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Is there a preacher in the house?

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You will not find those exact words in the Bible. I do not remember it saying anywhere or Jesus saying specifically I will die on the cross.
But it does not say anywhere , or Jesus did not say in those word, I am to die on the cross.

Kit

Hi Kit,

Those exact words aren't used, but Jesus definitely did say/foretell that He was going to die on a cross.

here :

(emphasis mine for all cited verses)
John 3:14-15
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26135">14</sup> Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26136">15</sup> that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

And here :
Luke 9:22-23[22] And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

[23] Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.



Matthew 16:24
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23697">24</sup> Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

It would make no sense for Jesus to talk about taking up a cross, if He wasn't going to the cross. There would be no context for Him to use that phrase. He wasn't talking about it in the sense of bearing a burden. The context was death and resurrection in 3 days.

Here's another one :

Matthew 20:17-19
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-23784">17</sup>And Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples apart on the way and said unto them,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-23785">18</sup>"Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-23786">19</sup>and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify Him. And the third day, He shall rise again."


Cheers!





<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-NIV-26136g&quot; title=&quot;See footnote g&quot;>g</a>]"></sup>
 
Hi Kit,

Those exact words aren't used, but Jesus definitely did say/foretell that He was going to die on a cross.

here :

(emphasis mine for all cited verses)
John 3:14-15
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26135">14</sup> Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26136">15</sup> that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

And here :
Luke 9:22-23[22] And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

[23] Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.



Matthew 16:24
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23697">24</sup> Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

It would make no sense for Jesus to talk about taking up a cross, if He wasn't going to the cross. There would be no context for Him to use that phrase. He wasn't talking about it in the sense of bearing a burden. The context was death and resurrection in 3 days.

Here's another one :

Matthew 20:17-19
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-23784">17</sup>And Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples apart on the way and said unto them,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-23785">18</sup>"Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death,
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJ21-23786">19</sup>and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify Him. And the third day, He shall rise again."


Cheers!

<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-NIV-26136g&quot; title=&quot;See footnote g&quot;>g</a>]"></sup>

Uuugh, that's less than vague, and not all his words to attempt to piece it together lol. I appreciate the effort though.

I just faced the fact that he never said it outright. Why, I don't know, but apparently its not within a clear cut verse. She got me on a that one so I will have to live with it.

You would think God's 'perfect plan' would involve telling us point by point so there would be no confusion. No wonder there is over 35,000 different sects of Christianity when we can't even agree on what he said lol.
 
Uuugh, that's less than vague, and not all his words to attempt to piece it together lol. I appreciate the effort though.

I just faced the fact that he never said it outright. Why, I don't know, but apparently its not within a clear cut verse. She got me on a that one so I will have to live with it.
You would think God's 'perfect plan' would involve telling us point by point so there would be no confusion. No wonder there is over 35,000 different sects of Christianity when we can't even agree on what he said lol.

First, if there is confusion it is in you, not God. He is not the author of confusion.

And of the supposed 35,000 sects, to say there are that many sects (or denominations) is disingenuous and a gross exaggeration.

For example, the Eastern Orthodox Church is 1 denomination, not 35 or so, just because there are approximately that many countries that have churches under the umbrella of Eastern Orthodoxy.
Plus, you have to consider that each branch of any denomination is also called a denomination. For example, ELCA is a denomination, as is LCMS, but they are both Lutheran.

So too, with all the other major denominations, like Baptist, Pentecostal, etc. Pentecostals differ from other denominations in their belief about the Holy Spirit, ie: speaking in tongues. But they do not differ in the "core values" as you called them.
In fact, most of the Protestant denominations were formed because of a non-essential side-issues, non-salvation-related doctrines, etc. Protestants definitely agree on far more issues than they disagree on and are united in the essential beliefs and unity of the body of Christ!

Now to answer your next comment : what is vague about : "the Son of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify Him"?

