Word of Faith.....Again

[RJ]

To those who seem to constantly use " we were given a measure of Faith" as a solid answer

It is solid, it is God's word!

THE FAITH OF GOD comes with being born again.

Yes, he doesn't give a measure of faith to non-believers

Every beleiver Has The Saame Measure Of Faith.

Do you have scripture support for this? I would rather think that verse 3 means we get a different measure of faith: Roman 12: 3-8.

 

[amadeus2]

Well the day the Holy Spirit does not want you to study Gods Written Word to gain spiritual growth and strength - well sir - we must already be home'

Hmmm! Reading your written words, I have to smile for I understand your meaning, but you still failed to understand mine.

Then on the other hand sir, I don't ever get into Gods word with out allowing the leading of the Holy Spirit. I mean I open the book to learn and grow - why would I do things in any other way other then be willing to be willing to be lead?

A very good method. If continued will you not then working as the Baptist stated it?

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[Dovegiven]

That measure of faith must be developed and perfected. Like everything else of God - it starts with a seed and must grow and be nourished or watered and fed by the written word of God and then put forth into being or action.

Hope is the other glove of two, complimenting faith. Hope and faith are two different words from two distinct Greek words. Consider doing a word search for "hope". I'll provide some comment on hope tomorrow if you don't beat me to it.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Hmmm! Reading your written words, I have to smile for I understand your meaning, but you still failed to understand mine.



A very good method. If continued will you not then working as the Baptist stated it?

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

Amen Sir for is this not the whole idea here ?!!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

It is solid, it is God's word!

Yes, he doesn't give a measure of faith to non-believers

Do you have scripture support for this? I would rather think that verse 3 means we get a different measure of faith: Roman 12: 3-8.

Why in the world would there be different measures of faith given ?

 

[Brighthouse]

I was hoping someone would touch on this meaningful point!! Why would there be any different measures of faith!!! Very good Wired! Here to me is where believers, well some believers do not seem to understand. Jesus would NEVER have different measures for people,because if he would have he would go against his own Word.( Rom 2:11) (Acts 10:34) Faith is given by God ( Eph 2:8-10) Nothing any of us can do about this!! hehe BUT!!!!!! Believing in what Jesus has already done does matter, and can be different!!!( John 6:28-29)

Because believing in what Jesus has already done is NOT up to him, but up to us! Our only work! Rom 10:9-10 example of the difference.( James 2:19-26) Verse 26! No one can change what Jesus has done,it is true whether we believe or do not believe,but if we believe, then there is a work behind what we believe,and that is what faith does! verse 22!! Abraham was not called a friend of God because he said he believed,he was called a friend of God because be acted upon his belief! verse 23 and verse 24! hope this helps!!

 

[RJ]

Why in the world would there be different measures of faith given ?

I am not in the habit of questioning scripture; would you, again, be so kind to offer scripture to support your understanding, I have already offered one for mine. Blessings!

 

[RJ]

.( Rom 2:11)

God ,of course, has unconditional , perfect love for all sinners, in this he is perfectly impartial! I see no scriptural evidence impartiality has anything to do with exact initial faith given by God.

(Acts 10:34)

Again, In being partial or not by God has to anything with initial faith. You , yourself must acknowledge that though God's will is perfect and equal toward all Born Again Christians. But, you must also agree, that in your lifetime, have not seen the initial faith of all Born Again Christians be the same.

( Eph 2:8-10)

Agreed, but I still don't see this having anything to do with initial for all is the same.

John 6:28-29)

I see not much difference in initial belief and faith

! Rom 10:9-10

Nothing could be more true. I truly believe that all that have this belief are saved. But in no way, can I conceive that this level of initial belief is the same with all. I would agree though, that , for sure, there must be an equal minimum for us all, and hence, impartiality.

( James 2:19-26)

What does faith without works have to do with this discussion?

