The Works doctrine.

[B-A-C]

The dreaded works doctrine.

The Bible says we are not saved by works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

You rarely hear verse 10 above quoted with the other two, I sometimes wonder why?
However, the Bible also says...

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

So then which is it? Works or no works? I believe there is a before and after. Before you are saved, there is nothing you can do to get saved except have faith.
However, once you have been saved, there should be an evidence of this after a period of time.

Matt 25:14 "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
Matt 25:15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Matt 25:16 "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
Matt 25:17 "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
Matt 25:18 "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Matt 25:19 "Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
Matt 25:20 "The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
Matt 25:21 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:22 "Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
Matt 25:23 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:24 "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There were three slaves in the masters house. He gave talents or gifts to all of them. He told two of them, "well done". But the third one, he called wicked and lazy.
He has that slave thrown out, into that place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This slave didn't do anything wrong really. It doesn't say he committed any sins. The only thing the master had against him was... he didn't do anything at all.

... another story from Matt 25.

Matt 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
Matt 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
Matt 25:33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
Matt 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Matt 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Matt 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
Matt 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Matt 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Matt 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Matt 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matt 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Matt 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Matt 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

We all know the story. The sheep and the goats. Verse 31 says Jesus will be sitting on His throne. Then He will separate people
He doesn't separate them by what they say they believe. He separates them by what they have done... or didn't do as the case may be.
The people who helped the needy go to eternal life. The other group, again, they didn't really do any big sins or anything. They just didn't do anything at all.
It says these people will go to eternal punishment.

Luke 13:6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

If Jesus is the true vine, and no tree can bear fruit without Him, why would He come expecting to find fruit on this tree? He gave the tree three years ( four actually )
But it seems some trees, even with Jesus fertilizing them and watering them... they refuse to bear fruit. These trees get cut down.

Matt 22:10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12 and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Many are called, but few are chosen. Why? Why aren't some chosen? It's interesting the wedding hall had both "evil and good" people here.
But there was a man who didn't have wedding clothes. He is asked, how did he even get in here? This man gets tied up and thrown out.. into the place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There are people who don't have wedding clothes.

Rev 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

They are naked and they don't even know it. Some of them are lukewarm and Jesus is going to spit them out. He says they need to get clothes, where do you get them? Saks 5th Avenue? Nieman Marcus?

Rev 19:7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
Rev 19:8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Rev 19:9 Then he *said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he *said to me, "These are true words of God."

It says here, the bride has to "clothe herself". It says her clothes are "the righteous acts of the saints". These are the ones who get to stay for the marriage supper.

I wonder if you can get there without "righteous acts".

 

[B-A-C]

I know this goes against Calvinist teachings that we don't have to do anything, I don't agree with a lot of Roman Catholic doctrine, but I think this is one of the things the Roman Catholics get right.
Most Pentecostal-Holiness and Arminian denominations agree that we have to do something besides just believe.

James 2 says even the demons believe ... and shudder.

Really none of the verses posted above mention sin. Nobody broke any commandments in the passages above.
People just didn't do anything.

People will mention the thief on the cross and say he didn't do any works. I believe there is grace for those who are unable to do these things. Obviously, there are people who are mentally and physically handicapped. There are aged people who don't get around very good anymore, and there are people who accept Jesus on their death-bed ( like the thief )

But what about you? What's your excuse?

Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[Dave M]

Great post Ray one we need reminders of,

as we should see doing works as such a opportunity that is only offered for a very short time period compared to eternity, we should seize the opportunity while it last, one day we will give a account for our works out lack of.

Yes I believe that so many have a tinted view on works, seems a lot of people are afraid of it and I really think the message about saved by grace I can do nothing is received wrong by those who do not understand. It gives the suggestion that it is easy just say I believe and I am good.

Yes it is true we are saved by grace, as Ray has stated. We are saved for works, if you are born again you will get a new spirit and the Holy spirit will stir us and we will do serve others, and do works. I can testify to this in my life.

You know what Jesus said to every church in revelations every single one he starts off by I know your works, if works is not a important part of being born again, why does he address it and then tell them to correct because most fall short.

Works is proof we saved, evidence, and the reason we do the works is VERY important it is to please God almighty !! He is so gracious and loving he in return he gives us such fulfillment in actually doing the works nothing could replace it. I know sometimes when I cam called to do something I do not feel like, but 100% of the time after I do, I am so joyful and fulfilled and glad I do it,,, I 100% believe it a key to spiritual growth.

the below verse can be so easily applied to the American church and most so called Christian, IMO

Revelation 3:15-16​

“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

 

[Dave M]

I know this goes against Calvinist teachings that we don't have to do anything, I don't agree with a lot of Roman Catholic doctrine, but I think this is one of the things the Roman Catholics get right

It all about why we do things, that is important

 

[Sue J Love]

The dreaded works doctrine.

