Why do we continually struggle with the same sin (even though desperately wanting change)?

[Alice K.]

Ah I misunderstood you my friend...I'm sorry

No it's alright, don't worry about it

 

[tafadzwa]

He actually has a good point here. It's part of working out your salvation. We all struggle with certain things to whatever degree. I have a few struggles I've been dealing with my while life that even causes me to question my salvation. It's a bit frightening but it's real. What do we do? Trust in God's promises. All paid on the Cross by Jesus Christ without conditions. All grace, all His work not ours.

Remember sanctification is a lifelong process. We continue selling Him and leading without ceasing. We all for his forgiveness and strength.

Listen to Charles Stanley. One of the best living preachers who hits home in every sermon.

@Chad

Easier said than done because, any mature Christian who knows the Word is almost certainly going to give the same answers as you guys here have given. I am therefore familiar with that kind of response given by Brad. My point is that if you look at Christians struggling with sin, it seems to really wear people down even when they want to change and change genuinely. Like i also said in the above post, i believe this is when some people commit suicide.

There are indeed moments when one wants out. But even in those moments it is extremely hard to just quit. This World can mess us up. Big time.

The story of that pastor is a real thumper, Chad.

 

[Alice K.]

Yeah, I agree. And in the end God punished David, yet Jesus was still called the son of David anyhow, I think that was something that always touched my heart about God. So if your saying the song is still valid, I do see that and agree, especially with the example of David.

There is also this one quote from a Christian guy in his book, it may or may not help, but I was just now reminded of it.

"The truth is we are all going to limp across the finish line to some degree. Of course there is victory in Jesus and of course are we more than conquerors through Christ as the apostle Paul says; but even Paul had a thorn in the flesh. Most of us have a spiritual Achilles’ heel. We all will have spiritual bruises, cuts, and sores. Some will limp across the finish line still fighting their addiction to porn. Some will limp across the finish line with their addiction to food. And some will limp across the finish line with their attraction to the same sex.

The issue isn’t whether someone is good or bad, but whether he is repentant or unrepentant. Who is God of her life? Who’s in control? What or who are they pursuing? Are they looking to him or trusting in self? Because I trust that if Jesus’ grace has radically collided with a heart, I believe that person will begin to align themselves with Jesus’ image, looking more like him everyday. "
Jefferson Bethke, from Jesus > Religion

 

[tafadzwa]

There is also this one quote from a Christian guy in his book, it may or may not help, but I was just now reminded of it.

"The truth is we are all going to limp across the finish line to some degree. Of course there is victory in Jesus and of course are we more than conquerors through Christ as the apostle Paul says; but even Paul had a thorn in the flesh. Most of us have a spiritual Achilles’ heel. We all will have spiritual bruises, cuts, and sores. Some will limp across the finish line still fighting their addiction to porn. Some will limp across the finish line with their addiction to food. And some will limp across the finish line with their attraction to the same sex.

The issue isn’t whether someone is good or bad, but whether he is repentant or unrepentant. Who is God of her life? Who’s in control? What or who are they pursuing? Are they looking to him or trusting in self? Because I trust that if Jesus’ grace has radically collided with a heart, I believe that person will begin to align themselves with Jesus’ image, looking more like him everyday. "
Jefferson Bethke, from Jesus > Religion

Interesting comments. Can you see issues that begin to surface when the writer tries to zero down on this whole issue of fighting sin. Repentance. Picture this cycle of....... Sin to Repentance. Sin to Repentance. Sin to Repentance. For 16 or more years.

 

[Chad]

@Chad

Easier said than done because, any mature Christian who knows the Word is almost certainly going to give the same answers as you guys here have given. I am therefore familiar with that kind of response given by Brad. My point is that if you look at Christians struggling with sin, it seems to really wear people down even when they want to change and change genuinely. Like i also said in the above post, i believe this is when some people commit suicide.

There are indeed moments when one wants out. But even in those moments it is extremely hard to just quit. This World can mess us up. Big time.

The story of that pastor is a real thumper, Chad.

Let's get to the solution here. What do you think is the solution to break free and be free in Christ?

 

[Sue J Love]

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come” (2 Co. 5:17).

“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal. 2:20).

“Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. But that is not the way you learned Christ! — assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph. 4:17-24).

“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works” (Tit. 2:11-14).

“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it” (1 Co. 10:13).

“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched’” (Mark 9:42-48).

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood” (Heb. 12:1-4).

I see two main reasons why someone who claims to be a believer in Jesus Christ may not have victory over sin. #1 – This person does not really know Christ, for he or she has never been crucified with Christ in death to sin, and resurrected with Christ in newness of life, “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph. 4:24). She or he has not been born from above, and so the old is not gone, and the new has not come. #2 – This person is not willing to do what it takes to truly be free. We have to put that old life to death. And, we have to cut out of our lives everything which leads us to continually sin against God. And, we have to put on the things of God in its place.

I know many people who have been or are struggling with sexual addiction, but they have not had victory over sin, because they continually toy with sin and play with temptation, and they feed the sin via the things they daily take into their minds and eyes. If we want to be free from sexual addiction, we have to get radical. We have to cut out of our lives those things which are influencing us and leading us into sin. If the internet leads you to sin, get rid of it. With the inventions of smart phones and tablets and laptop computers, too many people have the privacy of access to pornographic images at the touch of a finger. Even regular sites on the internet, including news sites, have images of half-dressed men and women on the sides or at the bottom of the screen, and some of these are moving images to capture people’s attention. If this is your weakness, then this is not good for you!

So many of these same people watch movies and TV shows containing sexual situations and innuendos in them, or which have situations where people married to other people are having romantic feelings and thoughts towards people to whom they are not married, and they are flirting with that temptation. The same types of themes are in secular music, and on social media. Social media is another place that is bad for people with sexual addiction, because they are being seduced by unknown people via ads on the side, or via private messages, or they are drawn to reconnect with old “flames” and thus they end up in extra-marital affairs. If you play with fire, you are bound to get burned. If we truly want to be free, we will do what it takes to be free. We will resist Satan, flee temptation and draw near to God, and daily we will put on the armor of God with which to fight off Satan’s evil attacks against us, and we will remove from our lives all avenues of temptation over which we have control, so that we don’t fall into temptation. And, we will obey God and do what he says.

 

[amadeus2]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to missay anything, I suppose I only thought of the fact that David couldn't build the temple, although Solomon did though, still I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to missay anything, I'm no expert

None of us here are experts. The only expert in this is God. Quite often, however, God uses people [even you or I] to speak the Truth. We must learn to be an available vessel. This is done through surrendering to Him through Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

Why? From past personal experiences and looking at the life of other Christians i have to ask why we sometimes struggle with certain sins continuously. For extended periods of time sometimes lasting for years. Despite wanting change and become better people.

I know of a certain pastor (some of you might also know the story - details are not important here). He struggled for about 16 years with a particular sin, and it wore him out to the extend that he showed symptoms of a cancer patient. Literally. Loss of hair, sleepless nights, vomiting, lethargy e.t.c He knowingly said it was cancer, he knew it was not, when in actual fact the truth was that he was too ashamed/embarrassed to admit his real sin to his family, his church and his community. People prayed for this cancer patient. Their pastor. A man with a family. Serving God. Of course we all know whatever is hidden will be brought to light. People later knew the truth. At an agonizing time. Though. (Being a popular pastor from a known church, the media had a party - you guessed right.)

He had an addiction from age 12. This man suffered wanting to change for a good 16 years. Think about that. Why that long?

This story is one of the most mind boggling stories about sin which i can totally relate to. But never have a satisfactory answer to. Does God allow us to keep suffering for that long even when we have reached a point of desperation. I believe this man reached a point of desperation well before that 16 years. He desired change. He did. But he just could not stop his addiction.

Try Understand me here.

We are called to hate sin, not be sinless.

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. We must all acknowledge that Paul was not referring to a mortal sin / murdering Christians.

Rom 12:9 Genuine love is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good.

The preacher in your OP qualifies to preach / not beat himself up as long as he is battling with venial sins. Paul is clear to us in 1 Cor 5 that should any of us be battling with mortal type sins we should be kicked out of church. The reason is dead obvious. Many caught up in a 'hyper' grace gospel miss it. Mortal sin shows our heart is far from God.

