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What does Jesus mean when he says

If Christians cannot and do not sin then why do we need to confess our sins?
If behavior, lifestyle, do not matter.. then why does 2 Cor 5:9 say that God will judge our actions?

If you have been reconciled by the blood of Christ, if you are a new creation.
Then you are perfect in God's eyes are you not, this is the powerful spiritual
realization of the Gospel. How could you possibly be found wanting, since
your righteousness is the righteousness of Christ.

Salvation is not performance based James, salvation is a direct result
of the belief in Jesus Christ. Works and behavior are the result of the
reconciliation, they do not initiate the reconciliation.


1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
( a person who is not conscious of sin would not believe in Jesus)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
( confession of sin and believing in Jesus is the Gospel)
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
( Jesus came to save the lost, sinners, not the healthy, self righteous)


2 Corinthians 5
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ,
he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,
not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf,
be reconciled to God.
21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us,
that we might become a the righteousness of God in Him.
 
If Christians cannot and do not sin then why do we need to confess our sins?
If behavior, lifestyle, do not matter.. then why does 2 Cor 5:9 say that God will judge our actions?


Hi James1523,

We both agree that it's obvious that the physical part of us is imperfect.
We differ in that you label it's failings as "sin", whereas I refer to God's definitions of "sin" and that "sin" does not apply to Christians as that old man is dead, Rom 6:6, Rom 8:9, Gal 2:20

Below I'll offer some of God's definitions of sin and show how they do not apply to Christians. I hope this helps to clear things up.

God’s definitions of sin are basically covered by the following examples:

1: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, Mark3:29 . This sin will not be forgiven. Christians do not commit this sin.

2:Unbelief in Jesus, John16:9 . This is the sin the world is convicted of. Christians do not commit this sin either.

3: “all unrighteousness is sin”, 1 John 5:17 Christians are righteous in Christ so here we do not sin.

4: “Sin is transgression of the law”,1 John 3:4 This is breaking the law/10 commandments resulting in a death penalty for transgression.
Christians cannot be accused of sin here as we are not under the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus SETS FREE from the law of sin and death, (Romans 8:2). Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, Rom 10:4.


Regarding the law of sin and death it should be noted that:
“whatever the law says it says to those who are UNDER IT” (Romans 3:19, 20).
the law is not made for a righteous man (Christians)......but for the ungody and sinners" (1 Tim 1:9).
“where there is NO LAW there is NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN)” (Rom 4:15).

So, with these scriptures in mind, can Christians be judged/accused of "sin"?
"Who shall lay ANYTHING to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies", Rom 8:33
"Whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9


We know sin was dealt with once and for all on the cross.
And “Our old man is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed” Romans 6:6.
Hence we see in 1 Peter 4:1 “Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Romans 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Romans 6:6) has CEASED from sin,”.


Of course we still see Christians doing wrong (erroneously referred to as sin under man’s ambiguous definitions), but as sons of God we are chastised for our wrong.
But, regarding sin/transgression of the law, Satan the accuser cannot charge us with this. God has justified us.

Consider also 1 Peter 4:18 “If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear”.
Clearly there are 2 different groups described here.
Group 1: Righteous (and saved).
Group 2: Ungodly/Sinner (unsaved).
Either we are righteous (in Christ) OR we are sinners. We CAN”T be both.

ONLY PAST sin was remitted at the cross (Rom 3:25). And as the scriptures above show, Christians cannot sin in Christ. Our righteousness is by faith instead (Rom 4:5). So once in Christ there is no more "sin". All past sin was remitted and there is no more future charges of sin to be laid against us. Remember Satan the accuser cannot charge us with "sin" (Rom 8:33).
Jesus truly set us free from sin, (John 8:36).

As for 2Cor 5:10, it speaks of people being judged for doing "good or bad". It's a wrong assumption to see this "good or bad" as referring to physical behavior.

Consider the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". Was he judged by his lifestyle or was he saved by grace?

What 2Cor 5:10 speaks of is "good" being believing in Jesus, which is righteousness by faith or "bad" being unbelief in Jesus (John 16:9), which is trying to establish your own righteousness.
 
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We are a new creation, what determines this? What we say we believe? Or our actions?
Here is part of a sermon by Martin Luther. This is his thoughts on grace.

Martin Luther Sermons
In 1521 the reformer preached a sermon called 'The Three Kinds of Good Life for the Instruction of Consciences,' found in vol. 44 of LW.

He says there are 'three kinds of conscience and three kinds of sin, as well as three kinds of the good life with three kinds of good works' (235). The first kind 'is concerned only with outward works' (235). 'As a result of this kind of teaching, people become hardened and blind' (236). '[T]heir holiness is circumscribed by their five senses and their bodily existence. And yet, this very holiness shines brighter in the eyes of the world than does real holiness' (238). This is the Pharisee, the person who does the right things but with a rotten heart.

The second kind of person has a well-developed conscience. It understands 'humility, meekness, gentleness, peace, fidelity, love, propriety, purity, and the like' (239). Such people, however, 'set about them in the wrong way' (240). They 'maintain a pious posture not out of their own desire, but because they fear disgrace, punishment, or hell. . . . And this false ground is so deep that no saint has ever fathomed its bottom.' Such people have a sensitive conscience, unlike the first kind, but they follow it not from godliness but self-love. Luther then prepares to transition into the third kind of person. 'God does not just want such works by themselves. He wants them to be performed gladly and willingly. And when there is no joy in doing them and the right will and motive are absent, then they are dead in God's eyes' (240). Luther explains that none of us can rise above this second kind of person of our own ability.

The third kind of person is different not in externals but is qualitatively different in the heart--this person wants to obey. They are characterized by two realities, says Luther: self-denial and the Holy Spirit. He then concludes: 'When the Spirit comes . . . look, he makes a pure, free, cheerful, glad, and loving heart, a heart which is simply gratuitously righteous, seeking no reward, fearing no punishment. Such a heart is holy for the sake of holiness . . . and does everything with joy' (241-42).

The helpfulness and profundity of all these thinkers is their articulation of that middle way, between all-out rebellion and glad gospel obedience, of (where we all live) begrudging obedience that obeys like paying a tax, hoping that afterward we'll have some money to spend on ourselves, and failing to see that such 'obedience' is just as much a rejection of the gospel as open rebellion.
 
Here is a similar message by Spurgeon, it's quite long, so I will post it in 3 parts.

<center>The Obedience of Faith


A Sermon
(No. 2195)
Delivered on Thursday Evening, August 21st, 1890, by
C. H. SPURGEON,
At the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington

</center>
"By faith Abraham when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went."—Hebrews 11:8.​
THE part of the text to which I shall call your attention lies in these words, "By faith Abraham obeyed." Obedience—what a blessing it would be if we were all trained to it by the Holy Spirit! How fully should we be restored if we were perfect in it! If all the world would obey the Lord, what a heaven on earth there would be! Perfect obedience to God would mean love among men, justice to all classes, and peace in every land. Our will brings envy, malice, war; but the Lord's will would bring us love, joy, rest, bliss. Obedience—let us pray for it for ourselves and others!

