What Happened?

[The Robster]

I understand that we have authority but we do not have all of Christ's authority and power. Do you have authority over the body of Christ? Do you have the power to give salvation?

Here is the biggest problem I have against "word of faith" teachings, it's all about self, who I am, the power I have, the authority I have. It's some very evident "I" trouble. Which is why we try to discourage it here @ TalkJesus.

C'mon Jiggy you know fully well that Jesus never promised us any authority to forgive sins nor any authority over His Body. But He sure made some bold declarations about the authority we have in His name. I'm sorry but you are bringing up these points as if Christians are walking around claiming that they can forgive sins or that they have authority over Jesus' body and this just isn't happening as far as I know.

 

[The Robster]

Here is something to think about, and as this is a what for and what if thread.

I think God is pretty disgusted with most Churches and with people in general. They tend to believe what they want to believe, and if a preacher preaches to them what they want to hear, they flock to him in droves. They listen to him and not God. It is much easier that way, and it pacifies the sinful mind, makes the excuses you want to hear, and with time it destroys society.

So if you go to a church like that, and go along with things, God is not going to listen to you.

So what am I talking about?? Permissiveness mainly, acceptance, and liberal attitudes. So liberal anything goes. Do not discipline anyone, or step on any toes, just tolerate all and anything as God is totally love, and we should leave it all up to God.

Did you ever stop to think that when God says he gave us the power to step on snakes he meant it?? Or did he mean to just make pet out of that snake and let it bite you??

In the real world an example would be a man who walks into a store and kills the clerk , robs the store and so on. So the world debates about what to do, should they have a trial, if so should the punish the man, and no just wait a moment, we shall send him to counseling and be nice to him. Then let him out again so he can do this crime again. Then when after some 30 years he is judged to die some church makes up signs and goes and marches up and down in front of the prison demanding he have another chance.

I use that as an example, it is the best one I can think of, toleration destroys society, and burdens it with expense and taxes and leaves little in the way of appreciation for God. They have allowed themselves to be fooled and become corrupt in the name of love. God is given credit for the reverse of his will.

I do not agree with very much in modern society, from the above to the toleration of homosexuals in the church and in the military, to many other things, and I really do believe those that to tolerate these things, and go along and become convinced in their hearts it is ok, have left God and followed man.

My grand kids think I am terrible, why, because around me they are respectful, they do not fuss, they do not mis-behave and I am strict but kind. It is not ok to sass me, or to tell me I am not going to do that and there is nothing you can do about it because if you do I will run to school and tell teacher and they will throw you in jail. I do not want to obey you so there. That make me so sad, I see it in my family, and in the world, total acceptance, all is well, it is total love and leave it to God. Do not act yourself you are supposed to love.

Ya know love is doing what is right, to make all in order and harmony.

That is why God does not listen anymore, he is totally disgusted.
So if you are so, then God has his ears shut.

That is why God does not answer, why he does not listen. God is not harsh but just and fair and the world has left his way for mans way. The church is so far from common sense and Gods way........well it just makes me sad. But that is why God does not listen.

Kit

Oh so you think God is pretty disgusted with churches and people in general? Did God share this with you? Did you just have a private briefing? Because my Jesus, who brought the gospel of grace, was not disgusted with people one bit. He wanted them to repent and to enjoy God's favor through His perfect work. Let me guess, you go to a church that is constantly preaching condemnation and how we need to attack sin and judge everybody, blah blah blah. If God was truly disgusted with people and his churches He would have wiped us all out a long time ago and wouldn't even have bothered sending Jesus for our sakes. God certainly sees strengths and weaknesses in the churches and in His people today. But He is not disgusted with people, especially with Christians. How could He be disgusted? We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We stand blameless before God because of Jesus' blood. If God is disgusted with people then He must be disgusted at Himself because when we stand before the Lord, we stand blameless and righteous because of Jesus' blood. I think that if there is one thing that bothers God about the church today, its how so many churches and Christians are condemning and judging people. And that opinion is based on scripture. Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn and judge. He came to save. So why are so many churches and Christians preaching condemnation to people and preaching the exact opposite of what Jesus preached?