Many also miss interpret Matt 5:28 ''if you think of another immorally you have committed adultery''. The only point by Jesus here is for us to grasp that we all have sin and are sinners. It is a brilliant example. He did not want all married couples to now divorce as they were all guilty of adultery. This is why it is key to quote Matt 5:28 with Matt 5:32 ''except for actual adultery do not divorce''.

 

[HisFollower]

[for me anyway] this is why the Lord Jesus Christ tells us if we are going to follow Him we must deny our self (deny our own will) and this we must do daily all the day long, that we may continually make the sincere effort to submit to and rely upon the will of God which is by His Word. Beside this we must also daily repent and own our sins, which we will do as we also deny our own will. The difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is that we which truly do believe do no longer put our trust into the hands and power of sin anymore, but into the hands of God; contrariwise the children of the devil do still put their trust into the hands and power of sin: so therefore are there the penitent sinners and the impenitent sinners: but as Paul we also may ask who shall deliver us from the body of this death (concerning sinning); answer: we as Paul thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. For the good which we would do we do not; but the evil which we would not that we do: we see then a law that when we would do good, evil is present with us. This is our cross and daily battle against sin.
(Romans 7:14-25)
(Matthew 16:24)
(1 John 3:8-10)

 

[amadeus2]

We are called to hate sin, not be sinless.

I guess we need to know what God means by perfect:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Alone we can never be perfect or sinless. Did Jesus have any tools to overcome "... the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,..." I John 2:16, that we do not?

We are limited and we limit God, but if we stop limiting God in us, what is impossible for us?

"With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

 

[tafadzwa]

Thank you all for the scriptures posted here. Again i have to say that i am not talking about to people struggling with SIN but no real intentions to quit. I'm talking about that pastor suffering for 16 years, that brother wanting to quit drinking. that drug addict wanting to be free.

Talk is cheap. Ain't it? That pastor. A man ravaged by Sin. wanting to go free, yet crushed down. Hopeless almost rendered useless. A sobering example to me of the reality of life and what Sin can do to a living soul. When it all came out some Christians would have wanted to press a button and automatically the brother explodes into a thousand pieces. Wipe him out. Isn't there something left to love.

Have we prayed? Not because of what we have lost and the situation we find ourselves in because of him/her. Prayed for him/her. Seeing what the "world" has done to him/her. Corrupted him/her. The struggles that have worn him/her out till when he/she does not know where or how to go on.

I see two main reasons why someone who claims to be a believer in Jesus Christ may not have victory over sin. #1 – This person does not really know Christ, for he or she has never been crucified with Christ in death to sin, and resurrected with Christ in newness of life, “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph. 4:24). She or he has not been born from above, and so the old is not gone, and the new has not come. #2 – This person is not willing to do what it takes to truly be free. We have to put that old life to death. And, we have to cut out of our lives everything which leads us to continually sin against God. And, we have to put on the things of God in its place.

@Sue J Love. This you said above is exactly what i am NOT talking about. I am talking about someone who truly and genuinely desires change to come to their loves. #1 They know Christ. #2 This person is willing to do what it takes to be free.

I have seen a scripture quoted here by @King J

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

i believe here Paul had had enough. Isn't it. I believe he had experienced the very experience i am referring to here, with all the desire to please God, where one struggles, wanting out, but didn't come easy.

@Chad said

We all struggle with certain things to whatever degree. I have a few struggles I've been dealing with my while life that even causes me to question my salvation. It's a bit frightening but it's real.

I could not help but laugh at this one because an uncle of mine now in his 70s once said exactly the same thing; that as a Christian sometimes you find yourself doing things that make you yourself ask this question: Am i really saved?

@alice K quoted someone who said

Some will limp across the finish line still fighting their addiction to porn. Some will limp across the finish line with their addiction to food. And some will limp across the finish line with their attraction to the same sex.

....struggling with the same sin continuously, even though wanting change.


This is just my opinion and i stand corrected. I am also trying to get my head around it by the way:Could it be that this world has done some things to us. programmed us to behave in a certain way hence the difficult time we having in getting rid of the filth and "unprogramming" ourselves. Hence the repeated Sin to Repentance cycle despite having had enough. Which might also be a dirty tactic by the devil to wear us out and believe it is not doable. @Sue J Love went on to give examples of this world dishes out stuff to us, social media, secular music, TV, ADs. and all there is to it. The devil means business in whatever he is doing.

