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Luke 10:19
- Thread starter Rob Cragg
- Start date
Jaareshiah
Member
When the "seventy" of Jesus disciples returned from preaching about God's kingdom, these rejoiced that "even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name."(Luke 10:17) Jesus then says: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."(verse 18) He therefore says to the "seventy": "Look! I have given you the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will by any means do you hurt."(verse 19)
Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom in this "time of the end", Satan and his demons were to be cast out of heaven, which happened in 1914.(Rev 12:7-9) But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans served as added assurance of that coming event, almost two thousand years later. Therefore, Jesus spoke of the future fall of Satan from heaven as an absolute certainty. Hence, it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given "authority to trample serpents and scorpions", by expelling the demons.
Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom in this "time of the end", Satan and his demons were to be cast out of heaven, which happened in 1914.(Rev 12:7-9) But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans served as added assurance of that coming event, almost two thousand years later. Therefore, Jesus spoke of the future fall of Satan from heaven as an absolute certainty. Hence, it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given "authority to trample serpents and scorpions", by expelling the demons.
I'm not trying to argue but how did you figure satan was cast out in 1914?When the "seventy" of Jesus disciples returned from preaching about God's kingdom, these rejoiced that "even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name."(Luke 10:17) Jesus then says: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."(verse 18) He therefore says to the "seventy": "Look! I have given you the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will by any means do you hurt."(verse 19)
Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom in this "time of the end", Satan and his demons were to be cast out of heaven, which happened in 1914.(Rev 12:7-9) But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans served as added assurance of that coming event, almost two thousand years later. Therefore, Jesus spoke of the future fall of Satan from heaven as an absolute certainty. Hence, it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given "authority to trample serpents and scorpions", by expelling the demons.
Jaareshiah
Member
I'm not trying to argue but how did you figure satan was cast out in 1914?
Hello Rob,
At Luke 10:18, after the seventy had returned from casting out demons by the name of Jesus, Jesus then envisioned the appointed time when Satan himself, as "ruler of the demons", would be cast out of heaven itself.(Luke 11:14) He was well aware that Satan and his demons, upon their casting out, would be restricted to the vicinity of the earth.
In the book of Revelation, there is seen a "war (that) broke out in heaven; And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:7-9, King James Bible)
This war was unseen by human eyes, but it's effect was clearly seen. Just as electricity is invisible, but what it does is visible, so likewise of the war, invisible but the results of it is visible even down to this day. Revelation 12:12 states that as a result of Satan being thrown out of heaven, that there is "woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." Hence, a direct result of Satan's ouster, is causing "woe" or great troubles on the earth during the "short period of time" that he has before his being thrown "into the abyss" or state of inactivity.(Rev 20:1-3) Has not there been great troubles during the past one hundred years, such as two global wars.
So, how can it be determined when Satan was cast out of heaven ? At Revelation 6:2, there is seen a ' rider on a white horse ' that is given a "crown". Who is this ? Revelation 19 says that "the Word of God" is seated on a "white horse", who leads his armies against "the kings of the earth".(Rev 19:19)
Who is the "Word of God" ? John 1 identifies the "Word" as Jesus Christ. Hence, Jesus as the ' rider of the white horse, ' is given a "crown" as king of God's kingdom. Immediately, ' peace was taken away from the earth' so that "they should slaughter one another", with the "rider" on the "fiery-colored horse" wielding a "great sword".(Rev 6:3, 4) Why ? Because at this time, the first thing Jesus did in becoming king was to "clean house" and therefore cast Satan and his demons out of heaven and down to the vicinity of the earth.
When and how did this prophetic drama unfold ? When was the first time that ' peace was taken away from the earth ', whereby mankind slaughtered "one another" ? With the outbreak of World War I in 1914. On June 28, 1914, a young Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, assassinated the Archduke of Austria and his wife, and thus setting in motion the beginning of World War I on July 28, 1914 and lasting until 1918, with an estimated 21 million soldiers and civilians killed. Thus, Satan caused great troubles or "woe" on the earth with his ouster from heaven in 1914 and continues to do, until God's appointed time to throw him "in the abyss".
