Will We See the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in Heaven, or Just Jesus?

[First and the Last]

A common theological question arises when considering the nature of God and our eternal experience in heaven: Will we see the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or just Jesus? Jesus Christ is the full and complete manifestation of the one true God. Colossians 2:9 states, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," and Jesus Himself declares in John 14:9, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." These scriptures lead to the belief that in heaven, we will see only Jesus, who embodies the fullness of the Godhead. Let's explore this perspective in more depth, considering scriptural evidence and theological implications.

 

[Charlie24]

A common theological question arises when considering the nature of God and our eternal experience in heaven: Will we see the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or just Jesus? Jesus Christ is the full and complete manifestation of the one true God. Colossians 2:9 states, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," and Jesus Himself declares in John 14:9, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." These scriptures lead to the belief that in heaven, we will see only Jesus, who embodies the fullness of the Godhead. Let's explore this perspective in more depth, considering scriptural evidence and theological implications.

I expect to see exactly what John seen when he was called up in the spirit to the Throne of God in Rev. 4-5.

He seen a Throne in heaven and One who sat upon the Throne. He seen the 7 Spirits of God, the Holy Spirit. He seen One who stood in the midst of the Throne a Lamb as if it had been slain who came and took the book out of the right hand of the One who sat on the Throne.

Here we have the 3 persons of God Almighty. That is exactly what I expect to see in heaven.

This scene takes place immediately after the Rapture and at the time the judgements begin on earth. I don't expect to see this scene but I do expect to see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and be able to identify all 3 as did John.

 

[First and the Last]

I expect to see exactly what John seen when he was called up in the spirit to the Throne of God in Rev. 4-5.

He seen a Throne in heaven and One who sat upon the Throne. He seen the 7 Spirits of God, the Holy Spirit. He seen One who stood in the midst of the Throne a Lamb as if it had been slain who came and took the book out of the right hand of the One who sat on the Throne.

Here we have the 3 persons of God Almighty. That is exactly what I expect to see in heaven.

This scene takes place immediately after the Rapture and at the time the judgements begin on earth. I don't expect to see this scene but I do expect to see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and be able to identify all 3 as did John.

So when we get to Heaven which One of the separate Persons do we worship?

 

[B-A-C]

So when we get to Heaven which One of the separate Persons do we worship?

We worship the three persons, who are the one God.
One God does not mean one person.

 

[Charlie24]

So when we get to Heaven which One of the separate Persons do we worship?

I agree with BAC

 

[Charlie24]

So when we get to Heaven which One of the separate Persons do we worship?

It could be that you are one of the many on this earth who can't believe the Trinity because you can't rationalize it.

No one can understand this, the Scripture makes no attempt to explain it.

I see 3 separate persons throughout Scripture acting independently of one another but with the same common cause.

This was given the name Trinity as an identifier, the same as the Rapture is just an identifier.

We can't understand it but can plainly see it in Scripture.

 

[B-A-C]

Who is worshiped in heaven?

Rev 14:7; and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."

Who made the heavens and the Earth?

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

OK, God, but which person of God specifically?

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

It says here that Jesus created everything. ..and He was "with" God, and He was "God". I can be with my wife, but I can't be my wife.

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

So according to Revelation 14:7; we are supposed to worship Him who made the heavens and the Earth.

According the verses below...

John 4:21; Jesus *said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
John 4:23; "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

We should also worship the Father. I know of no verse that says we should worship the Holy Spirit, and I don't know anyone who specifically does this.

Heb 1:6; And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."
Heb 1:7; And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

It says here that the Angels worship Jesus. The verses below say we will worship God who sits on the throne.

Rev 4:10; the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11; "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created."

Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,

OK, then... who is on the throne? The Father or the Son?

Rev 22:1; Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

It would seem Jesus is on the throne with the Father.

 

[B-A-C]

Heb 1:1; God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
Heb 1:2; in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb 1:8 But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

God the Father, calls Jesus the Son, "GOD" in verse 8 here. They are both God, but they are not both the Son, and they are not both the Father.

 

[First and the Last]

It could be that you are one of the many on this earth who can't believe the Trinity because you can't rationalize it.

