Were they saved. Holy spirit.

[the new justin]

Did the holy spirit exist before Jesus and was anyone able to be saved before Christ?
Since we cant be saved with out Christ how did they get saved before Jesus?

I havnt read the OT but can you tell me where it mentions the coming of Christ. Thanks.

BLESS!

 

[Faithful Son]

The Holy Spirit is God, and always existed.

Let me explain God to you.

There are three persons in God called God. All three are indivduals, each of them having their own unique personality and likings.
God is the Father, the Son(Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.

We know the Son's name because He came to earth as a baby, He was called Jesus(Yeshua).

The three Persons in God, stand unified as one, they are individuals, but they stand together in unity as one.

God always existed, will always exist, this includes the Holy Spirit. Jesus' birth was achieved through the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary was a virgin. So yes He existed.

God is most supreme and the ruler of all.
The way people were "saved" in the old testament was through belief in God. They had to believe in God, much like we are required to believe Jesus today.
The laws God gave (10 commandments) helped to strengthen this belief and sustain it.

It's not written to my knowledge how people were saved prior to Christ, the only thing that is logical is that they had to believe in God. Just God, period.

The prophecy of Jesus' birth is in the old testament, but this is the only thing I could find :

Isaiah 40:10-11

10Behold, the Lord GOD will come with might,
With His arm ruling for Him
Behold, His reward is with Him
And His recompense before Him.

11Like a shepherd He will tend His flock,
In His arm He will gather the lambs
And carry them in His bosom;
He will gently lead the nursing ewes.

 

[the new justin]

If the holy spirit always existed even before Christ than why did Jesus breath on all his deciples for them to recieve the holy spirit? Wasn't Jesus introducing them to the holy spirit?

How was it possible to be saved before Christ, when we cant approach the father because we are not pure enough? Now Jesus speaks on our behalf, but before they had no one to bear their sins, making them obviously not holy enough to enter the kingdom of god, or else why would Jesus have died on the cross for us if we could already be saved by just belief in God alone?

Thanks for the response Teraside but in still confused.:embarasse

 

[CliffS]

If the holy spirit always existed even before Christ than why did Jesus breath on all his deciples for them to recieve the holy spirit? Wasn't Jesus introducing them to the holy spirit?

Until Jesus delivered the Holy Spirit, it was external to us. God and man were comepletely separated in spirit.
Now the Holy Spirit lives within the hearts of those who love Jesus. The only repentance and connection was through ritual sacrifices,blood sacrifices.
The only sacrifice needed today is to sacrifice our will to his.

Now Jesus speaks on our behalf, but before they had no one to bear their sins, making them obviously not holy enough to enter the kingdom of god, or else why would Jesus have died on the cross for us if we could already be saved by just belief in God alone?

They had to make many offerings and sacrifices. Those all had to go through a preist. Many of those offerings and sacrifices are symbolic of Jesus and His dieing on the cross for our sins.

I havnt read the OT but can you tell me where it mentions the coming of Christ

There are several places that Jesus is predicted but none call him by name.
My personal favorite is:
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[sunshine307]

Justin, even though the Holy Spirit existed in OT times, it was only when Jesus died that the Holy Spirit was able to dwell in Christians. John 16: 7-11

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."

As you see from these verses one of the things the Holy Spirit would do is to convict men of their sins. It wasn't possible to be saved before Jesus died. He bore the sins of us all on the Cross.
We can now access God ourselves through prayer - prior to Jesus dying the people had to go through a priest. If you read Hebrews 9 it will help answer your questions.

v9 says " the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing."

Read the whole chapter though. In OT times before the veil of the temple was torn in two when Jesus died, the priest went once a year to offer sacrifices for the people, it was only after Jesus died, and the Holy Spirit came that we now have access to the Father ourselves.

 

[the new justin]

OK, now im confused. Cliffs is saying that before Jesus died we had to make ritual blood sacrafices to God through a priest and Sunshine is saying it wasn't possible to be saved before Christ died.