<center>"Is there a heart that will not bend
To thy divine control?
Descend, O sovereign love, descend,
And melt that stubborn soul! "</center>
Surely, though we have had to mourn our disobedience with many tears and sighs, we now find joy in yielding ourselves as servants of the Lord: our deepest desire is to do the Lord's will in all things. Oh, for obedience! It has been supposed by many ill-instructed people that the doctrine of justification by faith is opposed to the teaching of good works, or obedience. There is no truth in the supposition. We preach the obedience of faith. Faith is the fountain, the foundation, and the fosterer of obedience. Men obey not God till they believe him. We preach faith in order that men may be brought to obedience. To disbelieve is to disobey. One of the first signs of practical obedience is found in the obedience of the mind, the understanding, and the heart; and this is expressed in believing the teaching of Christ, trusting to his work, and resting in his salvation. Faith is the morning star of obedience. If we would work the work of God, we must believe on Jesus Christ whom he hath sent. Brethren, we do not give a secondary place to obedience, as some suppose. We look upon the obedience of the heart to the will of God as salvation. The attainment of perfect obedience would mean perfect salvation. We regard sanctification, or obedience, as the great design for which the Saviour died. He shed his blood that he might cleanse us from dead works, and purify unto himself a people zealous for good works. It is for this that we were chosen: we are "elect unto holiness." We know nothing of election to continue in sin. It is for this that we have been called: we are "called to be saints." Obedience is the grand object of the work of grace in the hearts of those who are chosen and called: they are to become obedient children, conformed to the image of the Elder Brother, with whom the Father is well pleased.
The obedience that comes of faith is of a noble sort. The obedience of a slave ranks very little higher than the obedience of a well-trained horse or dog, for it is tuned to the crack of the whip. Obedience which is not cheerfully rendered is not the obedience of the heart, and consequently is of little worth before God. If the man obeys because he has no opportunity of doing otherwise, and if, were he free, he would at once become a rebel—there is nothing in his obedience. The obedience of faith springs from a principle within, and not from compulsion without. It is sustained by the mind's soberest reasoning and the heart's warmest passion. The man reasons with himself that he ought to obey his Redeemer, his Father, his God; and, at the same time, the love of Christ constrains him so to do, and thus what argument suggests affection performs. A sense of great obligation, an apprehension of the fitness of obedience, and spiritual renewal of heart, work an obedience which becomes essential to the sanctified soul. Hence, it is not relaxed in the time of temptation, nor destroyed in the hour of losses and sufferings. Life has no trial which can turn the gracious soul from its passion for obedience; and death itself doth but enable it to render an obedience which shall be as blissful as it will be complete. Yes, this is a chief ingredient of heaven—that we shall see the face of our Lord, and serve him day and night in his temple. Meanwhile, the more fully we obey at this present, the nearer we shall be to his temple-gate. May the Holy Spirit work in us, so that, by faith—like Abraham—we may obey !
I preach to you, at this time, obedience—absolute obedience to the Lord God; but I preach the obedience of a child, not the obedience of a slave; the obedience of love, not of terror; the obedience of faith, not of dread. I shall urge you, as God shall help me, in order that you may come at this obedience, that you should seek after stronger faith—"For by faith Abraham obeyed." In every case where the father of the faithful obeyed, it was the result of his faith; and in every case in which you and I shall render true obedience, it will be the product of our faith. Obedience, such as God can accept, never cometh out of a heart which thinks God a liar; but is wrought in us by the Spirit of the Lord, through our believing in the truth, and love, and grace of our God in Christ Jesus. If any of you are now disobedient, or have been so, the road to a better state of things is trust in God. You cannot hope to render obedience by the more forcing of conduct into a certain groove, or by a personal, unaided effort of the resolution. There is a free-grace road to obedience, and that is receiving, by faith, the Lord Jesus, who is the gift of God, and is made of God unto us sanctification. We accept the Lord Jesus by faith, and he teaches us obedience, and creates it in us. The more of faith in him you have, the more of obedience to him will you manifest. I was about to say that that obedience naturally flows out of faith, and I should not have spoken amiss, for as a man believeth so is he, and in proportion to the strength and purity of his faith in God, as he is revealed in Christ Jesus, will be the holy obedience of his life.
That our meditation may be profitable, we will first think a little of the kind of faith which produces obedience; and then, secondly, we will treat of the kind of obedience which faith produces; and then we will advance another step, and consider the kind of life which comes out of this faith and obedience.
I will be as brief as I can upon each point. Let us look up to the Holy Ghost for his gracious illumination.
I. First consider THE KIND OF FAITH WHICH PRODUCES OBEDIENCE.
It is, manifestly, faith in God as having the right to command our obedience. Beloved in the Lord, you know that he is Sovereign, and that his will is law. You feel that God, your Maker, your Preserver, your Redeemer, and your Father, should have your unswerving service. We unite, also, in confessing that we are not our own, we are bought with a price. The Lord our God has a right to us which we would not wish to question. He has a greater claim upon our ardent service than he has upon the services of angels; for, while they were created as we have been, yet they have never been redeemed by precious blood. Our glorious Incarnate God has an unquestioned right to every breath we breathe, to every thought we think, to every moment of our lives, and to every capacity of our being. We believe in Jehovah as rightful Lawgiver, and as most fitly our Ruler. This loyalty of our mind is based on faith, and is a chief prompter to obedience. Cultivate always this feeling. The Lord is our Father, but he is, "our Father which art in heaven." He draws near to us in condescension; but it is condescension, and we must not presume to think of him as though he were such a one as ourselves. There is a holy familiarity with God which cannot be too much enjoyed; but there is a flippant familiarity with God which cannot be too much abhorred. The Lord is King; his will is not to be questioned; his every word is law. Let us never question his sovereign right to decree what he pleases, and to fulfil the decree; to command what he pleases, and to punish every shortcoming. Because we have faith in God as Lord of all, we gladly pay him our homage, and desire in all things to say: "Thy will be done in earth, as it is done in heaven."
 
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Next, we must have faith in the rightness of all that God says or does. I hope, beloved, you do not think of God's sovereignty as tyranny, or imagine that he ever could or would will anything but that which is right. Neither will we admit into our minds a suspicion of the incorrectness of the Word of God in any matter whatever, as though the Lord himself could err. We will not have it that God, in his Holy Book, makes mistakes about matters of history, or of science, any more than he does upon the great truths of salvation. If the Lord be God, he must be infallible; and if he can be described as in error in the little respects of human history and science, he cannot be trusted in the greater matters. My brethren, Jehovah never errs in deed, or in word; and when you find his law written either in the ten commandments, or anywhere else, you believe that there is not a precept too many, or too few. Whatever may be the precepts of the law, or of the gospel, they are pure and holy altogether. The words of the Lord are like fine gold, pure, precious, and weighty—not ono of them may be neglected. We hear people talk about "minor points," and so on; but we must not consider any word of our God as a minor thing, if by that expression is implied that it is of small importance. We must accept every single word of precept, or prohibition, or instruction, as being what it ought to be, and neither to be diminished nor increased. We should not reason about the command of God as though it might be set aside or amended. He bids: we obey. May we enter into that true spirit of obedience which is the unshaken belief that the Lord is right! Nothing short of this is the obedience of the inner man—the obedience which the Lord desires.
Furthermore, we must have faith in the Lord's call upon us to obey. Abraham wont out from his father's house because he felt that, whatever God said to others, he had spoken to him, and said, "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house." Whatever the Lord may have said to the Chald‘ans, or to other families in Ur, Abraham was not so much concerned with that as with the special word of command which the Lord had sent to his own soul. Oh, that we were most of all earnest to render personal obedience! It is very easy to offer unto God a sort of "other people's obedience"—to fancy that we are serving God, when we are finding fault with our neighbours, and lamenting that they are not so godly as they ought to be. Truly, we cannot help seeing their shortcomings; but we should do well to be less observant of them than we are. Let us turn our magnifying glasses upon ourselves. It is not so much our business to be weeding other people's gardens as to keep our own vineyard. To the Lord each one should cry, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" We, who are his chosen, redeemed from among men, called out from the rest of mankind, ought to feel that if no other ears hear the divine call, our ears must hear it; and if no other heart obeys, our soul rejoices to do so. We are bound with cords to the horns of the altar. The strongest ties of gratitude hold us to the service of Jesus: we must be obedient in life to him who, for our sakes, was obedient unto death. Our service to our Lord is freedom: we will to yield to his will. To delight him is our delight. It is a blessed thing when the inmost nature yearns to obey God, when obedience grows into a habit, and becomes the very element in which the spirit breathes. Surely it should be so with every one of the blood-washed children of the Most High, and their lives will prove that it is so. Others are bound to obey, but we should attend most to our own personal obligation, and set our own houses in order. Our obedience should begin at home, and it will find its hands full enough there.
Obedience arises out of a faith which is to us the paramount principle of action. The kind of faith which produces obedience is lord of the understanding, a royal faith. The true believer believes in God beyond all his belief in anything else, and everything else. He can say, "Let God be true, but every man a liar." His faith in God has become to him the crown of all his believings; the most assured of all his confidences. As gold is to the inferior metals, such is our trust in God to all our other trusts. To the genuine believer the eternal is as much above the temporal as the heavens are above the earth. The infinite rolls, like Noah's flood, over the tops of the hills of the present and the finite. To the believer, let a truth be tinctured with the glory of God, and he values it; but if God and eternity be not there, he will leave these trifles to those who choose them. You must have a paramount faith in God, or else the will of God will not be a paramount rule to you. Only a reigning faith will make us subject to its power, so as to be in all things obedient to the Lord. The chief thought in life with the true believer is, "How can I obey God?" His great anxiety is to do the will of God, or acceptably to suffer that will; and if he can obey, he will make no terms with God, and stand upon no reservations. He will pray, "Refine me from the dross of rebellion, and let the furnace be as fierce as thou wilt." His choice is neither wealth, nor ease, nor honour; but that ho may glorify God in his body, and his spirit, which are the Lord's. Obedience has become as much his rule as self-will is the rule of others. His cry unto the Lord is, "By thy command I stay or go. Thy will is my will; thy pleasure is my pleasure; thy law is my love."
God grant us a supreme, over-mastering faith, for this is the kind of faith which we must have if we are to lead obedient lives! We must have faith in God's right to rule, faith in the rightness of his commands, faith in our personal obligation to obey, and faith that the command must be the paramount authority of our being. With this faith of God's elect, we shall realise the object of our election—namely, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love.
Dear friend, have you this kind of faith? I will withdraw the question as directed to you, and I will ask it of myself: Have I that faith which leads me to obey my God?—for obedience, if it be of the kind we are speaking of, is faith in action—faith walking with God, or, shall I say, walking before the Lord in the land of the living? If we have a faith which is greedy in hearing, severe in judging, and rapid in self-congratulation, but not inclined to obedience, we have the faith of hypocrites. If our faith enables us to set up as patterns of sound doctrine, and qualifies us to crack the heads of all who differ from us, and yet lacks the fruit of obedience, it will leave us among the "dogs" who are "'without." The faith that makes us obey is alone the faith which marks the children of God. It is better to have the faith that obeys than the faith which moves mountains. I would sooner have the faith which obeys than the faith which heaps the altar of God with sacrifices, and perfumes his courts with incense. I would rather obey God than rule an empire; for, after all, the loftiest sovereignty a soul can inherit is to have dominion over self by rendering believing obedience to the Most High.
Thus much upon faith. "By faith Abraham obeyed;" and by faith only can you and I obey.
II. Let us consider, secondly, THE KIND OF OBEDIENCE WHICH FAITH PRODUCES. This I shall illustrate from the whole of the verse.
Genuine faith in God creates a prompt obedience. "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed." There was an immediate response to the command. Delayed obedience is disobedience. I wish some Christians, who put off duty, would remember this. Continued delay of duty is a continuous sin. If I do not obey the divine command, I sin; and every moment that I continue in that condition, I repeat the sin. This is a serious matter. If a certain act is my duty at this hour, an I leave it undone, I have sinned; but it will be equally incumbent upon me during the next hour; and if I still refuse, I disobey again and so on till I do obey. Neglect of a standing command must grow very grievous if it be persisted in for years. In proportion as the conscience becomes callous upon the subject, the guilt becomes the more provoking to the Lord. To refuse to do right is a great evil; but to continue in that refusal till conscience grows numb upon the matter is far worse. I remember a person coming to be baptised, who said that he had been a believer in the Lord Jesus for forty years; and that he had always seen the ordinance to be Scriptural. I felt grieved that he had so long been disobedient to a known duty, and I proposed to him that he should be baptised at once. It was in a village, and he said that there were no conveniences. I offered to go with him to the brook, and baptise him, but he said, "No; he that believeth shall not make haste." Here was one who had wilfully disobeyed his Lord, for as many years as the Israelites in the wilderness, upon a matter so easy of performance; and yet, after confessing his fault he was not willing to amend it, but perverted a passage of Scripture to excuse him in further delay. David says, "I made hast and delayed not to keep thy commandments." I give this case as typical illustration; there are a hundred spiritual, moral, domestic business, and religious duties, which men put off in the same manner as if they thought that any time would do for God, and he must take his turn with the rest. What would you say to your boy, if you bade him go upon an errand, and he answered you, "I will go to-morrow." Surely you would "morrow" him in a style which would abide upon his memory. Your tone would be sharp, and you would bid him go at once. If he, then, promised to run in an hour's time, would you call that obedience? It would be impudence. Obedience is for the present tense: it must be prompt, or it is nothing. Obedience respects the time of the command as much as any other part of it. To hesitate is to be disloyal. To halt and consider whether you will obey or not, is rebellion in the germ. If thou believest in the living God unto eternal life, thou wilt be quick to do thy Lord's bidding, even as a maid hearkens to her mistress. Thou wilt not be as the horse, which needs whip and spur; thy love will do more for thee than compulsion could do for slaves. Thou wilt have wings to thy heels to hasten thee along the way of obedience. "To-day, if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts."
 
