Why do the young women have to be taught by older women how to love their own husband in the Body of Christ?

[PloughBoy]

Teaching Sound Doctrine

1But speak thou the things which befit the sound doctrine: 2that aged men be temperate, grave, sober-minded, sound in faith, in love, in patience:

3that aged women likewise be reverent in demeanor, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good; 4that they may train the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5to be'sober-minded, chaste, workers at home, kind, being in subjection to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed:

And there is a difference discribe in the Bible between love and duty.

 

[Sue D.]

You're asking Why? because an older woman Could be the mother of daughters -- mother's are supposed to be both an example Of and a teacher for their daughters.

Back in the Biblical culture and sometimes Now days -- women are put with men as their wives -- it's not a love relationship - it's a 'here you are, you're now my wife, act like one' - so the older women are to teach the younger wives how to love their husbands.

So -- you'd Rather that Scripture said for husbands to teach their wives how to love them? God's Word says what He inspired it to say.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I like most of you guys live in the western world.

In our part of the world, families are fragmented, everyone goes there own way, man meets woman, get married (or should), they get a place of their own, they go there own way, often miles from family.

In the middle east, families are much closer, grandparents living with or near parents, living with or near grand children and even grandchildren, family ties are closer, even in todays world where the west has gone the other way. Thy care for each other, they learn from each other, the elders respected and pass down there teaching to future generations.

It is or should be in places of worship, where the older ones lead by example and knowledge, but does it really happen in the world today.

First men should be respected for their position, head of their families, and at places of worship the pastor being the teacher, being male, has his duty for the Lord and the flock. In the early church women were helpers, there was always something they could do, now a days like the world they think they should be pastors also, it is a job!

It is this view and modern day changes that have helped change the church, the ekklesia, once being a minister became a job with a pension and other perks it became a job many wanted born again or not. I wonder how many would do the job today for the Love of God, shared gifts from the community etc.

Sorry back to topic, elderly women have a lot to offer the younger ones, in their faith, in their knowledge and experiences.

Blessings

 

[PloughBoy]

You're asking Why? because an older woman Could be the mother of daughters -- mother's are supposed to be both an example Of and a teacher for their daughters.

Back in the Biblical culture and sometimes Now days -- women are put with men as their wives -- it's not a love relationship - it's a 'here you are, you're now my wife, act like one' - so the older women are to teach the younger wives how to love their husbands.

So -- you'd Rather that Scripture said for husbands to teach their wives how to love them? God's Word says what He inspired it to say.

You answer my question of why, in your reply. How did you come to that conclusion? You did not get that information out of the Bible.

Marriages in the Bible was not because people where in "love" and "lust" they where arranged, or if a man rape a unmarried
Woman. Marriages is about being fruitful and multiplying. USA, has distort a lot of people thinking. Westernization is the new kid on the block. LOL. People of the USA think that we are "The Standard", I am sorry to inform you, but we are the converters into secularization. And To keep you from burning in lust, if you cannot control yourself get married, but you will have a lot of trouble. To sinners living together and both wanting to be "The King".

 

[PloughBoy]

Principles of Marriage
(1 Corinthians 7).

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good to abstain from sexual relations.a 2But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.

3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife.

5Do not deprive each other, except by mutual consent and for a time, so you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again, so that Satan will not tempt you through your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Marriages in the Bible was not because people where in "love" and "lust" they where arranged, or if a man rape a unmarried
Woman. Marriages is about being fruitful and multiplying. USA, has distort a lot of people thinking. Westernization is the new kid on the block. LOL. People of the USA think that we are "The Standard", I am sorry to inform you, but we are the converters into secularization. And To keep you from burning in lust, if you cannot control yourself get married, but you will have a lot of trouble. To sinners living together and both wanting to be "The King".

Hitting the nail on the head here brother.

I spoke earlier about the western world ways, also regarding the scripture in your words above

Allow me to add a link for the benefit of all, it is worth reading, it is called 'The Biblical Background to Marriage'

From Jews4Jesus here is the link...