Now if it was the case that we had to make blood sacrafices to be saved before Christ came, I can see that and make sence out of it along with the 10 commandments. But if what sunshine is saying about not being able to be saved untill Jesus died, well that just doesn't seem fair to be condemed to an eternity in hell no matter what you did in your life. They didn't choose to be born in the days before Christ. Does that mean mosses wasn't saved? What would have been the point in praying and worshiping God if you were bound to go to hell?

I guess seeing that the holy spirit was external from us untill Jesus died, than does that mean we couldn't be saved without the holy spirit as well? Was the holy spirit useless out side the body?

Thanks for the quotes cliffs.

Peace and BLESS!

 

[sunshine307]

OK, now im confused. Cliffs is saying that before Jesus died we had to make ritual blood sacrafices to God through a priest and Sunshine is saying it wasn't possible to be saved before Christ died.
Now if it was the case that we had to make blood sacrafices to be saved before Christ came, I can see that and make sence out of it along with the 10 commandments. But if what sunshine is saying about not being able to be saved untill Jesus died, well that just doesn't seem fair to be condemed to an eternity in hell no matter what you did in your life. They didn't choose to be born in the days before Christ. Does that mean mosses wasn't saved? What would have been the point in praying and worshiping God if you were bound to go to hell?
I guess seeing that the holy spirit was external from us untill Jesus died, than does that mean we couldn't be saved without the holy spirit as well? Was the holy spirit useless out side the body?
Thanks for the quotes cliffs.
Peace and BLESS!

Sorry to confuse you justin :embarasse I meant that you couldn't be saved like we are today in OT times. I didn't mean they were all condemned to an eternity in hell, God knew those who believed in Him. In OT times the Holy Spirit wasn't "readily available" to everyone, like He is to us today.

 

[the new justin]

So sunhine, does that mean we are more holy or that we are better believers now that we have recieved the holy spirit? Was being saved BC the same as being saved now?

 

[sunshine307]

Now that we have the Holy Spirit living in us we have Him continually; to convict us when we sin, guide us, teach us.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." John 14 v 26

He is always with us. What a privilege that we have the Spirit of God living in us. A privilege OT believers didn't have. I like what a friend says "Having the Holy Spirit dwell in us doesn't make us better Christians, just better equipped ones."

 

[greyfeather]

I have found a scripture that seems to say the profhets in some way did have the Holy Ghost unless I am not understanding it in it's meaning.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[sunshine307]

Yes greyfeather, the prophets in the Old Testament spoke as the Holy Spirit came upon them. They didn't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them all the time like we do though.

 

[Chad]

Article from gotquestions.org

Question: "Who is the Holy Spirit?”

Answer: There are many misconceptions on the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put - the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a Person, a Being with a mind, emotions, and a will.

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8 “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10 we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.”

We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a Person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). The Holy Spirit makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third “Person” of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16,26; 15:26).

 

[CliffS]

So sunhine,does that mean we are more holy or that we are better believers now that we have recieved the holy spirit? Was being saved BC the same as being saved now?

Forgive me for jumping in here. I believe I can help,at least I hope I can.

Justin,. Saved simply means reserved to be in the presence of God for eternity.

The differance between then and now is that now we have a direct connection through the Holy Spirit.

Before one not had to repent(Turn away from the sin)but they had to take an offering to the preist to be sacrificed to pay for each act of sin. Then the preist would perform the ritual sacrifice and pronounce the person cleaned from their sin. Preist were the connection for the most part with God. The preist made and interprited laws and rules. There were those who had a direct connection with God at that time and those people communicated through the Holy Spirit. It visited them but did not as far as we can tell stay with them as it does today.

Those are the ones that the OT was penned by and the ones spoken about in scripture.