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Next, obedience should be exact. Even Abraham's obedience failed somewhat in this at first; for he started at once from Ur of the Chaldees, but he only went as far as Haran, and there he stayed till his father died; and then the precept came to him again, and he set off for the land which the Lord had promised to show him. If any of you have only half obeyed, I pray that you may take heed of this, and do all that the Lord commands, carefully endeavouring to keep back no part of the revenue of obedience.
Yet the error of the great patriarch was soon corrected, for we read that "Abraham, when he was called to go out . . . went out." I have only omitted intermediate words, which do not alter the sense: and that is exactly how we should obey. That which the Lord commands we should do—just that, and not another thing of our own devising. How very curiously people try to give God something else instead of what he asks for! The Lord says, "My son, give me thine heart," and they give him ceremonies. He asks of them obedience, and they give him will-worship. He asks faith, and love, and justice; and they offer ten thousand rivers of oil, and the fat of fed beasts. They will give all except the one thing which he will be pleased with: yet "to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." If the Lord has given you true faith in himself, you will be anxious not so much to do a notable thing as to do exactly what God would have you to do. Mind your jots and tittles with the Lord's precepts. Attention to little things is a fine feature in obedience: it lies much more as to its essence in the little things than in the great ones. Few dare rush into great crimes, and yet they will indulge in secret rebellion, for their heart is not right with God. Hence so many mar what they call obedience by forgetting that they serve a heart-searching, rein-trying God, who observes thoughts and motives. He would have us obey him with the heart, and that will lead us, not merely to regard a few pleasing commands, but to have respect unto all his will. Oh, for a tender conscience, which will not wilfully neglect, nor presumptuously transgress!
And next, mark well that Abraham rendered practical obedience. When the Lord commanded Abraham to quit his father's house, he did not say that he would think it over; he did not discuss it pro and con, in an essay; he did not ask his father, Terah, and his neighbour to consider it; but, as he was called to go out, he went out. Alas! dear friends, we have so much talk, and so little obedience! The religion of mere brain and jaw does not amount to much. We want the religion of hands and feet. I remember a place in Yorkshire, years ago, where a good man said to me, "We have a real good minister." I said, "I am glad to hear it." "Yea," he said; "' he is a fellow that preaches with his feet." Well, now, that is a capital thing if a preacher preaches with his feet by walking with God, and with his hands by working for God. He does well who glorifies God by where he goes, and by what he does; he will excel fifty others who only preach religion with their tongues. You, dear hearers, are not good hearers so long as you are only hearers; but when the heart is affected by the ear, and the hand follows the heart, then your faith is proved. That kind of obedience which comes of faith in God is real obedience, since it shows itself by its works.
Next, faith produces a far-seeing obedience. Note this. "'Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance." How great a company would obey God if they were paid for it on the spot! They have "respect unto the recompense of the reward;" but they must have it in the palm of their hand. With them—"A bird in hand is better far, than two which in the bushes are." They are told that there is heaven to be had, and they answer that, if heaven were to be had here, as an immediate freehold, they might look after it, but they cannot afford to wait. To inherit a country after this life is over is too like a fairy tale for their practical minds. Many there are who enquire, "Will religion pay? Is there anything to be made out of it? Shall I have to shut up my shop on Sundays? Must I alter my mode of dealing, and curtail my profits?" When they have totalled up the cost, and have taken all things into consideration, they come to the conclusion that obedience to God is a luxury which they can dispense with, at least until near the end of life. Those who practice the obedience of faith look for the reward hereafter, and set the greatest store by it. To their faith alone the profit is exceeding great. To take up the cross will be to carry a burden, but it will also be to find rest. They know the words, "No cross, no crown;" and they recognise the truth that, if there is no obedience here, there will be no reward hereafter. This needs a faith that has eyes which can see afar off, across the black torrent of death, and within the veil which parts us from the unseen. A man will not obey God unless he has learned to endure "as seeing him who is invisible."
Yet, remember that the obedience which comes of true faith is often bound to be altogether unreckoning and implicit; for it is written, "He went out, not knowing whither he went." God bade Abraham journey, and he moved his camp at once. Into the unknown land he made his way; through fertile regions, or across a wilderness; among friends or through the midst of foes, he pursued his journey. He did not know where his way would take him, but he knew that the Lord had bidden him go. Even bad men will obey God when they think fit; but good men will obey when they know not what to think of it. It is not ours to judge the Lord's command, but to follow it. I am weary with hearing men saying, "Yea, we know that such a course would be right; but then the consequences might be painful: good men would be grieved, the cause would be weakened, and we ourselves should get into a world of trouble, and put our hands into a hornet's nest." There is not much need to preach caution nowadays: those who would run any risk for the truth's sake are few enough. Consciences, tender about the Lord's honour, have not been produced for the last few years in any great number. Prudent consideration of consequences is superabundant; but the spirit which obeys, and dares all things for Christ's sake—where is it? The Abrahams of to-day will not go out from their kindred; they will put up with anything sooner than risk their livelihoods. If they do go out, they must know where they are going, and how much is to be picked up in the new country. I am not pronouncing any judgement upon their conduct, I am merely pointing out the fact. Our Puritan forefathers reeked little of property or liberty when these stood in the way of conscience: they defied exile and danger sooner than give up a grain of truth; but their descendants prefer peace and worldly amusements, and pride themselves on "culture" rather than on heroic faith. The modern believer must have no mysteries, but must have everything planed down to a scientific standard. Abraham "went out, not knowing whither he went," but the moderns must have every information with regard to the way, and then they will not go. If they obey at all, it is because their own superior judgements incline that way; but to go forth, not knowing whither they go, and to go at all hazards, is not to their minds at all. They are so highly "cultured" that they prefer to be original, and map out their own way.
Brethren, having once discerned the voice of God, obey without question. If you have to stand alone and nobody will befriend you, stand alone and God will befriend you. If you should get the ill word of those you value most, bear it. What, after all, are ill words, or good words, as compared with the keeping of a clear conscience by walking in the way of the Lord? The line of truth is narrow as a razor's edge; and he needs to wear the golden sandals of the peace of God who shall keep to such a line. Through divine grace may we, like Abraham, walk with our hand in the hand of the Lord, even where we cannot see our way!
The obedience which faith produces must be continuous. Having commenced the separated life, Abraham continued to dwell in tents, and sojourn in the land which was far from the place of his birth. His whole life may be thus summed up: "By faith Abraham obeyed." He believed, and, therefore, walked before the Lord in a perfect way. He even offered up his son Isaac. "Abraham's mistake," was it? Alas for those who dare to talk in that fashion! "By faith he obeyed," and to the end of his life ho was never an original speculator, or inventor of ways for self-will; but a submissive servant of that great Lord, who deigned to call him "friend." May it be said of everyone here that by faith he obeyed! Do not cultivate doubt, or you will soon cultivate disobedience. Set this up as your standard, and henceforth be this the epitome of your life—"By faith he obeyed."
III. Just a moment or two upon the third point. Let us consider THE SORT OF LIFE WHICH WILL COME OF THIS FAITH AND OBEDIENCE.
It will be, in the first place, life without that great risk which else holds us in peril. A man runs a great risk When he steers himself. Rocks or no rocks, the peril lies in the helmsman. The believer is no longer the helmsman of his own vessel; he has taken a pilot on board. To believe in God, and to do his bidding, is a great escape from the hazards of personal weakness and folly. If we do as God commands, and do not seem to succeed, it is no fault of ours. Failure itself would be success as long as we did not fail to obey. If we passed through life unrecognised, or were only acknowledged by a sneer from the worldly-wise, and if this were regarded as a failure, it could be borne with equanimity as long as we knew that we had kept our faith towards God, and our obedience to him. Providence is God's business, obedience is ours. What comes out of our life's course must remain with the Lord; to obey is our sole concern. What harvest will come of our sowing we must leave with the Lord of the harvest; but we ourselves must look to the basket and the seed, and scatter our handfuls in the furrows without fail. We can win "Well done, good and faithful servant": to be a successful servant is not in our power, and we shall not be held responsible for it. Our greatest risk is over when we obey. God makes faith and obedience the way of safety.
In the next place, we shall enjoy a life free from its heaviest cares. If we were in the midst of the wood, with Stanley, in the centre of Africa, our pressing care would be to find our way out; but when we have nothing to do but to obey, our road is mapped out for us. Jesus says, "Follow me; "and this makes our way plain, and lifts from our shoulders a load of cares. To choose our course by policy is a way of thorns, to obey is as the king's highway. Policy has to tack about, to return upon its own courses, and often to miss the port after all; but faith, like a steam-vessel, steers straight for the harbour's mouth, and leaves a bright track of obedience behind her as she forges ahead. When our only care is to obey, a thousand other cares take their flight. If we sin in order to succeed, we have sown the seeds of care and sorrow, and the reaping will be a grievous one. If we will forsake the path, and try short cuts, we shall have to do a deal of wading through mire and slough, we shall bespatter ourselves from head to foot, we shall be wearied to find our way, and all because we could not trust God, and obey his bidding. Obedience may appear difficult, and it may bring with it sacrifice; but, after all, it is the nearest and the best road. Her ways are, in the long run, ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. He who through the Holy Spirit, is always believingly obedient, has chosen the good part. He it is who can sing—
<center>"I have no cares, O blessed Lord,
For all my cares are thine;
I live in triumph, too, for thou
Hast made thy triumphs mine."</center>
Or, to change the verse, he is like Bunyan's shepherd-boy in the Valley of Humiliation, for that lowland is part of the great Plain of Obedience, and he also can sing—
<center>"He that is down need fear no fall,
He that is low no pride;
He that is humble ever shall
Have God to be his Guide."</center>
 