No one can understand this, the Scripture makes no attempt to explain it.

If Scripture had meant for us to understand God as three separate persons, the Holy Spirit would have clearly communicated this to the original writers. The Bible is our ultimate authority, and its teachings are inspired by God to reveal His nature and will to us. Throughout Scripture, the emphasis is consistently on the oneness of God rather than on a plurality of persons.

For instance, Deuteronomy 6:4, known as the Shema, declares, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." This foundational statement of faith in the Old Testament underscores the singularity of God's nature. When we turn to the New Testament, Jesus reaffirms this oneness. In John 10:30, He states, "I and the Father are one," and in John 14:9, He says, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." These verses emphasize the unity and indivisibility of God rather than distinct, separate persons.

The concept of the Trinity, while well-intentioned to explain the complex relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was developed centuries after the original biblical texts were written. If it were essential for us to understand God in this way, we would expect clear and direct teachings from the apostles and prophets who were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the Scriptures. However, what we find instead is a consistent message of one God who manifests Himself in different ways to accomplish His divine purposes.

The Holy Spirit, who guided the original writers, ensured that the revelation of God was clear and accessible. The Bible's portrayal of God as Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration and indwelling is meant to communicate His oneness and His multifaceted relationship with humanity. As we seek to understand and know God, we trust in the clarity and sufficiency of His Word, allowing it to shape our beliefs and guide our faith in the one true God who has revealed Himself fully in Jesus Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

If Scripture had meant for us to understand God as three separate persons, the Holy Spirit would have clearly communicated this to the original writers. The Bible is our ultimate authority, and its teachings are inspired by God to reveal His nature and will to us. Throughout Scripture, the emphasis is consistently on the oneness of God rather than on a plurality of persons.

For instance, Deuteronomy 6:4, known as the Shema, declares, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." This foundational statement of faith in the Old Testament underscores the singularity of God's nature. When we turn to the New Testament, Jesus reaffirms this oneness. In John 10:30, He states, "I and the Father are one," and in John 14:9, He says, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." These verses emphasize the unity and indivisibility of God rather than distinct, separate persons.

The concept of the Trinity, while well-intentioned to explain the complex relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was developed centuries after the original biblical texts were written. If it were essential for us to understand God in this way, we would expect clear and direct teachings from the apostles and prophets who were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the Scriptures. However, what we find instead is a consistent message of one God who manifests Himself in different ways to accomplish His divine purposes.

The Holy Spirit, who guided the original writers, ensured that the revelation of God was clear and accessible. The Bible's portrayal of God as Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration and indwelling is meant to communicate His oneness and His multifaceted relationship with humanity. As we seek to understand and know God, we trust in the clarity and sufficiency of His Word, allowing it to shape our beliefs and guide our faith in the one true God who has revealed Himself fully in Jesus Christ.

The same could be said of the Oneness theory. If the Holy Spirit had intended for us see God as one person He would have clearly communicated that.

He didn't communicate either! He was silent on this and many other things.

All I can tell you is that I see 3 distinct person working together and at times independent of one another for one common cause.

This can't be denied, or I will say only a foolish person would attempt to do so.

I see no indication whatsoever in Scripture of the possibility of the Almighty God being one person, or if you will the possibility of Modalism.

 

[First and the Last]

The same could be said of the Oneness theory. If the Holy Spirit had intended for us see God as one person He would have clearly communicated that.

He didn't communicate either! He was silent on this and many other things.

All I can tell you is that I see 3 distinct person working together and at times independent of one another for one common cause.

This can't be denied, or I will say only a foolish person would attempt to do so.

I see no indication whatsoever in Scripture of the possibility of the Almighty God being one person, or if you will the possibility of Modalism.

The Bible is not silent on God's oneness but rather consistently affirms it. The development of the doctrine of the Trinity came centuries after the apostolic era, as a way to articulate the mystery of God's nature. While well-intentioned, it introduced complexities that the original Scriptural texts did not explicitly present. Oneness theology seeks to return to the biblical simplicity of understanding God as one, who has manifested Himself as Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration and indwelling.

