Is It Really One Flesh?

[CookieRaider]

I am confused about something that I have just heard recently.
Not good at explaining it, but I will just type out my thought process first. I don't want to be accused of twisting scripture or anything.

I read this verse when studying Genesis: Genesis 2:24

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

One flesh. I assumed this meant they would become one person. Equal. Then I read this verse: Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

The husband rules over the wife in a married realtionship as a result of the fall of man. Please correct me if that is wrong.

I don't quite understand the concept. When married, a couple is to become one flesh, and everyone I have asked agrees that a couple stands on equal ground in the eyes of God. So what it with the order that I have seen recently? I don't mean that in a mean way at all. I am very confused. Then I hear they are both equal indeed, but that one rules over the other, which doesn't make sense to me. Can someone clear this up for me?

 

[Follow The Lion]

Matthew 19:6 - "...What God has joined together, let man not separate"

God says that when a man and a woman are united in flesh, mind, and spirit, they are no longer two, but become one. At the same time, God has given the man the position of ruling over the woman. This does not mean that they are unequal; they still balance each other -- but the man is given authority.

 

[CookieRaider]

Matthew 19:6 - "What God has joined together, let man not separate"


God says that when a man and a woman are united in flesh, mind, and spirit, they are no longer two, but become one. At the same time, God has given the man the position of ruling over the woman. This does not mean that they are unequal; they still balance each other -- but the man is given authority.

How come the man is given the authority?

 

[Follow The Lion]

How come the man is given the authority?

The verse you stated in your first post should explain that, lol

"To the woman he said, 'I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.'"

God knows best. He chose specific roles for each gender in order to create a balance. Questioning this would be like asking God if he knows what he is doing or not.

As for why the male gender, I'm not really sure but I do know that Adam (man) was the first to be created and Eve was the first to sin. Also, women tend to have a more gentle nature than that of a man.

 

[CookieRaider]

I doubt it is because of the nature of any woman. Everyone is different. Not all men are muscular and tough and not all women are gentle and overly emotional.

 

[Follow The Lion]

Haha, that is why I said I was not really sure. What do you think?

 

[gdemoss]

If you start in the bible seeking truth and applying it to what you see around you, then you can see the error in the world. You can then begin to understand why men act like woman and women like men. Make no mistake, there will be no effeminate men who walk upon the face of the new earth. There will be no masculine women either. They were not created that way. We must always understand that upon the 7 day everything was 'very good'. After the point of the fall, a perfect creation of truth had been tainted by a lie. Since then Satan has taken the truth of God and turned it into a lie in every way that he can. Lies give him his power.

Though shalt not bear false witness.

Gary

 

[dannibear]

\ We must always understand that upon the 7 day everything was 'very good'.Gary

And by the time everything was created and God
said it was good, both Adam and Eve ruled the
garden and no one said one ruled the other.
Genesis 1:28. It is at the fall of man that God
said the husband ruled over the wife.
Maybe I am misunderstanding.

 

[gdemoss]

And by the time everything was created and God
said it was good, both Adam and Eve ruled the
garden and no one said one ruled the other.
Genesis 1:28. It is at the fall of man that God
said the husband ruled over the wife.
Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Hi Danni! Grace and Peace unto you,

I don't get my understanding of this in Genesis. I get it from Paul in 1 Cor 11 where he discusses how these roles developed. The man was created for God. The woman made for the man. The callings and gifts of God are without repentance. He designed everything to have a particular function and place. When explaining the chain of authority within the marriage, Paul doesn't go to Gen 3:16 to establish it. He goes to the very design of creation itself to explain it. Had it only been since the fall, he couldn't do that.

I really hope this helps you understand the way that it has been shown to me.

Gary

 

[dannibear]

Hi Danni! Grace and Peace unto you,

I don't get my understanding of this in Genesis. I get it from Paul in 1 Cor 11 where he discusses how these roles developed. The man was created for God. The woman made for the man. The callings and gifts of God are without repentance. He designed everything to have a particular function and place. When explaining the chain of authority within the marriage, Paul doesn't go to Gen 3:16 to establish it. He goes to the very design of creation itself to explain it. Had it only been since the fall, he couldn't do that.