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Although he may not reach the heights of ambition, nor stand upon the giddy crags of presumption, yet he shall know superior joys. He has hit upon the happiest mode of living under heaven—a mode of life akin to the perfect life above. He shall dwell in God's house and be still praising him.
The way of obedience is a life of the highest honour. Obedience is the glory of a human life—the glory which our Lord has given to his chosen, even his own glory. "He learned obedience." He never struck out an original course, but he did always the things which pleased the Father. Be this our glory. By faith we yield our intelligence to the highest intelligence: we are led, guided, directed; and we follow where our Lord has gone. To us who believe, he is honour. To a soldier it is the greatest honour to have accomplished his sovereign's command. He does not debase his manhood who subjects it to honourable command; nay, he is even exalted by obeying in the day of danger. It is no dishonour to have it said :
<center>"Theirs not to reason why;
Theirs but to dare and die."</center>
The bravest and the most honoured of men are those who implicitly obey the command of the King of kings. Among his children, they are best who best know their Father's mind, and yield to it the gladdest obedience. Should we have any other ambition, within the walls of our Father's house, than to be perfectly obedient children before him, and implicitly trustful towards him?
But, brethren, this is a kind of life which will bring communion with God. God often hides his face behind the clouds of dust which his children make by their self-will. If we transgress against him, we shall soon be in trouble; but a holy walk—the walk described by my text as faith working obedience—is heaven beneath the stars. God comes down to walk with men who obey. If they walk with him, he walks with them. The Lord can only have fellowship with his servants as they obey. Obedience is heaven in us, and it is the preface of our being in heaven. Obedient faith is the way to eternal life—nay, it is eternal life revealing itself.
The obedience of faith creates a form of life which may be safely copied. As parents, we wish so to live that our children may copy us to their lasting profit. Teachers should aspire to be what they would have their classes to be. If you go to school to the obedience of faith, you will be good teachers. Children usually exaggerate their models; but there will be no fear of their going too far in faith, or in obedience to the Lord. I like to hear a man say, when his father has gone, "My dear father was a man that feared God, and I would fain follow him. When I was a boy, I thought him rather stiff and Puritanical; but now I see he had a good reason for it all. I feel much the same myself, and would do nothing of which God would not approve." The bringing up of families is a very great matter. This is too much neglected nowadays; and yet it is the most profitable of all holy service, and the hope of the future. Great men, in the best sense, are bred in holy households. God-fearing example at home is the most fruitful of religious agencies. I knew a little humble Dissenting chapel, of the straitest sect of our religion. Culture there was none in the ministry; but the people were stanch believers. Five or six families, attending that despised ministry, learned to believe what they did believe, and to live upon it. It was by no means a liberal creed which they received, but what they held operated on their lives. Five or six families came out of that place, and became substantial in wealth, and generous in liberality. These all sprang from plain, humble men, who knew their Bibles, and believed the doctrines of grace. They learned to fear God, and to trust in him, and to rest in the old faith, and even in worldly things they prospered. Their descendants, of the third generation, are not all of them of their way of thinking; but they have risen through God's blessing on their grandfathers. These men were fed on substantial meat, and they became sturdy old fellows, able to cope with the world, and fight their way. I would to God that we had more men to-day who would maintain truth at all hazards. Alas! the gutta-percha backbone is common among Dissenters, and they take to politics, and the new philosophy, and therefore we are losing the force of our testimony, and are, I fear, decreasing in numbers too. The Lord give us back those whose examples can be safely copied in all things, even though they be decried as being "rigid" or "too precise"! We serve a jealous God, and a holy Saviour; wherefore let us mind that we do not grieve his Spirit, and cause him to withdraw from us.
Lastly, faith working obedience is a kind of life which needs great grace. Every careless professor will not live in this fashion. It will need watchfulness and prayer, and nearness to God, to maintain the faith which obeys in everything. Beloved, "he giveth more grace." The Lord will enable us to add to our faith all the virtues. Whenever you fail in any respect in your lives, do not sit down, and question the goodness of God, and the power of the Holy Ghost; that is not the way to increase the stream of obedience, but to diminish the source of it. Believe more, instead of less. Try, by God's grace, to believe more in the pardon of sin, more in the renovation by the Holy Spirit, more in the everlasting covenant, more in the love that had no beginning, and will never, never cease. Your hope does not lie in rushing into the darkness of doubt; but in returning repentantly into the still clearer light of a steadier faith. May you be helped to do so, and may we, all of us, and the whole multitude of the Lord's redeemed, by faith go on to obey our Lord in all things!
I leave this word with you. Remember, "By faith Abraham obeyed." Have faith in God, and then obey, obey, obey, and keep on obeying, until the Lord shall call you home. Obey on earth, and then you will have learned to obey in heaven. Obedience is the rehearsal of eternal bliss. Practice by obedience now the song which you will sing for ever in glory. God grant his grace to us! Amen.
 
Yet another similar perspective by John Piper.

John Piper - The Obedience of Faith.
Romans 1:1–5

Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake.

This morning we are going to focus on verse 5, and in particular the three phrases: "grace and apostleship," "obedience of faith," and "for his name's sake." We will try to see the nature of grace as a free and undeserved enabling for ministry, the effect of grace in the obedience of faith, and the ultimate goal of grace in the glorifying of Christ's name among all the peoples.
Grace – at the Heart

Grace is a very precious reality. I hope I can show you from the book of Romans what it is and why it is so precious. The word is used 155 times in the New Testament – over 100 of them in the writings of Paul, and almost a fourth of those in Romans (24 times). You cannot comprehend this book if you don't comprehend grace. We will see it again and again. It is at the heart of the book and the heart of the gospel and the heart of God.

But I don't assume the word communicates now the precious Biblical reality it was meant to. Today, I would guess that the average person would say grace is the beautiful movement of an ice skater. Then they might say grace is a short prayer before meals. And finally, they might say grace is undeserved kindness.

But what is the Biblical reality of grace? Let's look at Romans 1:5 and its connections. Notice that in verse one Paul began to introduce himself and speak of his being a bond-servant of Christ and of his calling as an apostle and his consecration for the gospel of God. Then in verses 2-4, he talks about what the gospel of God is: it's planned long before it happens; it's about God's Son; it's about the fulfillment of Old Testament hopes and the arrival of the Messiah, the Son of David; and it is about the risen Christ who came forth triumphant from the dead as reigning Son of God in power.

With that picture of a great, triumphant, reigning Messiah and Lord before us, Paul can now talk about grace on its proper basis. He says in verse 5, "through whom we have received grace." In other words, God's grace has come to Paul through the Lord Jesus Christ who was born as a son of David and was raised as Son of God in power. We may say from what Paul writes later that grace was obtained for us through the obedience and death of the incarnate Messiah (Romans 3:24-25; 5:18-21); and grace is poured out through the risen and reigning Son of God in power. There is no grace toward sinners apart from the life and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Verse 5 says plainly that God gives grace "through him," referring to "Jesus Christ our Lord" at the end of verse 4.

So grace is a reality that comes from God; and comes through Jesus and his work for us. It is not something we have a right to. Jesus obtained it for us. We get it freely because of the obedience and death of another.
What is Grace?

But what is it? Well, in this verse it is connected with Paul's ministry, his apostleship. "Through [Christ] we have received grace and apostleship." I take this to mean that his calling as an apostle was a gift of grace and that he fulfils that ministry by the power of this grace. So that grace is not just God's clemency toward Paul's sin, but is also a power to enable Paul to do his calling as an apostle.

I base this on what Paul says about the relation between grace and ministry in chapters 12 and 15. For example, in 12:6 Paul says, "We have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us." And in 12:3 he says, "Through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you . . ." In other words, grace is God's enabling for various ministries through gifts he gives, and Paul's gift includes speaking as an apostle. Similarly in 15:15b-16 Paul says, "Grace was given me from God, to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles." So I conclude that when he says in 1:5, "Through whom we have received grace and apostleship," he means that God not only saved him from his sin, but he also gave him grace to be an authoritative spokesman for the risen Son of God in power.
How Do We Get Grace?

And how does that mean he gave it to him? Does it mean that he gave it in response to good works? No. Paul said that he was set apart for the gospel before he was born (Galatians 1:15; Romans 1:1). Grace is not God's response to our deserving or meriting. Grace is God's free gift before we do anything good, and his enabling of us to do anything good. For example, in Romans 4:4 Paul says, "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited according to grace, but according to debt" (my translation). In other words, grace is not what you get when you work for somebody: that's what he owes you. Grace is never owed. It is always a free bonus from the overflow of goodness.