Are you really interested in learning? I ask this because you appear to have a veiled mocking attitude and tone towards the bible in all of your questions and replies. Starting with your statements : "No wonder there are 35,000 sects (and others later in your post), and "You would think" (are you questioning God here?) God's 'perfect plan' would involve telling us......."

Hmmmmm...... why make such accusatory statements?:shock:
I sure hope you realize God is not mocked.

And for someone who claimed he is, "pretty well read on the bible and actually majored in Religion in college", you appear not to know much about the bible! Either that, or you have a problem with some of the passages in it (like the ones below), which is why you are bringing them up?

She said God actually condoned smashing babies on rocks....and that people should kill children if they even hit their parent.....that simply CAN'T be true....I refuse, refuse, refuse to believe that!
The first answer is in Psalm 137, the 2nd is in Exodus 21:15. I was familiar with both passages and it took me 5 seconds to look up the exact verses. So I refuse, refuse, refuse to believe that you can neither open your bible, nor a concordance, nor do a Google search and find this out!

Next, I do believe ByGraceAlone was correct in believing you swore in your posts.
Quoting you : "She also said that Jesus never wrote a &^$% thing in the Bible. That REALLY ****** me off".

Why would you have to use symbols for good, non-swear words?

Firstly, i do not appreciate you calling or insinuating my relative is 'swine'. Despite her apparent knowledge of the bible being beyond mine (although ironically she IS an non-believer),
she is actually a great person and leads a VERY moral and inspiring life. In fact she gives and volunteers more for humanitarian charities than anyone I know.
As an educated Christian, surely you know that none of a non-believer's "good works" will mean a thing at the judgment seat of Christ, and that God says that outside of His righteousness ours is as a filthy rag?
So I don't know what your point was in making that comment.

I pray that the Lord blesses you with a humble and submissive spirit and leads you to all truth.
 
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First, if there is confusion it is in you, not God. He is not the author of confusion.
Uh, so what's your point? That I'm not perfect? I already knew that but thanks. Glad to know you are perfect. I shall refer all my questions directly to you from now on since you have all the answers.

And of the supposed 35,000 sects, to say there are that many sects (or denominations) is disingenuous and a gross exaggeration.
Huh? What is your malfunction? Even Christian Today and the Christian Encyclopedia agrees with me here...

Are many similar, yes, of course. Are they STILL different, yes, and hence being listed as a different sect or denomination.

I fail to see your issue with that. Are you insinuating the approx. 38,000 sects are somehow my fault??

Now to answer your next comment : what is vague about : "the Son of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify Him"?

It's vague because it doesn't meet the criteria of the bet, and also because it doesn't specifically list the salvation part either...pay attention so we don't have to cover this over and over and over.
Besides, Kit already stated it was not in the bible, and so I lost the bet. (Or will when I concede with her.)

Are you really interested in learning? I ask this because you appear to have a veiled mocking attitude and tone towards the bible in all of your questions and replies. Starting with your statements : "No wonder there are 35,000 sects (and others later in your post), and "You would think" (are you questioning God here?) God's 'perfect plan' would involve telling us......."

Hmmmmm...... why make such accusatory statements?:shock:
I sure hope you realize God is not mocked.
Mocking attitude?? It was a joke and also some facts about Christianity according to CHRISTIAN sources, not me. Perhaps you are the one who should read up a bit more. At any rate, you would have to be blind to see that even with a single sect that people rarely agree on what God says and means, hence why we have apologetics as a major branch of theology.

And for someone who claimed he is, "pretty well read on the bible and actually majored in Religion in college", you appear not to know much about the bible! Either that, or you have a problem with some of the passages in it (like the ones below), which is why you are bringing them up?

