The Transfiguration

[oswinium]

Matthew 17 talks about the Transfiguration. I came across a doubt regarding this passage.

When Peter asks whether to make tabernacles or not, why is he not answered? Why does God's voice interrupt? The audible message that God gave from the cloud above was obviously not a response to Peter's question.

Or was it that there were more important things than building shelters?

Also did Jesus get to complete His conversation with Moses and Elijah? Because after God (the Father) stopped talking, it says that Jesus touched the disciples, and when they looked up, they saw NO ONE but Jesus.

 

[agua]

Peter wanted to build tabernacles because he did not understand the meaning of what he was seeing. He, and the sons of thunder, were shown a vision of the resurrection and the "coming of His Kingdom" which Jesus spoke of in Matt 16.

Mat 16:28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Jesus showed the 3 disciples a vision of the resurrected Moses and Elijah along with His glorified state. This was to strengthen their witness and give them confidence in the resurrection and return of the Lord.
Peter spoke of this in 2Peter 1 and how he witnessed the Lord in His majesty.

2Pe 1:14-16 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. (15) Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my decease. (16) For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.



I have read that Peter's question about building tabernacles was ignored and because God wanted to make it crystal clear that it was Jesus who was the eminent one amid the 3. So yes there far more important things than building shelters and Peter was so overcome by the vision that he thought immediately of physical things. Not unusual.


Remember this was a vision of the resurrection of the saints and coming of the Lord in His glory. It wasn't their actual resurrection. The conversation Jesus was having with Moses and elijah was simply to show how the saints will be in communion with Jesus.

Imagine the scene. Wow.

 

[james g]

fulfillment of both the Law and the prophets

 

[agua]

fulfillment of both the Law and the prophets

Oh yeah.. very cool.

 

[oswinium]

Thank you for that. God bless

 

[brakelite]

Peter wanted to build tabernacles because he did not understand the meaning of what he was seeing. He, and the sons of thunder, were shown a vision of the resurrection and the "coming of His Kingdom" which Jesus spoke of in Matt 16.

Mat 16:28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Jesus showed the 3 disciples a vision of the resurrected Moses and Elijah along with His glorified state. This was to strengthen their witness and give them confidence in the resurrection and return of the Lord.
Peter spoke of this in 2Peter 1 and how he witnessed the Lord in His majesty.

2Pe 1:14-16 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. (15) Moreover I will be careful to ensure that you always have a reminder of these things after my decease. (16) For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

Mat 17:2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.



I have read that Peter's question about building tabernacles was ignored and because God wanted to make it crystal clear that it was Jesus who was the eminent one amid the 3. So yes there far more important things than building shelters and Peter was so overcome by the vision that he thought immediately of physical things. Not unusual.


Remember this was a vision of the resurrection of the saints and coming of the Lord in His glory. It wasn't their actual resurrection. The conversation Jesus was having with Moses and elijah was simply to show how the saints will be in communion with Jesus.

Imagine the scene. Wow.

I am not sure what you mean by 'vision'. Are you saying that the disciples saw a scene from the future, like a representation of the coming resurrection? I agree that Moses was representative of those to be raised and Elijah of those to be translated at the second coming, but I always considered that Moses was the real live Moses, and Elijah, the real deal also. Not a vision as such, but a genuine appearing.

 

[agua]

Vision

I am not sure what you mean by 'vision'. Are you saying that the disciples saw a scene from the future, like a representation of the coming resurrection? I agree that Moses was representative of those to be raised and Elijah of those to be translated at the second coming, but I always considered that Moses was the real live Moses, and Elijah, the real deal also. Not a vision as such, but a genuine appearing.

Mat 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."


Jesus was showing the diciples a picture of the resurrection and His glory and eminence amongst the saints. A vision of the future yes. Maybe the disciples didn't have a good idea of rising from the dead. They also had no understanding that Jesus would die and rise after 3 days at that stage.

Mar 9:9-10 Now as they came down from the mountain, He commanded them that they should tell no one the things they had seen, till the Son of Man had risen from the dead. (10) So they kept this word to themselves, questioning what the rising from the dead meant.

Pretty cool too how there were 3 witnesses as required for legal tesimony.

I hadn't thought about Moses being one who was raised and Elijah as one who was translated. Another nice point. It wasn't their actual resurrection though as that is still future.

1Th_4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

[RJ]

Mat 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."


Jesus was showing the diciples a picture of the resurrection and His glory and eminence amongst the saints. A vision of the future yes. Maybe the disciples didn't have a good idea of rising from the dead. They also had no understanding that Jesus would die and rise after 3 days at that stage.

Mar 9:9-10 Now as they came down from the mountain, He commanded them that they should tell no one the things they had seen, till the Son of Man had risen from the dead. (10) So they kept this word to themselves, questioning what the rising from the dead meant.

Pretty cool too how there were 3 witnesses as required for legal tesimony.

I hadn't thought about Moses being one who was raised and Elijah as one who was translated. Another nice point. It wasn't their actual resurrection though as that is still future.

1Th_4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel,and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Nice thread: one thing to ponder: With regards to Elijah and Moses and 1 Th_4:16: both men were real and from the other realm ( spirit world) and for us the scripture is about what happens in the future ( our physical world).

