Can A Saved person Ever Become Unsaved?

[Curtis]

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ... gift is singular in that we receive the Holy Spirit. So how can it be as you claim some did not?

Being "born of the Spirit" (which means you will have the Holy Spirit living in you), and being "baptized in the Holy Spirit" (which means the Holy Spirit in his fullness is not only in you, but upon you) is a different event in the life of a believer. Jesus is our perfect example of this.

The Angel speaks to Mary, and tells her.....

Luke1:35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

The same Angel tells Joseph in a dream......

Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ was born of the Holy Spirit in his incarnation. Certainly, Jesus had the Holy Spirit living inside of him at this time But it was not until Jesus was "baptized in the Holy Spirit" did he begin to perform miracles in power.

Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Being born of the Spirit gives eternal life, but being baptized in the Holy Spirit is for service to do the will of God in power.

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Here we go again.


The disciples were in the upper room in Acts 2. Were they saved before the events in Acts 2? Were they saved before Jesus was crucified?
If they were, then they did not receive the Holy Spirit at the exact moment they got saved.

Acts 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7 There were in all about twelve men.

Here Paul meets some "disciples" (about 12 men) . They were already believers. In fact they had already been baptized "into John's baptism".
But they didn't even know there was a Holy Spirit. So now they get the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Acts 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.

Here we have a Gentile (of the Italian cohort) who was a believer. He was a "devout man who feared God".

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

But again, even though he was a believer, he didn't have the Holy Spirit until Peter visits him.

Now I suspect you aren't a Jehovah's witness (neither am I) but it's interesting they take John 3:3; and John 3:5; to mean you can be a Christian (believer)
but yet not born-again. In their world, not all Jehovah's witnesses go to heaven. Only the ones who are "born again" go to heaven, the rest have eternal life, but they spend it here on earth.

Finally we have Paul himself...
He gets saved on the road to Damascus. This is where he finds out who Jesus is. ( Acts 9:3-8; )
But even though he is a believer, he still doesn't have the Holy Spirit until he goes to Ananias's house. ( Acts 9:17; )

Notice in three of the cases above. The day of Pentecost had already happened. Acts 2 is the only time you can really say "it was the first time".

Also notice that in every case above, people spoke in tongues when they were baptized the Holy Spirit. Many pentecostals believe that you "have" to speak in tongues.
(at least once) in order to be baptized in the Spirit. That isn't necessarily my opinion, but I understand where they are coming from.
But even if the tongues aren't required, you can't argue that being baptized in the Holy Spirit happened sometime after they became a believer in every single case.

If that is how I came across, my apologies. All your examples are biblical so we know they are rock solid. I was not contending that. I was simply reiterating what Acts 2:38 says thank you

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Being "born of the Spirit" (which means you will have the Holy Spirit living in you), and being "baptized in the Holy Spirit" (which means the Holy Spirit in his fullness is not only in you, but upon you) is a different event in the life of a believer. Jesus is our perfect example of this.

The Angel speaks to Mary, and tells her.....

Luke1:35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

The same Angel tells Joseph in a dream......

Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ was born of the Holy Spirit in his incarnation. Certainly, Jesus had the Holy Spirit living inside of him at this time But it was not until Jesus was "baptized in the Holy Spirit" did he begin to perform miracles in power.

Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Being born of the Spirit gives eternal life, but being baptized in the Holy Spirit is for service to do the will of God in power.

My brother in Christ, Not according to scripture. It's seems as though your Pentecostalism is so deep rooted your view of this in scripture is myopic. Acts 2:38 is crystal clear and not complicated.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

May I put forth something for consideration?

Did Adam and Eve believe?
There can be no doubt that they knew better than anyone else at the time that God is real. No question about it.