The first answer is in Psalm 137, the 2nd is in Exodus 21:15. I was familiar with both passages and it took me 5 seconds to look up the exact verses. So I refuse, refuse, refuse to believe that you can neither open your bible, nor a concordance, nor do a Google search and find this out!
I consider myself well read but just because I can't remember every single verse you are criticizing me?? So, I guess YOU can remember every single verse?? I figured asking about the verses on a site that was likely to have pro's would not only provide the answers but logical EXPLANATIONS instead of just a verse. I appreciate your answers with the verses, and I will look them up, but if all you do is criticize my ignorance on a few verses then I'll just ask you to mind your own business. I have enough people telling me I am imperfect already.

Next, I do believe ByGraceAlone was correct in believing you swore in your posts.
Quoting you : "She also said that Jesus never wrote a &^$% thing in the Bible. That REALLY ****** me off".

Why would you have to use symbols for good, non-swear words?
Uh, no sorry. I didn't. Can you show me where I used an actual swear word? Can you show me where it was in my own words and not speaking for someone else?

What is your issue with 'swear words' anyway? Its not like I was talking our Lord's name in vain. So stop trying to be my mommy and just be my friend in Christ.

As an educated Christian, surely you know that none of a non-believer's "good works" will mean a thing at the judgment seat of Christ, and that God says that outside of His righteousness ours is as a filthy rag?
So I don't know what your point was in making that comment.
It also says you will know them by their fruit, and she has some GREAT fruit in helping her fellow man with real compassion and love, and that is a perfect sign of GOOD FRUIT. It is my belief she is meant to come to know Jesus. My POINT was that insinuating she is swine is uncalled for. How would you feel if I called your mother a pig and didn't even know her?

I pray that the Lord blesses you with a humble and submissive spirit and leads you to all truth.
And I pray you will understand that a warrior spirit will always get more done for God than hiding in the bushes. Obviously the devil has a choke hold on my cousin's mind and I refuse to let that happen. You can slink away from the lies and challenges to God's word from the devil, but I refuse to be a coward for my beliefs.

Ephesians 6:11 - "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

So, if you do not want to help me, then fine. But at least respect the call to help for my cousin. I'm not here to defend my armour and faith from you brother. You only seem bent on criticizing me for asking for some help and ideas, so is it really your position that we shouldn't defend our faith?? :moon:
 
Rub it in her face is just an expression. I don't actually want to take the verse and rub her face with it.

Why are you preaching at me? lol

She is already receptive...that's why she made the bet lol. As I said earlier, if she was more educated on the Bible, she wouldn't say such things.

Also, it just very well could plant a seed that could lead her to know the real Jesus. That's my goal....is that bad?

How is doing NOTHING going to change anything with her?
often i dont pick up on expressions or sarcasim. what i percieved wasnt your response. sorry.
 
often i dont pick up on expressions or sarcasim. what i percieved wasnt your response. sorry.

No problem my friend. I often miss it too on the internet. I sometimes use too many Southern expressions and it confuses people.
 
Matthew 7:15
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
 
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2 Timothy 1:7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
 
Matthew 7:5 - "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers.":wink:
 
Job 17:2.2 - "2 Surely there are mockers about me, and my eye dwells on their hypocritical provocation."
 
Firstly, i do not appreciate you calling or insinuating my relative is 'swine'. Despite her apparent knowledge of the bible being beyond mine (although ironically she IS an non-believer), she is actually a great person and leads a VERY moral and inspiring life. In fact she gives and volunteers more for humanitarian charities than anyone I know. Her challenge was simply a friendly bet...not a motive with ill intent.

Second, I am doing this FOR God, to help spread his word...not for MY edification. So the glory is to God, no matter what.

So, I appreciate your input, but essentially telling me to 'give up' on my own family and their salvation is simply not an option. It is my duty as a Christian to spread God's word. I won't preach verses at you, as you already know them I'm sure.

A hidden candle does no one any good. :wink:

Wow dude. How old are you ?
 
How old are you?

What does that have to do with anything?

I'm 47.

Was wondering your age because your responses come off as.......'youthful'.