I really hope this helps you understand the way that it has been shown to me.

Gary

I will go ahead and say right away I have also
just come across these type of questions regarding
women in the past couple of years. I am still sensitive
to these questions. It isn't because I want to be dominant,
or want all the control, but because I believe that a married
couple is equal, and hearing that someone has authority
over someone else doesn't sound equal to me.
I don't say it out of disrespect, I am pouring out my feelings
and thoughts because seeing these questions still sting.
I don't understand the concept either like Cookie.
If I don't respond right away to you, or to anyone here,
it will most likely be because I don't want to make assumptions
without having an open mind. I don't want to accuse nor
lash out in anger because truthfully, until I understand, I will
continue to feel some sting from these questions.
I want to reply with a level head. So I might have times
where I walk away from the computer and ignore feelings
so I can come back and look at the Word of God without feelings
in the way. I want to understand and be humble about it too.
Hopefully those that reply to so many questions I might have won't be angry.


With that said, I am willing to admit when I am
wrong and when I start to feel some sting.
Besides, the Bible is supposed to be the guide
for our lives, God's words to us, not a feel good book right?
I don't want to say something is or is not true without
looking at the Bible. So yes, after reading the scripture
you provided, I see that the Genesis verse is not
used as a reference. The creation story is indeed used.
I started to feel sad when you said that man was created
for God, and woman for man. Does this mean I was not
created for God? Or were both genders created for
God but woman is to be a helpmeet to man?

I hope everyone is patient with me as I too try to grasp
this in a humble way.

 

[gdemoss]

I will go ahead and say right away I have also
just come across these type of questions regarding
women in the past couple of years. I am still sensitive
to these questions. It isn't because I want to be dominant,
or want all the control, but because I believe that a married
couple is equal, and hearing that someone has authority
over someone else doesn't sound equal to me.
I don't say it out of disrespect, I am pouring out my feelings
and thoughts because seeing these questions still sting.
I don't understand the concept either like Cookie.
If I don't respond right away to you, or to anyone here,
it will most likely be because I don't want to make assumptions
without having an open mind. I don't want to accuse nor
lash out in anger because truthfully, until I understand, I will
continue to feel some sting from these questions.
I want to reply with a level head. So I might have times
where I walk away from the computer and ignore feelings
so I can come back and look at the Word of God without feelings
in the way. I want to understand and be humble about it too.
Hopefully those that reply to so many questions I might have won't be angry.


With that said, I am willing to admit when I am
wrong and when I start to feel some sting.
Besides, the Bible is supposed to be the guide
for our lives, God's words to us, not a feel good book right?
I don't want to say something is or is not true without
looking at the Bible. So yes, after reading the scripture
you provided, I see that the Genesis verse is not
used as a reference. The creation story is indeed used.
I started to feel sad when you said that man was created
for God, and woman for man. Does this mean I was not
created for God? Or were both genders created for
God but woman is to be a helpmeet to man?

I hope everyone is patient with me as I too try to grasp
this in a humble way.

Danni, All my love to you child!

Please don't be hurt by the order of creation and the authority that God has chosen to give unto whom. You are equally loved by God as a person. That is why there is no male nor female in Christ Jesus. God gave you a covering (hair) so that you could go straight to him! He wants you to have equal access. You are not less nor more in value, only rank in authority due to the construction of all things.

As a woman you have been given some of the greatest responsibility on the planet! God has entrusted the care of children into you hand to govern over them. The husbands domain is not giving law unto the children as the wife is saved in childbearing/rearing. The husband is merely the one who instructs them in righteousness, bringing them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Your task is to keep their flesh in line! A husbands job is to sacrifice himself on the service of your faith, governing you in the Holy Spirit, by the fruit of the spirit. He is to wash you in the water of the word and present you to himself blameless.

You are 'joint heirs' of salvation and he is to remember this as he is to dwell with the woman according to knowledge. Both man and woman have been given separate positions within the family unit with each one being as important as the other. Try not to get tripped up on the word 'authority'.

If there is anything else I can help you with, don't be afraid to approach me. I am here to serve you as your brother!

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[Gmart]

Does this mean I was not
created for God? Or were both genders created for
God but woman is to be a helpmeet to man?

