'.

If someone asks you if person A or B are saved and going to heaven, you say ''No!, they are sinning, they have shipwrecked their salvation''. As if you ever knew whether or not they ever had salvation.

----------------------

It is as simple as that. A non-OSAS belief, when pushed by people trying to play God can so easily stumble and misrepresent God to the lost.

Taking the wrong path leads to the following heresies:

1. Jer 17:9-10 is a lie, God cannot judge the heart.
2. Num 23:19 is a lie, God is like a human who can make the mistake of grafting a Judas into heaven.
3. Deut 31:8 is a lie, God will leave and forsake you if you leave him and fall into sin.
4. Job 34:12 and 1 Cor 10:13 is a lie, God is unjust on many as He purposely sends many Christians He does not like to spaces with greater temptation of sin, in order that they may fall.
5. Rom 10:9 and John 3:16 is a lie. Just because you can call Jesus Lord and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead does not mean you are saved.
6. You save yourself by living in a box and avoiding all temptations.
7. You must try fly on airlines that don't properly build or maintain their airplanes as the sooner you die the better your odds of making it to heaven.

There are many more I could list. But I will pause there for now and end with a warning to those that stumble the weak in Christ.

Matt 18:6 "But if anyone causes one of these little ones those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."

I get the impression you are thinking of salvation by works....By the empowering Presence of God are ye saved, because of your trust in Him....Not of works....
You can fall ten times a day...or more....and you still trust HIM to save you, and you ARE saved. Yup I changed a few words there...I wrote the meaning of the words...the scripture is still sound

 

[Leumas]

I get the impression you are thinking of salvation by works....By the empowering Presence of God are ye saved, because of your trust in Him....Not of works....
You can fall ten times a day...or more....and you still trust HIM to save you, and you ARE saved. Yup I changed a few words there...I wrote the meaning of the words...the scripture is still sound

There is no salvation of God,
in the worker of iniquity.

True or false?

 

[Dave M]

Hebrews 6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
6 and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
Hebrews 10
26 If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

 

[Leumas]

Hebrews 6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age—
6 and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
Hebrews 10
26 If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

When you disobey any commandment of Jesus Christ, you have rejected him.
True or false?

 

[Dave M]

When you disobey any commandment of Jesus Christ, you have rejected him.
True or false?

False there is a difference between struggling in sin and stumbling in sin and rejecting Jesus two different things entirely,

l

 

[Leumas]

False there is a difference between struggling in sin and stumbling in sin and rejecting Jesus two different things entirely,

l

When you disobey any commandment, of Jesus Christ, then you have accepted him.

True or false?

 

[Dave M]

When you disobey any commandment, of Jesus Christ, then you have accepted him.

True or false?

it really depends, there is a difference in willfully singing and living in sin, then struggling and repenting.

But as we mature in Christ, we will sin less and less and be broken from the chains of sin that enslave every person on the planet. For that is the power of God that is what it is to be born again, some its a slow process, some its a longer process, its called sanctification. We become new creatures the old has passed away.

1 John 3:6​

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9​

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
we should see a difference in the way we live when we abide in him, when we are born again

but if we do sin,

1 John 1:9​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:8​

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:1-2​

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Leumas]

it really depends, there is a difference in willfully singing and living in sin, then struggling and repenting.

But as we mature in Christ, we will sin less and less and be broken from the chains of sin that enslave every person on the planet. For that is the power of God that is what it is to be born again, some its a slow process, some its a longer process, its called sanctification. We become new creatures the old has passed away.

1 John 3:6​

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9​

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
we should see a difference in the way we live when we abide in him, when we are born again

but if we do sin,

1 John 1:9​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:8​

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:1-2​

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

When anyone commits sin, they are a worker of iniquity. True or false?

 

[Leumas]

I like to see how far someone will take it to justify committing sin as being acceptable to the Lord. It's amazing how far people will take it nowadays.

 

[Leumas]

No sin, committed by anyone, at any time for any reason, willfully or unwillfully is acceptable to the Lord God Almighty most high.

 

[Leumas]

Now the devil he will from time to time go
sppppsstt...

You will surely be all right when you commit that sin, go ahead, God will forgive you and he will even give you another chance to disobey him again.
In fact he'll let you do it over and over and over and over and over to your heart's desire and never will do nothing about it.

 

[Leumas]

it really depends, there is a difference in willfully singing and living in sin, then struggling and repenting.

But as we mature in Christ, we will sin less and less and be broken from the chains of sin that enslave every person on the planet. For that is the power of God that is what it is to be born again, some its a slow process, some its a longer process, its called sanctification. We become new creatures the old has passed away.

1 John 3:6​

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9​

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
we should see a difference in the way we live when we abide in him, when we are born again

but if we do sin,

1 John 1:9​

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:8​

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:1-2​

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

If I ever do commit sin, I'm going to be sure and show God all this you said to me as my defense and on my behalf of committing sin.

Do you think it'll deliver me? Yes or no

 

[Dave M]

If I ever do commit sin, I'm going to be sure and show God all this you said to me as my defense and on my behalf of committing sin.

Do you think it'll deliver me? Yes or no

do not take mans word what does scripture say, have you been born again? yes or no

 

[Leumas]

do not take mans word what does scripture say, have you been born again? yes or no

Your question makes me wonder,
was Jesus born again?

 

[Leumas]

When you're born again, will you die again?

 

[Leumas]

Did Jesus come down from heaven to be born again?

 

[Leumas]

do not take mans word what does scripture say, have you been born again? yes or no

How do you know the difference between a man's word and scripture, seeing how what you believe is scripture was written by a man?

 

[Leumas]

How would you even know the truth if you didn't know the truth from the beginning, how would you know that what you believe is the truth when you didn't know the truth from the beginning?