Who Is This?
- Thread starter Bendito
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Bendito
Loyal
Ok How about...The woman is the Church and the man child is the one new man....The bride of Christ
Thanks for asking this Bendito. Here is the scripture:
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."
The woman is simply the true believers. True believers are 'naked' and in sin until Christ clothes them with his own righteousness. This is what is meant by being clothed with the sun. The sun is a picture of Christ in the Bible. The believers are clothed with Christ. They are in heaven, meaning they are secure in Christ. The moon is a picture of the law in the Bible. The moon is under the woman's feet because she has gained victory through Christ over the penalty of the law. That is why she is above it, not under it. The crown of twelve stars is language emphasizing the believers. Notice that both the woman and the dragon are described as great. The Bible uses the term great to point us to the great tribulation period. This is made even more obvious by the fact that the time of birth pangs has come. Remember how Matthew 24 is talking about the time of great tribulation and starts with the beginnings of birth pangs? By saying that the woman is having birth pangs, the scripture is showing that the time of great tribulation has come. The time of great tribulation is the time when the congregations of the church age do not hear the gospel unto salvation anymore. Because they have consistently rejected the true believers sent to them, they fall from their position in Christ. The dragon being shown is Satan and the third part of the stars is Bible lingo for the true believers. They no longer can be heard by the congregations, so the terminology of falling to the earth is used. The devil has spiritually surrounded and fought against the saints spiritually in the congregations and has overcome them there. Just as the devil thought he had Christ defeated on the cross, so it seems like he has defeated them in the congregations, but they are not defeated. God allows the true believers to flee into the wilderness. This is Bible lingo for coming out of the congregations and fleeing to Christ alone in their hearts and minds. God takes care of them and provides for them there, in that circumstance. The man child that was mentioned is Christ, but Christ has a body as well as a head. The head is Christ and the body is the believers. When you read Revelation 12, don't think of physical places, like people's notion of a physical heaven and a physical wilderness and physical waters and so forth. Think in terms of the spiritual battles and security in Christ for true believers.
B-A-C
Loyal
The interpretation I have heard the most is that the woman is either Mary, Israel or both.
The twelve stars could be twelve tribes, twelve disciples or both.
The child of course would be Jesus. The dragon is generally thought to be satan. The third of the stars
is generally though to be the 1/3rd of angels that rebelled with him.
The male son who is to rule all nations (with a rod of iron) is Jesus. (Rev 2:27; Rev 19:15; Psalms 2:9; )
Him being caught up to the throne would seem to indicate He is at the right hand of the Father right now.
The woman who fled into the wilderness for 1,260 days ( 3 1/2 years) could have multiple meanings.
If this is a paradigm prophecy, it could be Mary and Joseph fleeing to Egypt when Herod was killing
all the male babies in Israel. (Matt 2:13-19; ) It could also be pertaining to the last 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation,
(Matt 24:16; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:21; )
The twelve stars could be twelve tribes, twelve disciples or both.
The child of course would be Jesus. The dragon is generally thought to be satan. The third of the stars
is generally though to be the 1/3rd of angels that rebelled with him.
The male son who is to rule all nations (with a rod of iron) is Jesus. (Rev 2:27; Rev 19:15; Psalms 2:9; )
Him being caught up to the throne would seem to indicate He is at the right hand of the Father right now.
The woman who fled into the wilderness for 1,260 days ( 3 1/2 years) could have multiple meanings.
If this is a paradigm prophecy, it could be Mary and Joseph fleeing to Egypt when Herod was killing
all the male babies in Israel. (Matt 2:13-19; ) It could also be pertaining to the last 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation,
(Matt 24:16; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:21; )
Bendito
Loyal
Ephesians 2:14-16(CJB)
14 For he himself is our shalom — he has made us both one and has broken down the m’chitzah which divided us 15 by destroying in his own body the enmity occasioned by the Torah, with its commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He did this in order to create in union with himself from the two groups a single new humanity and thus make shalom, 16 and in order to reconcile to God both in a single body by being executed on a stake as a criminal and thus in himself killing that enmity.
