born again?
- Thread starter jari
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philosopher
Member
The biggest sign that someone is truly born again, is their fruits, and a complete change in their walk in life. Jesus said: ''with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible''. This shows that repentance is a gift from God and cannot come about with just flesh.
B-A-C
Loyal
I guess for me, it's just ask, believe and receive.
There' not really much more to it. Maybe sometimes we try to make it too hard. I don't think there's a formula or a ritual, just a personal relationship. When you know Jesus, you know.
Some people say hey are "Christians" and that they are "saved", yet they are continually trying to earn it, or prove it, if they pray enough, or do enough penance, or pray enough, or give enough, or keep from sinning enough, then they'll be saved? That isn't what my Bible says. Besides, once you are saved, you don't need to keep getting re-saved over and over again. ( John 13:10 ) besides if we can do enough good or keep from sinning enough, why do we need Jesus?
There' not really much more to it. Maybe sometimes we try to make it too hard. I don't think there's a formula or a ritual, just a personal relationship. When you know Jesus, you know.
Some people say hey are "Christians" and that they are "saved", yet they are continually trying to earn it, or prove it, if they pray enough, or do enough penance, or pray enough, or give enough, or keep from sinning enough, then they'll be saved? That isn't what my Bible says. Besides, once you are saved, you don't need to keep getting re-saved over and over again. ( John 13:10 ) besides if we can do enough good or keep from sinning enough, why do we need Jesus?
yes I agree.
I know Jesus is real. What bugs me however is knowing how God views us. And I wonder how God changes us and what He gives us.
well spiritual gift tongues is one, one could receive, for example.
yes. it's a free gift i believe. doesn't require to pay it back.
B-A-C
Loyal
Ahhhh... sorry I misunderstood what you originally meant.
As someone else said earlier, I think gifts of the spirit and fruits of the spirit.
The gifts can be a private thing, other people may not even know your gift.
The fruits are a public thing, these are what determines your maturity as a Christian (not the gifts). The fruits may not all the sudden happen at once, I think for most of us, it's a process of sanctification and growing in the Lord.
The gifts are mostly in 1 Cor 12, The fruits are mostly at Gal 5:22-23
The fruits of the flesh are listed at Gal 5:19-21
I think this is what the Bible is talking about when it says we are a city on a hill, ( Matt 5:14) a light that shouldn't be hidden (and usually can not be hidden, at least for very long)
When you are around someone long enough, you can almost always tell which fruit is prevalent in their life. The spirit or the flesh.
Also by our love for one another John 13:35
I don't think agape love can come from the flesh, we may love our spouse and children, but to love someone else, just because they are a fellow believer, I think this has to come from God.
Someone said we aren't to try to determine if others are saved, I disagree. For one thing, we are supposed to be equally yoked when we marry, how could we be equally yoked (2 Cor 6:14 ), if we don't know if they are a Christian? Timothy and Titus give a great number of standards that elders, deacons, and leaders in the church need to live up to. It says if they don't we shouldn't let them be leaders. Some say we aren't supposed to judge others, but this isn't really what the Bible says. we aren't supposed to judge non-believers, but we are supposed to hold other Christians accountable and lift them up. The says we are forgiven as we forgive others (Matt 7:2 ) and judged as we judge others, ( John 7:24 ) but it doesn't say not to judge them at all. ( Matt 7:20 ) ( 1 Cor 11:13 )
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Hello Jari.
Romans 10:9
"That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.".
When born again one receives Jesus Christ as personal savior, accepts Jesus into one's heart and as a result there is a conscious change in the heart and one's life.
1) The personal confession of Jesus (belief).
2) Change in the person over time, more Godly (new creation).
3) It is a spiritual transformation, hence the person will gradually
understand the things of the Spirit more. More reliance over time
on the scripture. Very deep relationship with other Christians.
Even deeper reliance on Jesus.
You will know them by the fruit they bear.
Romans 10:9
"That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.".
When born again one receives Jesus Christ as personal savior, accepts Jesus into one's heart and as a result there is a conscious change in the heart and one's life.
1) The personal confession of Jesus (belief).
2) Change in the person over time, more Godly (new creation).
