What do the ships in the sea, and those who are in them represent in the Revelation?

[StewardoftheMystery]

When you read the book of the Revelation you need to ask yourself, what does this imagery symbolize? So let’s look at what the ships and those who are on them symbolize in the Revelation.

We read ….

Revelation 18:11-19

King James Version

​

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.”

So the ships in this sea of iniquity are the merchants, and those who work for those merchants are like the sailors, and all those whose trade is by selling merchandise on the sea.

So with that knowledge go to

Revelation 8:8-9

King James Version

​

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”

If you don’t understand the symbolic language being used in the Revelation, then how will you know the signs of the times?

 

[PloughBoy]

When you read the book of the Revelation you need to ask yourself, what does this imagery symbolize? So let’s look at what the ships and those who are on them symbolize in the Revelation.

We read ….

Revelation 18:11-19​

​

King James Version​

​

​

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.”

So the ships in this sea of iniquity are the merchants, and those who work for those merchants are like the sailors, and all those whose trade is by selling merchandise on the sea.

So with that knowledge go to

Revelation 8:8-9​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”

If you don’t understand the symbolic language being used in the Revelation, then how will you know the signs of the times?

What is the 1st. rule in "Biblical Interpretation" before going into something else like "Speculations" and "Imaginations" and into any kind of "Eisegesis"?

Should give you your answer. especially if you are accustom to the history of "Commerce" and "supplies and demands".

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

It is important when studying the symbolic imagery found in the Revelation, that you search the scriptures to find out where the same type of language is being used by God to speak of spiritual things to come.

In this case we need to go to Ezekiel to see why the ships are singing, but later the sailors of the ships will be wailing, like in the Revelation.

Ezekiel 27

King James Version

​

27 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;
3 And say unto Tyrus, O thou that art situate at the entry of the sea, which art a merchant of the people for many isles, Thus saith the Lord God; O Tyrus, thou hast said, I am of perfect beauty.
4 Thy borders are in the midst of the seas, thy builders have perfected thy beauty.
5 They have made all thy ship boards of fir trees of Senir: they have taken cedars from Lebanon to make masts for thee.
6 Of the oaks of Bashan have they made thine oars; the company of the Ashurites have made thy benches of ivory, brought out of the isles of Chittim.
7 Fine linen with broidered work from Egypt was that which thou spreadest forth to be thy sail; blue and purple from the isles of Elishah was that which covered thee.
8 The inhabitants of Zidon and Arvad were thy mariners: thy wise men, O Tyrus, that were in thee, were thy pilots.
9 The ancients of Gebal and the wise men thereof were in thee thy calkers: all the ships of the sea with their mariners were in thee to occupy thy merchandise.
10 They of Persia and of Lud and of Phut were in thine army, thy men of war: they hanged the shield and helmet in thee; they set forth thy comeliness.
11 The men of Arvad with thine army were upon thy walls round about, and the Gammadims were in thy towers: they hanged their shields upon thy walls round about; they have made thy beauty perfect.
12 Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kind of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.
13 Javan, Tubal, and Meshech, they were thy merchants: they traded the persons of men and vessels of brass in thy market.
14 They of the house of Togarmah traded in thy fairs with horses and horsemen and mules.
15 The men of Dedan were thy merchants; many isles were the merchandise of thine hand: they brought thee for a present horns of ivory and ebony.
16 Syria was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of the wares of thy making: they occupied in thy fairs with emeralds, purple, and broidered work, and fine linen, and coral, and agate.
17 Judah, and the land of Israel, they were thy merchants: they traded in thy market wheat of Minnith, and Pannag, and honey, and oil, and balm.
18 Damascus was thy merchant in the multitude of the wares of thy making, for the multitude of all riches; in the wine of Helbon, and white wool.
19 Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market.
20 Dedan was thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.
21 Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they occupied with thee in lambs, and rams, and goats: in these were they thy merchants.
22 The merchants of Sheba and Raamah, they were thy merchants: they occupied in thy fairs with chief of all spices, and with all precious stones, and gold.
23 Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.
24 These were thy merchants in all sorts of things, in blue clothes, and broidered work, and in chests of rich apparel, bound with cords, and made of cedar, among thy merchandise.
25 The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.
26 Thy rowers have brought thee into great waters: the east wind hath broken thee in the midst of the seas.
27 Thy riches, and thy fairs, thy merchandise, thy mariners, and thy pilots, thy calkers, and the occupiers of thy merchandise, and all thy men of war, that are in thee, and in all thy company which is in the midst of thee, shall fall into the midst of the seas in the day of thy ruin.
28 The suburbs shall shake at the sound of the cry of thy pilots.
29 And all that handle the oar, the mariners, and all the pilots of the sea, shall come down from their ships, they shall stand upon the land;
30 And shall cause their voice to be heard against thee, and shall cry bitterly, and shall cast up dust upon their heads, they shall wallow themselves in the ashes:
31 And they shall make themselves utterly bald for thee, and gird them with sackcloth, and they shall weep for thee with bitterness of heart and bitter wailing.
32 And in their wailing they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and lament over thee, saying, What city is like Tyrus, like the destroyed in the midst of the sea?
33 When thy wares went forth out of the seas, thou filledst many people; thou didst enrich the kings of the earth with the multitude of thy riches and of thy merchandise.
34 In the time when thou shalt be broken by the seas in the depths of the waters thy merchandise and all thy company in the midst of thee shall fall.
35 All the inhabitants of the isles shall be astonished at thee, and their kings shall be sore afraid, they shall be troubled in their countenance.
36 The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt be any more.”