 

[TheDJ]

Oh so you think God is pretty disgusted with churches and people in general? Did God share this with you? Did you just have a private briefing? Because my Jesus, who brought the gospel of grace, was not disgusted with people one bit. He wanted them to repent and to enjoy God's favor through His perfect work. Let me guess, you go to a church that is constantly preaching condemnation and how we need to attack sin and judge everybody, blah blah blah. If God was truly disgusted with people and his churches He would have wiped us all out a long time ago and wouldn't even have bothered sending Jesus for our sakes. God certainly sees strengths and weaknesses in the churches and in His people today. But He is not disgusted with people, especially with Christians. How could He be disgusted? We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We stand blameless before God because of Jesus' blood. If God is disgusted with people then He must be disgusted at Himself because when we stand before the Lord, we stand blameless and righteous because of Jesus' blood. I think that if there is one thing that bothers God about the church today, its how so many churches and Christians are condemning and judging people. And that opinion is based on scripture. Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn and judge. He came to save. So why are so many churches and Christians preaching condemnation to people and preaching the exact opposite of what Jesus preached?

Yes the Lord is disgusted with some of the churches today that have false preachers, pastors etc. Churches that are not about worshiping the Lord. We are living in the time of the church of Laodicea. Here is what the Lord says: Revelation 3:14-22

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30762">15</sup>I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30763">16</sup>So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30764">17</sup>Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30765">18</sup>I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30766">19</sup>As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30767">20</sup>Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30768">21</sup>To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30769">22</sup>He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Yes, the Lord loves us and cares about us, but when false teachers, people who love themselves, love their money, but do not love God, then God says he wants to spit them out of his mouth. Here he is talking about the church! So yes, he is disgusted with us, the way churches are operating, because their is no worship and true teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Their are so many churches today which are not true churches. What I mean is they are preaching false doctrine, not preaching the Cross of Christ. There are even churches that you can go buy a coffee so people can go sit and sip their coffees during the service!!

It is getting to the point where church is not about worshiping the Lord, but about socializing, and yes the Lord is cannot be happy with that.

 

[The Robster]

Yes the Lord is disgusted with some of the churches today that have false preachers, pastors etc. Churches that are not about worshiping the Lord. We are living in the time of the church of Laodicea. Here is what the Lord says: Revelation 3:14-22

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; <SUP id=en-KJV-30762 class=versenum>15</SUP>I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30763 class=versenum>16</SUP>So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30764 class=versenum>17</SUP>Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
<SUP id=en-KJV-30765 class=versenum>18</SUP>I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30766 class=versenum>19</SUP>As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30767 class=versenum>20</SUP>Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30768 class=versenum>21</SUP>To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30769 class=versenum>22</SUP>He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Yes, the Lord loves us and cares about us, but when false teachers, people who love themselves, love their money, but do not love God, then God says he wants to spit them out of his mouth. Here he is talking about the church! So yes, he is disgusted with us, the way churches are operating, because their is no worship and true teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Their are so many churches today which are not true churches. What I mean is they are preaching false doctrine, not preaching the Cross of Christ. There are even churches that you can go buy a coffee so people can go sit and sip their coffees during the service!!

It is getting to the point where church is not about worshiping the Lord, but about socializing, and yes the Lord is cannot be happy with that.

No where in those scriptures do I see God saying he is DISGUSTED. What i do see Him doing there is pointing out the criticisms and weaknesses. Maybe you should look to see how the word DISGUSTED is defined so you can see its not an appropriate word to use to describe His saints.



Revelation 3:14-22 (Amplified Bible)


<SUP id=en-AMP-30760 class=versenum>14</SUP>And to the angel (messenger) of the assembly (church) in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the trusty and faithful and true Witness, the Origin and Beginning and Author of God's creation:<SUP class=xref value='(A)'>(A)</SUP>
<SUP id=en-AMP-30761 class=versenum>15</SUP>I know your [record of] works and what you are doing; you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot!
<SUP id=en-AMP-30762 class=versenum>16</SUP>So, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth!
<SUP id=en-AMP-30763 class=versenum>17</SUP>For you say, I am rich; I have prospered and grown wealthy, and I am in need of nothing; and you do not realize and understand that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.<SUP class=xref value='(B)'>(B)</SUP>
<SUP id=en-AMP-30764 class=versenum>18</SUP>Therefore I counsel you to purchase from Me gold refined and tested by fire, that you may be [truly] wealthy, and white clothes to clothe you and to keep the shame of your nudity from being seen, and salve to put on your eyes, that you may see.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30765 class=versenum>19</SUP>Those whom I [dearly and tenderly] love, I tell their faults and convict and convince and reprove and chasten [I discipline and instruct them]. So be enthusiastic and in earnest and burning with zeal and repent [changing your mind and attitude].<SUP class=xref value='(C)'>(C)</SUP>
<SUP id=en-AMP-30766 class=versenum>20</SUP>Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears and listens to and heeds My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will eat with him, and he [will eat] with Me.
<SUP id=en-AMP-30767 class=versenum>21</SUP>He who overcomes (is victorious), I will grant him to sit beside Me on My throne, as I Myself overcame (was victorious) and sat down beside My Father on His throne. <SUP id=en-AMP-30768 class=versenum>22</SUP>He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the [Holy] Spirit says to the assemblies (churches).