Therefore grace is always received through faith, not earned by works. You can only receive grace as a gift and acknowledge that it comes to you freely; you can't work for it or earn it. Romans 11:6 states the principle: "If it [election] is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Grace would not be grace if you earned it by your works. We receive it through faith. By simply welcoming it as a gift and relying on it.

This is why Romans 4:16 says, "For this reason it [= being an heir of the promise] is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace." This is Paul's way of saying that grace is absolutely free and cannot be deserved or merited. When grace comes to you it is through faith or not at all.

Grace has its own power. You don't work it up. It is, in fact, part of the power referred to in verse 4, where Paul says that Jesus "was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead." Grace is not just forgiveness of our sin and mercy on our misery, it is also a divine power that comes to us through Jesus absolutely freely for the sake of ministry. Paul says in Romans 5:21, "As sin reigned in death, even so grace reigns through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (my translation). Grace is the power of a king: it "reigns" and leads mightily to eternal life through Christ.

So we have seen that grace is a power from God for ministry (like Paul's apostleship). It is free and cannot be earned or deserved. It is received as a gift by faith, not merited by works.
The Effect of Grace

Now ponder the implications of this for a moment – for Paul and for you. I mentioned one of them last week. When Paul calls himself, in verse 1, a "bond-servant of Christ Jesus" and an "apostle," he means that he serves the risen Christ as an apostle. But now, from verse 5, we know something utterly crucial about that service: it is given and enabled by grace. He says in Romans 15:18, "I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me [that's the power of grace], resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles" – which is the same aim as 1:5. Paul serves Christ by the grace with which Christ serves Paul.

I linger over this because if you get it early, the book of Romans will open to you like a flower. And if you don't get it, the book will not make sense. And I linger over it because this is the essence of how God means for you to live your life. God wants you to read verse 5 and in the end put your calling in the place of the word "apostleship." "Apostleship" is Paul's – not mine and not yours. You might put, "Through Christ I have received grace and the teaching role." Or: grace and singing. Or: grace and studentship. Or: grace and singleness. Or: grace and widowhood. Or: grace and motherhood. And what you should mean is: God has freely given me forgiveness and the power to do a calling, and fulfill a role which I accept by faith.

There is not a role in life that can be lived the way God wants it lived apart from enabling grace. Being a godly mother or being an apostle is impossible without the power of grace. So when Paul says, in 1 Corinthians 15:10, that all his apostolic labor is by grace, you insert your own calling: "By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me." The decisive, enabling power for all ministry and all service is God's grace.

Paul is tremendously jealous to exalt grace in his life and in yours. We should join him in this. Why this is becomes clearer as we look at the next two phrases in Romans 1:5.
"The Obedience of Faith"

"Through [the living Son of God risen in power] we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith." So grace is not just received by faith, it aims at faith. God gives gifts of grace so that we will be his instruments in bringing about "the obedience of faith. This is what I called the effect of grace.

Now what does the phrase "obedience of faith" mean? The two main choices are: "the obedience that comes from faith" (NIV), or the obedience which is faith, because faith is what the gospel demands." As you might say: "acts of courage" – acts which come from courage. Or you might say, "Block of wood" – the block is wood. Both of these goals (faith and obedience that comes from faith) are really Paul's goals in ministry. And it is very difficult to decide which he means to focus on right here.

But I am moved by Leon Morris's question: If Paul only means "faith," why use two words to say it (The Epistle to the Romans [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1988], p. 50)? In other words, if Paul only means, "We received grace and apostleship to bring about faith among all the gentiles," then why complicate matters and say, "the obedience of faith"? I think the answer is that he really does want us to think not only of the obedience which faith is, but also the obedience of love which faith produces (1 Timothy 1:5). We will see in chapter six that Paul cares a great deal about Christian obedience. And we will see in Romans 9:32 that obedience is "by faith and not as though it were by works." And we will see in 14:23 that "whatever is not from faith is sin." In other words, in Paul's mind, all true obedience is the fruit of faith.

Now why is this? Why does all true obedience come from faith? I hope you can see the answer if you compare what I have said so far about grace and faith. God gives grace as the power and the enabling for service, which means that grace is the power and enabling of obedience. So all true obedience is done in the power of grace, not our own power.

But how do we receive and rely on grace? The answer is "by faith." So you can see why all true obedience is the fruit of faith. It's the fruit of faith because God's grace is given to enable obedience, and faith is the way we rely on that grace, and so obedience is the fruit of that faith.

So what we have seen so far is that God wants to be the Giver in this relationship. God wants to be gracious. God wants to be the fountain and the source of our service and our obedience and our ministry – whether apostleship, or pastor, or student, or mother, or any other calling. God intends to be the source of enabling, empowering, sustaining grace. Our job is to trust him and act in reliance on him. This is the essence of the Christian life.
Why Is Everything Dependent on Grace, through Faith?

And the final question is, Why? Why does God set it up this way – with everything dependent on his grace through our faith? And the last phrase in Romans 1:5 gives the answer: "Through [Christ] we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles [= peoples] for His name's sake." The ultimate goal of all God's dealings is that his name (or the name of Christ, who is his image) would be known and admired and cherished and praised above all other realities.

Romans 9:17 puts it like this: "For the scripture says to Pharaoh, 'I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.'" God's aim in history and in all that happens is that his name be known and worshipped. Verse 5 says that the aim of Paul's apostleship is "for the sake of the name" – that the name of Jesus (which stands for his character) might be known and loved and treasured and exalted and glorified.

Now this is why God makes all our salvation and all our ministry and all our obedience dependent on his grace and makes all our salvation and ministry and obedience the fruit of faith in grace – because the giver gets the glory. If our ministry and all our obedience is by grace through faith, then God gets the glory and we get the help. If Paul relied on himself to serve as an apostle, and if the effect of his ministry was to bring about the obedience of works, not the obedience of faith among the gentiles, then the name of Christ would not be praised, Paul would be.

The giver of the power, the enabler of the obedience, gets the glory. Here's the way 1 Peter 4:11 puts it: "Whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." You see how clearly Peter makes the connection: God gets the glory for our service if God gives the grace for our service, and if we serve by faith in that grace, in the strength of that grace and not our own.
If God Aims for His Own Exultation, Is He Loving?

The final question that people often ask about this Biblical teaching is whether a God who aims at the exaltation of his own name is a loving God. The book of Romans gives two answers to that question. First, in Romans 10:13 Paul says, "Every one who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved." So yes, it is loving for God to push his own name and his own glory, because everyone who calls on that name will be saved. For him not to spread and exalt his name as our only hope would be unloving of God.

And the second answer is given in Romans 5:2b, where Paul says that while we stand in grace by faith "we exult in hope of the glory of God." In other words, the glory of God is our hope and our salvation and our exultation – our joy. We don't just call on the name of the Lord to get something else. We call on the name of the Lord so that everything that separates us from the Lord will be overcome by the grace of God and we will have access to the Lord himself. "We exult in hope of the glory of God." Therefore it is loving for God to make the name of God – that is, the glory of God – the goal of all his grace, because this is the goal of all our longings.

Is this – is he – the goal of your longings? If so, then the gospel of grace will make sense and you will embrace it. If not, call upon the name of the Lord so that he would open your eyes to see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, the image of God (2 Corinthians 4:4).
 
Now I apologize for those long messages. My hope for posting them is that they might explain in a way that I have been unable to, see how faith and obedience relate to each other.
 
From Wikipedia

Antinomianism in Christianity is the belief that under the gospel dispensation of grace, moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation.[1] Antinomianism and the Protestant doctrine of sola fide (justification through faith alone) are historically related. Commonly seen as the theological opposite to antinomianism is the notion that obedience to a code of religious law earns salvation, such as Legalism or Works righteousness or Judaizing.

The term "antinomianism" emerged soon after the Protestant Reformation (c.1517) and has historically been used mainly as a pejorative against Christian thinkers or sects who carried their belief in justification by faith further than was customary.[2] Examples are Martin Luther's critique of antinomianism and the Antinomian Controversy of the 17th century Massachusetts Bay Colony. Although the term is 16th century, the topic has its roots in Christian views on the old covenant extending back to the 1st century. It can also be extended to any individual who rejects a socially established morality.[3] However, few groups, outside of anarchism such as Christian anarchism or Jewish anarchism, explicitly call themselves "antinomian".

There is much more to the article, it is worth a look.

This will be my final post in this thread. There has been too much bickering and I have been far too much of it.
I ask for forgiveness for those I have offended, and offer my friendship and prayers to all who agree or disagree with my thoughts on this.
There is a time for peace, and I have reached this point. May God bless all those who have been a part of this discussion.
My prayer is that he will reveal the truth of this (whatever that may be) to those who seek him and his will.
 
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Hello B-A-C.

A summary of the posts;

Delivered on Thursday Evening, August 21st, 1890, by
C. H. SPURGEON,

"There is a free-grace road to obedience, and that is receiving, by faith, the Lord Jesus, who is the gift of God,
and is made of God unto us sanctification. We accept the Lord Jesus by faith, and he teaches us obedience,
and creates it in us."


This is what we proclaim B-A-C.
 
From Wikipedia

Antinomianism in Christianity is the belief that under the gospel dispensation of grace, moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation.

Interestingly, God's example of His grace towards the thief on the cross fits the definition of "Antinomianism"

But, as the focus for some is only upon physical lifestyle/behavior, I'll add that the lifestyle/behavior of Christians will reveal extremely varied results.
There are those with death bed salvation, who have absolutely nothing to show in improvement in lifestyle/behavior.
There are others who live for years as Christians showing little to no improvement in lifestyle/behavior.
And then there are others who do show improvements to varying degrees.
None of the above should be seen as proof whether one is saved or not, as scripture confirms.