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

What is the 1st. rule in "Biblical Interpretation" before going into something else like "Speculations" and "Imaginations" and into any kind of "Eisegesis"?

Should give you your answer. especially if you are accustom to the history of "Commerce" and "supplies and demands".

Here is how the Holy Spirit teaches….

1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The clean beasts can not only rightly divide ( part the hoof) but they can also meditate on ( chew the cud) the words of God by way of the Holy Spirit.

But who has believed our report?

 

[PloughBoy]

Here is how the Holy Spirit teaches….

1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

None describes how the "ADVOCATED' The PARAKLETOS" teaches not any "can" explain what GOD does, But GOD! And The PARAKLETOS is A Person, the Third Part of "THE TRIUNE GOD" No one can "Explain GOD and instruct how he teaches. How can a mere mortal explain the Ways of GOD I would be. I said "I" not you But "I" would be a Fool to explains The ways of GOD! I would be.

I know me, better than any other human knows me.
And I Know My ways, are not His ways of understanding, And I Know he speaks to me through His Word in "Anthropomorphic Terms and words"

Isaiah 55 ASV
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Almost 50 years , with out fail through wars and wounds and face death many times that only A GOD could have kept, and Have felt The ANGEL who Had Protected and comfort me. and Been through "THE DARK NIGHT OF SOUL" for almost 3-5 years and Had A "Theophany" and "A BEATIFIC VISION" an a "Miraculous Conversion" I went through all this stuff and much more not even knowing what they were or even knew such things even existed, Until they happen and then define to me what they were in "Theological terms" by "Renown Theologians" of Accredit Authoritative Administrations. and at 1st. I didn't believe one word they said about me. And I thought these people are Crazy! And I am out of here! They told me go but you will be back, and Sunday and Sunday morning regular services cannot help you! You will be back and we tell what is going on, about you! I thought this counsel of The Presbyterians were nuts and had lost their minds! How could I know what was in the WORD of God and Had Never read it! Some thing ain't Right, I was on Fire! Every time I open my Mouth, The WORD of GOD was COMING OUT! I could not hold it in! I tried I tried to not say nothing about it, In the grocery store at the fruit market walking in the park no matter where I went, I was threaten to shut up! or I will beat the blank out of you, if you do not stop talking about God I kept on taking

I was not in a church, I CALLED MY MAMA, SOMETHING is WRONG WITH ME! Mama I am Fire and I cannot stop talking about GOD. she called her Pastors he said I told him he will be back! and I will tell him what is going on with Him and what he has to do! I kept asking what does these words mean coming into my Mind! Who is Timothy! I keep hearing these voices Go see Timothy and the voice say this I was quoting Scripture and never heard it or read it before and I did not know it was The Word of GOD!