3) It is a spiritual transformation, hence the person will gradually
understand the things of the Spirit more. More reliance over time
on the scripture. Very deep relationship with other Christians.
Even deeper reliance on Jesus.
You will know them by the fruit they bear.
If a person has not yet received the Holy Spirit (born again),
by which spirit would he/she yield "fruit" ?
Thiscrosshurts
Active
Excellent question,I think that deserves some consideration.
It brought me to the question can one be born again accidentally,or without knowing?I know some unbelievers(when I met them)that acted by faith and had an uncanny trust in life itself.It's as though they had the gospel in their hearts without knowing what it was.I came from a Large Catholic family that did not know anything about the Bible but they knew that love is the most powerful force there is.Miracles were common place but the Bible was just a decoration.
Is it really about a certain elocution and tone that we say his name or confess his name?
Jesus means salvation or saving,love is busy saving so when we love are we confessing his name or only when our voice says "Jesus".
Our tongue is like a rudder so when we use our tongues in love are we confessing his name by the course we are steering on?
We are told there is enough information in nature to leave us without excuse.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
How many has God bound over to disobedience?
How many will he have mercy on?
can you be born again and not know it?
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yes will i understand that. but observing fruit is not very practical to me... atleast doesnt answer my question.
as even disciples did work for Jesus before receiving holy spirit.
B-A-C
Loyal
Was the question when were they saved? Or when did they receive the Holy Spirit? I believe now it happens at the same time. I believe in the time of apostles the Holy Spirit wasn't yet given (until the day of Pentecost in Acts 2) Jesus did empower the 70 to do miracles and cast out demons, but they were a special case. Again, having the power to do miracles isn't what saves you or "proves" that you are saved.
Observing fruit is very practical, and producing fruit is even more practical. How many people will get saved because you can speak in tongues? Probably not that many. How many might get saved because you show them love and compassion and have joy in your life.. I'm guessing this is a lot more effective ministry.
The Bible does't say "You'll know they are Christians because they can do miracles" no it says because of their love.
Even Pharoahs magicians could do "miraculous things" and Simon the sorceror and others in the Bible. The Beast himself will be to do seeming miracles. None of these things mean you are saved.
Are the non-Christians that have some compassion and joy and forgiveness. Possibly some, everyone has SOME love and SOME joy in the lives, but do they love their enemies, are they joyful even in the face of persecution? Do they have compassion on people that have wronged them in the past? I have seen very very few non Christians to consistently do all of the these things over a long period of time.
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Jari, the disciples' "work" before they receive the Holy Spirit is more or less powered by their own strength and the sheer fascination for the amazing Lord whom they have the opportunity to be with personally.
As it is recorded in the Scriptures, their "work" ended in desertion and denial. But compare those with their faith and absolute conviction after they have been indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
Big difference, isn't it?
yes it is. they beared some fruit though.
Born again
Jari, there were many cases of people moving in the porwe of Holy Spirit in OT.
At the time before Holy Spirit was poured out, He would come upon people for certain occasions and times, but did not remain with the person.
It seems that this may have been the case with the apostles.
Jari, there were many cases of people moving in the porwe of Holy Spirit in OT.
At the time before Holy Spirit was poured out, He would come upon people for certain occasions and times, but did not remain with the person.
It seems that this may have been the case with the apostles.
El Hombre viejo
Member
Jari You said "yes I agree.
I know Jesus is real. What bugs me however is knowing how God views us. And I wonder how God changes us and what He gives us.
well spiritual gift tongues is one, one could receive, for example."
You don't know how GOD sees you? Really? Start at Genesis 1:1 and read through to Rev 22:21
The entire book is about you. GOD created you, planned a totally wonderful life for you living with HIM as FATHER and child. Saved you from Satans trap. Gave is own SON to save you in fact. HE provided for all your needs and wants. HE healed you, blessed you, put you in charge of your world and you don't know how HE thinks of you, how HE sees you?
Jari. When GOD looks at you HE sees you exactly the way HE sees JESUS!!!!
JESUS is HIS son..You are HIS son. HIS WORD says that HE is not a respecter of persons. HE does not prefer one over the other. You are a co-heir with JESUS. Everything that JESUS has also belongs to you.