This perspective does not deny the relational dynamics seen in Scripture but interprets them within the framework of a single, indivisible God. Ultimately, our goal is to remain faithful to the biblical revelation, seeking to know and worship the one true God in all His fullness and majesty.

 

[B-A-C]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Jesus was "with" the Father, you can't be "with" someone, if you are that same someone.

Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Jesus is talking to the Father, He isn't talking to Himself here. He is saying not "my" will, but "your" will.
My will is my will, not someone else's will. My will is not your will about some things.

 

[Charlie24]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Jesus was "with" the Father, you can't be "with" someone, if you are that same someone.

Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Jesus is talking to the Father, He isn't talking to Himself here. He is saying not "my" will, but "your" will.
My will is my will, not someone else's will. My will is not your will about some things.

This is just a few reasons that Modalism is a joke. How one can believe it is mind boggling.

 

[First and the Last]

To distinguishes my view of God from Modalism we need to emphasize the biblical and relational aspects of God's nature as revealed in Scripture. Here’s a summary of my position:

I would like to clarify that the Oneness view of God is fundamentally rooted in the biblical affirmation of God's absolute oneness, as stated in Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." Unlike Modalism, which suggests that God exists in successive modes or manifestations without any real distinction between them, Oneness theology holds that God is a single, indivisible being who simultaneously and eternally manifests Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I would like to point out that Oneness theology rejects the notion that God changes modes or forms in a sequential manner. Instead, Oneness believers understand that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different roles or manifestations of the same God, each serving a distinct purpose in God's relationship with humanity. For instance, God is the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Spirit in regeneration and indwelling of believers.

I emphasize the relational and dynamic nature of God's manifestations. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human, embodying the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). This means that while Jesus prayed to the Father and referred to the Father as greater than Himself, these expressions highlight the genuine humanity (fully human soul) of Jesus and the relational dynamic within the one God, rather than indicating separate divine persons.

I would underscore that the Holy Spirit is not a separate person but the Spirit of the one true God, active in the world today, empowering and indwelling believers. The Holy Spirit's work is an extension of God's presence, not a distinct person apart from the Father and the Son.

 

[First and the Last]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Jesus was "with" the Father, you can't be "with" someone, if you are that same someone.

Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Jesus is talking to the Father, He isn't talking to Himself here. He is saying not "my" will, but "your" will.
My will is my will, not someone else's will. My will is not your will about some things.

Jesus possesses both a divine nature as God and a human nature as a man. His prayer in Gethsemane demonstrates His real human struggle and submission to the divine will. This interaction between Jesus and the Father underscores the distinction between His human will and the divine will, without implying separate divine persons. It shows the depth of Jesus's incarnation, where He fully participates in human experience while being God manifested in the flesh.

The distinction between Jesus's human will and the divine will highlights the complexity of the incarnation. While Jesus's human nature could express a desire distinct from the divine will, His divine nature remained perfectly aligned with the Father's will. This distinction does not imply separate persons within the Godhead but rather reflects the reality of Jesus's dual nature. As a man, He experienced human desires and emotions; as God, He remained in perfect unity with the Father's will.

This moment in Gethsemane reveals the depth of Jesus's incarnation. It shows that God did not merely appear as a man but truly became human, experiencing all aspects of human life, including temptation, suffering, and the need for prayer and reliance on God. Hebrews 4:15 states, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin." This verse emphasizes that Jesus's humanity allows Him to empathize with our struggles and intercede on our behalf.

 

[Charlie24]

To distinguishes my view of God from Modalism we need to emphasize the biblical and relational aspects of God's nature as revealed in Scripture. Here’s a summary of my position:

I would like to clarify that the Oneness view of God is fundamentally rooted in the biblical affirmation of God's absolute oneness, as stated in Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." Unlike Modalism, which suggests that God exists in successive modes or manifestations without any real distinction between them, Oneness theology holds that God is a single, indivisible being who simultaneously and eternally manifests Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I would like to point out that Oneness theology rejects the notion that God changes modes or forms in a sequential manner. Instead, Oneness believers understand that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different roles or manifestations of the same God, each serving a distinct purpose in God's relationship with humanity. For instance, God is the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Spirit in regeneration and indwelling of believers.