1st. thing he said no one can teach you and regular Church services are not for you! and that is all I am going to say. he introduce me to a "Counsel of "Theologians" and Pastors and Ministers that was Know throughout out these United States of American, Graduates form "Harvard", Yale, Princeton, Virginia Union, From " Union Theological Seminary in New York" "D, D," "Th D's" what a ride, and with in 3 years I was doing "Lectures" and Preaching" to them in close sessions' while it normally took about 3 years to stand before them, every three years you might get a chance to stand before them, I was stranding before them 3 times a year by demand! "Lecturing and Preaching in Close sessions no regular christians were alowed.

Now figure that one out! Now can you imagine what a job like that did to me! in one month of my Conversion I had read the whole Bible word for word with dictionaries in the hands I said "dictionaries" Plural "Collegiate, Unabridged , Ungers, Zondervan , ISBE> VINES, BROWNS HEBREW< AND Thayer's Greek. hard copies we had no internet. over 3 times in one month.

I Was not familiar with none of this stuff. Got baptize around eight years old because I heard the kids choir singing during a Christmas celebrations, The teenage girl down the street had started picking up kids in the neighbor because she start teaching Sunday school and her mother bought her a new 1956 Ford which Was White and Blue. and in Sunday School the kid who brought the most money won a prize in decorative Glass ware like big fancy Candy bowls I won most of the time, I always put the most money in and after Sunday school your parents would let you go to The Movie theater to see 3 Matinees never went to a church regular services to hear preaching and my father told me when I got to be 12 years old I can stop going to Sunday school if I wanted. At 12 years old I stop. Then about 15 the Methodist female Pastor's Son got saved and he Started a Baptist Store front Church in The Neighborhood. and got a lot of kids in the neighborhood and there parents, and the His wife started A Youth Choir and we went around to a lot of places singing! then here we go, I stared singing solo , Just automatic step up over, right in when a soloist stop sining right in the middle of The service and couldn't stop, The people where crying and I did know why, But somehow I knew the words" "I am A WITNESS For My LORD My SOUl is A WITNESS for My LORD" I never been to Heaven, But I been Told , That the Gates are Pearly, and The Streets are Gold"

They had me singing that song everywhere, people would call my mother and tell her to send me to their house and sing that song, My grandmother house, My aunt's house, The Methodist female Pastors house , she would invite people over and call my mother for me to sing that song and she would be crying and I never knew why these people were crying. In High School choir the same thing would happen by mistake. and many neighbors would hear me sing and then come and hear me preach when I stared preaching at 26 years of age, and they would say I never knew that was in you. and then some would say I knew it was in you when you didn't.

I learn a lot when I studied "Theology Proper" and by reading Many Biographies of the Reformers and Puritans and Church History from the Church fathers on up, even all the way up to The Great Awaking to "G Campbell Morgan" to 'Martin Lloyd Jones".

I Never was interested in Preaching or teaching or Pastoring of leading in none of these things I always wanted to back out, but always was found up front.
in everything. I did more hiding that anything. and would be put on the spot and most of the time not on Program.

But I sure did like to Study and read Biographies an the word of God and God made that available for me.


New King James Version
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God,
New American Standard Bible
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God.

