The Positional Platform

[DHC]

The law doesn't fix sin, it reveals sin.
Rom 3:20; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

In fact, there is no other way sin is revealed. While we might not have had the written law, we are still subjected to it.

Rom 2:12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God's written law. And the Jews, who do have God's law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13 For merely listening to the law doesn't make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in His sight.
Rom 2:14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know His law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

Mat 5:17; "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
Mat 5:18; I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

The pharisees believed Gentiles were subject to the law.
Acts 15:5 But then some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and insisted, "The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses."

Paul says Gentiles following the law, will be accepted by God. Jews that don't follow the law will be rejected by God.

Rom 2:25; The Jewish ceremony of circumcision has value only if you obey God's law. But if you don't obey God's law, you are no better off than an uncircumcised Gentile.
Rom 2:26; And if the Gentiles obey God's law, won't God declare them to be His own people?

The law reveals sin to the entire world, not just the Jews.

Rom 3:19; Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God.

If you have heard the law, it applies to you.

Rom 5:13; Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break.

Without the law, there is no sin. If Gentiles aren't under the law, we don't need Jesus, because we can't sin.

Rom 2:27; In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it.

Sin is still sin, even under the new covenant.

Gal 3:17; This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking His promise.

The part that changed was how sin is forgiven and reconciled.

Hello B-A-C, thank you for the reply.

I read your post #59 and noticed a number of erroneous statements.

Here is the first statement you made.

"In fact, there is no other way sin is revealed. While we might not have had the written law, we are still subjected to it."

Sin can and has been revealed in ways other than just the knowledge of the law of Moses.
Have a read of the verse below.

Isaiah 6
5 Then I said, Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

A revelation from God will reveal the sinful condition. So your statement
that "there is no other way sin is revealed". Is wholly incorrect and not Biblical.

Also B-A-C, the law applies to those to whom it is given. If you are not a citizen of Israel
then the law of Moses does not apply to you.

I was rather amazed at the next statement of yours.

"The pharisees believed Gentiles were subject to the law.
Acts 15:5 But then some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and insisted, The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses."

If you read a bit further on in the book of Acts. Both Peter and James refute the idea that the Gentiles should be 'under the law'.

Acts 15
10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke(law) which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

B-A-C according to the verse above you are putting God to the test. Gentiles must never be placed under the law of Moses!

Regardless of any law or transgression all will die B-A-C.

Romans 5
18 So then as through one transgression (sin) there resulted condemnation to all men

Death was introduced to humanity by Adam, through the one transgression.
By the one sin death was experienced by all. To be more accurate in the portrayal
of the scripture in respect of sin.

20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase;

Law actually increases sin, law does not reduce sin B-A-C. I would not
construct a theology on the second chapter of Romans in respect of the law.

Yet again B-A-C you are making statements that are not supported by the scripture.
You then said.

"If you have heard the law, it applies to you."

Where did you get this idea from B-A-C? The law of Moses was given
to the nation of Israel. The book of Exodus rigidly enforces this truth.
A Gentile may hear or read a law listed in the law of Moses. But this does
not mean they are under the jurisdiction of that law. Only those who signed
up to the covenant are bound by the law of Moses.

If you follow your argument that a hearer of the law is under the law.
Then naturaly if one read the whole law then one is under the whole law.
All 600 or more laws apply to the one who has read the law of Moses?
This is absurd and ridiculous B-A-C. Not even Paul himself was under the
law.

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law,
as under the Law though not being myself under the Law

There you have it B-A-C, Paul knew the law verbatim. But Paul declared he was not under the law!

The Mosaic Law does not grant salvation B-A-C. Written law is useless
in dealing with sin. Law does bring a knowledge of sin but only to those
who have received the revelation from God in regards to sin. You can listen
to the law all day long without ever recognising that you are a sinner.

Now for your statement that does highlight your confused theology.

Without the law, there is no sin. If Gentiles aren't under the law, we don't need Jesus, because we can't sin.

Romans 2
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law

You might read that line again.

Sinned without the law!

Gentiles sinned deeply without any law and so did the Jews who had the law.

Now for the refutation of your ridiculous statement B-A-C.

"If Gentiles aren't under the law, we don't need Jesus"

Using the logic you have employed then the entire nation of Israel
will accept Jesus. For the nation of Israel received the law, hence they
know sin, thus they will recognize and submit to Jesus??

The opposite is true, the Gentiles who did not have the law accepted
the Gospel. The Jews who had the law rejected the Gospel. Fact!

 

[will]

What exactly is the difference between faith and trust?