Today by the grace of God and the sacrifice of His Son we have a direct connection to God. When and if we accept Jesus as Lord and savour God places in our person his Holy Spirit. Before this was given to selected people. Today all that accept Jesus are given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit councels us, quides us, disiplines us, communicates with God for us. No more do we have to rely on ourselfves or ritual sacrifices by preists. We are able to discern the words ,spirit and truth of others.

Because Jesus ,once and for all payed for all sin as the sacrificial lamb, our personal high preist, without a spot or blemish(Sin or error) Old Testement sacrifices are no longer needed.

This has not made us any more holy but has changed the way we see and relate to God.

Instead of God being separate and distant from us He has become close and personal. God has come through the Holy Spirit to be with and amung us all the time. God is now not just our creator but our father.

It's GOOD when the one who has the keys to eternity wants us to call us sons and daughters and for us to call Him father.

 

[tootie]

Did the holy spirit exist before Jesus and was anyone able to be saved before Christ?
Since we cant be saved with out Christ how did they get saved before Jesus?
I havnt read the OT but can you tell me where it mentions the coming of Christ. Thanks.
BLESS!

its because Jesus was not hear yet there where in the O.T. times. remember they where under the law. killing cows or what ever they where killing for blood for there sins and if God did not like the Sacrafice they had to do tell they got it right . and if was right then God would forgive there sins.
and i think this is how they got saved in the o . t times and after the cross jesus said its Finished right. well that s when all the law was done away with and the new testment begain . remember the vail was rip in two and earth quake .

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Did the holy spirit exist before Jesus and was anyone able to be saved before Christ?
Since we cant be saved with out Christ how did they get saved before Jesus?

I havnt read the OT but can you tell me where it mentions the coming of Christ. Thanks.

BLESS!

Justin: You have to remember that Jesus is both God and man. As man, he was born about the year 4 B.C. But, as God (the Second Person of the Trinity) He is eternal, meaning He has no beginning and no ending.

In Philippians 2, Paul shows us that Jesus temporarily set aside all His powers and prerogatives as God, humbled Himself, and became fully human. When, as man, He did this, He was submitting Himself fully to God the Father ("...I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. -John 8:29b)."

There are quite a number of Old Testament prophesies and other Scriptures that point to the Messiah. One of them is PS 110, which was composed by King David when he was King of Israel. Its first verse says, "The Lord says to my lord, sit at my right hand...." Being King of Israel, David didn't have any human lords. The "lord" he refers to in small letters has to be Jesus being spoken to by God the Father.

Also, there is the "Suffering Servant" prophesy of Isaiah (Is 52:13-53:12). The sufferings described there are direct predictions of what would happen to Jesus on Calvary.


SLE

 

[the new justin]

OK, I think I got it ,but how did they know if their sacrafice was appropriate enough, BC, to be forgiven for their sins?
I mean the worse their sins, the bigger the animal? An animal per sin? Thats alot of sacrafices. What if they didnt own any animals to sacrafice? Who decided what was appropriate enough to be forgiven for sins?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

OK, I think I got it ,but how did they know if their sacrafice was appropriate enough, BC, to be forgiven for their sins?
I mean the worse their sins, the bigger the animal? An animal per sin? Thats alot of sacrafices. What if they didnt own any animals to sacrafice? Who decided what was appropriate enough to be forgiven for sins?

Justin,

God set forth the Old Testament requirements for forgiveness in Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. Get yourself an easy-to-read Bible like the New Living Translation and read those books for details on what sacrifices were required for what sins.

By setting forth the rules regarding atonement under the Law, God was telling them what was appropriate. When they followed the Law's directions and did so with a sincerely repentant heart, they were included among those whose forgiveness was purchased by Jesus' blood on Calvary.

Those blood sacrifices were a shadow (a dim picture) of the sacrifice that was coming in the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ (the Messiah).

SLE

 

[the new justin]

OK, thanks Ed. Now I got it. Thanks to all.