BUT, they did they believe God or did they believe a liar?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Corinthians 15:45-49

 

[Br. Bear]

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By Whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom we have now received the atonement.
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5

 

[Br. Bear]

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2Peter 3:14-18

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Wow, "our church" and "our doctrine " and "pentacastal gospel"?? What scripture supports those phases. My brother I am having trouble seeing that as anything but prideful. According to scripture it is His church and what other than the Bible do we need to find and or refer to for doctrine? Again please stop perpetuating this false information because there is simply NO scriptural support for "Pentecostal gospel ".

please forgive me if I am mistaken but I do not think that Jesus preached a 'Pentecostal Gospel' and if you look here: The Gospel Which Paul Preached
you will see that the Apostle Paul did not preach a 'Pentecostal Gospel' either.

Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

please forgive me if I am mistaken but I do not think that Jesus preached a 'Pentecostal Gospel' and if you look here: The Gospel Which Paul Preached
you will see that the Apostle Paul did not preach a 'Pentecostal Gospel' either.

I think he is agreeing with you here. I think he is asking Waggles the same question.

 

[Br. Bear]

I think he is agreeing with you here. I think he is asking Waggles the same question.

and everyone else, thanks @B-A-C
but it is not really a question.

I did, however, ask this question:

Greetings,

May I put forth something for consideration?

Did Adam and Eve believe?
There can be no doubt that they knew better than anyone else at the time that God is real. No question about it.

BUT, they did they believe God or did they believe a liar?

Bless you ....><>

Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

My brother in Christ, Not according to scripture. It's seems as though your Pentecostalism is so deep rooted your view of this in scripture is myopic. Acts 2:38 is crystal clear and not complicated.

Lesson number one. Never take a single scripture, and try to make a doctrine out of it. That one scripture MUST agree with all other scriptures in the Bible or what you will believe will be in ERROR!!!

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Lesson number one. Never take a single scripture, and try to make a doctrine out of it. That one scripture MUST agree with all other scriptures in the Bible or what you will believe will be in ERROR!!!

What doctrine did I make? I simply pointed out how scripture tells us when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Once we receive His perfect gift we are then "fully equipped " to do whatever we are called to do. To your point of doctrine making, we have no need to make any doctrine. Instead just follow His / the Holy Bible way / doctrines.

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Lesson number one. Never take a single scripture, and try to make a doctrine out of it. That one scripture MUST agree with all other scriptures in the Bible or what you will believe will be in ERROR!!!

What doctrine did I make? I simply pointed out how scripture tells us when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Curtis]

What doctrine did I make? I simply pointed out how scripture tells us when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Once we receive His perfect gift we are then "fully equipped " to do whatever we are called to do. To your point of doctrine making, we have no need to make any doctrine. Instead just follow His / the Holy Bible way / doctrines.

This is error!!! Until a person is "baptized in the Holy Spirit" does one become equipped to do the will of God. Being born of the Spirit simply makes you a child of God. Why do you think Jesus did not do any miracles until after he was baptized in the Spirit?

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

This is error!!! Until a person is "baptized in the Holy Spirit" does one become equipped to do the will of God. Being born of the Spirit simply makes you a child of God. Why do you think Jesus did not do any miracles until after he was baptized in the Spirit?

In no way is scripture EVER in error!! By receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit you and I are fully equipped to anything that honors our Lord and Savior. ... you said, being born of the Spirit simply makes you a child of God.. this is true!! And it is proof that as a child of God we (as Jesus is) with the Holy Spirit are fully equipped as the scripture says.

 

[Curtis]

In no way is scripture EVER in error!! By receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit you and I are fully equipped to anything that honors our Lord and Savior. ... you said, being born of the Spirit simply makes you a child of God.. this is true!! And it is proff that as a child of God we (as Jesus is) with the Holy Spirit are fully equipped as the scripture says.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Do see anywhere in this scripture that says now you are ready, and equipped for every good work? Do not add to scripture something it does not say!!

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Do see anywhere in this scripture that says now you are ready, and equipped for every good work? Do not add to scripture something it does not say!!

