Universalism

[Chad]

Universalism
Universalism is the teaching that all people will be saved. Some say that it is through the atonement of Jesus that all will ultimately be reconciled to God. Others just say that all will go to heaven sooner or later, whether or not they have trusted in or rejected Jesus as savior during their lifetime. This universal redemption will be realized in the future where God will bring all people to repentance. This repentance can happen while a person lives or after he has died and lived again in the millennium (as some "Christian universalists" claim) or some future state. Additionally, a few universalists even maintain that Satan and all demons will likewise be reconciled to God.

Nevertheless, both facets of universalistic belief are in serious error. People will suffer eternal damnation (Rev. 14:11) and the demonic forces have no redeemer. But, in my opinion, though universalism is a grave error, holding to the idea that all will be saved in itself does not automatically make someone a non-Christian.

However, there are those within the universalist camp (who claim to be Christian) who also deny the doctrine of the Trinity and, thereby, the incarnation of the Word of God as God the Son. They also deny the personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit. Usually, these denials are held by Unitarian Universalists, though others who are not of the Universalist camp also deny the Trinity. Those who deny these essentials cannot be classified as Christians.

To deny the deity of Christ, is to deny one of the essential doctrines of salvation. In this sense, those universalists who deny the deity of Christ are in a false religious belief system. Of course, when one essential doctrine is denied, many other historic biblical doctrines are also denied and salvation is void because the object of faith is false.

There is no official "Universal Salvation Church" denomination but there is a Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA). The UUA can be classified as non-Christian because it denies the deity of Christ, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, etc. It is not possible to categorize all of universalists into one tidy doctrinal category. Its adherents vary in belief. Some are Arian (God is one person, Jesus is a creation). Some are Trinitarian. Others even lean toward new age concepts of man's divinity.

So, universalism is not really a doctrine that identifies a group. Rather, it is a doctrine of different, even contradictory groups, who all claim universalism.

The problem with words

The cults are particularly guilty of using biblical words with non-biblical definitions. This is absolutely necessary among them in order to maintain some sort of internal consistency of theology. So too, with many universalists. Hell can mean non-existence, after-life consciousness, or this present life on earth. Some universalists believe that all punishment is accomplished here on earth, while others believe it is future event with a loss of rewards, and not a physical punishment. The punishment in both groups is corrective and limited. It will last only as long, and only be as severe, as it takes to accomplish its corrective purpose, which is to bring all mankind to a state of holiness and happiness in obedience to God. Of course, the problem with this is that it strongly suggests that a person is made worthy to be with God through his own sufferings and corrections in the afterlife.

In universalism, the word "eternal" means "without end" when it comes to salvation, but not when referring to damnation, even though the same word is used for both and in the same context (Matt. 25:46). Universalists divide history and the future into different "eons" or "ages" and assert that punishment is "age-lasting," not eternal. The term "Son of God" is claimed by all groups as an accurate description of Jesus, yet to some it means a created being and to others it means God in flesh. Therefore, determining which belief is held by which universalist is often difficult and it requires digging.

Misrepresentation

Universalists often use the most negative terms to represent historic positions they disagree with. For example, regarding the damnation of the unsaved, instead of saying that historic Christianity teaches that those who reject Christ will suffer eternal damnation, they frequently say that historic Christianity teaches that "God can't save everyone and wants to torture most of humanity forever." Or, it is often implied that God will not torture people forever because "God is not sadistic enough to send people to hell." Such emotionally slanted words reveal a hostile bias against historic doctrines and is an unfair description of those beliefs. It is a surprisingly common tactic among universalists which demonstrates their lack of objectivity and sheds an automatic cloud of doubt upon their observations.

Conclusion

As you can see, universalism covers a wide range of beliefs. Though belief in universalism, in and of itself, does not automatically void salvation, it has the potential danger of allowing false teachers to abide alongside true believers as well as deny basic Christian teaching such as eternal damnation. Therefore, to determine if a universalist is Christian, you must delve further into other areas of his belief system.

Article: carm.org

 

[amanda123]

Is it right that universalism says even satan will go to heaven.

I've heeard lots of worrying things about this cult.

 

[amanda123]

Does anyone have any more infornmation. This seenms a dangerous cult getting into the churches, forums. And seems to be saying satan is going to heven

 

[dannibear]

I am actually not quite sure about that one. According to various websites, the belief is that everyone will go to Heaven know matter what they believe and no matter what they do. I don't even know why they would recognize a being like satan exists if they believe Heaven is everyone's fate.

 

[Eddy Fire]

beware

I am actually not quite sure about that one. According to various websites, the belief is that everyone will go to Heaven know matter what they believe and no matter what they do. I don't even know why they would recognize a being like satan exists if they believe Heaven is everyone's fate.