Verse 19 is precisely the reason why its not appropriate to use the word DISGUSTED for His saints. Sure we have many churches that are doing things that don't honor God but you better be careful you aren't in one yourself. The things that make the Lord frown upon within churches goes way beyond people sipping coffee in the pews. Which I personally think is a bit disrespectful towards the Lord. I mean the church is not a coffee lounge. lol I can understand people drinking coffee outside the service but not while the service is taking place.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

So, let me get this right, you believe that Jesus does not have authority over people? Then what exactly is He Lord of? Is He a king without a kingdom? Seems to me that your teaching that believers are equal to Christ in power and authority.

If the word of faith teachings are not all about self but rather about Jesus then I hope I can see the evidence of this in your future posts.

Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits at God's right hand in the place of honor and power. Let heaven fill your thoughts. Do not think only about things down here on earth. For you died when Christ died, and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. And when Christ, who is your [fn] real life, is revealed to the whole world, you will share in all his glory. Colossians 3:1-4

Jigger When was the last time Jesus or even the Father Himself forced you to do something? Never. Why? He does not have that authority He gave you the freedom to choose every part of your life. God could force an issue with you but if He did He would be breaking His own rules. God is a King with a kingdom that has laws. Even a king has to rule by laws.
So I see you confusing ability with authority? Is that possible?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Those dudes ate a roasted lamb and all left supernaturally healed the next day and left with silver and hold!

"The Lord replied, 'I have forgiven them, as you (Moses) asked. Nevertheless, as surely as I live, and as surely as the glory of the Lord fills the whole earth, not one of the men who saw my glory and the miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the desert but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times - not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers. (Nu 14:20-23 NIV)

When the Israelites left Egypt with all that silver and gold, they began a spiritual journey that took them away from God's favor and, with the exception of Joshua and Caleb, they all died without seeing The Promised Land.

SLE

 

[jiggyfly]

Jigger When was the last time Jesus or even the Father Himself forced you to do something? Never. Why? He does not have that authority He gave you the freedom to choose every part of your life. God could force an issue with you but if He did He would be breaking His own rules. God is a King with a kingdom that has laws. Even a king has to rule by laws.
So I see you confusing ability with authority? Is that possible?

Ahh then did you choose your parents or the color of your eyes and hair? This is another huge error with that kind of paradigm, God does not need anyone permission to do what He wants here in the earth or in anyone's life.:wink:

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Ahh then did you choose your parents or the color of your eyes and hair? This is another huge error with that kind of paradigm, God does not need anyone permission to do what He wants here in the earth or in anyone's life.:wink:

My parents and my features are a result of a system God set into motion a few thousand years ago Genetics.

You told me "God does not need anyone permission to do what He wants here in the earth or in anyone's life"

All I can say to that is Don't tell me!! Tell Him!! Tell Him He made a mistake in how He runs things.

 

[Kit Carson]

Oh so you think God is pretty disgusted with churches and people in general? Did God share this with you? Did you just have a private briefing? Because my Jesus, who brought the gospel of grace, was not disgusted with people one bit. He wanted them to repent and to enjoy God's favor through His perfect work. Let me guess, you go to a church that is constantly preaching condemnation and how we need to attack sin and judge everybody, blah blah blah. If God was truly disgusted with people and his churches He would have wiped us all out a long time ago and wouldn't even have bothered sending Jesus for our sakes. God certainly sees strengths and weaknesses in the churches and in His people today. But He is not disgusted with people, especially with Christians. How could He be disgusted? We are the righteousness of God in Christ. We stand blameless before God because of Jesus' blood. If God is disgusted with people then He must be disgusted at Himself because when we stand before the Lord, we stand blameless and righteous because of Jesus' blood. I think that if there is one thing that bothers God about the church today, its how so many churches and Christians are condemning and judging people. And that opinion is based on scripture. Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn and judge. He came to save. So why are so many churches and Christians preaching condemnation to people and preaching the exact opposite of what Jesus preached?

