What is sin to a believer?

[regibassman57]

The question is, “what is sin to a believer?”

Based on the principle of sin, a person can only sin if they are in the flesh. We as believers are not “in” the flesh, but in the spirit if the Spirit of GOD dwells in us (Romans 8:9).

When we were “in” the flesh (past tense), the influence of sin, which was by the law, did work in or bodies to bring forth fruit/character unto death. But now being delivered from the law, being dead wherein we were held, we should serve in the newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter (Romans 7:5).

The letter (the Law or Moses) told man they sinned and then caused a separation between GOD and man, which caused condemnation for that sin. In order to be pardon of that sin, they needed a carnal sacrifice; one that could not make man perfect from sin.

Because we are no longer in the flesh, and under/justified by the law or a carnal commandment; sin is meaningless to a believer. Sin was a fleshly act under a fleshly covenant.

Heb 7:16 Who (Jesus) is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life

Believers are in the spirit of GOD where there is only the power of an endless life and void of sin.

If the root of that believer is Christ, then that believer can only bring forth the fruit of righteousness. The root of Christ is not a part of the nature of sin. If the believer whose root is Christ, does an immoral act contrary to what Jesus teaches, that believer has committed an unfruitful work.

An unfruitful believer will not develop the character of Christ, which is the fruit of the spirit, and if this is the case, that believer will eventually wither away.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

An unbeliever cannot wither because they are already dead, but when or if the unbeliever comes to Christ, he or she is made alive. However, if that converted believer in Christ makes a choice to do the things that are contrary to righteousness without repenting from their actions, they are making a choice not to abide in Christ and will eventually become weeds or tares. In the day that Jesus will sends His angel to sever the wicked from among the just, those tares or unfruitful believers will be gathered out of GOD’s Kingdom and have their part with the unbelievers.

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57

First and foremost sin is what the scripture says

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
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Sin is or encompasses not following the two greatest commandments and golden rule which is the sum of the law and the prophets
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Sin encompasses not "hearing / understanding/ listening / obeying" that The Lord our God is one lord; and not loving him with all our heart, soul, strength/mind

Sin encompasses not loving our neighbor as ourselves

Sin encompasses not treating people as you would like to be treated.
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And Sin can also be broken down further "but i think this is a good overall perspective"

 

[regibassman57]

I agree with you that sin is the transgression of the law, whoever commits sin transgresses the law. The question in 1John is who is he talking to; (Jews), and not all of them are saved. This why the very next verse says, "Jesus was manifest to take away our sin and in Him their is no sin." We as believers are in a sin free zone in Christ, and a believer cannot sin in the flesh because we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Jesus is our root and their is no sin in the root; where we get our nourishment from.

Heb 7:16 Who (Jesus) is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life

Believers are in the spirit of GOD where there is only the power of an endless life and void of sin.

If the root of that believer is Christ, then that believer can only bring forth the fruit of righteousness. The root of Christ is not a part of the nature of sin. If the believer whose root is Christ, does an immoral act contrary to what Jesus teaches, that believer has committed an unfruitful work.

An unfruitful believer will not develop the character of Christ, which is the fruit of the spirit, and if this is the case, that believer will eventually wither away.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

An unbeliever cannot wither because they are already dead, but when or if the unbeliever comes to Christ, he or she is made alive. However, if that converted believer in Christ makes a choice to do the things that are contrary to righteousness without repenting from their actions, they are making a choice not to abide in Christ and will eventually become weeds or tares. In the day that Jesus will sends His angel to sever the wicked from among the just, those tares or unfruitful believers will be gathered out of GOD’s Kingdom and have their part with the unbelievers.

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57

one more thing i forgot to bring up "and i have to be careful"

more than likely we should love our neighbors as ourselves and treat others as we would line to be treated "within reason and within discernment" don't for get that man is also flesh or the dust of the earth which is very opportunistic.

also their is a difference between loving our neighbors equally to ourselves; and loving our neighbors more than ourselves.

 

[regibassman57]

Ivan, I truly enjoy fellowship, I do not look at this as debating, but as two believers operating as the bereans; proving scripture to the best of their ability.

Without love no man will obtain eternal life. loving one another is acting according to the character and spirit of GOD (the 10 Commandments) against such there is no law. (Gal 5:22,23)

Rom 8:9 But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We are not looking at the things which are seem, but we as believers are looking at the things which are not seen. We as the just walk by faith and not by sight. If I as a believer see myself sinning, I am imputing or concluding myself to have sinned; GOD is not imputing sin unto believers nor is He concluding them to have sinned.. I can only see or conclude myself to have sinned if i am in the flesh.

