When are the dead in Christ raised, and the living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[StewardoftheMystery]

So when is the resurrection of the dead, and the living in Christ being caught up to the Lord?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”​

Notice we see #1 the Lord himself decending, #2 the trump of the archangel is sounded, #3 “the dead rise first”and #4 the living are caught up to meet the Lord.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

So it is clear, the dead are raised on “the last day”.
Notice the judgment is also on the last day as well….
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Judgment of saints is shown on the last day…. Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Confirmed here….

Daniel 7:21-22 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”​

When do saints posses the kingdoms of this world?

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Daniel was told when he shall stand in the lot of his inheritance, at that was not until the end.

Daniel 12:13 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.​

Notice in the above, (Daniel 7:22) Christ first comes and the judgment is given to the saints on the last day.

So when does Christ come?

Son of Gods coming last day….

Luke 17:26-31​

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”​

Notice above it was “the day” Noah entered they were destroyed, and “the same day” Lot left Sodom they were destroyed.
At the last day, at the Last Trump….

1Corinthians 15:51-52 “Behold I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed”

Notice at the last trump the dead are raised, and so what happens at the last trump…

Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

Revelation 11:12 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.​

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Also notice the elect are still on earth during the great tribulation and wrath of God.

Matthew 24:22 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​

Revelation 7:14 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

Revelation 16:15 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.​

All the scriptures agree there is no resurrection of the dead or living in Christ until the last day, and at the last trump.


Now some will try to use Matthew 24:40-41 And Luke 17:34-37 as pre-trib rapture proof, but again Jesus says it has to do with His coming, when the Son is revealed. And both of those prophecies speak of the destruction of the ungodly on that same day, as it was in Noah’s day and in Lots day, just as we saw above in Luke 17:26-31. It says the same in Matthew 24:38 that “the day” Noah entered the ark the flood came and took them all away.

Now in Luke17:36 Jesus said one shall be taken, and the other left. In the next verse Jesus is asked where? Jesus replies “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.” To prove this has to do with Christs second coming we go to Matthew 24:27-28 “ For as the lightning comes out of th east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”

So what is Jesus speaking of here about a carcase and eagles being gathered together? Jesus is speaking of the supper of the great God mentioned in Revelation 19:17 And if you look at the context of Revelation chapter 19:11-21 it is about the second coming of Christ with all his saints, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the slaughter of the beasts army and the kings of the earth, and their flesh being fed to the fowls. And also the judgment of the beast and false prophet, which happens on the last day.

Revelation 19:11-2111 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;​

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”​

So all the scriptures agree, all these things happen on the last day.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I am going to add this into this study....

A lot of people wonder when the catching up to the Lord will happen, and where they go. But this event is clearly spoken of in scripture as happening at the last trump beginning with the shout, or the great voice. What many may not know though is the raising of the dead in Christ first is also shown in the Lords 2 witnesses being caught up to heaven, as their dead bodies also represent the dead in Christ being raised up first. Let’s piece this mystery together to show the timing of events, and where they go.

1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Ok, first notice the connection of the dead being raised first, and the shout or voice mentioned and the trump of God. But also notice how Paul described they would be caught up, which was in the clouds. Now let’s go to where the 2 witnesses are being raised up from the dead.

Revelation 11:12-19 “And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”

Alright first notice the sequence of events, the great voice is heard first (shout) and the dead in Christ are raised first, and then the remnant that remain give glory to God, and then 7th trump sounds=last trump. But also notice the dead are caught up to heaven in the clouds, this is an important sign to confirm as to where they are going. So with that let’s view this at another angle in….

Daniel 7:9-14 “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

Ok, this is the same event but with more details, first notice the beast was slain and his body given to the burning flame. And then also notice the Son of man (Son of God) coming to the Ancient of days in heaven (God the Father) with all the saints (with the clouds of heaven) as we saw the dead caught up to heaven in the clouds in Rev. 12:12. By the way the clouds represent the great cloud of witnesses shown in Hebrews 12:1

This same event in Daniel can also be confirmed again here….


Revelation 19:19-21 “And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” Notice there the remnant slain as also shown in Rev. 11:13, but there is also a remnant who would repent and give glory to God.
And then it picks up again in Revelation 20: 4-6 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

So by all these scriptures we get a better idea of when the catching up to the Lord will be, and where the
saints go for the first resurrection judgement, and remain, at least until the indignation of God’s wrath is complete.

Isaiah 26:20-21 “ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”
May the grace of our Lord be with you, Peace and God bless.

 

[hopefulson]

So when is the resurrection of the dead, and the living in Christ being caught up to the Lord?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”​

Notice we see #1 the Lord himself decending, #2 the trump of the archangel is sounded, #3 “the dead rise first”and #4 the living are caught up to meet the Lord.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

So it is clear, the dead are raised on “the last day”.
Notice the judgment is also on the last day as well….
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Judgment of saints is shown on the last day…. Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Confirmed here….

Daniel 7:21-22 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”​

When do saints posses the kingdoms of this world?

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Daniel was told when he shall stand in the lot of his inheritance, at that was not until the end.

Daniel 12:13 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.​

Notice in the above, (Daniel 7:22) Christ first comes and the judgment is given to the saints on the last day.

So when does Christ come?

Son of Gods coming last day….

Luke 17:26-31​

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”​

Notice above it was “the day” Noah entered they were destroyed, and “the same day” Lot left Sodom they were destroyed.
At the last day, at the Last Trump….

1Corinthians 15:51-52 “Behold I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed”

Notice at the last trump the dead are raised, and so what happens at the last trump…

Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

Revelation 11:12 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.​

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Also notice the elect are still on earth during the great tribulation and wrath of God.