As I said , I appreciate your zeal and fire but you have a lot to learn. I never said to 'give up' on your family and I wasn't calling them swine. The Bible clearly states about sowing seeds on stony ground and to not cast our pearls before the swine. Your getting frustrated and angry and in fact its hurting your witness before them. All that is simple telling us is that there are some folk that are just so hard that if the Holy Spirit can't brake there will then neither are you. Look at the Pharaoh with Moses just to mention one. He didn't give into Moses, he caved in under the mighty hand of God. Through your witness God will soften the hearts of your loved ones......in His time.

You gotta realize something, your kin are just as determined as you. There is more than enough Scripture evidence to prove your point to them, as I'm sure you've provided, they choose not to believe. Some people believe in aliens , not because its been proven , but because they choose to.
 
I'm 47.

Was wondering your age because your responses come off as.......'youthful'.
Youthful??? What's your point there brother? What's this bigotry you have against the young people? Are you actually saying they are all incapable of being understanding of the Holy Spirit or God's word?

I'm far from young, I'm 40. Therefore, your assumption is not only lacking in reasoning, its obviously a bit bigoted towards the young. What if someone told you that your responses came off as 'geriatric'?

Perhaps it would be wise for you to refer to the Golden Rule before making such bigoted assumptions....don't you think?

As I said , I appreciate your zeal and fire but you have a lot to learn. I never said to 'give up' on your family and I wasn't calling them swine. The Bible clearly states about sowing seeds on stony ground and to not cast our pearls before the swine. Your getting frustrated and angry and in fact its hurting your witness before them. All that is simple telling us is that there are some folk that are just so hard that if the Holy Spirit can't brake there will then neither are you. Look at the Pharaoh with Moses just to mention one. He didn't give into Moses, he caved in under the mighty hand of God. Through your witness God will soften the hearts of your loved ones......in His time.

You gotta realize something, your kin are just as determined as you. There is more than enough Scripture evidence to prove your point to them, as I'm sure you've provided, they choose not to believe. Some people believe in aliens , not because its been proven , but because they choose to.

Firstly, there are FAR MORE verses about sharing God's word, the benefit of knowing God's word, than about 'not sharing' God's word.

Apparently you forget, the BEST people to share God's word with is the non-believers, for, what good does it do to just only share his word with other believers? When it comes to sharing the news of salvation is there any more of a waste of time than only preaching to the choir?

Have you forgotten what it is to be a warrior for God...for Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior? Its possible you're in need of a good old fashioned revival brother. Have you forgotten that 'HIS time' is also our time as well? 'Right now' IS HIS time, just as tomorrow would be. :wink:

What would be my crime if I DID want to share the word of God with my relative? You make it sound as if its somehow wrong or against God, simply because she is a non-believer. Show me bible verses where it would be clearly wrong for me to do that, and I will show you two that supports sharing God's word for each one you could possibly post. Care to take that challenge brother?

"People don't light a lamp and put it under a basket but on a lamp stand, and it gives light to everyone." - Matthew 5:15-16.

“So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God” - Romans 10:17.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." - Matthew 23:19-20

You also need to pay attention to context in this thread. I've already stated she is receptive, and actually WANTS to talk about these things. And yet you say I should just not bother? And yes, by obvious insinuation, you DID quite clearly make a statement that I should just give up on her, because apparently...in YOUR OPINION....she is 'stony ground' and a swine? If she was not receptive or wanting to talk, then a case could be made of stony ground, but that's OBVIOUSLY NOT the case, if you would simply pay attention.

What if someone said your mother was swine because she differed in opinion in what scripture said? What if you knew she was simply not educated on what the bible actually says, and that was the reason for her opinion? Would she be swine, or simply ignorant?

It could just as easily be said those who refuse to spread God's word to someone who is WANTING to discuss it, would be the real swine. It could be said if there was ever a case for 'swine' it would be people who refuse to set the record straight about God's word when they have someone receptive and wanting to talk delivered right to their doorstep.