If you have the spirit of GOD in you, your body hast to be dead to sin, because your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost. If you sin, you are no different than the old covenant believers. The law cleansed them of their sins, forgave them of their sins, washed their sins away, atoned for their sins, you get the point. But it was only temporary. Jesus did all of these and more where sin is concerned forever, once for all. (Hebrews 10:10,12,14)

Ask me some question pertaining to sin and I may be able to anwser them and we most likely will come to an agreement. I do not think you get what I'm saying.

 

[regibassman57]

Ivan, what is your thoughts on these scriptures?

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remains.

 

[Ivar]

Ivan, what is your thoughts on these scriptures?

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remains.

@regibassman57

you asked me already and i answered already.

 

[regibassman57]

I do not recall seeing it in my post...

 

[regibassman57]

You are correct, but I don't see your reply, sorry

 

[KingJ]

The question is, “what is sin to a believer?”

Sin to a believer is, sin. The same as it is to anyone else.

A believer / Christian is simply someone who has escaped the punishment of sin, death. They are not sinless. Nor are angels in heaven. Only God is good. Only God is perfect.

Believers and angels in heaven have not committed mortal sin. They are also not continual sinners. They make mistakes of sin. They are not sold out to sin. They choose the light over the darkness. They however are not God, who can completely resist the darkness. Sin will be part and parcel of our lives for all eternity. The day the ability to sin goes, free will goes with it. A God who does not allow for free will is an evil God. God is not evil.

 

[KingJ]

Ivan, what is your thoughts on these scriptures?

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remains.

This talks to being exempt from punishment of sin if you are truly unaware of it. Children under twenty, mentally handicapped. All exempt for now.

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57

you asked me already and i answered already.

@regibassman57
Found it


In regards to your question my thoughts are
For those that have the knowledge or Oracles of God to see the truth
And those who said they have no sin to not see the truth.
this seems to be the understanding of John 9:39-41. that i got.

The following are scriptures that lead me towards that understanding
"also username spelled Ivar not Ivan"

Romans 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

John 1:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[Lacawar]

What's a Berean?

 

[Ivar]

Ivan, I truly enjoy fellowship, I do not look at this as debating, but as two believers operating as the bereans; proving scripture to the best of their ability.

Without love no man will obtain eternal life. loving one another is acting according to the character and spirit of GOD (the 10 Commandments) against such there is no law. (Gal 5:22,23)

Rom 8:9 But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

We are not looking at the things which are seem, but we as believers are looking at the things which are not seen. We as the just walk by faith and not by sight. If I as a believer see myself sinning, I am imputing or concluding myself to have sinned; GOD is not imputing sin unto believers nor is He concluding them to have sinned.. I can only see or conclude myself to have sinned if i am in the flesh.

If you have the spirit of GOD in you, your body hast to be dead to sin, because your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost. If you sin, you are no different than the old covenant believers. The law cleansed them of their sins, forgave them of their sins, washed their sins away, atoned for their sins, you get the point. But it was only temporary. Jesus did all of these and more where sin is concerned forever, once for all. (Hebrews 10:10,12,14)

Ask me some question pertaining to sin and I may be able to anwser them and we most likely will come to an agreement. I do not think you get what I'm saying.

What's a Berean?

I suspect it's those who not just listen to pastors or traditions of man but immerse themselves in scripture to verify. using scripture for their points and proving scripture to the best of their abilities.

I also did not know until you mentioned and i looked it up.

Who were the Bereans in the Bible?

 

[Lacawar]

Ok

 

[regibassman57]

Hello King J, Thank you replying,
You anwsered: "Someone who has escaped the punishment of sin and death; emphasis on "punishment."

I believe the only way we can understand scripture is let scripture speak for itself with its own comparisons and interpretations. In this case scripture tells us, if we are free from the punishment, we are then free from the "cause" of the punishment; "emphasis" on the cause.

King J, what is the cause of the punishment? "SIN" Therefore, if we are free from death, condemnation, the curse, etc; we must be made free from the cause; especially because "that's what it says"; sin and death. You can't have one without the other; we are equally free from the both..

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned "sin" in the flesh:

I does not say that Jesus condemned the "punishment," but it says, He condemned the cause of the punishment. "sin"

Act 13:39 And by him (Jesus) all that believe are justified (made Righteous) from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

What is it that the law of Moses could not justify an old covenant believers from? "sin"

What is it that the law of Moses could justify an old covenant believer from? making them the head and not the tail? Anwser: All the riches of the world, as well as the healing of their bodies. (Deu 28:1-14)

I hope to hear from you again King J.; so we can continue to strengthen one another and become more knowledgable in Christ through fellowship.