To me, faith is something we have. As in: I have faith in God.
Trusting God is something we do. As in: I decided to trust God on this particular matter.
What's the connection between the two?
Without having any faith, we won't trust anyone.
But faith without trusting is just empty talk.
The more we trust God, and see how He is faithful to His promises, the bigger our faith in Him will become.

What's the difference between a "sinful behavior" and sin?

Sinful behaviors (lying, cheating, murder, etc.) are symptoms of the sinful nature we inherit from Adam.
That is why I keep focusing on the source, which is our sinful-nature (what we have), and reliance on self (what we do because of sinful-nature).
Let me use our health to illustrate this: Coughing, is a symptom of something wrong within our body, we can stop the coughing with cough-suppressant medicines, but if we do not treat the source, what will happen to us?

The same thing with sin. If we only focus on the sinful-behaviors, but we do not address the real source of those behaviors, we are only treating the symptoms, not the disease.

See my question above about the difference between faith and trust. To me, if I have faith in myself (or anything besides God, money, a friend, the lottery, my favorite team, whatever..) I am not trusting him.
If I'm not trusting him, I don't have faith in him. I see no difference between faith and trust.

Rom 4:20; yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,
Heb 11:6; And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

I think we are in agreement.
The only difference is my emphasis on dealing with the source of the sinful behaviors.

And how would you answer this? The scriptures contain laws and commandments.

Originally Posted by B-A-C
If selfishness (loving myself) is the opposite of loving God and my neighbor. Wouldn't that be the same as following the two greatest commandments?
I do not follow your reasoning here. Can you ask it again in a different way?

What started this thread was that NetChap said Gentiles were never under the law. So I asked, if that's true, then what defines sin. (I asked him several times) his answer, was simply missing the mark.
I asked him for an example of missing the mark. So far he hasn't given me one (nearly a month has gone by). Fortunately you gave an example ( I assume in his stead ) what I was doing was tying your example back to the scriptures and the commandments. Your example said being selfish. What is selfishness? Loving yourself more than others. What were the two commandments Jesus and Paul gave?
Love God and love your neighbor/brother as yourself. As yourself means as much as yourself (or possibly more than yourself) so if selfishness is a sin, is it because it's breaking these commandments?
(That we Gentiles supposedly aren't under in the first place).

I did not say anything in NetChaplain's stead.
I answer your question because 1) I regard you as a brother in Christ and we must sharpen each other as iron sharpens iron,
and 2) those are good questions.

In my example, I mention self-reliance as the source of sinful behaviors.
Being selfish is just *one example* of sinful behaviors.
If you read the first chapters of 2nd Corinthians, you will see that the Mosaic law is referred to as "ministry of death"
Why? is it because it's bad? no, but the purpose of the law is to set the boundary, in itself, it does not prescribe the solution.

What is the solution? The sacrifice of Lord Jesus on the cross.
This solution enables us to be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, who is the agent whose work will slowly counter the sinful behaviors.
But what must happen first? We have to acknowledge the Holy Spirit and submit to Him.
By doing this, we replace self-reliance with faith in God.

If we don't do this first, and only focus on not breaking the law, we will fight a losing battle in the long run, because we are fighting the symptoms only, not the disease.

And this applies to both Gentiles and Jews *today*.

 

[B-A-C]

The same thing with sin. If we only focus on the sinful-behaviors, but we do not address the real source of those behaviors, we are only treating the symptoms, not the disease.

Agreed, but even in your example, the symptoms will return again next flu season. It isn't a one time fixes everything solution. Yes, we are saved. But we are still subject to sin.

 

[B-A-C]

If you read the first chapters of 2nd Corinthians, you will see that the Mosaic law is referred to as "ministry of death"

2 Cor 3:7; But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
2 Cor 4:11; For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

Great verses, thanks for reminding me.
The Evangelical and Pentecostal churches I have attended view the law in three parts.

The first part defines what sin is.
Thou shalt not... etc... kill, steal, lie, adultery, etc...
The second part defines the penalty for breaking these laws.
Stoning, excommunicated from the congregation, death, hell, etc...
The third part of the law defines what to do if you do sin.
Confess to a priest, sacrifice an animal, make restitution to the person you stole from seven-fold, etc...

The first and second parts of the law remain. Murder, stealing, lying, adultery, etc.. are all still sin. Some of the penalties have changed, we no longer stone people, however the ultimate penalty for sin is death and hell,
that part hasn't changed either. So in Romans when it talks about the "works of the law" it isn't talking about these first two things.