 

[KingJ]

This is just my opinion and i stand corrected. I am also trying to get my head around it by the way:Could it be that this world has done some things to us. programmed us to behave in a certain way hence the difficult time we having in getting rid of the filth and "unprogramming" ourselves. Hence the repeated Sin to Repentance cycle despite having had enough. Which might also be a dirty tactic by the devil to wear us out and believe it is not doable.

Definitely a factor toward venial sins. But not an excuse for mortal sins. Playing violent games does not make one kill. But it does put thoughts of vengeance in your mind. There is always a line to cross in committing a mortal sin. A line a Christian cannot / should not cross. If we do, we repent very quickly and do not continue in it. Any person who continues in mortal sin is en route to hell.

Just to further add to my thoughts on this... We all need to grasp the difference in depth of intents. The bible is filled with examples in both directions, good and evil. It is a depth of intent toward what is good that causes us to repent (Psalm 51:17, James 4:8, Jer 17:10, Rev 3:20, Rom 12:9) and God to in turn reveal Jesus to us (1 Cor 12:3).

The OT is filled with examples of mortal sins. Even in the NT we are given many warnings by Paul. 1 Cor 5 starts off with one committing incest. This chapter explaining the need to remove sinners from the church is not to venial sinners. Can you imagine Paul starting the chapter with 'there is a parent here who gives their kid too much candy' or 'there is one here who had thoughts of killing his boss'.

We are able to escape God's judgment if we judge ourselves truthfully 1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. We are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. Now we can do that if we are fighting venial sins. As we are living in a corrupted flesh. But there is no chance in hell for us to truthfully exempt ourselves before God if we find ourselves committing mortal sins that we knew upset God such that he ordain an immediate death penatly by stoning as a fitting punishment. I find the instruction from God through His prophets to have people stoned to death very indicative of His general feelings on the particular sins.

Now I am not saying venial sinners cannot go to hell. I am not talking about obtaining or losing salvation at all. I am only reasoning the context of self examination that Paul urges us to do in mutliple verses. In addition to the already quoted verses, there are these 2 Cor 13:5, 1 Cor 2:15, 1 Cor 6.

 

[KingJ]

I guess we need to know what God means by perfect:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Alone we can never be perfect or sinless. Did Jesus have any tools to overcome "... the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,..." I John 2:16, that we do not?

We are limited and we limit God, but if we stop limiting God in us, what is impossible for us?

"With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

I don't believe we can compare ourselves to God / Jesus even if in the flesh. I agree we are not perfect and never can be. God takes us from where we are and washes us clean. The issue for us rotates around who He does in fact decide to save / wash clean. Now we know that it is the whomsoever will be after His heart per Rom 12:9, Psalm 51:17, Matt 16:24.

As Christians we should know this and issue the challenge to every religious person on the planet. Hate what is evil more. Judge yourself better. There is no way in hell that someone who hates what is evil with any decent depth of intent will find themselves in hell. John 3:19 could not be clearer. People reject Jesus because they love the darkness.

I also agree with the point you making that with Jesus all things are possible. Even victory over venial sins.

We have probably discussed this subject a million times. But it is always nice to repeat it and read our repeated words. This is the whole premise of our faith :smile:. I could type all day on this subject.

 

[Bendito]

Definitely a factor toward venial sins. But not an excuse for mortal sins. Playing violent games does not make one kill. But it does put thoughts of vengeance in your mind. There is always a line to cross in committing a mortal sin. A line a Christian cannot / should not cross. If we do, we repent very quickly and do not continue in it. Any person who continues in mortal sin is en route to hell.

Just to further add to my thoughts on this... We all need to grasp the difference in depth of intents. The bible is filled with examples in both directions, good and evil. It is a depth of intent toward what is good that causes us to repent (Psalm 51:17, James 4:8, Jer 17:10, Rev 3:20, Rom 12:9) and God to in turn reveal Jesus to us (1 Cor 12:3).

