What do you say, If I say "He led captivity captivated instead of He led captivity captive"

[PloughBoy]

Psalm 68:18
Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

(Ephesians 4)
New King James Version
Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
New American Standard Bible
Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE THE CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO PEOPLE.”

(Acts 1:11)
King James Bible
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
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[and when he ascended on high, HE led captivity captivated, and He gave gifts to men]......or [he led the captives captivated and gave gift to men]

etymology could be in play here.

If the whole world is "held" in the "bondage of sin" held down by the deception of "The Adversary" and the corrupted body of flesh. That person is a captive. For a man or woman is still in "bondage" and the only way a person can be set free, that person have to become a new creature. The Only freedom one can have, is to become a "child of GOD" a person that has been "Born of GOD" a "Spiritual Birth". A New Birth.

Can you imagine, standing their and watching a man float and disappear into the clouds. That would be a "captivating" experience for a person in the "bondage of sin". by any natural human being, and especially a unregenerated creature. For which they were at that time, when they observed Jesus dis-appearing into the clouds.

Now what say you? and Considering The "Etymology" of words.

PS Now this is what you can call a sound "Theological Argument".

 

[Garee]

Psalm 68:18
Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

(Ephesians 4)
New King James Version
Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
New American Standard Bible
Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE THE CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO PEOPLE.”

(Acts 1:11)
King James Bible
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[and when he ascended on high, HE led captivity captivated, and He gave gifts to men]......or [he led the captives captivated and gave gift to men]

etymology could be in play here.

If the whole world is "held" in the "bondage of sin" held down by the deception of "The Adversary" and the corrupted body of flesh. That person is a captive. For a man or woman is still in "bondage" and the only way a person can be set free, that person have to become a new creature. The Only freedom one can have, is to become a "child of GOD" a person that has been "Born of GOD" a "Spiritual Birth". A New Birth.

Can you imagine, standing their and watching a man float and disappear into the clouds. That would be a "captivating" experience for a person in the "bondage of sin". by any natural human being, and especially a unregenerated creature. For which they were at that time, when they observed Jesus dis-appearing into the clouds.

Now what say you? and Considering The "Etymology" of words.

PS Now this is what you can call a sound "Theological Argument".

The captivity are the born again believers. We are held captive by his great love that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. He is our city of refuge. our strong tower .

I would say we do not know Christ after the flesh of the Son of man, Jesus the chief apostle . Jesus said ;Not as I will but as you father.

God is not a man as us . it was Christ working in him to both will and perform His god pleasure as a one time promised outward demonstration.(Isaiah 53) When he left he left a clear warning .

In that way faith the power of God by which we can believe comes by hearing as it is written .And not by observing the temporal corrupted things seen.

2 Corinthians 5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That would be a "captivating" experience for a person in the "bondage of sin". by any natural human being, and especially a unregenerated creature. For which they were at that time, when they observed Jesus dis-appearing into the clouds.

Except that they had been regenerated as documented in John 20:22 when they received the Holy Spirit, that opened their understantding (luke 24:45).

 

[PloughBoy]

The captivity are the born again believers. We are held captive by his great love that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. He is our city of refuge. our strong tower .

I would say we do not know Christ after the flesh of the Son of man, Jesus the chief apostle . Jesus said ;Not as I will but as you father.

God is not a man as us . it was Christ working in him to both will and perform His god pleasure as a one time promised outward demonstration.(Isaiah 53) When he left he left a clear warning .

In that way faith the power of God by which we can believe comes by hearing as it is written .And not by observing the temporal corrupted things seen.

2 Corinthians 5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

sad

 

[PloughBoy]

Except that they had been regenerated as documented in John 20:22 when they received the Holy Spirit, that opened their understantding (luke 24:45).

How could, they be "regenerated" in "John 20:22". There cannot be a "New Testament" until there have been "The death" of "The Tester" sad.

New King James Version
For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
New American Standard Bible
For a covenant is valid only when people are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.

Talking about sad. For the faith of many has grown 'cold'. And "The TRUTH" lies prostrate in the street.
(Isaiah 59)KJV
"For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment."

For many grow in happiness for the things they love. And there are "few" who grow in "Grief and Sadness" and they are the ones, who are despise.

American Standard Version
"And unto them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall in no wise perceive:" [many will read and think they understand]

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How could, they be "regenerated" in "John 20:22". There cannot be a "New Testament" until there have been "The death" of "The Tester" sad.

Psst!! John 20:22, and Luke 24:45 are three days after the "Death of the Testator". Funny you wouldn't know that - it was the evening of the Resurrection.

 

[PloughBoy]

Psst!! John 20:22, and Luke 24:45 are three days after the "Death of the Testator". Funny you wouldn't know that - it was the evening of the Resurrection.