The Bible says we are not saved by works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

You rarely hear verse 10 above quoted with the other two, I sometimes wonder why?
However, the Bible also says...

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

So then which is it? Works or no works? I believe there is a before and after. Before you are saved, there is nothing you can do to get saved except have faith.
However, once you have been saved, there should be an evidence of this after a period of time.

Matt 25:14 "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
Matt 25:15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Matt 25:16 "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
Matt 25:17 "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
Matt 25:18 "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Matt 25:19 "Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
Matt 25:20 "The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
Matt 25:21 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:22 "Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
Matt 25:23 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:24 "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There were three slaves in the masters house. He gave talents or gifts to all of them. He told two of them, "well done". But the third one, he called wicked and lazy.
He has that slave thrown out, into that place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This slave didn't do anything wrong really. It doesn't say he committed any sins. The only thing the master had against him was... he didn't do anything at all.

... another story from Matt 25.

Matt 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
Matt 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
Matt 25:33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
Matt 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Matt 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Matt 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Matt 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
Matt 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Matt 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Matt 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Matt 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matt 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Matt 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Matt 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

We all know the story. The sheep and the goats. Verse 31 says Jesus will be sitting on His throne. Then He will separate people
He doesn't separate them by what they say they believe. He separates them by what they have done... or didn't do as the case may be.
The people who helped the needy go to eternal life. The other group, again, they didn't really do any big sins or anything. They just didn't do anything at all.
It says these people will go to eternal punishment.

Luke 13:6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

If Jesus is the true vine, and no tree can bear fruit without Him, why would He come expecting to find fruit on this tree? He gave the tree three years ( four actually )
But it seems some trees, even with Jesus fertilizing them and watering them... they refuse to bear fruit. These trees get cut down.

Matt 22:10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12 and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Many are called, but few are chosen. Why? Why aren't some chosen? It's interesting the wedding hall had both "evil and good" people here.
But there was a man who didn't have wedding clothes. He is asked, how did he even get in here? This man gets tied up and thrown out.. into the place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There are people who don't have wedding clothes.

Rev 3:16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

They are naked and they don't even know it. Some of them are lukewarm and Jesus is going to spit them out. He says they need to get clothes, where do you get them? Saks 5th Avenue?

Rev 19:7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
Rev 19:8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Rev 19:9 Then he *said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he *said to me, "These are true words of God."

It says here, the bride has to "clothe herself". It says her clothes are "the righteous acts of the saints". These are the ones who get to stay for the marriage supper.

I wonder if you can get there without "righteous acts".

Oh, amen and amen to this B-A-C. Very well stated. And I am so glad that you included Ephesians 2:10 with verses 8-9. So many people are leaving out verse 10 to try to prove they don't have to do anything. But Jesus said if we are going to come after him that we must deny self, die daily to sin (our daily walk of faith empowered by God), and follow him in walks of obedience to his commands. And Paul taught that if sin is what we practice, and not obedience to our Lord and to his commands, that we will not inherit eternal life with God. And John said that if we say that we are in fellowship with God, but while we walk in darkness (live in sin, sinful lifestyles), we are liars. And if we claim that we know God, but while we do not obey his commandments (in practice), we are liars. So thank you for speaking the truth in love here knowing full well that you will probably be opposed by those who follow a different belief system. God bless you! Sue Love

See Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23; Romans 6:1-23; Galatians 5:16-24; John 10:27-30; Titus 2:11-14; Ephesians 4:17-24, 1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10, et al.

 

[Curtis]

Faith without "works" is like a building contractor who builds things (faith), but has never been given a work (a task) to perform.

Faith must be given a task (a work) to perform or it is dead (stays idle) being alone.

The mountain will not be removed unless someone "speaks" to the mountain giving his "faith" a "work" to perform.

 

[B-A-C]

Faith must be given a task (a work) to perform

Yes, so it seems.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:9 By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;
Heb 11:11 By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
Heb 11:18 it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED."
Heb 11:19 He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king's edict.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
Heb 11:25 choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin,
Heb 11:31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.

Faith caused an action... "by faith" they did something.

Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

1Pet 1:6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1Pet 1:7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1Thes 1:3 constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,