Weddings - Jews for Jesus

Weddings have been part of Jewish and other cultures for millennia, both to celebrate and to make official a marriage. Read about wedding ceremonies here.

jewsforjesus.org

Blessings to all

 

[Brother-Paul]

Principles of Marriage
(1 Corinthians 7).

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good to abstain from sexual relations.a 2But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.

3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife.

5Do not deprive each other, except by mutual consent and for a time, so you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again, so that Satan will not tempt you through your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

I have just been discussing this in another thread on here!

Is Ephesians 5:22-33 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." outdated?

When you are forgotten, rejected and purposely set at naught, and you don't sting and hurt with the insult or the oversight, but your heart is happy and you count it worthy to suffer for Christ -- That is dying to self! When your good is evil spoken of, when your wishes are crossed, your advice...

www.talkjesus.com

Post # 242

Although I didn't include in full all the verses I did suggest the reader should read all 40 verses.

Bless you

PTL

 

[PloughBoy]

And men, you will do better, as the Bible says so.

25Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

29What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong b and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better. c

 

[Sue D.]

God is the One who instituted marriage -- Adam and Eve and their children = 1st family.

 

[PloughBoy]

and was there a ceremony and what did they do, and where did all of the kids come from and who married who? and did they have multiple wives and husbands?

 

[Sue D.]

PloughBoy -- you're familiar with the book of Genesis -- Adam was created as the 1st man and Eve came from him -- God joined them together vs 24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. chapter 4 vs 1 "New Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the Lord."

You know all of this -- Adam lived to be 930 yrs of age. Seth their third that Scripture tells us about lived to be 912 yrs and he had many sons and daughters. When life spans are spread out these many years, they don't know each other as a family unit. Brothers / sisters / cousins would meet not even knowing they're related and marry and continue on with life. That's how this earth was originally populated. After the flood that changed. Life spans shortened and continue to do so. Within the family unit -- everyone lives in close quarters and our average life span is mid-70 - mid 80 or so. That's an Average. AND the book of Leviticus chapter 18 speaks clearly as to sexual relationships. And vs 22 speaks of homosexual intimacy as being an abomination.

It's called Christian / traditional / marriage because a minister unites people " and whatever God puts together , let not man put asunder -- until death do you part." That's what God's intentions were. Men messed it up. Men would decide to throw their wives out the door for whatever reason they wanted to. If a man didn't support them, the woman had no means to support herself for a long time. Divorce was made available but only under certain conditions.

So -- it does amount to men take something wonderful such as marriage that God instituted and manage to mess it up.

 

[Brother-Paul]

You know all of this -- Adam lived to be 930 yrs of age. Seth their third that Scripture tells us about lived to be 912 yrs and he had many sons and daughters. When life spans are spread out these many years, they don't know each other as a family unit. Brothers / sisters / cousins would meet not even knowing they're related and marry and continue on with life.

Greetings Sue,

You seem to see something here I haven't.

You say, when life spans are spread put these many years, they don't know each other as a family unit.

Why wouldn't they?

They lived in the same land, they may live a distance from each other, but how far apart. I am not seeing why they wouldn't know each other as a family, could you elaborate to allow me to see what you see please.

 

[PloughBoy]

Address to Sue, if she doesn't mind.

How many daughters did Adam and Eve have between Cain and Abel? And many daughters total did Adam & Eve have between Cain and Seth?

Genesis 4:19
Then Lamech married for himself two wives: the name of one wasAdah, and the name of the second was Zillah. And what minister married them?

Genesis 6:2
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of "all that they chose". [how many they wanted].

So do you think, the same practices was generated after the flood? And who was the ministers performing marriages before the "ceremonial laws" where given?

When did the one woman one man law come into affect.

Another Question, how does one determine if God puts a marriage together?

 

[Brother-Paul]

PloughBoy -- you're familiar with the book of Genesis -- Adam was created as the 1st man and Eve came from him -- God joined them together vs 24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. chapter 4 vs 1 "New Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the Lord."