Yes Sir I stand by it all the way. It is tempered some so I will not get kicked off. I have a reason for being here and to challenge things is one of them.

The world which is greatly influenced by the modern church and religion becomes so tolerant of all things, all one has to do is read Gods word, study it, and as God talks to you , you know it is not at all right.

From the child who is totally arrogant and tells his mother that she cannot spank him or he will report her to the school or church and backed up by the school or church. Which only promotes more arrogance due to tolerance, to accepting all things against Gods way into the Church just to keep the boat from rocking is very wrong. This is destroying society.

It has become an accepted way. It is what is taught , it is what is now society.

Yes many things are very wrong.

If I want to go get a boyfriend tomorrow and come to your church and get married, what are you going to do?? Are you going to tell me no and council me on my sin, or are you going to allow it, or maybe not all of it but tolerate me. What are you going to do to me?? I bet that out of so called love you allow me to stay. No matter what I do, you will allow me to stay.

When you should talk to me, respectfully and explain your beliefs and Gods will and if I do not attempt to change, kick me out. Tell me there is the road. That is what you should do.

But sadly no one does. They just become more tolerant. That is why God does not listen. And why he cries. We are his voice, his tools and he wishes to use us to set an example and to accomplish his will. So many forget that, they just look at their feet and say, let God handle it. Did you ever stop to think that just maybe he wants you to handle it?? How can things improve if you hang your head to please the man and tolerate. When you should stand up for what is in your heart.

Kit

 

[The Robster]

Yes Sir I stand by it all the way. It is tempered some so I will not get kicked off. I have a reason for being here and to challenge things is one of them.

The world which is greatly influenced by the modern church and religion becomes so tolerant of all things, all one has to do is read Gods word, study it, and as God talks to you , you know it is not at all right.

From the child who is totally arrogant and tells his mother that she cannot spank him or he will report her to the school or church and backed up by the school or church. Which only promotes more arrogance due to tolerance, to accepting all things against Gods way into the Church just to keep the boat from rocking is very wrong. This is destroying society.

It has become an accepted way. It is what is taught , it is what is now society.

Yes many things are very wrong.

If I want to go get a boyfriend tomorrow and come to your church and get married, what are you going to do?? Are you going to tell me no and council me on my sin, or are you going to allow it, or maybe not all of it but tolerate me. What are you going to do to me?? I bet that out of so called love you allow me to stay. No matter what I do, you will allow me to stay.

When you should talk to me, respectfully and explain your beliefs and Gods will and if I do not attempt to change, kick me out. Tell me there is the road. That is what you should do.

But sadly no one does. They just become more tolerant. That is why God does not listen. And why he cries. We are his voice, his tools and he wishes to use us to set an example and to accomplish his will. So many forget that, they just look at their feet and say, let God handle it. Did you ever stop to think that just maybe he wants you to handle it?? How can things improve if you hang your head to please the man and tolerate. When you should stand up for what is in your heart.

Kit

I'm sorry but I don't see all your doom and gloom. Sure the majority of people in this world are not Christians, but many churches are responsible for turning people away preaching judgement and condemnation and the need to clean up all your sin before you come to receive Jesus. Jesus came to save sinners and never condemned sinners. Many churches in America are condemning sinners and preaching Law to them to such a degree that its no wonder so many Christians themselves don't even attend services and depart from the faith.

Also, many churches are not preaching ALL the things that Jesus did at the Cross. So many and I mean so many churches in America are providing a warped view of God to so many. We literally have Christians, without using the excact language, telling people God makes them sick and poor and that its glorious siffering on His behalf. We have Christyians yeaching that all Jesus did was remove sin at the Cross and that if you have troubles in this life, well all you can do is just throw some prayers up to God and hope one hits and your problems get resolved.

Countless churches are preaching that God is "powerless" in this life and that the only benefit in this life of knowing Jesus is that one day you'll be in paradise with Him. Sorry sister, but its this warped view of what Jesus did and is willing to do that has so many being turned away from the faith and departing from the faith. I mean who would want to serve a Lord who can't or doesn't want to help you with your problems in this life? I come from a church where our pastor preaches unadulterated grace the same way that the apostle Paul did. Christian living is one thing, welcoming sinners into the family is a whole other and revealing to people EVERYTHING Jesuis did for us at the Cross is another. The gospel of grace has simply EXPLODED in southeast Asia and Australia and other parts of the world. Preachiong grace the way its supposed to will bring people into the kingdom and walking in that grace will make people holy. Its not our job to make people holy. The Lord will handle cleaning up the sin problems in a person's life. We are all against sin but preaching Law, preaching condemnation for sin, judging people because of their sins will just produce a more sinful life and push people further away from the Lord. Its a fact. And I'm of the opinion that the majority of churches in America have failed in preaching grace properly. And that's why we are not seeing radical results. The Lord warned us about this exact thing in Galatians 5:4! Its a multifaceted problem, not a simple one as you presented it. Many churches don't know the first thing about what Jesus did at the Cross and its costing Christians their lives and happiness.