God said that he is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth. We often try to compare the physical with the spiritual. In the spiritual world, there is no space and time as we know it.This is a know principle of physics and, guess who invented that...God.

With regard to the resurrection of these men, it had already happened for in the spiritual realm: their past, present and future are the same.
God said that we will inherited all of Jesus Christ's inheritance. Jesus said that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the begining and the end, he is both at the same time and so shall we be!


I hadn't thought about Moses being one who was raised and Elijah as one who was translated. Another nice point. It wasn't their actual resurrection though as that is still future.

Colossians 2:20

New International Version (NIV)


<SUP id=en-NIV-29515 class=versenum>20</SUP> Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

 

[brakelite]

According to 2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Elijah went physically, in his body, to heaven. I am aware of course as are you, that Jesus said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, so Elijah was translated...given his new glorious body no doubt in anticipation of Jesus resurrection.

Moses was raised from the dead physically, as shall be the dead in Christ at His coming. Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
The visitation on the mount may have been called a vision by the writer of the gospel, but it was still a real life meeting between the three. Not I believe a future event, although I do believe it prefigured the furure coming of Christ in His glory when the dead saints shall rise and those who are alive shall be translated.

 

[oswinium]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Bible says (somewhere) that we will go to Heaven (the saints) ONLY after the Second Coming of Christ. So if that is true, then how did Elijah (and maybe others) go to Heaven before this time? Or is there something that I'm not seeing?

 

[brakelite]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Bible says (somewhere) that we will go to Heaven (the saints) ONLY after the Second Coming of Christ. So if that is true, then how did Elijah (and maybe others) go to Heaven before this time? Or is there something that I'm not seeing?

Elijah, Enoch, and Moses are exceptions we are told about in the OT. There were some others that were raised from their tombs at the resurrection of Jesus whom Jesus took with Him to heaven as first fruits.
Aside from these notable exceptions, you are right, the Bible does teach that no-one goes to heaven until the resurrection at the second coming.

 

[oswinium]

Thanks for clarifying that

There were some others that were raised from their tombs at the resurrection of Jesus whom Jesus took with Him to heaven as first fruits.

Could you please provide me with the verses that support this statement? Thanks =D

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The only reference I know of regarding holy people being resurrected from their tombs at the moment of Christ's death is Mt 27:52-53. Nowhere to my knowledge does Scripture flatly say that Jesus took them to heaven with Him.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[agua]

The only reference I know of regarding holy people being resurrected from their tombs at the moment of Christ's death is Mt 27:52-53. Nowhere to my knowledge does Scripture flatly say that Jesus took them to heaven with Him.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Mat 27:53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection(G1454) they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

G1454
ἔγερσις
egersis
eg'-er-sis
From G1453; a resurgence (from death): - resurrection.

I wonder why Matthew would have used a different word for "resurrection" here than he used in other places in his writings.

G386
ἀνάστασις
anastasis
an-as'-tas-is
From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): - raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

 

[RJ]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Bible says (somewhere) that we will go to Heaven (the saints) ONLY after the Second Coming of Christ. So if that is true, then how did Elijah (and maybe others) go to Heaven before this time? Or is there something that I'm not seeing?

You can't confuse your carnal knowledge of the physical world by trying to fit it in with the other realm or spiritual word; they are worlds apart, no pun intended.

At the end of 1 Corinthians 13, Pauls talks about our physical death. He refers to our physical death, our obviously leaving this physical plane, as the imperfect leaves and the perfect comes. In other words, when we shuck this fleshy, worldly, human body with all of its imperfections, we will , fully in spirit, be made perfect. Not only that, we see God face to face and know him as well as he knows us.

2 COR 5: 7-8
<SUP>7</SUP> For we live by faith, not by sight. <SUP id=en-NIV-28886 class=versenum>8</SUP> We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. <SUP id=en-NIV-28887 class=versenum>9</SUP>

Paul suggests that out of the body means to be in the Spirit with the Lord. Knowing that we have the Lord living in us now, why would he go anywhere when we die....well, he doesn't. We would then just experience him fully!

In the spirit world there is no time and space as we know it. When you die, there is no holding pattern, no waiting for the second coming. When you die, you are immediately and completely in the spirit with the Lord for all eternity.

At transfiguration, the disciples were graced with a sighting of Moses and Elijah from the other realm and, momentarily, witnessed the Lord in his glory. This was all for the benefit of Peter and John and was to show them the things were to come in their time and also for their future.

Peter, wanting to build Moses and Elijah a shelter, proves that they did not understand the spiritual world, not to mention the future death and resurrection of the Lord.

As Jesus told the thief, when we die, we will immediately be in paridise with him!!!

 

[EphremHagos]

In view of the train of thought starting from the question of Jesus’ identity, Simon Peter’s correct but one-off answer, Jesus’ difficult elaboration on broadening the scope of firsthand knowledge about him to all future generations (Matt. 16: 13-28), and the additional personal testimonies of Moses and Elijah on the kind of death Jesus was going to suffer in order to dispense the knowledge in question and eternal life with it, the request by Simon Peter to build three tents was completely diversionary. (Ibid, 17: 1-13; Luke 9: 28-36)

It is all about a verifiably Spirit-active, perfect, and diacritical death on the cross according to the Scriptures. (Matt. 27: 50-56)
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