And when a Christian does do wrong they will not profit by it. God disciplines us.

We are saved by grace alone.
If we start adding works of the law to it then we're doubting God's promise.
 
If you have been reconciled by the blood of Christ, if you are a new creation.
Then you are perfect in God's eyes are you not, this is the powerful spiritual
realization of the Gospel. How could you possibly be found wanting, since
your righteousness is the righteousness of Christ.

Salvation is not performance based James, salvation is a direct result
of the belief in Jesus Christ. Works and behavior are the result of the
reconciliation, they do not initiate the reconciliation.

Salvation from the lake of fire is not performance based, true, and it is a free gift... yet considering ALL of the biblical revelation...God does consider our faithfulness to Him, and we receive reward or loss(2 Cor 5:9-10).. and the Lord said he will judge the servants, slothful and wicked servant or good and faithful servants. This does not mean they were not servants if they are slothful and wicked.. a servant of Christ is a believer in Christ, who has wasted their life. Paul also speaks about this here:
1 Cor 3:15 "If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." He shall suffer loss. He will not receive a high rank in the kingdom of God. He will not get to sit in the most honorable place such as beside Christ at his right or left. But he will still be saved. These high positions are reserved for the most faithful believers. This is what the full revelation of the bible teaches, and I can see now that some are interpreting every verse from the point of view of belief or unbelief, but we have not considered that God also sees our actions and behaviors. To say that God "does not see", is a bit misleading. The only perfect thing in us is Christ, but God also sees the imperfections in ourselves and definitely sees our actions. This is expressed in James which says faith alone does NOT save James 2:4 "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

The importance of our actions as a result of our belief, is explained here:
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it does not prove itself with actions, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone may say, "You have faith, and I have actions." Show me your faith without any actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions.
Jas 2:20 Do you want proof, you foolish person, that faith without actions is worthless?

To say actions do not matter, is not the full revelation of the bible. They matter... and they can matter a lot. Suppose Abraham only believed God , but he did not put his faith into action. His faith would be worthless. Our actions show our faith, so our actions are important. God tests our faith, and proves it by our actions. But not for salvation from the lake of fire.. let me be clear about that. There is no effort or work we can do to save us from hellfire, except belief in Christ alone. This is proved by the thief on the cross. But this does not mean actions are not seen by God, and that it does not matter what our behavior lifestyle is. If we live however we like, we may have to spend eternity in a low position in the kingdom of God, we will not receive the highest and fullest blessings.

We both agree that it's obvious that the physical part of us is imperfect.
We differ in that you label it's failings as "sin", whereas I refer to God's definitions of "sin" and that "sin" does not apply to Christians as that old man is dead, Rom 6:6; Rom 8:9; Gal 2:20

I see now that you like to separate our persons into sinful and non-sinful parts. You seem to be focusing on the sinless part without regard for our sinful part. But it doesn't matter if we sin in the body, in the spirit, or in the soul. WE are the one sinning. A person is a complete person.. spirit, soul and body. If you are eating a carrot, you don't say "my body is eating a carrot". you say "I am eating a carrot". Your spirit, soul and body, cannot be separated just like the Father, Son and Spirit cannot be separated into three gods! We cannot say we are perfect in our spirit and do not sin, and therefore our whole body is perfect and we cannot and do not sin, and actions do not matter. This seems more of a gnostic teaching actually, that only the spiritual seems to matter. If our spirit is perfect and sinless in Christ, our soul and body needs to reflect that. So what is the best way to describe ? Like this: in God's eyes in Christ I am perfect.. but only in Christ.. in myself I am a sinner. We are both perfect (in Christ) and sinners (in our self).. this is true.. we are all imperfect persons who are being transformed into Christ's perfection. If you like to say well because Christ in me is perfect then I am perfect.. then that is not true...this is only part of the truth. The other part of the truth is that we are not perfect in our soul and body, as long as we are in the physical flesh.

To say that we are perfect in Christ, and in God's eyes, is completely true. But God knows we are imperfect in our soul and body.. this is why He gives us the Spirit to transform us daily, so that our soul and body is also brought into perfection. I believe we are perfect in our spirit, in Christ, where He dwells. But this is not the area we need to confess. We need to confess our sins done in the body, in our soul, in our physical body. I think you are failing to see that it is the whole person that matters to God, not just the spirit. God is intending to perfect and glorify our mortal bodies also (transfiguration and glorification)..from imperfection into perfection... If we sin no more after receiving Christ.. then we no longer need to confess anything, and we no longer need a Savior... We cannot separate the spirit, soul and body in this way. Let's say your body sinned.. who sinned? Is your body a different person from your spirit? Are you three different people in one person? No.. if your physical sins.. YOU sin...

Of course we still see Christians doing wrong (erroneously referred to as sin under man’s ambiguous definitions), but as sons of God we are chastised for our wrong.
But, regarding sin/transgression of the law, Satan the accuser cannot charge us with this. God has justified us.

This verse says contrary to your claim, which shows that Christian brethren do and can sin:1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.

Regarding the words 'wrong' and 'sin' having different meanings, please consider:
1 Jn 5:17 says "All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." In KJV: "1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. "
The word for unrighteousness according to Strong's is legal injustice, moral wrongfulness in character, life or act. Doing wrong and sinning is exactly the same thing!

1 Jn1:8 says that if we say we have no sin (as you do), we are deceived, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Further, it says 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

ONLY PAST sin was remitted at the cross (Rom 3:25). And as the scriptures above show, Christians cannot sin in Christ. Our righteousness is by faith instead (Rom 4:5). So once in Christ there is no more "sin". All past sin was remitted and there is no more future charges of sin to be laid against us. Remember Satan the accuser cannot charge us with "sin" (Rom 8:33).
Jesus truly set us free from sin, (John 8:36).

I agree completely that Christians cannot sin "in Christ". So why do Christians sin? Based on 1 Jn 1:9 and the Lord's pattern of prayer for us (the Lord's prayer)..we know that Christians can and DO sin. So why ? Because they are not always "in Christ". Christ is in us, but we must be in Him by setting our mind on the spirit and not the flesh. The mind is like a neutral thing that we can choose to set on flesh or spirit. Rom 8:13 "if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body". Putting to death the deeds of the body is something we must do, through the Spirit. Christ is in your spirit, your spirit will be saved.. but is your mind, thoughts, and living and actions in Christ?


As for 2 Cor 5:10; t speaks of people being judged for doing "good or bad". It's a wrong assumption to see this "good or bad" as referring to physical behavior.

2 Cor 5:10 says "what he has done in his body".. not "what he has believed", or what he has thought..please read the verse again carefully:
2Co 5:10 For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah, so that each of us may receive what he deserves for what he has done in his body, whether good or worthless.


Consider the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". Was he judged by his lifestyle or was he saved by grace?

The thief was definitely saved by grace from eternal hellfire. But 2 Cor 5:10 still stands. The thief on the cross will stand before the judgement of Christ and answer for what he has done in his body..not for salvation, but for reward or loss....there are no exceptions. We cannot expect, that this thief will receive the same high blessings and rewards that are given to the most faithful life-long martyrs of Christ, who will get to sit at His right hand and His left.
 
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Hello puddlegum.

I noticed you quoted the commandment "thou shall not kill".

You have a problem with the letter of the law puddlegum.

Jesus extended this commandment way beyond the letter.


Matthew 5
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,and whoever
murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with
his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his
brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be
in danger of hell fire.

What Jesus states is far beyond the letter of the law puddlegum, you will
have to readdress your understanding of the place of the law.

It must be rewritten, "thou shall not have an ill thought towards anyone".
This is the commandment that God has given us puddlegum.

To quote "thou shall not kill" is just plain misleading, this is not the commandment
Jesus gave. I would request that no further quotations of the letter of the old

Mosaic law be made. Future reference to the commandments will be the revised
law that Jesus gave.

Where does it say that. thou shall not have an ill thought towards anyone. could you have just made that up. and is the wording of the Bible wrong ?
As with the word ill. that's broad definition and does this mean if i was to question the validity of one, would that be wrong.
And the thoughts bit could be disturbing, as i think i could have thoughts of one being not in line with Christ and thinking to my self to be on guard against ones evil intentions.
Better not judge the work of Satan and his followers, should we ?
If we look into how Jesus dealt with Satan, he just cast him away as Jesus knew he was ill. Jesus even used OT verses that dealt with Satan, did he not. now did Jesus have a ill thought of Satan.
I don't think that the OT is a religion that is separated to the NT but to be sure the people who look to just the OT are lost. and the coming of Christ is the way of the Spirit of Israel from the beginning. as anyone who pushes just the OT is not Israel at all, as it can't be, as people who hold on to that apposes the Lord Jesus, do they not dear DHC. so the OT people are clear oppose because of that. but we are the OT and NT not just the NT alone as if we were, we would be something other than the people of God. and we just don't dump the OT as worthless do we dear DHC. The people who follow in Christ are the people of God and that means Israel.
And i have never said the Law will save anyone, but it will not condemn any by abiding best they can with them. i don't see why one would look down on such. and if one does not oppose Grace at all. and i don't see it as a Sin. But i do see that one pushing rejection or opposing of Gods Law as a Sin. or teaching that it is a sin. and i would think that such is another religion entirely and could just be a work of idolatry.
 
This is expressed in James which says faith alone does NOT save James 2:4 "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."
The importance of our actions as a result of our belief, is explained here:
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it does not prove itself with actions, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone may say, "You have faith, and I have actions." Show me your faith without any actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions.
Jas 2:20 Do you want proof, you foolish person, that faith without actions is worthless?