 

[Kit Carson]

I'm sorry but I don't see all your doom and gloom. Sure the majority of people in this world are not Christians, but many churches are responsible for turning people away preaching judgement and condemnation and the need to clean up all your sin before you come to receive Jesus. Jesus came to save sinners and never condemned sinners. Many churches in America are condemning sinners and preaching Law to them to such a degree that its no wonder so many Christians themselves don't even attend services and depart from the faith.

Also, many churches are not preaching ALL the things that Jesus did at the Cross. So many and I mean so many churches in America are providing a warped view of God to so many. We literally have Christians, without using the excact language, telling people God makes them sick and poor and that its glorious siffering on His behalf. We have Christyians yeaching that all Jesus did was remove sin at the Cross and that if you have troubles in this life, well all you can do is just throw some prayers up to God and hope one hits and your problems get resolved.

Countless churches are preaching that God is "powerless" in this life and that the only benefit in this life of knowing Jesus is that one day you'll be in paradise with Him. Sorry sister, but its this warped view of what Jesus did and is willing to do that has so many being turned away from the faith and departing from the faith. I mean who would want to serve a Lord who can't or doesn't want to help you with your problems in this life? I come from a church where our pastor preaches unadulterated grace the same way that the apostle Paul did. Christian living is one thing, welcoming sinners into the family is a whole other and revealing to people EVERYTHING Jesuis did for us at the Cross is another. The gospel of grace has simply EXPLODED in southeast Asia and Australia and other parts of the world. Preachiong grace the way its supposed to will bring people into the kingdom and walking in that grace will make people holy. Its not our job to make people holy. The Lord will handle cleaning up the sin problems in a person's life. We are all against sin but preaching Law, preaching condemnation for sin, judging people because of their sins will just produce a more sinful life and push people further away from the Lord. Its a fact. And I'm of the opinion that the majority of churches in America have failed in preaching grace properly. And that's why we are not seeing radical results. The Lord warned us about this exact thing in Galatians 5:4! Its a multifaceted problem, not a simple one as you presented it. Many churches don't know the first thing about what Jesus did at the Cross and its costing Christians their lives and happiness.

Yes Sir. You are correct.

I do not know the answers. And yes God has told us all these things will come to be. So is it wrong to fight against them. I do not think so. Especially for each individual as that does bring you closer to God.

We see it daily, I see it in my own family. When I was a child and did wrong I got my tail burned up. In the world of today they are excused. They are just kids that kind of attitude. I use that as an example but it serves all things. From a man who cusses all the time to toleration of many things. Aw just leave him alone, he is not hurting anyone. Actually he is, he is offending others and getting away with it and this shows others they can get away with it.

No God does not make us sick. I do not know who would come up with such a thing, but I am sure that is being said too.

I have a different view on the judging thing. I do not judge I am not angel myself. But it is like when Jesus sat with the bad people in the temple or wherever it was, he talked to them, did not avoid them, tried to speak with them and show them the word of God. But he did not take any of them home with him. Understand what I am trying to say??

It is a mess, it makes me sad. But yes I do realize it has been told to us it will happen. All of it.

Just the same I am not going to join them. I will stand apart, I will try with all my effort to do my best. I will honor God and not concede to those around me. I will tell them they are wrong, I will show them they are wrong, I will ask God to make sure I am not wrong.

I guess I consider it so simple as I just prefer to do the right thing. I wish all others would do so also. Then it would be so very simple. But yes I do understand that will never happen. So to me it is simple, just do what is right and everything else takes care of itself.

I hope you understand me just a little. God seems to. He has not gave me a spanking yet. He does talk to me, all the time. through his word and my conscience . I know exactly what is right and wrong. Something as simple as a fuss with a phone company over a bill, I will resist, I will protest. And he says, look stupid pay the bill. What consequences might arise later from being stubborn. I talk to him about many things. It is my favorite pastime.