The OT is filled with examples of mortal sins. Even in the NT we are given many warnings by Paul. 1 Cor 5 starts off with one committing incest. This chapter explaining the need to remove sinners from the church is not to venial sinners. Can you imagine Paul starting the chapter with 'there is a parent here who gives their kid too much candy' or 'there is one here who had thoughts of killing his boss'.

We are able to escape God's judgment if we judge ourselves truthfully 1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. We are to work out our salvation in fear and trembling Phil 2:12. Now we can do that if we are fighting venial sins. As we are living in a corrupted flesh. But there is no chance in hell for us to truthfully exempt ourselves before God if we find ourselves committing mortal sins that we knew upset God such that he ordain an immediate death penatly by stoning as a fitting punishment. I find the instruction from God through His prophets to have people stoned to death very indicative of His general feelings on the particular sins.

Now I am not saying venial sinners cannot go to hell. I am not talking about obtaining or losing salvation at all. I am only reasoning the context of self examination that Paul urges us to do in mutliple verses. In addition to the already quoted verses, there are these 2 Cor 13:5, 1 Cor 2:15, 1 Cor 6.

Venial sins? Mortal sins? ????????????????

 

[KingJ]

Venial sins? Mortal sins? ????????????????

I honestly don't know how anyone can read the bible and miss this truth. We are not God. We can only look at ours and other's fruits. If we use the acid test of mortal and venial sins the fog clouding the heart's intentions kind of dissipates. Just understand, before you jump that I am not talking about earning or losing salvation. Mortal and venial sins are indicators of how much we hate or love what is evil / how far gone we are.

Matt 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

 

[Alice K.]

None of us here are experts. The only expert in this is God. Quite often, however, God uses people [even you or I] to speak the Truth. We must learn to be an available vessel. This is done through surrendering to Him through Jesus.

Thank you for saying this I definitely agree

 

[Curtis]

As long as we are all living in "fleshly" bodies there will be that annoyance of sin ever present until this mortal body is put off, and supernatural bodies takes it's place. Walking in the Spirit is the only way to keep the flesh in check. "Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh" (Gal 5:16)

 

[Alice K.]

Interesting comments. Can you see issues that begin to surface when the writer tries to zero down on this whole issue of fighting sin. Repentance. Picture this cycle of....... Sin to Repentance. Sin to Repentance. Sin to Repentance. For 16 or more years.

Yeah I know what you're saying, lived through it too, not that for long, but I understand what you mean

 

[JohnP]

Let's get to the solution here. What do you think is the solution to break free and be free in Christ?

Someone who is struggling with the sin-repent-sin cycle has a stronghold within them. (See 2 Corinthians 10:4). Strongholds take root in lies and deception. Jesus said that we would be held in bondage from the strongholds in our lives. You debunk the lies of the enemy, with the truth, which is in the Word of God! When you believe that Jesus Christ accomplished it all on the cross, then you are justified by faith. Nothing can therefore separate you from Christ. Not angels, not the devil and definitely not your sins (no matter the sin).

 

[amadeus2]

I don't believe we can compare ourselves to God / Jesus even if in the flesh.

No, the apostle Paul made it clear about making comparisons [II Cor 10:12], but that is the old man that wants to do that. The new man is already better than the old man and if we allowing it, he [the new man] is improving even as John the Baptist said it:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

I agree we are not perfect and never can be.

In God's eyes we can be even as He viewed Job in Job 1:1. The perfection is not in what this very corruptible and corrupted flesh, but in the heart. David pointed Solomon to that way, but Solomon apparently did not have or lost his vision and without a vision we perish. [Prov 29:18].

God takes us from where we are and washes us clean. The issue for us rotates around who He does in fact decide to save / wash clean. Now we know that it is the whomsoever will be after His heart per Rom 12:9, Psalm 51:17, Matt 16:24.

As Christians we should know this and issue the challenge to every religious person on the planet. Hate what is evil more. Judge yourself better. There is no way in hell that someone who hates what is evil with any decent depth of intent will find themselves in hell. John 3:19 could not be clearer. People reject Jesus because they love the darkness.

I also agree with the point you making that with Jesus all things are possible. Even victory over venial sins.

Victory over not only the intentional sins, but also over the sins of our ignorance.