You know all of this -- Adam lived to be 930 yrs of age. Seth their third that Scripture tells us about lived to be 912 yrs and he had many sons and daughters. When life spans are spread out these many years, they don't know each other as a family unit. Brothers / sisters / cousins would meet not even knowing they're related and marry and continue on with life. That's how this earth was originally populated. After the flood that changed. Life spans shortened and continue to do so. Within the family unit -- everyone lives in close quarters and our average life span is mid-70 - mid 80 or so. That's an Average. AND the book of Leviticus chapter 18 speaks clearly as to sexual relationships. And vs 22 speaks of homosexual intimacy as being an abomination.

It's called Christian / traditional / marriage because a minister unites people " and whatever God puts together , let not man put asunder -- until death do you part." That's what God's intentions were. Men messed it up. Men would decide to throw their wives out the door for whatever reason they wanted to. If a man didn't support them, the woman had no means to support herself for a long time. Divorce was made available but only under certain conditions.

So -- it does amount to men take something wonderful such as marriage that God instituted and manage to mess it up.

Greeting Sue

In the beginning God.

Then Adam and then Eve, then their children, we are together thus far.

Adam and Eve were married, they were a couple, they were married in God's eyes. No ceremony, no guests, no presents, no wine, no banquet! They were married in the presence of God according to His will for them and mankind, in LOVE and in God's love they loved one another. What a wonderful wedding. no fancy clothes though they may have pit new leaves on. no fancy meal, just the usual vegetarian items God provided for them.

After this they started to multiply, one with another, that is man with woman. They didn't have a wedding but were married in God's presence, in God's eyes.

Then as population grew, came the Laws from God through Moses. It was from then that a civilised structure was created, but marriage from then on was nothing like today, even in Jesus time on earth many men had multiple wives

Betrothal was introduced, which saw know is a man and a woman (a virgin) being promised for one another, this was very special period of preparation for both, but was so often in those days, an arranged marriage. But although arranged still came under the law of God and His love for a man and woman to become one body through marriage.

Marriage is special in the eyes of God, it always was, it always will be this side of Eternity. It is not a surprise therefore that Jesus' first miracle, at Canaan in Galilee, was at a wedding, it is also not surprising God's love is portrayed to all saved souls through Jesus. as a bride and groom, as His beloved Church.

At the time of Jesus, a wedding was a happy time, where the betrothed couple come together, in love for one another, forsaking all others, it included a ceremony, it included a meal, it included up to a week of eating, drinking (in moderation), dancing and giving thanks to God. What a difference to the wedding of Adam and Eve. I have not been to a Jewish wedding, but have been fortunate to meet with Messianic Jews, to listen to their story's, in particular hear about the Jewish wedding and watch them dance, a type of country dancing, a joyful experience.

Sadly over the years a wedding has become more and more materialistic and worldly, becoming less Godly!

The bride wanting a beautiful dress she will wear once, I understand why she would want the best she can but cost is not always considered, it is more I want.

The ceremony has to be as posh as they can get, not always in the same area or country, and they want an honeymoon as well. Where is God in their wedding, sadly for so many pushed out by worldly wants! Materialism, meism and wantism.

I think the best way to conclude this post is to ask, what is marriage, what is a wedding in God's eyes, which part of this stretched out picture is nearest to The Will of God in the marriage of two people, one man and one woman, according to scripture.

 

[Sue D.]

Address to Sue, if she doesn't mind.

How many daughters did Adam and Eve have between Cain and Abel? And many daughters total did Adam & Eve have between Cain and Seth?

Genesis 4:19
Then Lamech married for himself two wives: the name of one wasAdah, and the name of the second was Zillah. And what minister married them?

Genesis 6:2
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of "all that they chose". [how many they wanted].

So do you think, the same practices was generated after the flood? And who was the ministers performing marriages before the "ceremonial laws" where given?

When did the one woman one man law come into affect.

Another Question, how does one determine if God puts a marriage together?