And it is funny that you don't know that Jesus had to ascend to the Father 1st and then send "The Holy Ghost", back. You need to read The book of Acts of the Apostles" and you are the smart one. LOL! A deceiver is something else. The more a deceiver deceives the more they are deceive. And GOD the Father, deceives the deceiver. "God Is Not Mock"! And HE ain't no FOOL! But many think HE IS! And HE ain't no human being! He don't play! GOD ain't no "Barbie Doll" And He ain't no Chump either. Many are going to find out! GOD is A GOD! He ain't a creature! And He don't take wooden nickels.

and a lot of People do not even Fear HIM! and He Hate Liars! He is angrily with the wicked everyday! And he is not into "Antinomianism", but many Christians think he is.
King James Bible
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

you right i am funny! I see, you do not know to much about "Atonement"! Go ahead "Google" , like you do everything else. Well Lord I google it. Google taught me. LOL! How did you get save, I google it. LOL! "Pastor Google" doing a lot preaching, and teaching the word of GOD.. We don't need anymore local churches we got "Rev.Google", doing the evangelistic work. If the WORD of GOD is in you, you do not have to look no where. You do not have to Look in John, in Luke, in Matthew. It is in you, if down threw the years you been reading it, every word is in you! I have been reading the bible for over 44 years, All that time, If i don't know what is in it, systematically now,
Something is wrong. That even sound right, go look it up! I don't have to read nothing in the Bible for the rest of my life. For it is in me! Written on The Tables of MY HEART! I don' t play Bible because The WORD ain't no toy! For The WORD was with GOD in The BEGINNING. and THE WORD has always been with HIM. AND IT LIVES IN ME!

like I Have said to many, i ain't no christian. I am A "Child of The LIVING GOD" I am different. "For greater is HE that is in Me than he that is in the world!" I am different! So you cannot figure me out, on your best day! To you, i am as the filth of the earth. and a foolish creature. and don't have a bit of sense. an uncanny creature.

"We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

And it is funny that you don't know that Jesus had to ascend to the Father 1st and then send "The Holy Ghost", back.

Which He apparently did AFTER his meeting with the gals, since they couldn't touch Him - yet, since He hadn't ascended. But that evening, He could be handled and there was no problem. Obviously at John 20:22, He DID impart the Holy Spirit, as witnessed by it's effect in Luke 24.

Sticking with Biblical language, the phenomenon in Acts 2 was NOT the Holy Spirit "IN" the disciples, since that had happened already in John 20:22. It WAS, however the Holy Spirit "ON" the disciples, giving them power in ministry.

 

[PloughBoy]

Which He apparently did AFTER his meeting with the gals, since they couldn't touch Him - yet, since He hadn't ascended. But that evening, He could be handled and there was no problem. Obviously at John 20:22, He DID impart the Holy Spirit, as witnessed by it's effect in Luke 24.

Sticking with Biblical language, the phenomenon in Acts 2 was NOT the Holy Spirit "IN" the disciples, since that had happened already in John 20:22. It WAS, however the Holy Spirit "ON" the disciples, giving them power in ministry.

Well i guess Jesus was lying in Acts and in "The Gospel according to JOHN" [The REVELATOR]" we have to take your word for the Truth!

New American Standard Bible (John 16)
But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
New King James Version (Luke 24:49)
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
Acts 1:4
And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss.

New American Standard Bible (John 7:39)
But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

PS...I do think that many christians do not know the difference between "The Synoptic Gospels" and The "Gospel according to John the Apostle" and many cannot distinguish The three Synoptics from one another, when they hear quotes form them. But John's Gospel is very distinguish from the three, very different. So when you hear a quote that is quoted from his book you know it is "John". just like any of your favorite authors, you know how that person writes, if a "ghost writer takes his place anywhere in the book you are reading under his name, you pick it up right away.

The only way you can distinguish each writer you have to have had read their books over and over and over again until you get the flavor of each writers style of writing, and expression. That is why you can tell in some "Epistles" whether Apostle Paul used a Amanuensis in his writings. In some places it is stipulated he did in that Epistles. For John was more closer and spend more time with Jesus than all of the other disciples and Jesus mother in whom she went to live with, rather than her own children, 3 girls, and 3 other boys or men. So His relationship with Jesus was far different than the rest. John it seems was always by Jesus side, even laying his head upon his shoulder it would seem as a young teen. And many times Jesus mother traveled with them and slept in the same room.

No one received The "Holy Spirit" until Jesus went and sat down on the Right Hand of GOD and then It was sent to Earth to indwell His People and it arrived on The Day of "Pentecost " and not a day sooner to "indwell" HIS people and live in them forever and ever and never depart. for it is a command!.

Wow, to be empowered by GOD and moving by a Divine Command is two different things. But they both can be "integrated" together. By A "GOD"

Another day in the Neighborhood.

 

[Bethel]

1 Corinthians

Psalm 68:18
Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:

1 Corinthians 15: 55-57

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No one received The "Holy Spirit" until Jesus went and sat down on the Right Hand of GOD and then It was sent to Earth to indwell His People and it arrived on The Day of "Pentecost " and not a day sooner to "indwell" HIS people and live in them forever and ever and never depart. for it is a command!.

Then why did Jesus refer to Acts 2:4 as an "Enduement" - external clothing??

And when Jesus BREATHED ON THEM in John 20, why would you claim that there was no impartation??