Matthew 24:22 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​

Revelation 7:14 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

Revelation 16:15 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.​

All the scriptures agree there is no resurrection of the dead or living in Christ until the last day, and at the last trump.


Now some will try to use Matthew 24:40-41 And Luke 17:34-37 as pre-trib rapture proof, but again Jesus says it has to do with His coming, when the Son is revealed. And both of those prophecies speak of the destruction of the ungodly on that same day, as it was in Noah’s day and in Lots day, just as we saw above in Luke 17:26-31. It says the same in Matthew 24:38 that “the day” Noah entered the ark the flood came and took them all away.

Now in Luke17:36 Jesus said one shall be taken, and the other left. In the next verse Jesus is asked where? Jesus replies “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.” To prove this has to do with Christs second coming we go to Matthew 24:27-28 “ For as the lightning comes out of th east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”

So what is Jesus speaking of here about a carcase and eagles being gathered together? Jesus is speaking of the supper of the great God mentioned in Revelation 19:17 And if you look at the context of Revelation chapter 19:11-21 it is about the second coming of Christ with all his saints, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the slaughter of the beasts army and the kings of the earth, and their flesh being fed to the fowls. And also the judgment of the beast and false prophet, which happens on the last day.

Revelation 19:11-2111 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;​

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”​

So all the scriptures agree, all these things happen on the last day.

I can appreciate the points you made however they are cherry picked and speculative as to what conclusions you are reaching. There is scripture that is not speculative as to meaning and more importantly for the referencing of the answer to the original question. These are scripture with actual and traceable in their events a time stamp for the events. These indicators point to a mid tribulation rapture. The time stamped event is the desecration of the third temple by the antichrist ( Let the reader understand ) referencing the event in Daniel and Jesus's description one will be taken and one will be left that happens post that event. Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 leaves no room for doubt or argument that this event MUST happen first. Now the hard part that so many will not agree with my perception is that we shall all be changed but our dead bodies will remain behind for that is where the vultures will gather. The sticking point is no third temple no rapture possible. Anyway I have found it hard at any point to produce a speculative argument when The Red Letters are so clear and have no other reasonable explanation. This is actually a topic in a Bible study I am in the middle of right now and I will be called upon to make this case and this argument. God Bless Brother that is a lot of work in all the referencing and I appreciate it all but I am afraid I do not agree with your conclusions.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I can appreciate the points you made however they are cherry picked and speculative as to what conclusions you are reaching. There is scripture that is not speculative as to meaning and more importantly for the referencing of the answer to the original question. These are scripture with actual and traceable in their events a time stamp for the events. These indicators point to a mid tribulation rapture. The time stamped event is the desecration of the third temple by the antichrist ( Let the reader understand ) referencing the event in Daniel and Jesus's description one will be taken and one will be left that happens post that event. Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 leaves no room for doubt or argument that this event MUST happen first. Now the hard part that so many will not agree with my perception is that we shall all be changed but our dead bodies will remain behind for that is where the vultures will gather. The sticking point is no third temple no rapture possible. Anyway I have found it hard at any point to produce a speculative argument when The Red Letters are so clear and have no other reasonable explanation. This is actually a topic in a Bible study I am in the middle of right now and I will be called upon to make this case and this argument. God Bless Brother that is a lot of work in all the referencing and I appreciate it all but I am afraid I do not agree with your conclusions.

What I have written above is true, as I have provided plenty of scripture to confirm this truth.

You speak of a pre- trib or mid trib rapture based on the error of a 7 year tribulation theory. You also speak of the need for a third temple to be built to fulfill the prophecy concerning the abomination of desolation and the coming of anti christ.

I will in the future address all these errors, each in a separate thread, Lord willing. Peace and Godbless.

 

[hopefulson]

What I have written above is true, as I have provided plenty of scripture to confirm this truth.

You speak of a pre- trib or mid trib rapture based on the error of a 7 year tribulation theory. You also speak of the need for a third temple to be built to fulfill the prophecy concerning the abomination of desolation and the coming of anti christ.

I will in the future address all these errors, each in a separate thread, Lord willing. Peace and Godbless.

Hi Steward I will be looking forward to that discussion. This is a topic that breeds a lot of discussion and many spins in and out of the timing issues. I will be looking forward to what you will be bringing forward. Every detail I am sure will be enlightening. I will be neck deep in it all in a short while in the study I am attending. God Bless.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Hi Steward I will be looking forward to that discussion. This is a topic that breeds a lot of discussion and many spins in and out of the timing issues. I will be looking forward to what you will be bringing forward. Every detail I am sure will be enlightening. I will be neck deep in it all in a short while in the study I am attending. God Bless.

Here is a fact that the pre-trib rapture doctrine cannot get past. I posted it at the beginning of my O.P.

The fact is the dead in Christ rise first. And we have Jesus’ testimony that says the dead in Christ are not raised until the last day.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So you see, there is no point in trying to spin other verses of scripture, because they cannot get past that fact. The dead rise first, and that is not until the last day.

No wiggle room for spin.

 

[hopefulson]

Here is a fact that the pre-trib rapture doctrine cannot get past. I posted it at the beginning of my O.P.

The fact is the dead in Christ rise first. And we have Jesus’ testimony that says the dead in Christ are not raised until the last day.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So you see, there is no point in trying to spin other verses of scripture, because they cannot get past that fact. The dead rise first, and that is not until the last day.

No wiggle room for spin.

There are many places in scripture that appear to conflict but there is no conflict. Believing that we are viewing the unfailing Word of God plainly stated within it then it MUST BE DEDUCED that both things are true. I don't have time at the moment to pull out details right now but you are well versed in The Word and can plainly see in 2Thessolonians 2 that there is in fact no wiggle room there either. So lets explore the deeper meaning where these two positions reconcile each other because that reconciliation is certainly there. Be Blessed Steward and thank you.