We still sin, the penalty is still death, but the way to forgiveness, atonement and forgiveness of sins has changed.. well .. it's sort of the same.
We still have a priest to confess to. There is still a sacrifice that had to take place for your sins. The difference is, all we have to do is believe in Jesus. Confess to him. Repent.
No more animal sacrifices, no more earthly priests, no more stoning, no more total obedience to the law (there is grace now), no more relying totally upon our own strength and will power
to keep from sinning (Jesus sent us a helper). So that's the part of the law that leads to death. It's this third part that people stumble over. Many people lump all of the law all into one pile,
but it helps to think that the forgiveness and payment for our sins is really the part that changed.

Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[will]

Agreed, but even in your example, the symptoms will return again next flu season. It isn't a one time fixes everything solution. Yes, we are saved. But we are still subject to sin.

We have God's own Holy Spirit within us.
That makes all the difference in the universe.
For if God's own Spirit cannot conquer our sins, what other hopes do we have?

Galatians 5:16-18 could not be more clear:
"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateveryou want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

I believe this literally. Being led by the Holy Spirit is not a warm-fuzzy, feel-good cliche. It is real for those who are willing to consume the Scriptures.
Because the existence of the Scriptures in our self, is the substance in which we grow Spiritually on.

 

[B-A-C]

We have God's own Holy Spirit within us.
That makes all the difference in the universe.
For if God's own Spirit cannot conquer our sins, what other hopes do we have?

Galatians 5:16-18 could not be more clear:
"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Well, first the Holy Spirit is our helper, not our forcer.
John 14:16; "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 15:26; "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

The Holy Spirit is a gentleman who doesn't force anyone. He can be resisted and grieved.
Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

I agree with Gal 5:16, but do any of us walk by the spirit 100% of the time? Did Peter walk by the Spirit when he avoided eating with Gentiles?
Did Paul walk by the Paul when he said "I do the things I know I shouldn't do".

 

[james1523]

We have God's own Holy Spirit within us.
That makes all the difference in the universe.
For if God's own Spirit cannot conquer our sins, what other hopes do we have?

Galatians 5:16-18 could not be more clear:
"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateveryou want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

I believe this literally. Being led by the Holy Spirit is not a warm-fuzzy, feel-good cliche. It is real for those who are willing to consume the Scriptures.
Because the existence of the Scriptures in our self, is the substance in which we grow Spiritually on.

I think you know this but I just wanted to expand and clarify on your point about the Holy Spirit conquering sin, not to correct you or anyone but to emphasize a point. The Holy Spirit's job is not really to conquer and defeat sin in us but to impart life to our being. He is called the life-giving Spirit not the sin-conquering Spirit. The cause or enabler of sin is the independent soul, or the self. The cure is the denial of self and the cross, not the power of the Holy Spirit. To defeat sin in the flesh Jesus had to die, there was no other way. Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground... Many gifted preachers or persons with the power of the Holy Spirit can have sin in their life or fall into gross sin, there are many cases. To walk in the spirit means to deny your independent soul, your self, and live according to your spirit man, which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and we must make the effort to deny our self and take up our cross daily which is our choice. The Holy Spirit is certainly in our spirit but it is men who defeat sin and satan. The lesson for us with Jesus defeating satan's temptation in the wilderness is that through Christ, man has the power over sin. Jesus did not rely on the Holy Spirit to defeat satan. He relied upon self-denial and the Word of God. Pentecostals may not like to hear this, but if Jesus had invoked the power of the Spirit and His authority as the Son of God (as satan tempted him to), then satan would have won the victory. Why? Because Christ intended to recover man's sin and satan defeating ability that he had before the fall. God gave the ability to man to crush the serpent underfoot, whether it is sin in our being or satan outside of us. Man lost this ability in the fall, but through Christ who defeated satan as a man, we too have been enabled to defeat sin and satan through Him. I know that some pentecostals think we need more Holy Spirit or more power of the Holy Spirit to defeat sin but this is not true. What is needed is more self-denial and more cross. To use a medical analogy, which is inadequate but I'll try - self denial and the cross will remove the thorn and then the resurrection life given by the Holy Spirit will heal and seal the wound.

 

[will]

Well, first the Holy Spirit is our helper, not our forcer.

Couldn't agree more. If I sounded like I imply otherwise, that's because of my poor communications.
In fact, He is our Teacher, Guide, and Comforter. When we submit to Christ's Lordship, we will bear the fruit of *His Spirit* not our own.

The Holy Spirit is a gentleman who doesn't force anyone. He can be resisted and grieved.
Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Again, fully agreed.
That is what makes God so awesome in my view.
He empowers, He encourages, He convicts, but He never forces.
If we resist the Holy Spirit, that's because we keep deciding against submitting to Him.
Once we "get it" we'll realize how good it is to trust in Him.