To say actions do not matter, is not the full revelation of the bible. They matter... and they can matter a lot. Suppose Abraham only believed God , but he did not put his faith into action. His faith would be worthless. Our actions show our faith, so our actions are important. God tests our faith, and proves it by our actions.

And what are our works that shows our faith?
John 6:29 tells us our works are to believe in Jesus.
This seems to be very difficult for some as they fail to accept something like believing in Jesus without works of the law being added as proof of salvation.

I see now that you like to separate our persons into sinful and non-sinful parts. You seem to be focusing on the sinless part without regard for our sinful part. But it doesn't matter if we sin in the body, in the spirit, or in the soul. WE are the one sinning. A person is a complete person.. spirit, soul and body. If you are eating a carrot, you don't say "my body is eating a carrot". you say "I am eating a carrot". Your spirit, soul and body, cannot be separated just like the Father, Son and Spirit cannot be separated into three gods! We cannot say we are perfect in our spirit and do not sin, and therefore our whole body is perfect and we cannot and do not sin, and actions do not matter. This seems more of a gnostic teaching actually, that only the spiritual seems to matter. If our spirit is perfect and sinless in Christ, our soul and body needs to reflect that. So what is the best way to describe ? Like this: in God's eyes in Christ I am perfect.. but only in Christ.. in myself I am a sinner. We are both perfect (in Christ) and sinners (in our self).. this is true.. we are all imperfect persons who are being transformed into Christ's perfection. If you like to say well because Christ in me is perfect then I am perfect.. then that is not true...this is only part of the truth. The other part of the truth is that we are not perfect in our soul and body, as long as we are in the physical flesh.

To say that we are perfect in Christ, and in God's eyes, is completely true. But God knows we are imperfect in our soul and body.. this is why He gives us the Spirit to transform us daily, so that our soul and body is also brought into perfection. I believe we are perfect in our spirit, in Christ, where He dwells. But this is not the area we need to confess. We need to confess our sins done in the body, in our soul, in our physical body. I think you are failing to see that it is the whole person that matters to God, not just the spirit. God is intending to perfect and glorify our mortal bodies also (transfiguration and glorification)..from imperfection into perfection... If we sin no more after receiving Christ.. then we no longer need to confess anything, and we no longer need a Savior... We cannot separate the spirit, soul and body in this way. Let's say your body sinned.. who sinned? Is your body a different person from your spirit? Are you three different people in one person? No.. if your physical sins.. YOU sin...

We both agree that our physical side is imperfect.
I think what you might be missing though is that we are to consider it dead, by faith, Rom 8:10.
If it's dead, why do you insist on identifying yourself by this dead thing? You describe it as "YOU sin".
What happens when people do this is that they focus on physical behavior/lifestyle as proof of righteousness. This then is righteousness by works, instead of righteousness by faith.

Are we a new creation in Christ or are we still still holding on to that dead old man and judging whether we're righteous by it's efforts to overcome it's failures/weaknesses?

The flesh does not want to submit to God's righteousness. And there are many scriptures warning against turning back to justification by works. Holding on to that dead old man seeking physical proof of righteousness is exactly what the flesh wants. It does not want to accept that in Christ we are righteous, holy, Rom 11:16, sanctified, Heb 10:10, perfected, Heb 10:14. It just does not want to submit to the righteousness of God.


This verse says contrary to your claim, which shows that Christian brethren do and can sin:1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.

We see in scripture that the term "brother" does not always mean a believer.
One example is 1John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (without Christ/unbelief), we lie, and do not the truth:
This sin of unbelief (john 16:9) is not uncommon amongst churches. Consider how most of the brethren/churches spoken about in Revelations 2&3, are called upon to repent or else.They have fallen from grace and are called upon to repent and turn back to God.

And the sin unto death spoken of in 1John 5:16, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

1 Jn1:8 says that if we say we have no sin (as you do), we are deceived, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Further, it says 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is not referring to Christians.
Your claim that it refers to Christians suggests that God is contradicting Himself with 1John 3:6-9, saying that we cannot sin.

As I said in an earlier post, reading 1john 1 from the beginning we see its evangelical context. It "bears witness", "declares", "eternal life", so that others "may have fellowship....with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ"

It speaks to non-believers within the church. Examples are those who profess to know God but are turning back to works of the law.


I agree completely that Christians cannot sin "in Christ". So why do Christians sin? Based on 1 Jn 1:9 and the Lord's pattern of prayer for us (the Lord's prayer)..we know that Christians can and DO sin. So why ? Because they are not always "in Christ". Christ is in us, but we must be in Him by setting our mind on the spirit and not the flesh. The mind is like a neutral thing that we can choose to set on flesh or spirit. Rom 8:13 "if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body". Putting to death the deeds of the body is something we must do, through the Spirit. Christ is in your spirit, your spirit will be saved.. but is your mind, thoughts, and living and actions in Christ?

Yes, we are to put to death the deeds of the body. But we differ on what this is.
No doubt you see it as wrong behavior.
But I see it as it's desire to establish it's own righteousness. And this is supported by the many warnings in scripture against turning back to justification by works. Most of the churches in Rev 2&3 were turning back to self-righteousness/unbelief.

2 Cor 5:10 says "what he has done in his body".. not "what he has believed", or what he has thought..please read the verse again carefully:
2Co 5:10 For all of us must appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah, so that each of us may receive what he deserves for what he has done in his body, whether good or worthless.

We are in our body's in this physical life. During this period our faith is tested. So whilst we are in this period in this body, we either do good by believing in Jesus or we do bad by turning to justification by works/unbelief.

Your claim that it refers to good or bad behavior/lifestyle is not supported in scripture.


The thief was definitely saved by grace from eternal hellfire. But 2 Cor 5:10 still stands. The thief on the cross will stand before the judgement of Christ and answer for what he has done in his body..not for salvation, but for reward or loss....there are no exceptions. We cannot expect, that this thief will receive the same high blessings and rewards that are given to the most faithful life-long martyrs of Christ, who will get to sit at His right hand and His left.

Scripture confirms scripture. Do you have other scriptures to support your claim that we all receive varying grades of rewards based upon how good a life we live?

It's unfortunate that the life circumstances of the thief on the cross left him in the position of not being able to earn greater rewards through good behavior. And considering everyone's very unique/diverse life circumstances, it seems your doctrine is unfair for those who had a shorter life as a Christian and thus not having the opportunity to earn greater rewards through good behavior.

I ask such questions only to highlight it's error. Please forgive me if it might appear disrespectful.

My own experience in life is the reward of receiving understanding through the Spirit. We can all ask this of God and He will give liberally, James 1:5. I have found this to be a great reward/blessing. No doubt weaker Christians, especially those who are selfish and/or too involved in worldly affairs, miss out on such rewards/blessings.
 
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We are in our body's in this physical life. During this period our faith is tested. So whilst we are in this period in this body, we either do good by believing in Jesus or we do bad by turning to justification by works/unbelief.

Your claim that it refers to good or bad behavior/lifestyle is not supported in scripture.

Oh really?
Heb 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to be generous, for God is pleased with such sacrifices.
Jas 4:17 Therefore, anyone who knows what is right but fails to do it is guilty of sin.
1Pe 3:11 He must turn away from evil and do good. He must seek peace and pursue it.
3Jn 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The person who does what is good is from God. The person who does what is evil has never seen God.
Matt 25:36 "I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'"
Matt 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,

This is not referring to Christians.
Your claim that it refers to Christians suggests that God is contradicting Himself with 1 Jon 3:6-9 saying that we cannot sin.

As I said in an earlier post, reading 1john 1 from the beginning we see its evangelical context. It "bears witness", "declares", "eternal life", so that others " may have fellowship....with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ"

It speaks to non-believers within the church. Examples are those who profess to know God but are turning back to works of the law.

1 John 3:6-9 refers to continual practice of sin. Many bible translations use the term "practice sin"..to differentiate from occasional sin. All Christians can and do commit occasional sin, but they cannot continue to practice sin, because the regenerated spirit within them cannot permit it. It is these occasional sins and the fact that sin still lives in our body of flesh due to the fall..that we must confess and ask God's forgiveness.


"It speaks to non-believers within the church."

But the church of God, the Body of Christ, does not have any unbelievers in it. If a person is an unbeliever, they are not within God's church, they are not within the Body of Christ. So these scriptures must be referring to believers only. A believer who turns back.. is a saved person...I think God may be displeased with them, they may lose rewards or face disciplinary punishment, but they are still saved from the lake of fire. Hebr 4:11 "Therefore, as long as the promise of entering his rest remains valid, let us be afraid! Otherwise, some of you will fail to reach it," Saved from lake of fire... but not necessarily entering into the New Jerusalem. Like it says here:
Reve 22:14 ""Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city."
Unbelievers.. they have their part in the lake of fire, .. but what about those saved believers in Christ who don't make it into the promised land due to unbelief, that is, the New Jerusalem? I believe they are outside the city, and comprise the nations, who walk by the light of the New Jerusalem city on the New Earth:
Reve 21:24 The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

See,, the scripture reveals a much more thorough and less black and white "heaven or hell" scenario, which , I might add.. is present in evangelical protestant doctrine probably as a relic from Roman Catholicism... you know.. the whole "gotta get to heaven" thing.. well, we should not be concerned about getting into heaven, but about getting into the New Jerusalem. The Old Testament is a shadow of the spiritual reality in the New Testament. Now in the Old Testament there were non-Israelites.. (not God's people).. Israelites who were faithful .. and unfaithful and unbelieving Israelites. Unfaithful and unbelieving Israelites got temporal punishment and/or weren't allowed into the promised land... but it doesn't mean they were not God's people.

We both agree that our physical side is imperfect.
I think what you might be missing though is that we are to consider it dead, by faith, Rom 8:10.
If it's dead, why do you insist on identifying yourself by this dead thing? You describe it as "YOU sin".
What happens when people do this is that they focus on physical behavior/lifestyle as proof of righteousness. This then is righteousness by works, instead of righteousness by faith.