I personally believe that the woman was originally a part of the man. Meaning the characteristics we typically see in women, a more emotional and sensitive nature, once was part of the man. I believe this is why we are called one flesh when we are joined together. God is no respecter of persons so I do believe God cares about us equally. Gen. 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. The woman was made to be man's help meet and the man has been ordained the head of the family by God but this does not come without it's own price. The man will be held accountable unto God for all that he allows in his house/family. This is why it is so important for the man to be submitted to Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

One flesh, hmm..

Eph 5:31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
Eph 5:32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

When you are married to someone, you become attached in many ways. Spiritually, Physically, Emotionally.. and on some other levels as well.

For example, when she (your wife) hurts, you hurt, when she is sad, you are sad, when she is happy, you are happy. Physical intamacy can happen without love, but is much stronger and more more satisfying when true love is involved.

1Cor 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!
1Cor 6:16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."
1Cor 6:17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

When you join in any of these ways to someone who isn't your spouse, it corrupts the union in numerous ways.. (there are way too many to go over in one single post here) but for example... the man may respect the woman less because she had sex with him outside of wedlock, he may even trust her less because if she was willing to compromise her faith to be with him, what else is she willing to compromise? It works the same way with the woman, after she has been intimate with you, she may wonder if you are truly a Godly man. Neither of you can tell the church you are in this intimate physical relationship, so now dishonesty gets tacked on, you see each other being dishonest and that further lowers trust and respect for each other...

Now this example doesn't happen every single time, it's just one example of many.

One flesh, when a part of your body is ripped away from you, it can leave a huge scar. It's usually pretty traumatic, and can leave a pretty good scar, over time the scar may heal. This is much like divorce. I suspect it's a big reason why God hates divorce (Mal 2:16) because of the pain and trauma it causes not only in your own lives, but affects your childrens, friends and family, your ministry in the church and even your job. I am over simplifying it, but it's a deep subject. After a divorce or the death of a spouse, (there are rules about getting married after a divorce, more on that in another post perhaps) but again, getting remarried, may help the scar to heal, but usually there is always at least a small scar left.

Gen 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Marriage was always part of God's plan for the human race.

7 times in Genesis during the creation, God says "it was good" the very first NOT good in the Bible is, it is not good for man to be alone. (Gen 2:18)

Matt 19:5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?

As we mature our desire should be to leave our parents and raise a family of our own.

Matt19:6 "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
Mar 10:8 AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

I myself have been married more than once. God forgives. But marriage is a sacred covenant, a covenant is a promise made until death. Too many people take relationships too lightly and move around from relationship to relationship (even marriage to marriage) not realizing each time they do this, the scar gets larger and larger. It takes longer and longer to heal.

There is much more to say on this.. but I don't have the time this evening.

 

[B-A-C]

The husband is the "head" of the wife, she must submit to him. (Eph 5:23, Titus 2:5, 1Pet 3:1, etc..) Yes it says this in the Bible, but I wonder if there is a more mis-understood verse in the Bible?

Many men take this to mean they are the head of the woman, as in the "master" or "boss" of the woman. If you are getting married just to have someone to order around, you're getting married for the wrong reason. Another way to look at the "head" of the woman, is more like a river. Where does a river begin? At the head-waters. This is the source of life for the river. Maybe we as men, should be part of what gives life to our wives, to cherish them, uplift them, support them (financially, spiritually, emotionally, etc..) and protect them.

Yet there is a hierarchy to marriage.
God the father,
Christ the son,
The church,
The man,
the woman,
the children,

Without a hierarchy, there is chaos. Everyone wants to be in charge. This how arguments, strife and divorces happen. Most every corporation, government, or military has a hierarchy of command. Without it, there would be no order. No direction, no way to make decisions.

Does this mean, other people can't be a part of those decisions? No. Does it mean the "man in charge" can't listen to other people (even his wife?) No. Does it mean he is always right... (I think we know the answer to that one).

Marriage is the most attacked sacrament in the world today. Marriage is the foundation of relationships. Children without both fathers and mothers grow up without the type of guidance they need from both sides. Husbands "demand" respect, (because the Bible says so??) and wives often "don't need a man around, because I can take care of myself". Yes people get by like that, but how much more rewarding it is to have that special someone God placed in your life.