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Hello Rob,
At Luke 10:18, after the seventy had returned from casting out demons by the name of Jesus, Jesus then envisioned the appointed time when Satan himself, as "ruler of the demons", would be cast out of heaven itself.(Luke 11:14) He was well aware that Satan and his demons, upon their casting out, would be restricted to the vicinity of the earth.
In the book of Revelation, there is seen a "war (that) broke out in heaven; And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev 12:7-9, King James Bible)
This war was unseen by human eyes, but it's effect was clearly seen. Just as electricity is invisible, but what it does is visible, so likewise of the war, invisible but the results of it is visible even down to this day. Revelation 12:12 states that as a result of Satan being thrown out of heaven, that there is "woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." Hence, a direct result of Satan's ouster, is causing "woe" or great troubles on the earth during the "short period of time" that he has before his being thrown "into the abyss" or state of inactivity.(Rev 20:1-3) Has not there been great troubles during the past one hundred years, such as two global wars.
So, how can it be determined when Satan was cast out of heaven ? At Revelation 6:2, there is seen a ' rider on a white horse ' that is given a "crown". Who is this ? Revelation 19 says that "the Word of God" is seated on a "white horse", who leads his armies against "the kings of the earth".(Rev 19:19)
Who is the "Word of God" ? John 1 identifies the "Word" as Jesus Christ. Hence, Jesus as the ' rider of the white horse, ' is given a "crown" as king of God's kingdom. Immediately, ' peace was taken away from the earth' so that "they should slaughter one another", with the "rider" on the "fiery-colored horse" wielding a "great sword".(Rev 6:3, 4) Why ? Because at this time, the first thing Jesus did in becoming king was to "clean house" and therefore cast Satan and his demons out of heaven and down to the vicinity of the earth.
When and how did this prophetic drama unfold ? When was the first time that ' peace was taken away from the earth ', whereby mankind slaughtered "one another" ? With the outbreak of World War I in 1914. On June 28, 1914, a young Serbian man, Gavrilo Princip, assassinated the Archduke of Austria and his wife, and thus setting in motion the beginning of World War I on July 28, 1914 and lasting until 1918, with an estimated 21 million soldiers and civilians killed. Thus, Satan caused great troubles or "woe" on the earth with his ouster from heaven in 1914 and continues to do, until God's appointed time to throw him "in the abyss".
A little more world history studying will show that there were many wars like "world war 1" all through history. Study the rise of the Roman empire. Europe has a long history of such wars also.
At any rate, I think your dating method here is very inconclusive and speculatory.
I don't want to sound negative towards anyone, but the battle in the heavenlies has really no date that it can be attached to it. Actually in Revelation 12:9 is refering to a war between the good angels and satan and his angels actually going back to V. 7 Michael is an archangel, the dragon is satan and his angels where those who sided with satan in his attemp to over thrown God. In Gen. 3:1 where it says serpent is refering to satan. Orginally he was Lucifer a good angel who God placed in the Garden to watch over it. So then He started the heavenly war when he thought he was better than God and then He was cast to out of Heaven sometime probally before Adam was greated. The fall of Lucifer is refered to in Isaiah 14:12-15. If you go to the Book of Job 1: 7 & 8 you will see Satan was already on the earth. In Revelation 19:11 the one on the white horse is Jesus the battle that is in progress now is the battle of Armageddon in which Jesus will destroy all the evil nations and satan and his forces.
So I would say lets agree to disagree. Our Friendship is more important.
Brother Rob
So I would say lets agree to disagree. Our Friendship is more important.