The world just makes me sad is all. Actually not really sad that is a figure of speech. Above all I am happy and love to laugh. I know who my buddy is.

Take Care

Kit

 

[Faith4Bride]

People often say that healing (of christians) depends on Gods will.

By this they mean that His will may mean yes or no. We dont know so we ask and if nothing happens then we say " oh i guess it wasnt his will"


but we do not see this in the word of God. We see healing provided in Gods coventants and on the cross. We do not see God or Jesus tell anyone who had faith " no its not my will to heal you".

We only see one person ask if its his will to heal and his answer is yes.

We see Jesus give promises that if we ask and believe we shall have it.

It is important to understand what a promise is. Jesus does not break His word. If he promises something then it is true.

It is not sometimes true and sometimes he says no- it is just true.

If you had to stop when you ask something and say " if it be your will" then you could not fulfill the next part of Jesus promise which was

" after you have asked believe you have recieved"

Well you cannot believe you have recieved, if you do not even have faith that it is Gods will to do it.

This is a matter of not knowing the will of God and not knowing the promises of God.

The will of God is not a mystery- it can be known by us and the more we know it the more faith we can walk in without doubting and wondering and "if's". Paul had to pray for a church to recieve the understanding and knowledge of Gods will.

In truth I do not beleive that most churches and alot of christians have any idea anymore what it means to walk in faith.They do not understand that if you cannot stand in confidence and assurance that You WERE healed- that GOD HAS PROVIDED- etc,, then you will always be double minded thinking " what if he doesnt want to, what if its not his will, what if what if" and that kind of man can recieve nothing from the Lord.

Also healing in the bible was not only just prayed for- it was commanded. Now if you have to wait to see if it is Gods will you cannot command it. we can only command it because we know His will.

Also in james we are told is any is sick let him go to the elders and he SHALL BE HEALED.

"shall be healed" is a promise- it does not say he will be healed if itis Gods will. Because Gods revealed will is and has always been to heal those who believe.

Physical healing is directly tied to forgiveness of sins we see that both in the OT and the NT.

 

[Faith4Bride]

What happens is that people know what they have seen and heard and experienced.

They know " we prayed but he still died" they know" well if christians were healed why do we get sick and stay sick"

We hear " so and so prayed for the son and he died"


Then they form doctrine_ or hear a doctrine _and beleive it because it seems to " make sence" with what they have SEEN OR HEARD.

But this is not how faith works. We are not to look at what we have seen and certain experiences and base truth on it. We base truth on the word of God and then we fit everything seen or heard into what the bible says.

In order to recieve from God what we ask we must believe-

People HATE to hear that they or someone else lacked faith.

People get all insulted and sometimes prideful. Then they get mad at the idea that they or someone else is " at fault" for what happens.

But when people blame God and say it wasnt his will, they are ok with that- a big deep breath of relaxation that it could not have been us that failed that lacked faith.


Some people would have really hated to actually walk around with Jesus cause He kept saying this to his APOSTLES:

Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?

Mat 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Now if even the aposltes walking with him sometimes lacked faith- once where they could not even do the miracle themselves then why is it impossible to happen to us?

And if Jesus could not do a miracle when those he was going to do it for did not believe- Why should it be differnt for us?

 

[The Robster]

Yes Sir. You are correct.

I do not know the answers. And yes God has told us all these things will come to be. So is it wrong to fight against them. I do not think so. Especially for each individual as that does bring you closer to God.

We see it daily, I see it in my own family. When I was a child and did wrong I got my tail burned up. In the world of today they are excused. They are just kids that kind of attitude. I use that as an example but it serves all things. From a man who cusses all the time to toleration of many things. Aw just leave him alone, he is not hurting anyone. Actually he is, he is offending others and getting away with it and this shows others they can get away with it.

No God does not make us sick. I do not know who would come up with such a thing, but I am sure that is being said too.

I have a different view on the judging thing. I do not judge I am not angel myself. But it is like when Jesus sat with the bad people in the temple or wherever it was, he talked to them, did not avoid them, tried to speak with them and show them the word of God. But he did not take any of them home with him. Understand what I am trying to say??

It is a mess, it makes me sad. But yes I do realize it has been told to us it will happen. All of it.

Just the same I am not going to join them. I will stand apart, I will try with all my effort to do my best. I will honor God and not concede to those around me. I will tell them they are wrong, I will show them they are wrong, I will ask God to make sure I am not wrong.