 

[amadeus2]

God is certainly no respecter of persons, but He has given different individuals different gifts in different measures. He is not respecter in that He will fault you because you did not do what was beyond your power or your choice. In the parable of talents not the same number of talents were given to each person, but each person was measured by the Master according to what he did with what he had been given. Each increased what he had been given by proper usage except the one who had been given only one talent. That one hid his talent and when the Master returned he returned only the one talent he had been given and was rebuked for it.

Some of us were born in countries with better educational opportunities than others. Some of us were born with better natural skills than others. Some of us were born with higher IQs than others. Some of us were born in families having more natural wealth than others. Considering what we were born with, how did we proceed from there? In this, God is no respecter of persons. He weighs out what He knows that each of was given against what we had at the end of our time. This is why no one else can fairly make this judgment call, for only God knows exactly what each of had and what each of us has done with what he had.

 

[Brighthouse]

If brother R.J you mean the working of faith,I agree! because in order for faith to work in ones life,one must believe in the faith already fulfilled. Ones life displays this. I hope I understand the point you are looking to make on this bro. There are many who believe that faith and believing are the same,I am not among them brother,as I showed in scripture why I do not hold to this. So if there are people who do believe this,then we will have to agree to disagree. I can only go by what I believe the Lord has shown me in my own life on this. I do not believe any can lack faith,I do believe many can lack belief in there faith though. Jesus can never be at fault.He knows what he has done,and he has no doubt in himself,the problem is we can. The reason we can is the excuse I used to make,which is,my lack is because of his lack of measure of faith he gave me,which would means Jesus has lack?? ( Phil 4:19) LOL Ah not to me or most here bro. How can the Lord of supply not have enough of it?? hehe also 2 Peter 1:3-11

 

[RJ]

If one wants to get down to possible detail ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence). They are very close to each other in the humans life, but are actually different as I have tried to explain above. Faith is from God, belief is an human emotion, but I don't think you have much hope of belief without the faith first. But that gets us back to the original discussion, where you believe that God give us all equal amounts of faith, I see nothing that supports that. The way I politely see it, is that, For by grace you have been saved through faith. Initially, to be Born Again, you must have this God given faith and it is up to him who actually has enough or not. He is , of course, perfect and he could only offer to us an equal amount of saving faith. But from the foundation he has always demonstrated his desire to treat us equally and therefore given us choice, otherwise we would all perfectly have the same amount of perfect faith he offers and we would have doubt or fears and be prefect in faith, which none of us have. God Bless!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If brother R.J you mean the working of faith,I agree! because in order for faith to work in ones life,one must believe in the faith already fulfilled. Ones life displays this. I hope I understand the point you are looking to make on this bro. There are many who believe that faith and believing are the same,I am not among them brother,as I showed in scripture why I do not hold to this. So if there are people who do believe this,then we will have to agree to disagree. I can only go by what I believe the Lord has shown me in my own life on this. I do not believe any can lack faith,I do believe many can lack belief in there faith though. Jesus can never be at fault.He knows what he has done,and he has no doubt in himself,the problem is we can. The reason we can is the excuse I used to make,which is,my lack is because of his lack of measure of faith he gave me,which would means Jesus has lack?? ( Phil 4:19) LOL Ah not to me or most here bro. How can the Lord of supply not have enough of it?? hehe also 2 Peter 1:3-11

Exactly and when Jesus said if you Believe in your Heart - He is talking about your core which is your Spirit. It is the same when it comes to seeing - It is seeing it in your spirit. If you can not beleive or see it then you cant expect your Faith to do you much good at all. It is one thing to say I beleive but then another to beleive in your spirit where Nothing can change your mind. The devil can not persecute you enough to change your mind. Circumstances can not ever get bad enough to change your mind when you see it in your spirit.
Blessings

 

[RJ]

Exactly and when Jesus said if you Believe in your Heart - He is talking about your core which is your Spirit. It is the same when it comes to seeing - It is seeing it in your spirit. If you can not beleive or see it then you cant expect your Faith to do you much good at all. It is one thing to say I beleive but then another to beleive in your spirit where Nothing can change your mind. The devil can not persecute you enough to change your mind. Circumstances can not ever get bad enough to change your mind when you see it in your spirit.
Blessings

Of course, I believe in this as well but, I must ask one question: You having this believing in your heart or "core spirit", does this mean you do this perfectly with no doubt, 24/7 ?