Are we a new creation in Christ or are we still still holding on to that dead old man and judging whether we're righteous by it's efforts to overcome it's failures/weaknesses?

The flesh does not want to submit to God's righteousness. And there are many scriptures warning against turning back to justification by works. Holding on to that dead old man seeking physical proof of righteousness is exactly what the flesh wants. It does not want to accept that in Christ we are righteous, holy, Rom 11:16; sanctified, Heb 10:10; perfected, Heb 10:14. It just does not want to submit to the righteousness of God.

Please consider Rom 8:10 again carefully... "But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness". It says the body is dead because of sin. So you still have sin. Even though God has condemned sin in the flesh.. our bodies still must die because we have the sin from the fall in it..God doesn't remove that. This is why even though in Christ you are sinless.. in the flesh you have sin... Unless your whole body, soul and spirit is perfect.. you cannot claim to have no sin. We only obtain this state in the future glorification of our mortal sin-ridden bodies into a spiritual perfect body. This is why in 1 John it says if you have no sin.. you deceive yourself. This is why we must confess our sins.. because we are still in the physical. Whether your soul has a wrong thought, emotion or intent.. or your body has sin .. if it is not you that has the sin.. then who is it? Is it not your soul, is it not your own body? Are you three different people in one person? lol...


We see in scripture that the term "brother" does not always mean a believer.
One example is 1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (without Christ/unbelief), we lie, and do not the truth:
This sin of unbelief (john 16:9) is not uncommon amongst churches. Consider how most of the brethren/churches spoken about in Revelations 2&3, are called upon to repent or else.They have fallen from grace and are called upon to repent and turn back to God.


But 1 John 5:16 is speaking not about the sin of unbelief, but about sins that do not lead to death. Please read the verse carefully. It even says NOT to pray for the sin of unbelief... so if brother does not mean believing brother.. why would it say to pray for an unbelieving person's sins not unto death? The only conclusion is that it is a believing brother who commits a sin (due to stumbling or perhaps minding the flesh), so we pray for them so they can receive life. It cannot refer to an unbeliever nor the sin of unbelief.. because we cannot pray anyone into salvation.. they must believe for themself.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.


Now it is interesting that you mention Revelation. You claim that the problem with most of the churches was the sin of unbelief and turning from grace to works. But have you actually read Revelation? One example is Thyatira:

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet and who teaches and leads my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21 I gave her time to repent, but she refused to repent of her immorality.

Here, Jesus is concerned with their immorality and idolatry. He tells them to repent .. are these not sins?

Revelation is a chapter in which the Lord focuses on the good and bad works of each church. For example, he says Rev 2:19 "“‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first." He lists works first, then love and faith.. so to Christ works is more important. We cannot say that works do not matter to the Lord.


Scripture confirms scripture. Do you have other scriptures to support your claim that we all receive varying grades of rewards based upon how good a life we live?

It's unfortunate that the life circumstances of the thief on the cross left him in the position of not being able to earn greater rewards through good behavior. And considering everyone's very unique/diverse life circumstances, it seems your doctrine is unfair for those who had a shorter life as a Christian and thus not having the opportunity to earn greater rewards through good behavior.

I ask such questions only to highlight it's error. Please forgive me if it might appear disrespectful.

My own experience in life is the reward of receiving understanding through the Spirit. We can all ask this of God and He will give liberally, James 1:5. I have found this to be a great reward/blessing. No doubt weaker Christians, especially those who are selfish and/or too involved in worldly affairs, miss out on such rewards/blessings.

It is also unfair/unfortunate that many have no opportunity to be saved, I consider that far more unfair/unfortunate than the thief possibly losing rewards. Rewards should be the motivation for a Christian. It was Paul's motivation (1 Cor 9:24-25)..and he is not pressing onwards to win salvation for himself.. no he already has that... salvation is a free gift, but there are rewards given for faithfulness or loss of rewards/punishments for unfaithfulness. See... a doctrine that focuses on salvation from the lake of fire only.. gives no incentive or motivation for people to live a life pleasing to Christ.. they will be disappointed when they find out that Christ will judge their life at the believer's judgement (evaluation) and they receive no reward like the one who buried the talent..

Verse are many, some are Rom. 14:10-11; 1 Cor. 3:11-15; 2 Cor. 5:9-10; 1 John 2:28; Rev. 3:11-12. Luke 14:12-14.. the Lord repays/rewards those who consider the poor.

Rev 22:12 ""Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done."

Then we have Jesus talking about the faithful and unfaithful servants.. faithful get rewarded, unfaithful get punished... the parable of the talents.. the faithful servant gets to rule over many cities.. The doctrine of the believer's judgement and rewards is throughout the gospels and the epistles.
 
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The gospel is not justification verses sanctification as it appears in this thread, they worked together to brings us into the fullness of Christ. Both are a gift of God, both are needed, both are recieved through faith! Unless this is seen the arguing will continue.
 
The Gospel as delivered to us by the apostles.

This is the vital and primary doctrine of the New and Old Testament.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:17-18
For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes
in Him
is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged
already, because he has not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not
obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes
in Me will live even if he dies,and everyone who lives and believes
in Me will never die.

John 17:3
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 20:31
but these have been written so that you may believe that
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you
may have life in His name.

Romans 3:24
Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which
is in Christ Jesus;

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through
our Lord Jesus Christ


Romans 5:11
And not only this, but we also exult in God through our
Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received
the reconciliation.


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life
in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from
the law of sin and of death.


Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in
your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.



Galatians 1:3-5
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this
present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.


Galatians 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 4:4-5
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son,
born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem
those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption
as sons. (Jewish Gospel)


1 Corinthians 2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ,
and Him crucified.


1 Corinthians 15:3-8
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according
to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren
at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to
all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.



1 Timothy 1:15
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that
Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom
I am foremost of all.


2 Timothy 1:10
But now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,
who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through
the gospel.


1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ,


1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received,
that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that
He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according
to the Scriptures...


Titus 2:11-14

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires
and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory
of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify
for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.



Titus 2:13-14

Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for
His own possession, zealous for good deeds.



Titus 3:5-7
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy,
by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through
Jesus Christ our Savior,
so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


 
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Oh really?
Heb 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to be generous, for God is pleased with such sacrifices.
Jas 4:17 Therefore, anyone who knows what is right but fails to do it is guilty of sin.
1Pe 3:11 He must turn away from evil and do good. He must seek peace and pursue it.
3Jn 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The person who does what is good is from God. The person who does what is evil has never seen God.
Matt 25:36 "I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'"
Matt 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,.

Whilst I agree with Christians doing good, which is often the case as we grow, I disagree with your understanding of the scriptures you quote.

Taking some of your scripture quotes as examples, I'll explain them below.
Jas 4:17 Therefore, anyone who knows what is right but fails to do it is guilty of sin.
Consider the context of the whole chapter.
It addresses spiritual adulterers.
James 4:4
"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Clearly speaking those who are in unbelief. This is also confirmed by the verses below.

James 4:7,8
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Here's a salvation call to these non-believers/spiritual adulterers.

James 4:12
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

This confirms the scriptures above that these are spiritual adulterers, who by their works of the law show themselves to be in unbelief.

So what is the "good" James 4:17 speaking of?
The context of James 4 shows that it's believing in Jesus,

And as for Matt 25:36.37

I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You astranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You ?

This speaks of believing in Jesus. It's speaks of preaching the gospel of grace to the lost.
The lost are:
"naked", without God's covering

"sick", spiritually sick. Isa 53:5 "by His stripes we are healed."

"in prison", to the flesh. 1 Pet 3:19 "he went and preached unto the spirits in prison".
Isa 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

"a stranger" from God/not in communion with Him. Eph 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

"hungry", without Christ, the spiritual food. 1 Cor 10:4
"thirsty" without Christ, the spiritual drink. 1 Cor 10:4
1 Cor 10:3, 4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

I'll have to reply in parts to your post as I'm short of time. I'll get back to with more later in the day.
 
I don't think that the OT is a religion that is separated to the NT but to be sure the people who look to just the OT are lost. and the coming of Christ is the way of the Spirit of Israel from the beginning. as anyone who pushes just the OT is not Israel at all, as it can't be, as people who hold on to that apposes the Lord Jesus, do they not dear DHC. so the OT people are clear oppose because of that. but we are the OT and NT not just the NT alone as if we were, we would be something other than the people of God. and we just don't dump the OT as worthless do we dear DHC. .

Hello puddlegum.

We will never discard the OT, but we will understand it puddlegum.

The law and the prophets is essential to understand the need for and the identity
of the messiah. It is in the astounding fulfillment of both the law and the prophets
that the identity of the messiah is revealed.

Matthew's Gospel although written by a Jew to a Jewish audience, pronounces this
fulfillment by the messiah. Each of the following verses is a "fulfillment" of prophecy.

Matthew 1:22 ...So all this was done that it might be fulfilled
Matthew 2:15 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the
Matthew 2:17 ...Then was
fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah

Matthew 2:23 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by
Matthew 4:14 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah
Matthew 5:18 ...means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Matthew 8:17 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah
Matthew 12:17 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah
Matthew 13:14 ...And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled,
Matthew 13:35 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet,”
Matthew 21:4 ...All this was done that it might be fulfilled
Matthew 26:54 ...How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled
Matthew 26:56 ...that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.
Matthew 27:9 ...Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet
Matthew 27:35 ...that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.

So we discover that the verse;


Matthew 5
17 Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but
to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass
from the Law until all is accomplished.


This verse has been fulfilled, accomplished, therefore the Law of Moses has passed, become obsolete.

Matthew Gospel is all about fulfillment puddlegum!
 
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