I agree with Gal 5:16, but do any of us walk by the spirit 100% of the time? Did Peter walk by the Spirit when he avoided eating with Gentiles?
Did Paul walk by the Paul when he said "I do the things I know I shouldn't do".

Firstly, Our Lord did walk with the Holy Spirit 100% up to the point he bore the sins of the world on His body.
That's why He said, "Follow me", not "Follow my followers."

Secondly, Growth.
As a baby (teknos) Christian, we don't walk with the Holy Spirit, we hardly even know who God is, let alone trusting Him.
As our faith grows, we start to listen to the Holy Spirit more and more, until we are mature (teleios).
I am not Peter, so I don't know whether he was walking with the Spirit when refused to eat with the Gentiles, but I know that he was crucified upside down at the end of his life of proclaiming his beloved Master. I believe that the Apostle Peter was mature in the Spirit at that point in his life. Again, the pattern of growth.

If we take the concept of *growth* out of the Scriptures, we end up with this notion that Christians are either condemned to a life of sinning and have no way out, or Christians are supposed to attain "Instant Holiness" which we know for a fact is not true. Delusional, maybe, but not true.

 

[will]

I think you know this but I just wanted to expand and clarify on your point about the Holy Spirit conquering sin, not to correct you or anyone but to emphasize a point. The Holy Spirit's job is not really to conquer and defeat sin in us but to impart life to our being. He is called the life-giving Spirit not the sin-conquering Spirit. The cause or enabler of sin is the independent soul, or the self. The cure is the denial of self and the cross, not the power of the Holy Spirit. To defeat sin in the flesh Jesus had to die, there was no other way. Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground... Many gifted preachers or persons with the power of the Holy Spirit can have sin in their life or fall into gross sin, there are many cases. To walk in the spirit means to deny your independent soul, your self, and live according to your spirit man, which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and we must make the effort to deny our self and take up our cross daily which is our choice. The Holy Spirit is certainly in our spirit but it is men who defeat sin and satan. The lesson for us with Jesus defeating satan's temptation in the wilderness is that through Christ, man has the power over sin. Jesus did not rely on the Holy Spirit to defeat satan. He relied upon self-denial and the Word of God. Pentecostals may not like to hear this, but if Jesus had invoked the power of the Spirit and His authority as the Son of God (as satan tempted him to), then satan would have won the victory. Why? Because Christ intended to recover man's sin and satan defeating ability that he had before the fall. God gave the ability to man to crush the serpent underfoot, whether it is sin in our being or satan outside of us. Man lost this ability in the fall, but through Christ who defeated satan as a man, we too have been enabled to defeat sin and satan through Him. I know that some pentecostals think we need more Holy Spirit or more power of the Holy Spirit to defeat sin but this is not true. What is needed is more self-denial and more cross. To use a medical analogy, which is inadequate but I'll try - self denial and the cross will remove the thorn and then the resurrection life given by the Holy Spirit will heal and seal the wound.

Brother James, I agree with almost everything you said above.
Except the bolded statement.
The Lord grow, walk and be filled by the Holy Spirit.

Let me quote the whole passage when The Lord was tempted by the enemy:

1Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And He ate nothing during those days, and when they had ended, He became hungry.3And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”4And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.’”

5And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.6And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.7“Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.”8Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’”

9And he led Him to Jerusalem and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here;

10for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU TO GUARD YOU,’ 11and,
‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”

12And Jesus answered and said to him, “It is said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”

13When the devil had finished every temptation, he left Him until an opportune time.
14And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district.15And He began teaching in their synagogues and was praised by all.



Did you see that the Holy Spirit was with Him all the time?
This is a powerful model for us, the key to our power to overcome the world is The Lord's presence ("I'll be with ye always") through the same Agent who give The Lord power, God The Holy Spirit.

Yes, we deny our "self" but that's half the battle, the other half is to submit to the One who will grow us using the Scriptures (God's revelations).

 

[spirit1st]

The Holy Ghost is GOD POWER . It the power that Created all that was ever Created.
But it the Blood of JESUS ,that washes our sins away. Only though His blood do any of us get the Victory and Eternal life.

The Power works by the name of JESUS CHRIST . But in God will .

The Holy Ghost is our teacher and guide and comforter and dwells in all who are born of God . Having the new birth .

The Holy Ghost reveals all things to us we need to know and we are able to accept as Truth and after we are able to live it ? He will reveal more.

We just ask in faith .

 

[james1523]

Brother James, I agree with almost everything you said above.
Except the bolded statement.
The Lord grow, walk and be filled by the Holy Spirit.