Brother Rob
Jaareshiah
Member
Hello Rob,
History has indeed been riddled with wars. At Daniel 11, there the "king of the north" is seen as opposing the "king of the south", with both sides winning victories. However, these were not global wars, but rather just regional, with one country fighting against another. On the other hand, when Jesus was crowned king of God's kingdom, the result was global warfare, with 93 percent of the world's population being involved in WWI. Revelation 6:3, 4 said that, upon Jesus, as the rider of the "white horse" being given a "crown", immediately there followed the"rider" on the "fiery-colored horse" that was "granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another....(with) a great sword."
When, for the first time in history, has the entire earth been decimated by war ? When was the first time that ' peace was taken away from the earth' ? Prior to 1914, no global war had ever occurred. In addition, Revelation 6 gives more details, that as a result of world-wide war, stark famine would strike, for Revelation 6:5, 6 says that a "black horse" appears, with it's "rider" carrying a "pair of scales". A quart of wheat, a normal staple in the middle east during John's time, would cost a "denarius", an entire day's wage and of the less nutritious barley, 3 quarts.
Something else to consider, is that the fourth horse, "a pale horse", the "rider" was given ' authority over "the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with deadly food shortage and with deadly plague".(Rev 6:8) How did the "rider" on the "pale horse" kill "with deadly plague" ?
In the spring of 1918, the Spanish Influenza (H1N1) began, with many investigators tracing it's origin to Kansas, U.S.A. After a sharp increase in influenza deaths, by July 1918 it seemed that the worst was over. But it was not. When World War I ended on November 11, 1918, the world rejoiced. Ironically, at almost that same time, the pestilence broke out earth wide. It was a monster that now claimed international headlines. Few who lived through that time were untouched, and all were frightened.
In a relatively short time, the flu had killed more people than any other pandemic of its kind in human history. A common estimate of worldwide deaths was 21 million, but some experts now judge that figure to be low. Some epidemiologists today suggest that a more likely toll is 50 million deaths or perhaps as many as 100 million ! Notes John M. Barry, in his book The Great Influenza (2004): “Influenza killed more people in a year than the Black Death of the Middle Ages killed in a century; it killed more people in twenty-four weeks than AIDS has killed in twenty-four years.” Thus, 1918-1919 Spanish flu pandemic has been the worse to ever to hit the face of the earth in history.
Hence, within a short period of time from the ' rider on the white horse', Jesus Christ being given a "crown", mankind saw more destructive loss of life than ever before. Thus, with Jesus installment as king in 1914, a series of catastrophic events quickly followed in succession, as seen at Revelation 6:2-8.
Also, Matthew 24 is to be considered, for at Matthew 24:3, Jesus disciples asked: "what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” Hence, Jesus disciples were asking how it would be determined when his invisible "promised presence" had begun and the beginning of the "conclusion of the system of things", asking for a "sign". Jesus replied: "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." This ties in with Revelation 6.
Hence, as at Revelation 6, whereby "peace is taken away from the earth" as a result of Jesus being crowned king, Jesus is explaining that his invisible "presence" in kingdom power would be visibly recognized by the feature of global war, among other features. Jesus also stated that this global war was only the "beginning of pangs of distress." Conditions would steadily deteriorate from his enthronement in 1914 until the beginning of the "great tribulation".(Matt 24:15-21)
Note: In the "State of the World 1999"[Worldwatch Institute], it said that :"Three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899,” Hence, the 20th century could be considered as the century of warfare, global war.
History has indeed been riddled with wars. At Daniel 11, there the "king of the north" is seen as opposing the "king of the south", with both sides winning victories. However, these were not global wars, but rather just regional, with one country fighting against another. On the other hand, when Jesus was crowned king of God's kingdom, the result was global warfare, with 93 percent of the world's population being involved in WWI. Revelation 6:3, 4 said that, upon Jesus, as the rider of the "white horse" being given a "crown", immediately there followed the"rider" on the "fiery-colored horse" that was "granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another....(with) a great sword."