Beware of the universalist
very slippery
forked tongue style
they like to major on words like "olam or aion" and pretend their knowledge of Greek and scripture is better than everyone else's
they lure people on the fly
much like one member here does, here and at other forums
beware

there are plenty of links online about the subject if you really must find out more
you have one in your camp
he appears to think he is a sort of online high priest of universalism
and everything else scriptural
if you read his posts

beware
from Chad's post above
"a few universalists even maintain that Satan and all demons will likewise be reconciled to God. "
they will attempt to con you
as in convince you that you are miss guided
that you have been brought up to believe the wrong truth
using intellectual lies

beware

it is pointless trying to debate with them
like all cults and deceivers
there is nothing you can do about it
beware

 

[dannibear]

you have one in your camp
he appears to think he is a sort of online high priest of universalism
and everything else scriptural
if you read his posts

Who is this you speak of?

 

[Eddy Fire]

wisdom and caution required

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:24-30

lest ye root up also the wheat with them
is it harvest time?
a weed free field would be very nice
but the householder needs to think of the price

gladly be free from weeds
what the forum needs
but a clean field
may also have a lesser yield
according to the influence and how deep and strong the familiar roots are fixed

a common universalist phrase is
there is nothing you can do about it

and then there is those words
olam and aion

happy fishing

 

[amanda123]

Why is theperson allowed to be here if they are universlisyt
Isn't that wrong

 

[dannibear]

Why is theperson allowed to be here if they are universlisyt
Isn't that wrong

No. The rules do not say someone with a different belief can't be here. They cannot teach the doctrine but they are just as welcome here as anyone else.

 

[B-A-C]

I was talking with a confessed Universalist earlier. It's funny how certain doctrines are built.
The key verses here appear to be...

1Co 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
In Universalism, this has already happened 2,000 years ago.

Eph 1:20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
In Univeralism, Christ literally is ALL IN ALL, not just those who are believing Christians.

1 Jn 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world
Univeralists believe Christ's resurrection wasn't just for those who believe, but for the whole world.

Obviously when these verses are taken context it's easy to see the error of Universalists here.

 

[amanda123]

It seems like the scriptures are totally changed to suit the religion of universalism but suttly too. If they believe the devil will be reconcoled and go to heaven this has to be vey wrong,

And if there are universalists on this forum postingand known to the staff then that makes Talk Jesus feel unsafe cos of wolves in sheeps clothes.and a religious. Sect that allows the devil to be saved can only be a dangerous lie.

 

[rizen1]

And if there are universalists on this forum postingand known to the staff then that makes Talk Jesus feel unsafe cos of wolves in sheeps clothes.and a religious. Sect that allows the devil to be saved can only be a dangerous lie.

There's no conspiracy on this forum I can assure you.
Please keep in mind this is a public forum, we are unable to do biometrics and background checks. Eventually the troublemakers expose themselves or responsible members use the report bottom to inform us, resulting in ban membership.

 

[amanda123]

Thanx rizen1 yes I am glad rthat you would weed them out. I have heard they infiltrate. Places like thos. There inclusion of the devil in Salvations plan ois wron and for that to be acceptable on the forum wud be wrong.

Because they praech that all willbe reconsiledn then many are decieved into believing they don't need to be saved or thayt they can continue to sin when saved.

One of the most dangerous cults I would say cos theu hide under the prtence of being Christian

 

[eldon]

La Vontae Kendricks

God's word is ordered in a particular way that we are supposed to understand, very important changes occur in the bible, if we're not aware of them we will not have a clear understanding on what is being said.

The Apostle Paul address the need of knowing this when he tells timothy, study to show thyself approved unto God a workman who needth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.

Here God is saying that there are divisions in his word and we will and ought to be ashamed if we do not know them. What are these divisions about and why are they important to know.

Paul gives more detail on right division in the book of the ephesians where he describes a great dispensational change that occurred, this change is related to what God was doing in his overall plan with humanity and people's relationship with God. paul recalls the position of Gentiles before this change occurred. Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Paul is speaking about the position of Gentiles in "times past". God's plan and purpose or in other words his program in "times past" was to work solely through the nation of israel the people called the jew. Paul mentions some major differences between the Jews and Gentiles during "time past".

First the Gentiles we're separated by being called the uncircumcision while those of israel were called the circumcision. God covenanted with Abraham that his dealings would be through Abraham's seed God told Abraham that circumcision was a token betwixt "me and you". (genesis 17:11)

The uncircumcised position of the Gentiles we're outside of God plan and program, next paul makes the point that Gentiles were without Chtist. The earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ occurred in israel's "times past" program. Jesus was, as Paul said a minister to the circumcision, (romans 15:8) Christ came to save only israel and not the Gentiles.

Christ said I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house israel (Matthew 15:24) Jesus came only as israel's Christ leaving gentiles truly far off and without Christ. Paul goes on to say that the gentiles where aliens and strangers showing that we had no relationship whatsoever with God, israel had the unique position of being nigh unto God.

Not only were the gentiles uncircumcised, aliens and strangers they were also without hope. The status of gentiles was never expected to change in God's program with israel even in the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant, where the world is blessed only through the nation of israel. Finally paul bluntly states that the gentiles were without God in the world, this explains how extremely gentiles were far off in "times past". Paul continues to say: Ephesians 2:13-14 KJV

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

In "times past" there was a middle wall of partition between israel and the gentiles, this wall of partition was the law covenant God made with the nation of israel that marked God's exclusive relationship with them. All the books of the bible from genesis to opening chapters of the book of Acts deals only with Gods plan and program for the nation of israel. The information contained in those books are to and for israel under covenant grounds.

