Hi Josephine, You do set posers don't you. Many Christians say, That if a person doesn't give their lives to Jesus, they are lost. I find that unfair, many people have been turned away from Jesus by self deluded, self appointed judges, masquerading as christians, who have no compassion, understanding or love. I can't believe that the Jesus I have come to know and love would allow these people to destroy people's chance of salvation. Jesus has the keys of death and hades. Revelation 1: 12-18 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. and when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all it's brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid, I am the first and the last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
The Bible, states plainly they go to the grave [sheol, hades] until they are raise for "The Judgment" Great White Throne. Believe and trust what Jesus has said. He has already told you. Trust Him, He lies not! He is not a God of confusion or God who leaves His children in darkness! "You are saved" from damnation. What do you believe? Man or the Word of God?
Hi Ploughboy, As I have said before, I am a street musician, and over the years I've been approached by many people claiming to be Christians. Many may well have been, I don't know, but my experience is, of people who would lay down a tract, many of which threatened me with damnation if I didn't commit my life to Jesus, but seldom gave money. The Jesus that they were offering me, was similar to the one being offered in your post. An austere Judge who was to meet me in hades at "The Judgement" where he would be sitting on his "big white seat" to judge me. That put me off Christians for years, I preferred to knock about with people who didn't judge me. Imagine my surprise when he eventually found me, I met him first, through the scriptures and found he was nothing like this austere judge I'd been told about in the tracts, but rather, he was the most loving person I had ever met, in fact, it occurred to me at the time, that if everybody adhered to what he was calling us all to do, we would be in heaven. I believe if the Jesus that I have come to know went down to hades to judge a person, he would likely do what he did to John in Revelation, place his hand on the sinners head and say fear not. however I can't say how he would treat the person who drove them away by pictureing him as an austere judge with no mercy. He saved us didn't he? and I don't know about you, but if I was Jesus, after the things I've done, I don't know if I would have bothered. But then I'm not as forgiving as him. Nobody is. Bless you.The Bible, states plainly they go to the grave [sheol, hades] until they are raise for "The Judgment" Great White Throne. Believe and trust what Jesus has said. He has already told you. Trust Him, He lies not! He is not a God of confusion or God who leaves His children in darkness! "You are saved" from damnation. What do you believe? Man or the Word of God?
Ok, I understand what you are saying. But I must get this straight ; I believe the word "hell" is not recorded or Spoken not by Jesus and you will never find it in the original text. But you will find the Word "hades meaning the gravel" is where the dead go. Both saved and unsaved but there is a gulf between the two. I do not believe when save people die in this dispensation go to heaven when they die. I believe the scripture teaches there is no Great White Throne Judgment seat in hades. The Bible's says nothing of such. At the Place of the Great White Throne Judgment seat. At that place ,Death, hades, the Devil, and all that God cast into the Lake of Fire according to HIS will, shall be cast into it. According to what God want to do. So the things you claim I said, I believe in like the like others, I did not state. Look at my words concerning in context and English syntax.
Hi Ploughboy, The word hell: Matt 5:22-29-30. Matt 10:28. Matt 18:9. Matt 23:15. & Matt 23:33. That's just in Matthew. As for the judgement and the white throne, I agree that I wrongly inferred they were in Hades, but whether a person is judged in Hades or elsewhere, my point was, that Jesus, wherever he was, would judge with compassion, especially if the recipient was in Hades because he was driven away from Jesus by people who depicted Him as judgemental as opposed to compassionate. As for God choosing us and us not choosing him, I agree and I also agree that we can do nothing without Grace. However, you say, we cannot discourage a soul from coming to Christ. Luke 11: 52-54 "Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourself have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." When Jesus left there, The pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and besiege him with questions, waiting to catch him in something he might say. As to mentioning the lake of fire, I can't ever remember Jesus threatening the lake of fire to sinners, they already knew their need, that's why they followed him wherever he went. It was the hypocrites and teachers of the law, who controlled the people with threats of damnation that he warned. They were furious because the people were leaving the Synagogue and following the loving teachings of Jesus. His message of love was so powerful that he had to hide from the people to get some rest. And finally, you say; quote, "he is Holy and when he tells someone to obey him, he meant it, or else". again threats. bless you
Hi Demily, I think you'll find that the sinners who followed Jesus and hung on his every word did believe. The people who didn't believe were the scribes and the Pharisees who professed that they did, as they wandered around in their robes, openly praying in public when Jesus counseled us not to. So who was in darkness, the sinners who sat basking in the light of the gospel, or the ones who proffesed to know the truth, but rejected the light and crucified him?
Hi Trevor,
Thank you brother PloughBoy that explains a lot. So they don't get a second run at life. They go to the grave until they are raised for "The Judgment"The Bible, states plainly they go to the grave [sheol, hades] until they are raise for "The Judgment" Great White Throne. Believe and trust what Jesus has said. He has already told you. Trust Him, He lies not! He is not a God of confusion or God who leaves His children in darkness! "You are saved" from damnation. What do you believe? Man or the Word of God?
Thank you Demily for your reply.
No problem, please stay in the Word of God and ask Jesus for his guidance to give you wisdom and understanding. So many false doctrines and things taken out of context. Compare scripture with scripture. His Word does not lie!
Thank you Demily.
Thank you again Demily.
Hi Josephine, You haven't offended me at all. It was an interesting question you posted and it caused me to seek answers. My answer however, has tended to cause others who hold different views, to quite strongly question my understandings, but that's what debate is all about. Sometimes debate can become somewhat heated, but once our understandings are voiced, we all have the opportunity to muse on one another's posts, and out of the confrontation, when all has calmed down, we all have the time to evaluate one another's points of view and possibly another's understanding might influence our own.