When, for the first time in history, has the entire earth been decimated by war ? When was the first time that ' peace was taken away from the earth' ? Prior to 1914, no global war had ever occurred. In addition, Revelation 6 gives more details, that as a result of world-wide war, stark famine would strike, for Revelation 6:5, 6 says that a "black horse" appears, with it's "rider" carrying a "pair of scales". A quart of wheat, a normal staple in the middle east during John's time, would cost a "denarius", an entire day's wage and of the less nutritious barley, 3 quarts.
Something else to consider, is that the fourth horse, "a pale horse", the "rider" was given ' authority over "the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with deadly food shortage and with deadly plague".(Rev 6:8) How did the "rider" on the "pale horse" kill "with deadly plague" ?
In the spring of 1918, the Spanish Influenza (H1N1) began, with many investigators tracing it's origin to Kansas, U.S.A. After a sharp increase in influenza deaths, by July 1918 it seemed that the worst was over. But it was not. When World War I ended on November 11, 1918, the world rejoiced. Ironically, at almost that same time, the pestilence broke out earth wide. It was a monster that now claimed international headlines. Few who lived through that time were untouched, and all were frightened.
In a relatively short time, the flu had killed more people than any other pandemic of its kind in human history. A common estimate of worldwide deaths was 21 million, but some experts now judge that figure to be low. Some epidemiologists today suggest that a more likely toll is 50 million deaths or perhaps as many as 100 million ! Notes John M. Barry, in his book The Great Influenza (2004): “Influenza killed more people in a year than the Black Death of the Middle Ages killed in a century; it killed more people in twenty-four weeks than AIDS has killed in twenty-four years.” Thus, 1918-1919 Spanish flu pandemic has been the worse to ever to hit the face of the earth in history.
Hence, within a short period of time from the ' rider on the white horse', Jesus Christ being given a "crown", mankind saw more destructive loss of life than ever before. Thus, with Jesus installment as king in 1914, a series of catastrophic events quickly followed in succession, as seen at Revelation 6:2-8.
Also, Matthew 24 is to be considered, for at Matthew 24:3, Jesus disciples asked: "what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” Hence, Jesus disciples were asking how it would be determined when his invisible "promised presence" had begun and the beginning of the "conclusion of the system of things", asking for a "sign". Jesus replied: "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." This ties in with Revelation 6.
Hence, as at Revelation 6, whereby "peace is taken away from the earth" as a result of Jesus being crowned king, Jesus is explaining that his invisible "presence" in kingdom power would be visibly recognized by the feature of global war, among other features. Jesus also stated that this global war was only the "beginning of pangs of distress." Conditions would steadily deteriorate from his enthronement in 1914 until the beginning of the "great tribulation".(Matt 24:15-21)
Note: In the "State of the World 1999"[Worldwatch Institute], it said that :"Three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899,” Hence, the 20th century could be considered as the century of warfare, global war.
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Hello Rob,
History has indeed been riddled with wars. At Daniel 11, there the "king of the north" is seen as opposing the "king of the south", with both sides winning victories. However, these were not global wars, but rather just regional, with one country fighting against another. On the other hand, when Jesus was crowned king of God's kingdom, the result was global warfare, with 93 percent of the world's population being involved in WWI. Revelation 6:3, 4 said that, upon Jesus, as the rider of the "white horse" being given a "crown", immediately there followed the"rider" on the "fiery-colored horse" that was "granted to take peace away from the earth so that they should slaughter one another....(with) a great sword."
When, for the first time in history, has the entire earth been decimated by war ? When was the first time that ' peace was taken away from the earth' ? Prior to 1914, no global war had ever occurred. In addition, Revelation 6 gives more details, that as a result of world-wide war, stark famine would strike, for Revelation 6:5, 6 says that a "black horse" appears, with it's "rider" carrying a "pair of scales". A quart of wheat, a normal staple in the middle east during John's time, would cost a "denarius", an entire day's wage and of the less nutritious barley, 3 quarts.
Something else to consider, is that the fourth horse, "a pale horse", the "rider" was given ' authority over "the fourth part of the earth, to kill with a long sword and with deadly food shortage and with deadly plague".(Rev 6:8) How did the "rider" on the "pale horse" kill "with deadly plague" ?