Bendito
Loyal
Many modern-day Christians do not have a full grasp of their Hebrew roots—the Jewish roots of their faith—and therefore are missing the blessing of a deeper understanding of what is rightfully theirs. It would be as if you knew your earthly father, but did not know of his heritage—your rightful inheritance. Your father’s heritage is important in making him who he is, and thus in making you who you are. Your inheritance must thus be claimed in order to have full-value in your life! Our experiences mold us, and our heritage shapes us. In the same way, Christianity was birthed out of the Jewish faith, and yet we have long-since strayed from where we came.
When the apostle Paul taught on this subject in Ephesians 2, he began by saying, “Therefore, remember.” The reason he said, “therefore remember” was because people tend to forget the revelation of the restoration of the covenant.
“Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called ‘uncircumcised’ by those who call themselves ‘the circumcision’ (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.”—Ephesians 2:11-16
Many may ask:
“Why does the Church need to know about covenant revelation?”
The scriptures teach us that the Jewish people have been given a double portion—a double blessing—as well as being repaid double for their sins [see Isaiah 40:2]. The Gentiles, by grace, have also been given a portion. So, when the two come together in unity this truly does create a threefold cord! This act of unity and covenant union makes us much stronger than we could ever have been standing on our own. When the first covenant is united with the second covenant, there is a completion that is found lacking if the two are separated from one another.
The unity between Jew and Gentile will also give birth to miraculous signs and wonders. The manifestation of this union—of Jewish believers uniting with Gentile believers—demonstrates the power of God and His manifold wisdom [see Ephesians 3]. Believers uniting as, The One New Man is that very manifestation. It has substance—it is not a dream—it is real! It is a sign and a wonder, a demonstration that God did not break His covenant with the Jews or the Gentiles.
LOL and you might say...'I have no Hebrew roots' but consider....You have been adopted into the Family of God....Makes you Hebrew and heir to all its promise
B-A-C
Loyal
I have to say.. this is a bizarre thread, hard to follow.
If the woman is the church, does that mean the church gave birth to Jesus?
Rev 12:5; And [the church] gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and [the church's] child was caught up to God and to His throne.
This makes no sense. In order to use a term as a contextual metaphor, the metaphor has to make sense through the entire train of thought.
You then switch over and say that the "man" is the new man (Christians).
Does this mean, that Christians will rule the earth (with a rod of iron) for 1,000 years? Where is Jesus during this time?
Rev 12:1; A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
Rev 12:2; and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.
Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 12:6; Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Then your last two posts go off into Christians being one with the Jews. So you are saying the woman is the church (who gave birth to Jesus)
which is a mixture of Gentiles/Jews who are all actually Jews?
Hmmm... what tribe does the church belong to? If you look at Rev 7, the chapter is divided into two parts.
Rev 7:1-7; is about (some of) the Jews that will go to heaven. Rev 7:9-17; is about (some of) the Gentiles (from every nation) that will go to heaven.
All Jews (in fact the majority) are not Christians. But it seems the majority will be at some point in the future.
Rom 11:25; For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Rom 11:28; From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
Bendito
Loyal
Oh my! The woman IS the church as you say...(now you're sure to get your knickers in a knot, and probably everyone else too. but I'm not trying to provoke a fight) The manchild is the bride of Christ. Who comes out of the church...The bride has made herself ready...Her lamp is full of oil...and many many other scriptures that say this.....The rest of the church, not being ready will have to face the great tribulation...All those who received Jesus into their hearts will be saved but not all of Christians will be part of the Bride.....The bride is the part of the church who has made 'herself' ready.....Asking Jesus into our hearts does not make us ready. What makes us ready is the constant submission to His Word....
Enoch walked with God and was not, for the Lord took him....Enoch had an intimate relationship with God
Elijah walked with God and God took him...Elijah had an intimate relationship with God
Noah walked with God, and God lifted him up above the wrath...Noah had an intimate relationship with God
Look at the story of the ten virgins....Five were ready and five were not.....why?
Do you see what I'm pointing at here?
B-A-C
Loyal
Unfortunately, I think I do. But you are still mixing metaphors.
Bendito
Loyal
How so? What I'm trying to point out is that being ready is the same as being in an intimate relationship with God