 

[PloughBoy]

Then why did Jesus refer to Acts 2:4 as an "Enduement" - external clothing??

And when Jesus BREATHED ON THEM in John 20, why would you claim that there was no impartation??

Bob i am not being harsh here ok. Investigate it do a research and in the scriptures and not rely on someones else's. you will see it be patience and prayerfully let the scriptures speak to you, and pray for understand as you go. the biggest problem is understanding the translators, translation of John 20.

 

[Garee]

sad

Because God is not a man as us? Why?

 

[Garee]

PloughBoy said:
No one received The "Holy Spirit" until Jesus went and sat down on the Right Hand of GOD and then It was sent to Earth to indwell His People and it arrived on The Day of "Pentecost " and not a day sooner to "indwell" HIS people and live in them forever and ever and never depart. for it is a command!.

That would seem to be a common error. or a improper division.

The Day of "Pentecost, the time of reformation that restored the government of God as it was in Genesis before the abomination of desolation, Kings in Israel.

The Day God moved Abel a judge, prophet, apostle like that of Deborah or Samson the last judge before God gave over to the atheist Jewish elders who gathered themselves together not called by God. Because of their jealousy of the surrounding Pagan nations.

God informed Samuel the Judge in chapter 8 its not Samuel seen they reject as King reigning over them but rather our invisible God as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Samael like us today is shown that God was working in born again mankind to both reveal his will and empower .Abel performed it to the good pleasure and power of the Father not seen . . the first recorded apostle and martyr. . a witness God breathed in new eternal life. (grace)

 

[PloughBoy]

That would seem to be a common error. or a improper division.

The Day of "Pentecost, the time of reformation that restored the government of God as it was in Genesis before the abomination of desolation, Kings in Israel.

The Day God moved Abel a judge, prophet, apostle like that of Deborah or Samson the last judge before God gave over to the atheist Jewish elders who gathered themselves together not called by God. Because of their jealousy of the surrounding Pagan nations.

God informed Samuel the Judge in chapter 8 its not Samuel seen they reject as King reigning over them but rather our invisible God as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Samael like us today is shown that God was working in born again mankind to both reveal his will and empower .Abel performed it to the good pleasure and power of the Father not seen . . the first recorded apostle and martyr. . a witness God breathed in new eternal life. (grace)

New American Standard Bible
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
John 5:23
so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
1 John 4:2
By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1 John 4:15
If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.
American Standard Version
I and the Father are one.
John 1:1,2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…

King James Bible (Leviticus)
And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
New American Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

American Standard Version
but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


And "The Tetragrammaton" does not need a "corrupted" creature called man. to interpret His WORD to "HIS People" The world must have lost there mind! How can an unregenerated creature think that he even express the intention oF GOD, when HE is Talking to HIS sons! "Total Depravity' has no Bounds! No wonder GOD created a Hell, and A Lake Burning in Fire and BrimStone. People will try to overtake "Heaven" and Elect GOD out of His LORDSHIP, and institute , a "Political Party" and a "Constitution"! which is Going to tell GOD what He ain't going do and what HE is going to do! And when they Rub the lamp three times He better Jump.

And God do know :"Ghetto Language", now put your "Linguistic" skills on that Topic. Since you can "interpret" everything else.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Bob i am not being harsh here ok. Investigate it do a research and in the scriptures and not rely on someones else's.

Been there, done that. All God's Chilluns gots "Interpretations".

 

[Reba1]

Except that they had been regenerated as documented in John 20:22 when they received the Holy Spirit, that opened their understantding (luke 24:45).

Holy Spirit filled Christians may also be hard headed.

 

[Garee]

New American Standard Bible
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
John 5:23
so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
1 John 4:2
By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1 John 4:15
If anyone confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.
American Standard Version
I and the Father are one.
John 1:1,2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…

King James Bible (Leviticus)
And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
New American Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

American Standard Version
but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


And "The Tetragrammaton" does not need a "corrupted" creature called man. to interpret His WORD to "HIS People" The world must have lost there mind! How can an unregenerated creature think that he even express the intention oF GOD, when HE is Talking to HIS sons! "Total Depravity' has no Bounds! No wonder GOD created a Hell, and A Lake Burning in Fire and BrimStone. People will try to overtake "Heaven" and Elect GOD out of His LORDSHIP, and institute , a "Political Party" and a "Constitution"! which is Going to tell GOD what He ain't going do and what HE is going to do! And when they Rub the lamp three times He better Jump.

And God do know :"Ghetto Language", now put your "Linguistic" skills on that Topic. Since you can "interpret" everything else.

I agree with the verse you offered . No Son no Father, no Father no Son. Salvation is demonstrated by the work of two one seen the other not just as promised in Isiah 53. The one time demonstration is over . jesus siad his corupted flesh profited for nothing it is the Spirt that has the power of life. His words are spirt and life giving.


We do not know Christ after the flesh. . some did before he vanished .

2 Corihtinans 5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

I am not sure about this Tetragrammaton thingy .What is that all about ? A special secret code that solves mysteries ?