In the spring of 1918, the Spanish Influenza (H1N1) began, with many investigators tracing it's origin to Kansas, U.S.A. After a sharp increase in influenza deaths, by July 1918 it seemed that the worst was over. But it was not. When World War I ended on November 11, 1918, the world rejoiced. Ironically, at almost that same time, the pestilence broke out earth wide. It was a monster that now claimed international headlines. Few who lived through that time were untouched, and all were frightened.
In a relatively short time, the flu had killed more people than any other pandemic of its kind in human history. A common estimate of worldwide deaths was 21 million, but some experts now judge that figure to be low. Some epidemiologists today suggest that a more likely toll is 50 million deaths or perhaps as many as 100 million ! Notes John M. Barry, in his book The Great Influenza (2004): “Influenza killed more people in a year than the Black Death of the Middle Ages killed in a century; it killed more people in twenty-four weeks than AIDS has killed in twenty-four years.” Thus, 1918-1919 Spanish flu pandemic has been the worse to ever to hit the face of the earth in history.
Hence, within a short period of time from the ' rider on the white horse', Jesus Christ being given a "crown", mankind saw more destructive loss of life than ever before. Thus, with Jesus installment as king in 1914, a series of catastrophic events quickly followed in succession, as seen at Revelation 6:2-8.
Also, Matthew 24 is to be considered, for at Matthew 24:3, Jesus disciples asked: "what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” Hence, Jesus disciples were asking how it would be determined when his invisible "promised presence" had begun and the beginning of the "conclusion of the system of things", asking for a "sign". Jesus replied: "For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." This ties in with Revelation 6.
Hence, as at Revelation 6, whereby "peace is taken away from the earth" as a result of Jesus being crowned king, Jesus is explaining that his invisible "presence" in kingdom power would be visibly recognized by the feature of global war, among other features. Jesus also stated that this global war was only the "beginning of pangs of distress." Conditions would steadily deteriorate from his enthronement in 1914 until the beginning of the "great tribulation".(Matt 24:15-21)
Note: In the "State of the World 1999"[Worldwatch Institute], it said that :"Three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899,” Hence, the 20th century could be considered as the century of warfare, global war.
although many facts stated are very compeling.
The fact that there can actually be a date set for the events that happened in heaven is a very very bold claim. We dont know the accuracy of much of what time certain events took place just a hundred years before today on earth, let alone know what has happened in heavens history. I see that this is much fact mixed with much theory. Although i do appreciate the amount of time it looks like it took to study this material you stated.
" Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
Are such promises for the first 82 preachers only?
Surely not for Jesus said "He that believeth and them that belive ....would be able to do his works.....Mtt 17: 20. Mtt 21:22. Mk 9: 23. 11: 22 -24 etc
To tread upon, means to have absolute authority over. As is clear in Ps:91 13. Ps 108:13. ect Christians are to have power over all power of the devil, and nothing shall by any means hurt them.
Comparison with Mtt 10: 16-22.and the actual history of the apostles and others, we know that this exemption from being hurt does not imply freedom from all physical or material injury, for many died for Jesus
The serpents and scorpians" and all the power of the enemy, refer to demon powers primarily, although immunity from wild beast and from poison is also promised. Ps 91. Mk16: 17,18. Acts 28:5.
The whole passage speaks of 'serpants' 'devils' satan' 'scorpions' 'power of the enemy....against the Saints...those who love Jesus'
But victory is assured "for nothing shall by any means hurt you"
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All I mean is as far as Revelation John was shown things that did happen, are happening now, and things yet to come, In heaven it is eterinity therefore I believe that you can not put a time or date to anything, and not all events are in any particular order. Now that is how I believe, I can not say it is rock solid scripture. If I made that impression I'm sorry.
The main thing I believe is there is coming a day when all true Christians will be in Heaven with Jesus.
The main thing I believe is there is coming a day when all true Christians will be in Heaven with Jesus.