And that was all I care for. I wanted my studying to be approved to God and him only! I was happy right there!!!

and many do not understand that. I was nothing but dirt and my nickname was the n word before I could and was consider by these "USA" nothing but scum. and then one day at the age of 26 in 1977, I saw Jesus with tears in his eyes, and the power of God fell on me! On ME the no good N word that I have know all me life. The n In 1986 he introduce to the Father and what the Father said to me! who told you, you was a christian? and answered him those pagans over there in "Antioch" in the Book of Acts of the APOSTLES" AND THE HE SAID "WHAT DID I CALL YOU"! IN A STRONG VOICE AND ALL TIME STOP! "I Said: You Call Me Your Child"
and when i said that, my mind Met HIS MIND, it went like into a "Trillion Light Years" in Him in one moment.

and I have not been the same, receiving The Holy Ghost is Child play and knowing JESUS as My savior is Child play when he Introduce you to The FATHER NO WORDS of Thought can even come near of expressions. there are no human words for it.


New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

[Waggles]

If you don’t understand the symbolic language being used in the Revelation, then how will you know the signs of the times?

I do not think you know what the signs of the times are !!
nor have you provided any insight as to the meaning of chapter 18.
Your explanation is nonsensical.

Chapter 18 is about Rome and the destruction of Rome (most likely by a nuclear explosion).
Rome is
Rev 18:2 And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.
3 For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”

Rome will be nuked and burn as prophesied as judgement upon her wickedness and abominations.
Because nuclear explosions have not only devastating destruction there is also all the radiation fallout that will keep people away from ground zero.
Rev 18:8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
9 And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning.
10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”

The peoples of Europe will stand afar off and wail and weep over the destruction of Rome for this city is the history of European civilization and of her religious system.
Rome is the story of the "West" and the mother of worldly Christian religion.
The merchants of the earth represent the symbiotic economic relationship that exists between the RCC (and her children) and worldly pursuits. That is Christians pursuing earthly treasures.

Rev 18:15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
16 “Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!
17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off
18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, “What city was like the great city?”
19 And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out, “Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! For in a single hour she has been laid waste.

Rome > Babylon the city > Mystery Babylon religion > mother of harlots

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I do not think you know what the signs of the times are !!
nor have you provided any insight as to the meaning of chapter 18.
Your explanation is nonsensical.

Chapter 18 is about Rome and the destruction of Rome (most likely by a nuclear explosion).
Rome is
Rev 18:2 And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.
3 For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”

Rome will be nuked and burn as prophesied as judgement upon her wickedness and abominations.
Because nuclear explosions have not only devastating destruction there is also all the radiation fallout that will keep people away from ground zero.
Rev 18:8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
9 And the kings of the earth, who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning.
10 They will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, “Alas! Alas! You great city, you mighty city, Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come.”

The peoples of Europe will stand afar off and wail and weep over the destruction of Rome for this city is the history of European civilization and of her religious system.
Rome is the story of the "West" and the mother of worldly Christian religion.
The merchants of the earth represent the symbiotic economic relationship that exists between the RCC (and her children) and worldly pursuits. That is Christians pursuing earthly treasures.

Rev 18:15 The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, in fear of her torment, weeping and mourning aloud,
16 “Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!
17 For in a single hour all this wealth has been laid waste.” And all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off
18 and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, “What city was like the great city?”
19 And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, crying out, “Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! For in a single hour she has been laid waste.

Rome > Babylon the city > Mystery Babylon religion > mother of harlots

My OP was not to explain all of Revelation chapter 18, just a small piece of the mystery about the merchants and ships.

I disagree that the fall of Mystery Babylon is Rome. The fall of Mystery Babylon is a global economic downfall. We know this because ALL the cities of the nations fall at that time.

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.”

Also concerning

Revelation 18:2

King James Version

​

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.”

Compare the wording to….

Jeremiah 5:27
As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.

So the fall of Babylon has to do with the fall of the biggest false idol system worshipped in the world, and that is the love of money and materialism.

It is the destruction of what God called the “cursed thing”, which also includes the judgment by fire upon all those who left their first love and coveted after the “cursed thing.”