 

[Brighthouse]

I know how tough this can be brother RJ but there are conditions always in following.( James 1:5-8) As in do we have any doubt at all that Jesus is our Savior?? NOPE! Same mindset.Now does this mean we will always believe correctly,well I have made plenty of mistake all! I am still learning the meaning of not just being led by Holy Spirit but staying led!!( Rom 8:14-15) What is very easy for the believer, is to dwell upon his or her mistakes,but please look at a perfect example given to us by our brother Paul, ( Phil 3:12-14!!!) WE press forward to!!! So that!! Always a purpose!! ( 1 Peter 1:3-9!!!) Blessing! And to never be surprised!!!!( 1 Peter 4:12-16!)

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Of course, I believe in this as well but, I must ask one question: You having this believing in your heart or "core spirit", does this mean you do this perfectly with no doubt, 24/7 ?

Good question.
The spirit never changes so the spirit does it perfectly at all times.
However I may not perceive this fact at all times.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Of course, I believe in this as well but, I must ask one question: You having this believing in your heart or "core spirit", does this mean you do this perfectly with no doubt, 24/7 ?

Rj Hello,
This is not a straight forward question to answer. Here is why.
One we are not perfect but thank God He is not looking for perfection but obedience.
So what I am saying is that there are times when we might miss the mark even in believing but we can run to Grace and repent and change our thinking and how we were doing things and this pleases the Father.

Now on the other hand - that is the idea - to get to the place where you dont doubt or have disbelief or fear in your thinking. Like Jesus told jairus - STOP the "Fear" and Only Believe. Fear births doubt and unbelief and doubt and unbelief does not bring forth the desired answers you are looking for.

The soulution is to get more and more of Gods word "anointing or power" in you and therefore by doing so you learn to walk in the spirit 24/7/365 with out doubt and so forth.
NOTICE......doubt and unbelife and fear will still try to get in you BUT it is up to you to either "ROOT" it out or give it ground to take root. It is the same with Gods word. It starts as a seed and it is up to each of us to "feed it" or "water it" or as luke says keep it moist and we do this by Not only keeping Gods word in our eyes 24/7/365 but by speaking it and doing it.

Also remember when in the written word of God we read the Word Christ - it is NOT referring to Jesus.
Christ will be one of two things.
1. The "Anointed one"
2. The "Anointing"
Any time they are talking about the "Man" it will be written Jesus

Example..........
Ephesians 4:7
But unto everyone of us is given "grace" (unmerited favor) "According" to the "measure" ( amount or DEPTH or Degree) of the gift of Christ.

This shows us that the level of Grace or Gods Favor will depend on how much of His Anointing or power or action of His word is in us. This is up to each of us. We are the ones who control this. It does not read Jesus gives some one measure and others another amount or measure. No sir, we are the ones who say how much His word or ways works in our lives.

God has kingdom laws - these laws are the way in which we are to conduct our selves once we become born again and get over into operating in the kingdom God.

We must strive to learn how to operate according to His ways or written word at ALL TIMES. We get sloppy with His word or ways in our lives then our walk will be a sloppy one. We get back what we put in. Simply reading His word does not make us a mature Christian able to stand firmly in or ON His written word and ways.

Any time we have trouble believing to the point nothing can shake us - we have a word problem and in which causes a faith problem and so forth.
Blessings
James

 

[RJ]

One we are not perfect but thank God He is not looking for perfection but obedience.