Let me ask you, did Jesus get in the trenches for his lost sheep, or just chose to stay in a glorious, Vatican style palace to shout at the crowd? Personally, I think he should be our example, not fear or cowardice of some 'stony ground' or a differing opinion.

So you say "I" have much to learn?? Who are you to judge? Maybe it is you who needs to learn...ever think about that brother? Perhaps you need to learn not to say bigoted statements. Perhaps you need to weigh the possibility that when you post scripture in attempt to back your OPINION, that there might be MORE scripture that would say otherwise. Perhaps it would be prudent to weigh your words more closely because, first you make bigoted assumptions about young people, and now you compare non-believers to people who believe in aliens?? Could you be any more contradictory in opinion to the bible?

So what's your point about aliens? Are you actually saying you DON'T believe in extra-terrestrials?? And/or that it's somehow wrong to believe in extra-terrestrials?? I ask because according to scripture, that's not a very Christian perspective to not believe in extra-terrestrials.

I pray, in Jesus's name, that your heart is opened and that one day you will understand the true importance of sharing God's word with the lost sheep.
 
Youthful??? What's your point there brother? What's this bigotry you have against the young people? Are you actually saying they are all incapable of being understanding of the Holy Spirit or God's word?

I'm far from young, I'm 40. Therefore, your assumption is not only lacking in reasoning, its obviously a bit bigoted towards the young. What if someone told you that your responses came off as 'geriatric'?

Perhaps it would be wise for you to refer to the Golden Rule before making such bigoted assumptions....don't you think? .



Your responce only proves my point. 40 with a 15 year old mind set.

Sorry dude. :weirdo:
 
Your responce only proves my point. 40 with a 15 year old mind set.

Sorry dude. :weirdo:

Considering YOUR response, I must say that you obviously win the award for the most hypocritical statement I have yet to witness on this forum.

Not only do you not provide any actual counter (with reason) to my points, but you STILL make bigoted remarks about young people?

I would have to say that a 15 year old would have more sense and ability to produce better reasoning than what you display.

So, really Donnie? You cannot come up with a single constructive, rational point? All you have is insults?? Wow. Pretty weak brother. I'll be praying for your brain, and heart, to be healed.
 
1 Corinthians 15:3
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
 
How about we start from the beginning.

You ask...
I'm pretty well read on the bible, but I need a pastor or a bible expert or religion scholer to help me find a verse on Jesus that has been a thorn in my brain since Christmas. I have a close family member, of which I love very much, but I think she might not be saved. She told me several things about the bible that REALLY got me thinking, (some of which you wouldn't believe!). She wasn't being nasty or anything but she said that according to the bible, Jesus never said (himself) that he had come to save people from sin by dying on a cross, and called Christians 'ignorant' for telling people that was his main purpose when he never said it himself outright. She actually believes Christians just made it up to say it was our salvation (?), or something like that? Anyway, I'd REALLY like to rub it in her face and find the verse where Jesus said he came to save people from sin by dying on a cross.

I bet her that I could find the exact verse where Jesus said it. Can someone tell me the verse? I KNOW its got to be there because Jesus said it was his purpose for us, but I can't seem to remember it.

But, can you imagine? Not believing Jesus had really said that?!! Grrrrr!!
I'm going to PROVE that SHE is the ignorant one, not us! We don't just "make up" our salvation!!

Anyone got that verse?

I respond with......

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Thes. 4:14-18


<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif; MARGIN-LEFT: auto; FONT-SIZE: 100%; MARGIN-RIGHT: auto" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=t_verse vAlign=top>14</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 100%" class=t_text vAlign=top>For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=t_verse vAlign=top>15</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 100%" class=t_text vAlign=top>For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=t_verse vAlign=top>16</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 100%" class=t_text vAlign=top>For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:</TD></TR><TR><TD class=t_verse vAlign=top>17</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 100%" class=t_text vAlign=top>Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=t_verse vAlign=top>18</TD><TD style="WIDTH: 100%" class=t_text vAlign=top>Wherefore comfort one another with these words.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

And another response trying to encourage you.