I did not add to scripture nor would I ever. The scripture is crystal clear. I did however simply state the truth. Once we receive the Holy Spirit we are equipped and ready to do good work. Like your earlier statement saying the " Being born of the Spirit simply makes you a child of God." Is not from scripture but it is true, isn't it?

 

[Curtis]

I did not add to scripture nor would I ever. The scripture is crystal clear. I did however simply state the truth. Once we receive the Holy Spirit we are equipped and ready to do good work. Like your earlier statement saying the " Being born of the Spirit simply makes you a child of God." Is not from scripture but it is true, isn't it?

After Jesus rose of from the dead he appeared to his disciple's and he said this......

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Do you think they receive the Holy Spirit here? They sure did......
Just before Jesus ascended up to his Father Jesus said this to his disciples who had already received the Holy Spirit.

Luke 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

After already receiving the Holy Spirit Jesus told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they were endure with power from on high, which would have been the out poring of the Holy Spirit upon them for power so they could do the work of his Father.

You have completely missed the most important part of any Christian life to be able to be a witness for God in the power of the Spirit.

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

After Jesus rose of from the dead he appeared to his disciple's and he said this......

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Do you think they receive the Holy Spirit here? They sure did......
Just before Jesus ascended up to his Father Jesus said this to his disciples who had already received the Holy Spirit.

Luke 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

After already receiving the Holy Spirit Jesus told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they were endure with power from on high, which would have been the out poring of the Holy Spirit upon them for power so they could do the work of his Father.

You have completely missed the most important part of any Christian life to be able to be a witness for God in the power of the Spirit.[/QUOT

Oh contrare , I am well versed in the great commission Please stop with you assuming about me. You just said to me don't add to scripture and then you say your assumptions as if they are in scripture. This is not healthy for you to say those things.

 

[KingJ]

You are all making good points on OSAS. But I feel some are missing the boat and then those that aren't, aren't properly explaining why.

The truth is that you cannot lose your salvation. God does not make mistakes. If He grafts you in, you are in. If He adopts you, you are adopted. If He washes you in His blood, He has washed you in His blood. We can look at many examples in the bible that show that God does not make mistakes. Some examples: Moses wanted to spare the Jews worshiping the golden calf, God did not. He knew them. Moses played catch-up. Jesus says the devil has been sinning from the beginning. IE He has never wanted to repent. IE God did not make a mistake with eternal banishment of the fallen angels. Jonah had no expectations of Nineveh repenting. God did.

The confusion I believe comes in from not understanding how the gospel is presented in the NT. I believe we need to grasp that Paul for example, had to speak as though all were saved. He could not say, the front row is unsaved and the back row is saved. Though I am certain he knew this. So if we look closely at his wording we see that he calls all in church, saints / brothers. Yet we see in 1 Cor 5:1 that he is referring to a brother in the mortal sin of incest. Doing something that not even the heathens do. Would a Christian ever be able to do such? He then says in vs 11 ''But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such one not to eat''. I believe Christians can commit once off sins of such, not continue in them. Note that he is pluralizing these sins. Paul better explains this in Rom 6.

The reason we always go back and forth on OSAS is because everyone wants to call themselves Christians en route to heaven. So what ends up happening is that we have a detailed discussion on OSAS instead of what it takes to get saved. When we properly grasp what it takes to get saved we can better grasp all the confusion and ....heresy being spread.

So what does it take to get saved? What exactly is salvation? What exactly are we being saved from?

We are not saved from hell. We are saved from death. We go from death to life / earth to heaven. WE have the ability to get ourselves into hell. WE have the ability to choose salvation. We repent, God judges this (Jer 17:10) and if we pass, He washes us clean and gives us a revelation of Jesus by the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3. So that at the end of the day once all is said and done, there will be a split between those that did not repent sincerely and those that did. Those that hated what is evil and those that did not Rom 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.