Let me quote the whole passage when The Lord was tempted by the enemy:

1Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And He ate nothing during those days, and when they had ended, He became hungry.3And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”4And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE.’”

5And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.6And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.7“Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.”8Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD AND SERVE HIM ONLY.’”

9And he led Him to Jerusalem and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here;

10for it is written,
‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU TO GUARD YOU,’ 11and,
‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’”

12And Jesus answered and said to him, “It is said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”

13When the devil had finished every temptation, he left Him until an opportune time.
14And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district.15And He began teaching in their synagogues and was praised by all.



Did you see that the Holy Spirit was with Him all the time?
This is a powerful model for us, the key to our power to overcome the world is The Lord's presence ("I'll be with ye always") through the same Agent who give The Lord power, God The Holy Spirit.

Yes, we deny our "self" but that's half the battle, the other half is to submit to the One who will grow us using the Scriptures (God's revelations).

Good points brother I don't disagree. I agree that Jesus was filled with the Spirit, who no doubt sustained Him, Jesus was not all alone. My thinking was that Jesus did not use the power of the Spirit to defeat satan, or work a miracle, neither did Jesus appeal to His authority as the Son of God who could call upon many angels any moment, or cause the devil to flee by using His miraculous power, but He resisted the devil by the Word of God. Neither did angel's help Him during that time. We note that angels came and ministered to him only after the devil left (Matt 4:11).

 

[B-A-C]

The Holy Ghost is GOD POWER . It the power that Created all that was ever Created.
But it the Blood of JESUS ,that washes our sins away. Only though His blood do any of us get the Victory and Eternal life.

The Power works by the name of JESUS CHRIST . But in God will .

Please forgive for saying so, but many of your posts sound much like platitudes.
First The Holy Spirit is a distinct being with his own personality. He isn't merely the force of God or Jesus.
Second, I see many verses that say God/Jesus created the Earth and Universe, but none that say the Holy Spirit did. Of course I believe in the trinity and the three in one.
But each one has a unique and individual role.

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (who is this verse speaking of?)
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. (how about this verse?)

 

[james1523]

Please forgive for saying so, but many of your posts sound much like platitudes.
First The Holy Spirit is a distinct being with his own personality. He isn't merely the force of God or Jesus.
Second, I see many verses that say God/Jesus created the Earth and Universe, but none that say the Holy Spirit did. Of course I believe in the trinity and the three in one.
But each one has a unique and individual role.

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. (who is this verse speaking of?)
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. (how about this verse?)

Not involved in creation?: Genesis 1:2 "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"

"He isn't merely the force of God or Jesus."

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, so essentially the Spirit is Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus (He overshadowed Mary) and also the Spirit of Jesus. Try figuring that one out hehe.
The three are inseparable, wherever the Spirit is, the Father and Son are there also, and wherever the Son is, the Father and Spirit are there also, etc.
But I consider the Holy Spirit to be more "God" in essence than the Father or the Son, simply because the Holy Spirit is Spirit and God is Spirit. That is, it is easier for me to understand that the Holy Spirit is a person and God, than the Father or the Son (how can a human being be considered God?).
I always think of this analogy: the Father is the power source, the Son is the power line , and the Spirit is the electricity. Power is not just something the Spirit has, but something He is.

 

[spirit1st]

The Holy Ghost is GOD POWER.

Zec_4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Mar_12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Rom_15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;

1Co_2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Luk_24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Act_10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.



Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Luk_11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

No greater gift could GOD give His children ,but His own Power , the Holy Ghost .

1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Joh_16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus had the authority to send the HOLY GHOST to whomever He wanted too.

GOD had given the LORD JESUS the authority over everything 100% .

We raise the dead ,heal the sick ,cast our devils and much more .though the Power of GOD HOLY SPIRIT and in the Name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST .

GOD thinks it , the Word [Jesus Christ] speaks it and the Power [Holy Ghost ] does it . All part of one perfect being who is Creator .

Before coming into the flesh as Jesus . Jesus was the Word of God . In the Flesh ? Jesus Christ was the Son of God . But In His Spirit ? He was still God living word.

It was Jesus [The word] that moses and all those who came our of Egypt followed . As a cloud during the day and a pillar of fire at night.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

It does not say JESUS , because He was Not Jesus in the flesh yet. But He was God living word then .

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Lots cannot see they are All part of the same being. like we too are three parts but only One being.

Lots of stuff is Very hard for our little minds to see that why it Spiritually discerned . Revealed by the HOLY GHOST to us.

 

[B-A-C]

The Holy Ghost is GOD POWER

Yes but the Holy Spirit is a distinct personality that can be grieved.
Eph 4:30; And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."