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

None describes how the "ADVOCATED' The PARAKLETOS" teaches not any "can" explain what GOD does, But GOD! And The PARAKLETOS is A Person, the Third Part of "THE TRIUNE GOD" No one can "Explain GOD and instruct how he teaches. How can a mere mortal explain the Ways of GOD I would be. I said "I" not you But "I" would be a Fool to explains The ways of GOD! I would be.

I know me, better than any other human knows me.
And I Know My ways, are not His ways of understanding, And I Know he speaks to me through His Word in "Anthropomorphic Terms and words"

Isaiah 55 ASV
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.
9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Almost 50 years , with out fail through wars and wounds and face death many times that only A GOD could have kept, and Have felt The ANGEL who Had Protected and comfort me. and Been through "THE DARK NIGHT OF SOUL" for almost 3-5 years and Had A "Theophany" and "A BEATIFIC VISION" an a "Miraculous Conversion" I went through all this stuff and much more not even knowing what they were or even knew such things even existed, Until they happen and then define to me what they were in "Theological terms" by "Renown Theologians" of Accredit Authoritative Administrations. and at 1st. I didn't believe one word they said about me. And I thought these people are Crazy! And I am out of here! They told me go but you will be back, and Sunday and Sunday morning regular services cannot help you! You will be back and we tell what is going on, about you! I thought this counsel of The Presbyterians were nuts and had lost their minds! How could I know what was in the WORD of God and Had Never read it! Some thing ain't Right, I was on Fire! Every time I open my Mouth, The WORD of GOD was COMING OUT! I could not hold it in! I tried I tried to not say nothing about it, In the grocery store at the fruit market walking in the park no matter where I went, I was threaten to shut up! or I will beat the blank out of you, if you do not stop talking about God I kept on taking

I was not in a church, I CALLED MY MAMA, SOMETHING is WRONG WITH ME! Mama I am Fire and I cannot stop talking about GOD. she called her Pastors he said I told him he will be back! and I will tell him what is going on with Him and what he has to do! I kept asking what does these words mean coming into my Mind! Who is Timothy! I keep hearing these voices Go see Timothy and the voice say this I was quoting Scripture and never heard it or read it before and I did not know it was The Word of GOD!

1st. thing he said no one can teach you and regular Church services are not for you! and that is all I am going to say. he introduce me to a "Counsel of "Theologians" and Pastors and Ministers that was Know throughout out these United States of American, Graduates form "Harvard", Yale, Princeton, Virginia Union, From " Union Theological Seminary in New York" "D, D," "Th D's" what a ride, and with in 3 years I was doing "Lectures" and Preaching" to them in close sessions' while it normally took about 3 years to stand before them, every three years you might get a chance to stand before them, I was stranding before them 3 times a year by demand! "Lecturing and Preaching in Close sessions no regular christians were alowed.

Now figure that one out! Now can you imagine what a job like that did to me! in one month of my Conversion I had read the whole Bible word for word with dictionaries in the hands I said "dictionaries" Plural "Collegiate, Unabridged , Ungers, Zondervan , ISBE> VINES, BROWNS HEBREW< AND Thayer's Greek. hard copies we had no internet. over 3 times in one month.

I Was not familiar with none of this stuff. Got baptize around eight years old because I heard the kids choir singing during a Christmas celebrations, The teenage girl down the street had started picking up kids in the neighbor because she start teaching Sunday school and her mother bought her a new 1956 Ford which Was White and Blue. and in Sunday School the kid who brought the most money won a prize in decorative Glass ware like big fancy Candy bowls I won most of the time, I always put the most money in and after Sunday school your parents would let you go to The Movie theater to see 3 Matinees never went to a church regular services to hear preaching and my father told me when I got to be 12 years old I can stop going to Sunday school if I wanted. At 12 years old I stop. Then about 15 the Methodist female Pastor's Son got saved and he Started a Baptist Store front Church in The Neighborhood. and got a lot of kids in the neighborhood and there parents, and the His wife started A Youth Choir and we went around to a lot of places singing! then here we go, I stared singing solo , Just automatic step up over, right in when a soloist stop sining right in the middle of The service and couldn't stop, The people where crying and I did know why, But somehow I knew the words" "I am A WITNESS For My LORD My SOUl is A WITNESS for My LORD" I never been to Heaven, But I been Told , That the Gates are Pearly, and The Streets are Gold"