God made men and women differently. Not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically as well. Women is gnerally as better at seeing what needs to be done. They are usually better at multi-tasking (this is probably why traditionally they stayed home and raised the children). Men are usually more task oriented and have a higher resolve for things to get done (or "fixed"). There are always some exceptions to everything, but in general this is true. I think this why God put men "over" the women so to speak. Not because we're stronger or smarter, but because we should be the last ones to give up when things start going sideways with our wives and children.

You hear many sermons of husbands loving their wives (this is probably good given the current divorce rate) but you don't hear many sermons of wives respecting their husbands. If husbands take being the head wrong, then I fear too many wives take this wrong as well. Respecting your husband isn't about what you "have" to do for him. It's about what you want to do for him because you love him. Much the way our relationship should be with Jesus. It's true some husbands and wives can be hard to love sometimes. So that means we should just quit and give up on them? That isn't what the Bible says. It doesn't say respect them IF they deserve it, or love them IF they earn it. It just says do it, under all conditions.

 

[aaroncam85]

just a quick thought, man and women are made one flesh when married maybe meaning they will begin to think and live as one, separately God gives man a position; you may percieve it to be a position of honour, i would argue man is in a worst position as he becomes responsible for his own salvation and in some sense that of his wife, man having authority over women as i understand just means the man makes the final decision. hope that makes some sense.

 

[Kit Carson]

Even today in India and some other places a female child is killed to make a place for a male child. In these countries and in Islamic countries women are still bought and sold, they are required to become prostitutes to support the family and many other sins are still very oppressive to women in the world of today. A woman can be raped and killed for the sin of the crime, unless she marries her rapist. Yes these attitudes still exist today. In our very own Bible a woman raped in the countryside was pardoned as no one could hear her scream, but if raped in the city she was killed because she did not resist hard enough.......yes our own religion was very violent and had stupid laws.

In our Bible one has to realize that many laws and ways were religious tradition , and not the wish of God and as Jesus did show in his time on earth , he was one who never once treated a woman other than equally. And Jesus was always telling the religious rights that they were wrong and by his own example demonstrated he considered women equal.
The Jewish tradition treated women as property, like cattle to be bought and sold, to be made slaves, and to be discarded like trash if desired. Did you ever see Jesus act in this manner?? Who did he send to tell his Apostles that he had rose from the dead?? Was it not Mary who he sent to tell them?

In nature and in the way of all creation man is dominant, the woman is more gentle and meek and is the home maker. The man is the warrior, the hunter, the bread winner and the woman is the one who cares for the home and takes care of the children.......or was, But society and tradition was this way, still is mostly, but now in our new society women work equally to men, society has changed, but the ignorance of men, their oppressive nature has not changed.

How do we become one flesh, that again is something you look at and have to understand what the words mean, it was a way of speaking of the time, but it simply means we become one spirit, the two become one, in spirit and one is happy to see the other all the time, one is not complete without the other, each is a part of the one and the one is not complete without the two.

To have order and harmony someone has to be the boss.
So nature has placed man in this position, but it should be with kindness, understanding, equality, gentleness and respect at all times. Both are to work together, to be one, and to live as one and to raise the family as one and when one falls the other holds the other, and all work together to keep all things in harmony.

I have a great many .......I guess use the word problems with the acceptance of the old Jewish religious traditions in many aspects. So I look at the examples Jesus set on earth during his time. I watch what he did.

I reject buying and selling women, killing of female children, and total dominance of men over women in the mindset of the dominance spoken of many times. We are instead to be kind, understanding, consider them equal in all things of the family and life, and understand their spirit is equal to ours. And that it is the tradition of man who wishes to have total control and dominance.

Recently there was a couple who had been married for a long time, they were old, and they died an hour apart holding hands. They were one. They were of one flesh, both a part of the whole.

I am much the same with my wife, we are one, to be apart for a day or two or a week for this or that in our marriage is a sad time. Each day the sight of the other cheers up the day. Things are back on an even keel when together again. Meanwhile we both work, we do so together, and several times she has born the burden of all things as I am a craftsman and work is slow many times. So together we make it all work. Together we raised a family and together with her making me behave we help the GrandKids and endure the failings of our own children and try to help them all we can.