I guess I consider it so simple as I just prefer to do the right thing. I wish all others would do so also. Then it would be so very simple. But yes I do understand that will never happen. So to me it is simple, just do what is right and everything else takes care of itself.

I hope you understand me just a little. God seems to. He has not gave me a spanking yet. He does talk to me, all the time. through his word and my conscience . I know exactly what is right and wrong. Something as simple as a fuss with a phone company over a bill, I will resist, I will protest. And he says, look stupid pay the bill. What consequences might arise later from being stubborn. I talk to him about many things. It is my favorite pastime.

The world just makes me sad is all. Actually not really sad that is a figure of speech. Above all I am happy and love to laugh. I know who my buddy is.

Take Care

Kit

Kit I agree with the things you are saying. What I see around me bothers me too. I don't like how disrespectful and careless people are with their mouths or behavior in general, but its the way sinners are. Even many Christians are doing this. Many are not walking closely witht he Lord and many don't have the passion for Jesus that they should. We just need to concentrate on controlling what we can. I'm in the conversion business and not the condemnation business so for me, its just hard for me to lecture or tell someone "Hey you shouldn't be cussing or doing that." The same goes with my family members. I try to show by example and hope they take notice but I tend to avoid pointing out people's flaws or disrespect. But if people ask me, "Hey why do you avoid cussing or why don't you react like this or that" then I will lay it down the way God tells it in the Bible. I miss the mark plenty of times like anyone else, and really do try to avoid judging behavior that I know is biblically wrong. And in my case, its not about just accepting things or being tolerant, but its about staying away from preaching Law to people and condemnation. Its just counter productive to discussing the gospel with people. But I can't fault you for feeling the way you do. I just believe that many churches have just missed it when it comes to preaching grace and many don't see that they are directly responsible for causing some of these problems based on what they preach from the pulpit. And I know that you aren't sad in the sense that it was written. I mean who could honestly be sad with Jesus just hanging with us 24hrs a day! He is all that and a bag of chips.

 

[jiggyfly]

My parents and my features are a result of a system God set into motion a few thousand years ago Genetics.

You told me "God does not need anyone permission to do what He wants here in the earth or in anyone's life"

All I can say to that is Don't tell me!! Tell Him!! Tell Him He made a mistake in how He runs things.

No, I think I directed the truth in the right direction but if you choose not to believe in the sovereignty of Yahveh that is up to you.

 

[jiggyfly]

People often say that healing (of christians) depends on Gods will.

By this they mean that His will may mean yes or no. We dont know so we ask and if nothing happens then we say " oh i guess it wasnt his will"


but we do not see this in the word of God. We see healing provided in Gods coventants and on the cross. We do not see God or Jesus tell anyone who had faith " no its not my will to heal you".

We only see one person ask if its his will to heal and his answer is yes.

We see Jesus give promises that if we ask and believe we shall have it.

It is important to understand what a promise is. Jesus does not break His word. If he promises something then it is true.

It is not sometimes true and sometimes he says no- it is just true.

If you had to stop when you ask something and say " if it be your will" then you could not fulfill the next part of Jesus promise which was

" after you have asked believe you have recieved"

Well you cannot believe you have recieved, if you do not even have faith that it is Gods will to do it.

This is a matter of not knowing the will of God and not knowing the promises of God.

The will of God is not a mystery- it can be known by us and the more we know it the more faith we can walk in without doubting and wondering and "if's". Paul had to pray for a church to recieve the understanding and knowledge of Gods will.

In truth I do not beleive that most churches and alot of christians have any idea anymore what it means to walk in faith.They do not understand that if you cannot stand in confidence and assurance that You WERE healed- that GOD HAS PROVIDED- etc,, then you will always be double minded thinking " what if he doesnt want to, what if its not his will, what if what if" and that kind of man can recieve nothing from the Lord.

Also healing in the bible was not only just prayed for- it was commanded. Now if you have to wait to see if it is Gods will you cannot command it. we can only command it because we know His will.

Also in james we are told is any is sick let him go to the elders and he SHALL BE HEALED.

"shall be healed" is a promise- it does not say he will be healed if itis Gods will. Because Gods revealed will is and has always been to heal those who believe.

Physical healing is directly tied to forgiveness of sins we see that both in the OT and the NT.

Ever wondered why Paul wanted Luke to travel with him?

 

[Giggles4God]

These are lyrics to a song sung by Kerrie Roberts called No Matter What.

I think these words to be true. The ones in bold are my emphasis.