They had me singing that song everywhere, people would call my mother and tell her to send me to their house and sing that song, My grandmother house, My aunt's house, The Methodist female Pastors house , she would invite people over and call my mother for me to sing that song and she would be crying and I never knew why these people were crying. In High School choir the same thing would happen by mistake. and many neighbors would hear me sing and then come and hear me preach when I stared preaching at 26 years of age, and they would say I never knew that was in you. and then some would say I knew it was in you when you didn't.

I learn a lot when I studied "Theology Proper" and by reading Many Biographies of the Reformers and Puritans and Church History from the Church fathers on up, even all the way up to The Great Awaking to "G Campbell Morgan" to 'Martin Lloyd Jones".

I Never was interested in Preaching or teaching or Pastoring of leading in none of these things I always wanted to back out, but always was found up front.
in everything. I did more hiding that anything. and would be put on the spot and most of the time not on Program.

But I sure did like to Study and read Biographies an the word of God and God made that available for me.


New King James Version
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God,
New American Standard Bible
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God.

And that was all I care for. I wanted my studying to be approved to God and him only! I was happy right there!!!

and many do not understand that. I was nothing but dirt and my nickname was the n word before I could and was consider by these "USA" nothing but scum. and then one day at the age of 26 in 1977, I saw Jesus with tears in his eyes, and the power of God fell on me! On ME the no good N word that I have know all me life. The n In 1986 he introduce to the Father and what the Father said to me! who told you, you was a christian? and answered him those pagans over there in "Antioch" in the Book of Acts of the APOSTLES" AND THE HE SAID "WHAT DID I CALL YOU"! IN A STRONG VOICE AND ALL TIME STOP! "I Said: You Call Me Your Child"
and when i said that, my mind Met HIS MIND, it went like into a "Trillion Light Years" in Him in one moment.

and I have not been the same, receiving The Holy Ghost is Child play and knowing JESUS as My savior is Child play when he Introduce you to The FATHER NO WORDS of Thought can even come near of expressions. there are no human words for it.


New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.

I am a holy man too! I have holes in my shoes, holes in my socks, holes in my shirts, and holes in my shorts.

And as far as my worldly education goes, I dropped out of High school in the 11th grade to enter into, and be chastised by the school of hard knocks.

2 Corinthians 11:30
If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:5
Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am a holy man too! I have holes in my shoes, holes in my socks, holes in my shirts, and holes in my shorts.

And as far as my worldly education goes, I dropped out of High school in the 11th grade to enter into, and be chastised by the school of hard knocks.

2 Corinthians 11:30
If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:5
Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

your quote:
"I am a holy man too! I have holes in my shoes, holes in my socks, holes in my shirts, and holes in my shorts."



ok

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Zechariah 14:21
Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

Did you know the word Canaanite means “merchant”?

And what event really ticked Jesus off?

John 2:14-16

King James Version

​

14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

 

[PloughBoy]

Zechariah 14:21
Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

Did you know the word Canaanite means “merchant”?

And what event really ticked Jesus off?

John 2:14-16​

​

King James Version​

​

​

14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

well God must have made an error and should have taken instructions from you. But I thought God spoke the truth that The meaning on the word "Canaanites" meant that they are the people form The Land that the Bible called "Canaan".

"The Canaanites are best known from the biblical accounts that portray them as a hostile, pre-Israelite indigenous population residing in the “promised land” who were conquered by the tribes of Israel under the leadership of Joshua following their Exodus from Egypt.Mar 31, 2016"

Canaan was a Semitic-speaking civilization and region of the Southern Levant in the Ancient Near East during the late 2nd millennium BC. Wikipedia

But I guess, just maybe, Israel was smarter than God just like you.
In regard to the Canaanites, God commanded, “In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). The Israelites failed in this mission as well, and exactly what God said would happen occurred (Judges 2:1-3; 1 Kings 11:5; 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3-4). God did not order the extermination of these people to be cruel, but to prevent even greater evil from occurring in the future.