So a man and a woman, become one in spirit. Each are a part of the whole.

Jesus recognized the nature of things, but never once did he say man is dominant, the woman is inferior and always was kind, respectful and in the ways other than of nature considered women equal.

Ok........let me have it......but I stick to my guns about this one, it was religious traditions that set the theme of the way, not the kindness and understanding spirit of God that set the way. It was the ignorance of men.

Kit

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

There are some thought provoking posts so far.

So a man and a woman, become one in spirit. Each are a part of the whole.

Jesus recognized the nature of things, but never once did he say man is dominant, the woman is inferior and always was kind, respectful and in the ways other than of nature considered women equal.

Ok........let me have it......but I stick to my guns about this one, it was religious traditions that set the theme of the way, not the kindness and understanding spirit of God that set the way. It was the ignorance of men.

I agree,in fact she is a defacto savior.It would be her seed(women don't have seed) that would bruise the serpents head.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The seed of the woman is referred to as "it".
Notice that the man is not even in the equation.If anything the man is support for the woman to do battle with the serpent.

The first thing in the garden that is not good is that "the man should be alone". Why was he suddenly alone?
Had he already separated himself from God?
Is it possible that marriage is a picture of the relationship Adam originally had with God?

Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Ephesians 5:32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

It is also a picture of the oneness of Christ and all his church.
His church is that woman in proverbs 31.At least we are supposed to be.

just a quick thought, man and women are made one flesh when married maybe meaning they will begin to think and live as one, separately God gives man a position; you may percieve it to be a position of honour, i would argue man is in a worst position as he becomes responsible for his own salvation and in some sense that of his wife, man having authority over women as i understand just means the man makes the final decision. hope that makes some sense.

That makes sense to me,the command structure is only needed for efficiency and direction.It also prevents manipulation from either their children or from the outside world.
Marriage is a picture of Christ and the church,we give Christ the final authority.
I have been married for 29 years and my wife knows what I would do or say in almost any situation.You would think after 2000 years the bride would know him a little better but God's timing is different than ours.

Also if the two have a child then technically the two have become one flesh.

 

[B-A-C]

defacto savior? I'm not sure what that means. But the seed it was referring to was Jesus being born as a man.
As far as Adam already being seprarted from God before the woman came along, no the woman was there, in fact the Bible says she was deceived first, not the man. 1Tim 2:14

 

[dannibear]

I have a career in mind to support my family
in the future, something that interests me,
something I want to make a difference in.
But I see many posts about how as the
woman, I am to stay at home and take care of the
children, yet in the Bible when it talks about the
virtuous woman, it does describe her having a job
outside the home. Proverbs 31:24
I would say selling things to the merchants was
definitely a job in the Bible.


And I saw another post about how the structure
keeps the family from being deceived. Is this
saying that I am way more gullible than any
man that I might marry? I might have questions
but it doesn't mean I would just believe anything
set in front of me.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

defacto savior? I'm not sure what that means.

Like when a country has a revolution and places a temporary leader in charge.Before it is recognized by other countries as the legitimate government it is called a defacto government.

But the seed it was referring to was Jesus being born as a man.

Exactly,he is the seed of the woman,she carried the legitimate Savior.
The battle is between seeds,but also between the serpent and the woman.The woman who contains the saviour is as close to the saviour as the world could get at that time.Why isn't the man battling the serpent?

As far as Adam already being seprarted from God before the woman came along, no the woman was there

It was a question not a statement,but I wonder why suddenly something was NOT good.Everything God did was good and suddenly this man is in charge and things are not good.Your right the woman was there inside Adam.

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

God had a creative relationship with Adam.God formed and brought
stuff to him to see what he would call it.And that would be it's name.
That sounds like a lot of fun and would be pretty cool.

Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

The animal thing was awesome but it just didn't seem to cut the alone issue.Really I'm jealous of Adam because if God was bringing me stuff to name I would not feel alone....or would I?

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Adam called her woman not because she had a womb but because he did and she came from it.So like everything else Adam named,that was it's name.So she was like Adam and had a womb and could generate more beings.