I appreciate your zeal , but if you won the battle/fight/bet then God wouldn't be getting the glory.
I feel and can relate to your frustration , some of my family is the same way. Ya just gotta let go and let God. Arguing and debating with them only further hardens there heart. Remember , they want to win this battle as well ...don't give them any more fuel for there fire.

Matthew 13:18
Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


And then you get all offended at what scripture says ?

Firstly, i do not appreciate you calling or insinuating my relative is 'swine'. Despite her apparent knowledge of the bible being beyond mine (although ironically she IS an non-believer), she is actually a great person and leads a VERY moral and inspiring life. In fact she gives and volunteers more for humanitarian charities than anyone I know. Her challenge was simply a friendly bet...not a motive with ill intent.

Second, I am doing this FOR God, to help spread his word...not for MY edification. So the glory is to God, no matter what.

So, I appreciate your input, but essentially telling me to 'give up' on my own family and their salvation is simply not an option. It is my duty as a Christian to spread God's word. I won't preach verses at you, as you already know them I'm sure.

A hidden candle does no one any good. :wink:

Because you respond so hostel I was assuming you were a young kid new in his faith and not yet matured in dialog. Come to find out I was partially right.

Wow dude. How old are you ?

How old are you?

What does that have to do with anything?

I'm 47.

Was wondering your age because your responses come off as.......'youthful'.

As I said , I appreciate your zeal and fire but you have a lot to learn. I never said to 'give up' on your family and I wasn't calling them swine. The Bible clearly states about sowing seeds on stony ground and to not cast our pearls before the swine. Your getting frustrated and angry and in fact its hurting your witness before them. All that is simple telling us is that there are some folk that are just so hard that if the Holy Spirit can't brake there will then neither are you. Look at the Pharaoh with Moses just to mention one. He didn't give into Moses, he caved in under the mighty hand of God. Through your witness God will soften the hearts of your loved ones......in His time.

You gotta realize something, your kin are just as determined as you. There is more than enough Scripture evidence to prove your point to them, as I'm sure you've provided, they choose not to believe. Some people believe in aliens , not because its been proven , but because they choose to.

I think the more you go on and on my point becomes more obvious.

Youthful??? What's your point there brother? What's this bigotry you have against the young people? Are you actually saying they are all incapable of being understanding of the Holy Spirit or God's word?

I'm far from young, I'm 40. Therefore, your assumption is not only lacking in reasoning, its obviously a bit bigoted towards the young. What if someone told you that your responses came off as 'geriatric'?

Perhaps it would be wise for you to refer to the Golden Rule before making such bigoted assumptions....don't you think?



Firstly, there are FAR MORE verses about sharing God's word, the benefit of knowing God's word, than about 'not sharing' God's word.

Apparently you forget, the BEST people to share God's word with is the non-believers, for, what good does it do to just only share his word with other believers? When it comes to sharing the news of salvation is there any more of a waste of time than only preaching to the choir?

Have you forgotten what it is to be a warrior for God...for Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior? Its possible you're in need of a good old fashioned revival brother. Have you forgotten that 'HIS time' is also our time as well? 'Right now' IS HIS time, just as tomorrow would be. :wink:

What would be my crime if I DID want to share the word of God with my relative? You make it sound as if its somehow wrong or against God, simply because she is a non-believer. Show me bible verses where it would be clearly wrong for me to do that, and I will show you two that supports sharing God's word for each one you could possibly post. Care to take that challenge brother?

"People don't light a lamp and put it under a basket but on a lamp stand, and it gives light to everyone." - Matthew 5:15-16.