So Israel became more wicked than all of the nations, that God told them to destroy even unto this day.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

well God must have made an error and should have taken instructions from you. But I thought God spoke the truth that The meaning on the word "Canaanites" meant that they are the people form The Land that the Bible called "Canaan".

"The Canaanites are best known from the biblical accounts that portray them as a hostile, pre-Israelite indigenous population residing in the “promised land” who were conquered by the tribes of Israel under the leadership of Joshua following their Exodus from Egypt.Mar 31, 2016"

Canaan was a Semitic-speaking civilization and region of the Southern Levant in the Ancient Near East during the late 2nd millennium BC. Wikipedia

But I guess, just maybe, Israel was smarter than God just like you.
In regard to the Canaanites, God commanded, “In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). The Israelites failed in this mission as well, and exactly what God said would happen occurred (Judges 2:1-3; 1 Kings 11:5; 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3-4). God did not order the extermination of these people to be cruel, but to prevent even greater evil from occurring in the future.

So Israel became more wicked than all of the nations, that God told them to destroy even unto this day.

The words and names in the Bible have meanings, I’m not the one who made that decision.

 

[PloughBoy]

The words and names in the Bible have meanings, I’m not the one who made that decision.

I agree, and Our FATHER made it clear to us, and He did not have His writings written in a mystery or puzzle, but for us nothing But a "MYSTERION".

The word mysterion (μυστήριον) is used 27 times in the New Testament. It denotes not so much the meaning of the modern English term mystery, but rather something that is mystical. In the biblical Greek, the term refers to "that which awaits disclosure or interpretation".

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Strong’s Definitions
μυστήριον mystḗrion, moos-tay'-ree-on; from a derivative of μύω mýō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):—mystery.

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. hidden thing, secret, mystery
   1. generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals
   2. a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding
   3. a hidden purpose or counsel
      1. secret will
         1. of men
         2. of God: the secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which are hidden from ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

But I guess, just maybe, Israel was smarter than God just like you.
So Israel became more wicked than all of the nations, that God told them to destroy even unto this day.

I know, I know, you keep reminding us of how much you hate both Christians and Jews.

But Jesus did not say salvation is of the Canaanites. Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.

 

[lentz]

I agree, and Our FATHER made it clear to us, and He did not have His writings written in a mystery or puzzle, but for us nothing But a "MYSTERION".

The word mysterion (μυστήριον) is used 27 times in the New Testament. It denotes not so much the meaning of the modern English term mystery, but rather something that is mystical. In the biblical Greek, the term refers to "that which awaits disclosure or interpretation".

Huh i took it it that the mysteries paul mentions in epistles,that it was just something he never told old propphets. Silly me

 

[PloughBoy]

Huh i took it it that the mysteries paul mentions in epistles,that it was just something he never told old propphets. Silly me

We know more than that the old testament Prophets, It has been revealed to Us In Christ and still explained in "PAUL".He wrote most of the writings of The New Testament that Jesus did not explain and neither did the other "Apostles or disciples" knew about the Body of Christ and what many thing's that was to come and how to conduct themselves until The LORD comes back and What happen as even the death, "IN CHRIST" "IN CHRIST" and do not for forget what Jesus said To those "in Christ" even though those born of a woman there is not others greater than "JOHN the Baptist" but Those who are "BORN OF GOD" even the least of Them are "GREATER THAN John the Baptist"