Genesis is the 1st book in the Bible -- book of Beginnings. The first people / man and woman created to be able to bear children together. They were put in the garden of Eden by God. Scripture tells us of their having Cain, Abel and then later on a bit Seth. And Then Scripture tells us they had many sons and daughters -- lots of sisters/ brothers/ cousins to socialize with.

And then the land of Nod - east of Eden is brought into the picture.

Genesis 4:3 "In the process of time it came to pass......" no indication of how Much time was passing -- that happens several times in Scripture.

Oh, ya, and these men were building cities. We're not told how big or small those cities were.

And then your question -- the men were taking wives and your question -- who was marrying them? One point -- back then it was a different kind of culture than we have in the Western world.

God tells us in His Word what He feels we need to know.

So -- what's your point in asking all these questions? Would you like to rewrite Scripture to answer your specific questions?

God Allows a lot -- A man and woman create other little people called babies who grow up to be adults. Two men cannot accomplish that nor can two women accomplish that. And God Also gives specifics about who, how and when people Are to have a sexually intimate relationship. And That is to be Only within the relationship of marriage -- which is Only between one man and one woman. NOT two men or two women.

Who determines / how is it determined if God puts a marriage together? Well -- I guess the couple does. Up until some years ago -- marriage was considered something special in society. People would get married in a church or in a beautiful outdoor wedding or a J.P. I , personally, would rule Out a wedding performed by a J.P. in a court house. If a wedding isn't going to be a very special event in a couples life, why bother getting married. Just stay single.

I was just thinking -- in the book of Numbers -- the Lord told Moses -- in the tabernacle of meeting - to take a census of all the congregation of the Children of Israel. By their families, by their father's houses , names every male individually to go to war. No women are ever mentioned. Does that mean that there were no women? there were children -- so we Assume that there were also Women around to bear the children / produce all the family / clans.

So -- my question Again would be Why all the questions on this subject.

We're talking about a world full of very human people. None of us are perfect -- some Do better than others. But we're still all human beings.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings Sue

Sorry but butting in here.

We are all human beings yes, but not all saved souls.

Only the saved follow Jesus and God's Word, that is why the world is upside down in a mess.

Only Jesus can turn our lives and world the right way up. PTL

 

[Sue D.]

Greeting Sue

In the beginning God.

Then Adam and then Eve, then their children, we are together thus far.

Adam and Eve were married, they were a couple, they were married in God's eyes. No ceremony, no guests, no presents, no wine, no banquet! They were married in the presence of God according to His will for them and mankind, in LOVE and in God's love they loved one another. What a wonderful wedding. no fancy clothes though they may have pit new leaves on. no fancy meal, just the usual vegetarian items God provided for them.

After this they started to multiply, one with another, that is man with woman. They didn't have a wedding but were married in God's presence, in God's eyes.

Then as population grew, came the Laws from God through Moses. It was from then that a civilised structure was created, but marriage from then on was nothing like today, even in Jesus time on earth many men had multiple wives

Betrothal was introduced, which saw know is a man and a woman (a virgin) being promised for one another, this was very special period of preparation for both, but was so often in those days, an arranged marriage. But although arranged still came under the law of God and His love for a man and woman to become one body through marriage.

Marriage is special in the eyes of God, it always was, it always will be this side of Eternity. It is not a surprise therefore that Jesus' first miracle, at Canaan in Galilee, was at a wedding, it is also not surprising God's love is portrayed to all saved souls through Jesus. as a bride and groom, as His beloved Church.

At the time of Jesus, a wedding was a happy time, where the betrothed couple come together, in love for one another, forsaking all others, it included a ceremony, it included a meal, it included up to a week of eating, drinking (in moderation), dancing and giving thanks to God. What a difference to the wedding of Adam and Eve. I have not been to a Jewish wedding, but have been fortunate to meet with Messianic Jews, to listen to their story's, in particular hear about the Jewish wedding and watch them dance, a type of country dancing, a joyful experience.

Sadly over the years a wedding has become more and more materialistic and worldly, becoming less Godly!