 

[Lacawar]

I agree Death only reigns because of Sin! No Sin No death!
James 1:15
[15]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[KingJ]

King J, what is the cause of the punishment? "SIN"

I agree with letting scripture speak for itself. Lets just be sure to include in all the pertinent scripture before we make statements we espouse as fact.

The cause of death is sin. In death there are differing punishments. In the OT there was a split in Hades. All in death, not all, like those in Abraham's bosom, in suffering. Adam and Eve entered death, came to earth. Not sent to Hades. Not sent to lake of fire.

The cause of death is sin. Jesus takes us from death / sin / Abrahams bosom and washes us clean, grafts us in to God's family. God sees us as perfect because of the thresh-hold / depth of intent we have sunk to in choosing Jesus, hating what is wicked, clinging to what is good Rom 12:9.

Punishment, we escape. Not because we no longer sin. Not because we perfectly stopped sinning. Because we were chosen to be forgiven and grafted in. We were chosen because we showed a depth of intent for God. As Matt 16:24 says to lay your life down. Or the advice to the young rich man to sell all he had or sincere repentance Psalm 51:17.

Many have this illusion that they will not sin in heaven. Or that they do not sin now.

I don't know how much clearer Jesus can be in Mark 10:18 'Only God is good'.

Therefore, if we are free from death, condemnation, the curse, etc; we must be made free from the cause; especially because "that's what it says"; sin and death. You can't have one without the other; we are equally free from the both. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Free from the law of sin and death. Not free from sin. The law of sin and death is that if you sin you die. In Jesus we are free from that. Our sin no longer results in death.

We need to be discussing what sin is mortal and what sin is not.

 

[KingJ]

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned "sin" in the flesh:

I does not say that Jesus condemned the "punishment," but it says, He condemned the cause of the punishment. "sin"

Act 13:39 And by him (Jesus) all that believe are justified (made Righteous) from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

What is it that the law of Moses could not justify an old covenant believers from? "sin"

What is it that the law of Moses could justify an old covenant believer from? making them the head and not the tail? Anwser: All the riches of the world, as well as the healing of their bodies. (Deu 28:1-14)

I hope to hear from you again King J.; so we can continue to strengthen one another and become more knowledgable in Christ through fellowship.

You are not letting Rom 8:3 speak for itself. You are using it as support for your statement.

Rom 8:3 is saying that we could not achieve sinless perfection. The '''ONLY''' option God had to deal with our sin, was to sacrifice His own Son. Now, anyone who chooses Him / has faith in Him....will because of their faith in Him / Choosing Him, be covered before God from their sin.

This does not say our sins ''STOP''. For us who choose Jesus, the law of sin and death is washed away. The condemnation of sin in the flesh is washed away.

Whilst saying this, I need to clarify, I am ''NOT'' espousing we continue in sin / wicked will inherit heaven. I want to be crystal clear that there are sins and depths of intent that tell God all He needs to know about us. Tells us all we need to know about ourselves. A pedophile will not be in heaven. A rapist will not be in heaven. God will ''NOT'' make the mistake of grafting a devil into His family.

We need to grasp Mark 10:18 properly. Meditate on it a while. The devil has been sinning from the beginning 1 John 3:8. But only a certain sin got him removed from heaven.

We just have to think about how the devil beat and crucified his Creator, to grasp the depth of his wickedness. That is sin that will be punished / get one into the lake of fire.

 

[KingJ]

Act 13:39 And by him (Jesus) all that believe are justified (made Righteous) from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

What is it that the law of Moses could not justify an old covenant believers from? "sin"

What is it that the law of Moses could justify an old covenant believer from? making them the head and not the tail? Anwser: All the riches of the world, as well as the healing of their bodies. (Deu 28:1-14)

I don't grasp ''old covenant believer''. There were Jews and then there were those foreigners who were Godly, usually due to prophets like Jonah paying them a visit and advising them to repent. This happening only when said foreigners sin was at such a level that it upset God. All these in the OT went to Hades. Nobody able to be in God's presence. Those three prophets that never died, Abraham's bosom. Only when Jesus died, heaven / with God.

Those in Abraham's bosom would never be thrown into the lake of fire for their ''sin''.

The law of Moses justified them from lake of fire. But only Jesus could graft them into God's presence. Excuse their sin before God. All those in Abraham's bosom would be grafted in as they were people, like David, after God's heart. They would repent sincerely of their sins. Albeit some, like David, committed sins that warranted the death penalty.

Heaven is going to be full of people like this. Not everyone is going to be as obedient as the next person. If we say sin is disobedience, then many will sin in heaven.