So "LENTZ" you are greater than John the Baptist and all of those that was born of a women in the Old Testament and those coming out of The Great Tribulation and The Millennium For you have been "BORN of GOD" and that makes Us "Sons of the LIVING GOD" and we will Be THE MANFESTATION of THE GLORY of GOD throughout out ALL ETERNITY and the PEOPLE of GOD will say: There Goes "THE Sons of THE LIVING GOD! and "The People of God "will Rejoice at Our Appearance and they will Be brighten of Our Manifestation of HIS GLORY" for that is who we are "INDICATIVE" "For we are the ones Hidden in Christ Jesus" that was 'Hidden before "The Foundations of THE WORLD""

take note:
what the book has said and not man. and not the interpretations of man. [there has been those who died in the Old Testament and those who have died in Christ, and there will be those who will die in "Faith: going through "Great tribulations like the world have ever know and will ever know of such troubles. And there will be those who will die in "the Thousand year" reign of the Kingdom of God Reigning on earth, and it will not be by grace and mercy but "JUSTICE" how they will be saved even with a "IRON ROD" and we "The Sons of GOD" will Rule right beside our brother who is "THE Lord Jesus Christ" and we Are "The KINGDOM of KINGS and Priest" and He is "The KING of Kings" and we are The latter part of "The King of Kings": for we are "The Kingdom Of KINGS" for that is who, we are "Indicative" and not The people of GOD we are the Sons.

for this many cannot believe this, they are only a believers of "Tongues" and Churches and Christianity, with Betty Crocker and Emily Posts, Mentalities and being nice and Kind and christian principles trying to make this corrupted world, better for GOD and trying to win Satan over to Christ who Jesus Christ is Also The devils creator and LORD! They the The demons even obey's Jesus their LORD.\

And many think they have completed their christians duties than many imagine or feel they are ready to go to The retirement home in Heaven and sit down in a rocking Chair and rock back and forth and be happy. But not knowing it will be much much more than even the creatures in heaven could even Know what lies before us . what GOD has Inspired for Us through All eternity that the Old heaven with Not Exists. The One The devil and all of the demons where kicked out of, .will be long gone and not even remember that such a place even existed.


NASB 1977
And behold, they cried out, saying, “What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”
Matthew 8: BSB
…29“What do You want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have You come here to torture us before the appointed time?” 30 In the distance a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31So the demons begged Jesus, “If You drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”…

The demons and the devil obeys Jesus, But Man and the woman will not. It is by grace are we saved and not of ourselves.

Now, can not our Hearts, not only but cries. Because of His Goodness he has shared. Does not this pain gives us some kind of despair, dying for someone like us. "mercy and Grace' and then Giving us A "FULL SHARED INHERITANCE of it all so, far beyond the Corrupted Earth And UNIVERSE and Heaven, that eyes have not seen nor anything entered to the heart of all mankind neither can they imagine what God Has prepared for us, and not for the people of this world. But us the FEW and not The majority. Not the people of God But "The Sons of The LIVING GOD" and we will rule with The only SON of GOD throughout ALL Eternity that has No end.

The nominal christians and all christianity cannot go in mind and imagination what Our God has revealed to us. The finite mind, cannot go there, for it has not the Ability to do so,

Rejoice because your names were written before The Foundations of the world. Your named were written before you receive The HOLY GHOST Your names were written DOWN Before You were Born and Came out of your Mother's =Womb.

 

[PloughBoy]

I know, I know, you keep reminding us of how much you hate both Christians and Jews.

But Jesus did not say salvation is of the Canaanites. Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.

New American Standard Bible
And in your seed All The Nations Of The Earth Shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”


Weymouth New Testament
For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

New American Standard Bible
And in your seed All The Nations Of The Earth Shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”


Weymouth New Testament
For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

Zechariah 14:21
Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.”

Soooo like I said earlier, names have meanings. This verse must have a deeper spiritual meaning for all scripture to be true. And the key to understanding this mystery is found in the meaning of the name Canaanite, which means “merchant”.

By the way, “common sense” is not the same as godly sense. That which is commonly accepted and highly esteemed among men is often an abomination to the Lord.