The bride wanting a beautiful dress she will wear once, I understand why she would want the best she can but cost is not always considered, it is more I want.

The ceremony has to be as posh as they can get, not always in the same area or country, and they want an honeymoon as well. Where is God in their wedding, sadly for so many pushed out by worldly wants! Materialism, meism and wantism.

I think the best way to conclude this post is to ask, what is marriage, what is a wedding in God's eyes, which part of this stretched out picture is nearest to The Will of God in the marriage of two people, one man and one woman, according to scripture.

Yes, betrothal was introduced -- forgot about that.

As far as weddings are concerned -- they are planned by the couple and are as costly or simple as the couple chooses. And a wedding is as Godly / special as the couple Wants it to be.

You Also seem to have a 'down' attitude towards marriage. or the wedding -- the me-ism / want -ism. It's what the couple Wants it to be. It IS 'their' special time.

There's really no right or wrong way to have a wedding And / Or honeymoon. Lots of people who decide To get married --have a desire to 'do it right'. Start out with a ceremony - a minister - friends with them.

Unfortunately - with the onset of 'unions' same-sex unions, etc. marriage has been cheapened drastically.

But 'we' Can Still take a positive stand / attitude For man/woman marriage. It can be as plain or fancy as the couple chooses. There are a Lot of people who choose to live in together - just in case. Committment to a relationship isn't really taken seriously. As long as they feel they are 'in love' - everything is fine. And the concept Of marriage Can be scary -- dating is Fun. Maybe it's the finality Of marriage. Besides the sex -- there are dishes to wash, clothes to wash -- stinky socks -- garbage to take out. The male - close up and personal -- the woman with PMS every month -- or an unplanned pregnancy. It's like If anything Can go wrong -- it happens After the wedding. How important is that relationship to you and the other person.

 

[Sue D.]

Greetings Sue

Sorry but butting in here.

We are all human beings yes, but not all saved souls.

Only the saved follow Jesus and God's Word, that is why the world is upside down in a mess.

Only Jesus can turn our lives and world the right way up. PTL

Actually, I disagree with some of that. There are some very good, nice people who Aren't born again. There is a sister and brother-in-law who are strong RCC -- not born again - and very nice people. Same with another sister-in-law and husband -- both strong RCC and I can talk to Terry about most anything.

And there are how many couples who truly love one another / very nice people / instead of church , they spend time together -- reading the paper in the morning -- going out on the boat in the afternoon. Spending time with family.
And Those are the very hardest people to 'win to Christ' because they don't really do anything all that bad. They live as good a life as anyone else. Because they are depending on their good lives to amount to something. Or maybe they believe that once we die -- we return to dust and that's all there really Is.

So -- do we take time to share Scripture with them? Maybe that's when trouble Will hit. The non-saved can see how 'we' handle the bad stuff. Or we can encourage them with Scripture when They have hard times.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greeting Sue, the point I am making is that it is nowadays very materialistic, very worldly.

Many woman want their parents to pay for the wedding, that became a custom, but so did the will for more. A more expensive this and that, at a better location, etc, etc.

More worldly, less Godly.

The comparisons made are from, scripture in the beginning with Adam and Eve. Marriage according to God's law.

How marriage was in the early years up to Jesus time. How many wives, arranged marriages, etc. Then as it is today.

I am not against marriage, I am certainly for marriage, of a man and woman, according to God's Word. But we do have to lol at how it has changed from Adam and Eve.

We also cannot say we are in the west we do things this way, it is not a culture thing, it is according to God's Word, there were a lot of changes from Adam to Jesus ministry on earth. So many were not according to God's will but are noted to show the errors.

Just re-reading your message Sue, did you have stinky socks? ;-)

 

[PloughBoy]

(1 Corinthians 7:28).
But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

The Bible does not lie it is Infallible, But men's interpretation of the Bible is fallible !
So let a person choose, scripture or a man's or woman's interpretation. And when you read, 1 Corinthians 7:28, you read it real slow, like molasses flowing on a cool, Sunday morning in the month of March, up north.
Read between the lines and the fine print.