I’m running back to your promises one more time, Lord that’s all I can hold on to, I gotta say this has taken me by surprise, but nothing surprises you. Before a heartache can ever touch my life, it has to go through Your hands, and even though I, I keep asking why, I keep asking why,



No matter what, I’m gonna love You, no matter what I’m gonna need You, I know that You can find a way to keep me from the pain but if not,if not, I’ll trust you, no matter what, no matter what.



When I’m stuck in this nothing-ness by myself, I’m just sitting in silence, there’s no way I can make it without Your help, I wont even try it. I know You have Your reasons for everything, so I will keep believing, whatever I might be feeling, God you are my hope, and you'll be my strength,



No matter what, I’m gonna love You, no matter what I’m gonna need You, I know that You can find a way to keep me from the pain but if not, if not, I’ll trust you, no matter what, no matter what.



Anything I don’t have You can give it to me, but it’s ok if You don’t, I’m not here for those things, the touch of Your love is enough on its own, no matter what I still love You and I’m gonna need You



No matter what I’m gonna love you, no matter what I’m gonna need you, I know that You can find a way to keep me from the pain but if not, if not, I’ll trust You, I know that You can find a way to keep me from the pain, but if not, if not, I’ll trust you, no matter what no matter what no matter no matter what




I remember Job...


Job 1

Satan Attacks Job’s Character


6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”
So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.


Does it sound as if satan has to come to God to do anything? hmmmmm...


Is God not all knowing? He knows what has come and what will be.

Who am I to question why something has come to me and not to another? Who am I to say what God's will is and what it isn't? Yes, I can read the Bible, but does it tell ALL things about God? I'm just asking these questions...I think we need to be aware that God can do ANYTHING!


Jesus said "Without me you can do nothing."


Would you go up to someone who has lost a loved one and tell them they didn't have enough faith?

Who are you to tell them this? Is this not condemning?

Jesus says if we have faith even as small as a mustard seed, we can tell a mountain to more and it will.

Is not someone's faith amount between them and God? Is it not like their relationship with God? Who are we to know the true extent of the relationship, except by seeing its fruit?


I believe in the God who can do all things. I believe He can take my pain and sorrow away. I believe He can heal me and my family. I believe He can do whatever He wants. He need not ask my permission. I do know, however, we have free will.

If my prayers aren't answered the way I want them to, does that mean God didn't hear them? Did I do something wrong? Was there some kind of mishap?

I don't pray to God so that I get my way. How selfish would that be? I don't love God because He can give me wealth and all that I could ever want. I didn't come to God so that He could give and give and I need do nothing.

No. I pray to God to talk to my Lord and Savior. I pray to Him so that He knows I've been wanting His help, the only help that can do anything! I listen to what He says and try to live my life according to His will. I love God for what He has done in my life and for Himself..for who He is and to just to see His face. It has nothing to do with what I could get, but what I could give Him.

It is ALL about Him! To think that I would take His glory or what He has given me and throw it back in His face like it meant nothing, is abominable!

God gave His ONLY Son to die in my place! I will NOT take that for granted! I will NOT make it seem as if what God gives me is what I deserve! In truth, I deserve hell. But God...in His love and mercy...says differently.

Don't you see...we walk by faith...not by sight. I have faith in God...that even when I doubt...He will show me that I can trust Him. He shows me who He is through His Word, the Bible, and through my spending time with Him in prayer and worship.

I can not change your way of looking at this. You may be able to change mine, if Holy Spirit speaks to me. I know for a fact that God can do all things. I will never know if satan went to God to ask to do the things in my life that some would call testing times, etc. But I do know who holds tomorrow...and He's got the Whole World in His hands.

If He knows when a sparrow falls, how much more does He know when His child is dying? We will all die. I remind myself daily to have faith that God will be there, too, when my time comes. "I will never leave nor forsake you."

 

[The Robster]

Ever wondered why Paul wanted Luke to travel with him?

You ever wonder why Paul recovered from so many stonings and even talked about all the scars that He had? You know anyone who recovered from a stoning and then went back to preach where they tried whacking him? LOL FYI, people don't tend to recover from stonings.

 

[jiggyfly]

You ever wonder why Paul recovered from so many stonings and even talked about all the scars that He had? You know anyone who recovered from a stoning and then went back to preach where they tried whacking him? LOL FYI, people don't tend to recover from stonings.

Really, how many times was Paul stoned?

 

[The Robster]

Really, how many times was Paul stoned?

You have a Bible. Count the ones that are identified.