“So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God” - Romans 10:17.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." - Matthew 23:19-20

You also need to pay attention to context in this thread. I've already stated she is receptive, and actually WANTS to talk about these things. And yet you say I should just not bother? And yes, by obvious insinuation, you DID quite clearly make a statement that I should just give up on her, because apparently...in YOUR OPINION....she is 'stony ground' and a swine? If she was not receptive or wanting to talk, then a case could be made of stony ground, but that's OBVIOUSLY NOT the case, if you would simply pay attention.

What if someone said your mother was swine because she differed in opinion in what scripture said? What if you knew she was simply not educated on what the bible actually says, and that was the reason for her opinion? Would she be swine, or simply ignorant?

It could just as easily be said those who refuse to spread God's word to someone who is WANTING to discuss it, would be the real swine. It could be said if there was ever a case for 'swine' it would be people who refuse to set the record straight about God's word when they have someone receptive and wanting to talk delivered right to their doorstep.

Let me ask you, did Jesus get in the trenches for his lost sheep, or just chose to stay in a glorious, Vatican style palace to shout at the crowd? Personally, I think he should be our example, not fear or cowardice of some 'stony ground' or a differing opinion.

So you say "I" have much to learn?? Who are you to judge? Maybe it is you who needs to learn...ever think about that brother? Perhaps you need to learn not to say bigoted statements. Perhaps you need to weigh the possibility that when you post scripture in attempt to back your OPINION, that there might be MORE scripture that would say otherwise. Perhaps it would be prudent to weigh your words more closely because, first you make bigoted assumptions about young people, and now you compare non-believers to people who believe in aliens?? Could you be any more contradictory in opinion to the bible?

So what's your point about aliens? Are you actually saying you DON'T believe in extra-terrestrials?? And/or that it's somehow wrong to believe in extra-terrestrials?? I ask because according to scripture, that's not a very Christian perspective to not believe in extra-terrestrials.

I pray, in Jesus's name, that your heart is opened and that one day you will understand the true importance of sharing God's word with the lost sheep.

Your response only proves my point. 40 with a 15 year old mind set.

Sorry dude. :weirdo:
This is just my way of trying to relate to you.

Considering YOUR response, I must say that you obviously win the award for the most hypocritical statement I have yet to witness on this forum.

Not only do you not provide any actual counter (with reason) to my points, but you STILL make bigoted remarks about young people?

I would have to say that a 15 year old would have more sense and ability to produce better reasoning than what you display.

So, really Donnie? You cannot come up with a single constructive, rational point? All you have is insults?? Wow. Pretty weak brother. I'll be praying for your brain, and heart, to be healed.

This whole stupid contest started with you not accepting the verses I presented , mainly the 'swine' one. You obviously have a very competitive nature about you...YOU HAVE JUST GOTTA WIN. You feel a need to win the fight with your family, as well as this one you've started with me. Myself and others here at JT have provided plenty verses and advise to help you in this but you insist on thinking God needs your help in winning them. Your problem isn't a lack of Bible verses ....its your pride.

You won. :surrender:
 
This whole stupid contest started with you not accepting the verses I presented , mainly the 'swine' one. You obviously have a very competitive nature about you...YOU HAVE JUST GOTTA WIN. You feel a need to win the fight with your family, as well as this one you've started with me. Myself and others here at JT have provided plenty verses and advise to help you in this but you insist on thinking God needs your help in winning them. Your problem isn't a lack of Bible verses ....its your pride.

You won. :surrender:

Uuugh, no, it was because those verses did not meet the criteria of the bet. How many times do I have to point that out? Sheesh.
They were not in his own words, were too vague by not having all the points of the message of saving sins by dying on a cross, or because they were completely irrelevant. It had NOTHING to do with personal pride, but pride in God's word being defended.

I will admit that I had to eat MUCH crow with her because she was actually right, not only on that point, but pretty much all the points she made with me. If anything THAT was a dent in my armour. To be honest, I'm quite surprised the bible condones killing innocent children, and smashing babies upon rocks, ripping open pregnant women, and not a thing about abortion, specifically.

So, I'm doing a bit of research on these things.

Always learning. :embarasse
 
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