I emphasize the relational and dynamic nature of God's manifestations. Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human, embodying the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). This means that while Jesus prayed to the Father and referred to the Father as greater than Himself, these expressions highlight the genuine humanity (fully human soul) of Jesus and the relational dynamic within the one God, rather than indicating separate divine persons.

I would underscore that the Holy Spirit is not a separate person but the Spirit of the one true God, active in the world today, empowering and indwelling believers. The Holy Spirit's work is an extension of God's presence, not a distinct person apart from the Father and the Son.

The Holy Spirit has a will, He grieves, He acts on the will of the Father just as Christ does.

He is a person, First and Last.

 

[Charlie24]

The Holy Spirit has a will, He grieves, He acts on the will of the Father just as Christ does.

He is a person, First and Last.

This goes back to one of my serious problems with the Oneness theology.

The "Jesus' name only doctrine" excludes the Holy Spirit in water baptism.

Christ gave the clear command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit.

They are refusing to obey Christ in their false doctrine.

 

[Charlie24]

This goes back to one of my serious problems with the Oneness theology.

The "Jesus' name only doctrine" excludes the Holy Spirit in water baptism.

Christ gave the clear command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit.

They are refusing to obey Christ in their false doctrine.

The fault lies in trying to interpret Luke's account of water baptism in the Book of Acts to fit into their doctrine, rather than following the direct command of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

It's a slap in the face of our Lord, and there will be consequences!

 

[First and the Last]

This goes back to one of my serious problems with the Oneness theology.

The "Jesus' name only doctrine" excludes the Holy Spirit in water baptism.

Christ gave the clear command to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit.

They are refusing to obey Christ in their false doctrine.

Some claim that the references in Acts do not really mean that the name of Jesus was orally uttered as part of the baptismal formula. However, this appears to be an attempt to twist the language to comply with an erroneous doctrine and practice. Acts 22:16 says, “Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” The Amplified Bible says, “Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name wash away your sins.” The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament says, “Invoking the name.” Therefore this verse of Scripture indicates the name Jesus was orally invoked at baptism. James 2:7 says, “Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?” The Greek phrasing indicates that the name was invoked over the Christians at a specific time. Thus, TAB says, “Is it not they who slander and blaspheme that precious name by which you are distinguished and called [the name of Christ invoked in baptism]?” (brackets in original).

If the many scriptural passages in Acts that refer to water baptism in the name of Jesus do not describe a baptismal formula, then it is equally true that Matthew 28:19 does not indicate a formula. This interpretation would leave the church without any baptismal formula to distinguish Christian baptism from Jewish proselyte baptism and heathen baptism. But the Lord did not leave us without a baptismal formula; the church correctly carried out the instructions Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19 when the apostles used the name of Jesus in water baptism.

 

[Charlie24]

Some claim that the references in Acts do not really mean that the name of Jesus was orally uttered as part of the baptismal formula. However, this appears to be an attempt to twist the language to comply with an erroneous doctrine and practice. Acts 22:16 says, “Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” The Amplified Bible says, “Rise and be baptized, and by calling upon His name wash away your sins.” The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament says, “Invoking the name.” Therefore this verse of Scripture indicates the name Jesus was orally invoked at baptism. James 2:7 says, “Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?” The Greek phrasing indicates that the name was invoked over the Christians at a specific time. Thus, TAB says, “Is it not they who slander and blaspheme that precious name by which you are distinguished and called [the name of Christ invoked in baptism]?” (brackets in original).

If the many scriptural passages in Acts that refer to water baptism in the name of Jesus do not describe a baptismal formula, then it is equally true that Matthew 28:19 does not indicate a formula. This interpretation would leave the church without any baptismal formula to distinguish Christian baptism from Jewish proselyte baptism and heathen baptism. But the Lord did not leave us without a baptismal formula; the church correctly carried out the instructions Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19 when the apostles used the name of Jesus in water baptism.

Wake up, First and the Last!!!

We are not to guess at the baptismal formula in Acts when Christ Himself has already given it!

Acts is the account of what happened and is obviously incomplete on all that was said and done.