Notice the change that occurred from the gentiles far off position in "times past" to their BUT NOW position being made nigh by the blood of Christ. Not until this dispensational change did God reveal that Christ died as a sacrifice for all people. God brought in a new dispensation of His grace and longsuffering through which he might reconcile both Jew and gentile unto God in one body by the finished work of the cross.

Today both Jew and gentiles are forming a new creation, the one new man the church the body of Christ.

Accordingly God set apart books of the bible specifically to for and about this present dispensation of grace, those books are the epistles of the apostle paul romans - philemon.
These books contain information for the edification of saints today.

However this does not mean that saints today are not to read and understand the books that pertain to israel's "times past" program. Paul says that whatsoever things were written afore time was written for our learning. (romans 15:4) Genesis through Acts 8 are for saints today to learn God's character and his distinct program with the nation of israel, we're to understand how to rightly divide between what was written to israel from what was written to believer's today.

This is what paul meant when he told timothy to rightly dividing the word of truth. But this dispensation is only temporary and God will resume and finish his program with the nation of israel in "ages to come"

The books of Hebrews through revelation pertain to this future time when Christ will return and have his day of wrath, so that he may establish his kingdomh hebrews through revelation are also to and for the nation of israel and not for saints in this present dispensation.

Therefore it is important to recognize the change in God's plan and program and the positional change for jews and gentiles. A believer today, should be as a workmen who needth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

this is one example of universalism among believers who have never had God talk to them(because they didn't get saved most likely) and how it creeps in, in the form of the dispensation.

Then you take the verse that says "Many are called but few are chosen"
and make that sound like only those whom Jesus calls get saved.
nonsense.
you can win anyone over to the Lord if you ask Him how to do it.
but you'd win more over to the Lord if you ask Him what to do. (He is more effective at finding people who will listen to you)

Another part of universalism is when you apply this particular most heretical teaching:
that at the great white throne judgement, everyone finds out their sins are forgiven.

I had been deceived for a time into thinking hell wasn't eternal, the idea that in hell you would be "unmade" and basically annihilated.
God pointed that out to me the other day and said "DO NOT EVER SAY THAT AGAIN"

 

[amanda123]

Thanx Eldon

Yes I think ots a verybad cult of 'religious people' who deceive others.

Why are they allowed to be here. They are only sowing lies.

They should not be on a forum like this.
Yhanks again Eldon

 

[dannibear]

Why are they allowed to be here. They are only sowing lies.

Anyone is allowed to be here. The prostitute. The drunkard. The liar. The selfish. The deceived. The atheist. The pagan. The universalist. This forum is for those who are serious Christians and those seeking Jesus Christ.
We weed out the ones that spread false doctrines here, but anyone is allowed here to learn the Truth of Jesus' salvation.
Mark 2:16-17
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” On hearing this, Jesus said to them,“It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

 

[DHC]

Anyone is allowed to be here. The prostitute. The drunkard. The liar. The selfish. The deceived. The atheist. The pagan. The universalist. This forum is for those who are serious Christians and those seeking Jesus Christ.
We weed out the ones that spread false doctrines here, but anyone is allowed here to learn the Truth of Jesus' salvation.
Mark 2:16-17
When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” On hearing this, Jesus said to them,“It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Well said dannibear.

Here is one of the lines that a believer in universalism would favor;

1 Timothy 4
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed
our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Notice Paul says "the savior of all men".

To believe in universalism is to push the atonement to the extreme.

God's love for the lost is so deep He does not permit them to be
eternally lost.

Can we burn the heretics now dannibear.

 

[Eddy Fire]

Here is one of the lines that a believer in universalism would favor;

1 Timothy 4
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed
our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Notice Paul says "the savior of all men".

To believe in universalism is to push the atonement to the extreme.

God's love for the lost is so deep He does not permit them to be
eternally lost.

Forgiveness is of God
even seventy seven sevens
even David
even for all those that believe
as the Scriptures state
over
and over again

the idea presented here about one
and all
no favour
and while Mormons
Jews
Jehovah's witnesses
Catholics
Gnostics
and others
who use selected Scripture to suit themselves with

there are some movements that go unnoticed
many do not know
the manner in which things get sown
or twisted

like your quote above
a misrepresentation of the meaning
of the Gospel
which may be more clearly understood as

1Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men
(The Saviour of the world, the only deliverer, and no man comes to the Father any other way than by the Saviour),
specially
(the especially, the very Saviour of, the One and only specific and for the purpose of)
of those that believe.

and not with a universalist twang
to it

2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Psalm 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

---- please note: I am not attacking any one member here
I am answering a post and speaking generally about misrepresentations of Truth---

 

[Boanerges]

Universalism is universally wrong.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

It is plain not all will be saved. To argue otherwise is to take a pair of scissors to the Word of God and cut out all opposing scripture. That is foundation and the basis of most cults.