Yes, and in obedience we are not perfect;

So what I am saying is that there are times when we might miss the mark even in believing but we can run to Grace and repent and change our thinking and how we were doing things and this pleases the Father.

That's the difference between us and the "Old man", before we couldn't but now, we know the difference. Before we didn't recognize sin but now we do. That is a sign of a "First fruit" from the Holy Spirit with in, proof that faith with out works is dead....his work of us recognizing sin, from him to and through us. But, even in this recognition we are not perfect.

The soulution is to get more and more of Gods word "anointing or power" in you and therefore by doing so you learn to walk in the spirit 24/7/365 with out doubt and so forth.

As, discussed, I don't see this happening 24/7. If you think you can do this perfectly, no offense but I think you are a bit misguided on this. Remember, God said if we miss one aspect of the law, we have missed the entire law! That hasn't changed, God still demands perfection in faith and belief but what has change and because of Christ, we no longer pay the penalty when we mess up.

God has kingdom laws - these laws are the way in which we are to conduct our selves once we become born again and get over into operating in the kingdom God.

Same as above discussion

We must strive to learn how to operate according to His ways or written word at ALL TIMES.

Yes, always strive but we now have the assurance of salvation, even when we don't do such a good job sometimes.
God Bless you as well!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Yes, and in obedience we are not perfect;

That's the difference between us and the "Old man", before we couldn't but now, we know the difference. Before we didn't recognize sin but now we do. That is a sign of a "First fruit" from the Holy Spirit with in, proof that faith with out works is dead....his work of us recognizing sin, from him to and through us. But, even in this recognition we are not perfect.

As, discussed, I don't see this happening 24/7. If you think you can do this perfectly, no offense but I think you are a bit misguided on this. Remember, God said if we miss one aspect of the law, we have missed the entire law! That hasn't changed, God still demands perfection in faith and belief but what has change and because of Christ, we no longer pay the penalty when we mess up.

Same as above discussion

Yes, always strive but we now have the assurance of salvation, even when we don't do such a good job sometimes.
God Bless you as well!

RJ,
You have what God saying about "Law" confused and running together. Your quote is talking about the old and now destroyed law that some still tried to live by. That is not the laws of God today or kingdom law that I was speaking about.

Brother as long as you "dont see" then yea I agree it wont be happening in your life. The works of faith are simply actions. Corresponding Actions will always follow Faith or rather NEED to follow after faith. You can not simply say I have faith and think you believe and it is done.

James

 

[KingJ]

You are all not making sense to me.

@RJ You are comparing our ability to obey the law to our faith. What faith are you comparing it too? You imply we will always have shaky faith as we never obey the law 100%. What faith will be shaky?

@Wired 4 Fishen You say we have solid faith in our core spirit and our mind needs to play catch-up. You have faith 24/7 in your spirit....in what? Your mind needs to play catch-up to what faith? What faith does your renewed mind shake on?

@Thiscrosshurts You say ''The spirit never changes so the spirit does it perfectly at all times. However I may not perceive this fact at all times''. What faith do you not perceive at all times? What faith does the spirit do perfectly?

Faith is not a stand alone word.

1. Our carnal mind does faith in God perfectly. As Heb 11:6 says we ''must'' believe God exists / A fool says there is not God Psalm 14:1 as belief in God is the default belief for every working brain Rom 1:20.

2. Our renewed mind does faith in Jesus perfectly. As by the Holy Spirit we can ''never'' say Jesus is not Lord / curse Him 1 Cor 12:3. There is no such thing as an ex Christian atheist.

3. Our renewed mind and our spirit grow in faith in God. Since God can do anything Rom 9, we and all of His creation that are able, have hope in Him choosing to be good. Meet our needs and wants. That is the only shaky ground for both spirit and renewed mind. That is why the wise fear God.

 

[KingJ]

It is like saying we must love and not hate. Well what and whom must we love? What and whom must we not hate?

Build your love. Grow in love. Love is 24/7 in your spirit...