‘RIP A PAGE OUT OF YOUR BIBLE’

[Marek]

But of course you should not view the law as some kind of bondage, test the spirit by reading (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

 

[B-A-C]

But of course you should not view the law as some kind of bondage, test the spirit by reading (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

Indeed...

1 Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome

However being circumcized was a heavy yoke. ( Gal 5:1-2; )

 

[B-A-C]

To borrow a page from the "Liberal Bible".

"Has no man condemned you? Then neither do I condemn you. Now go and do whatever makes you happy." -- Not Jesus.

 

[amadeus2]

Is it the 'seeing through a glass darkly ' position that prevents some from seeing what you are saying ?

People are all blind when they are born to their natural mothers... spiritually blind that is. Jesus always saw the truth clearly for He was the Truth. What stops a person from seeing all of the Truth [all of Jesus] all of the time? We have all developed very bad habits, which, even if they in themselves may not be sin, when they are followed, they lead us back to sin. God's complete vision or plan for men considered all of those things and provided the means for anyone to attain what God wanted for them:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

What is it that we love the most? The quick answer for many Christians would likely be, God or Jesus or the things of God, but actions do tell the truth when we are so often prone to lie. God look at our hearts.

The scripture does says that "every man is a liar" [Rom 3:4 and Psalm 116:11]. We do not all lie purposely but many times we lie through ignorance. It has been said that there over 40,000 Christian denominations today. Probably a good part of the leadership in them as well as many of the members believe their doctrines are the truth. If they did not they would change, wouldn't they? Many of those doctrines are diametrically opposed to each other meaning that someone is lying, even if they do not believe they are lying.

How responsible are we for what we see of the things of God? At natural birth what vision of the things of God did we have? When we met the Master, we were all of a sudden able to see, even if it was through a glass darkly. So the necessity of us improving our vision was upon us as we began to grow as Jesus grew:

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

As we are increased, what happens to our responsibility?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

As we move from seeing through a glass darkly toward the face to face vision, God will require more from us.

Someone who is still drinking only milk will have comparitively little responsibilty in the things of God, but a believer must grow. Not to grow is to stand still and as standing water, eventually we will stagnate to the point where we will no longer be able to support what God calls Life.

But we do not get better understanding and better vision according to how smart we are and how much we study. If that were so then the people with high IQ's who were also good students would be able to get closer to God than those who had low IQ's and were poor students.

Surrender is the direction a person needs to go and then God through the Holy Ghost will lead that person up higher:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

A person who regularly quenches the Holy Ghost will effectively stunt his growth. A lot of people sitting on church pews regularly may for that reason never seem to change in a good way. Their eyesight [spiritual] never improves.

Remember this man?

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.

And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.

After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

How many touches from the Master will we require to see clearly? Of course, if we are regularly exercising a negative faith, we may find our vision getting worse rather than improving.

 

[Christ4Ever]

A little refreshment for us.

It was not only in Obedience, but to the very Spirit of the Law that we are talking about here which is Righteousness.

I would say I agree with this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last post:

I think last time, I said "for all practical purposes" yes, and you asked if I was practical

But the short answer here is "yes". It's OK if you call me short.

Actually no. You answered the one I posted in #43. However, now that you have answered the question in the affirmative, I very well may call you short

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, with that answer that disobedience to the Law is loss of Salvation.

Question: Then it follows "Yes, No, Maybe" that we are judged against the "Law" by our own righteousness and not our Lord's on judgment day?

Understanding that it is appointed to man to die once and then comes judgment.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Brother Bear, I told you before, keeping the Torah has nothing to do with Judaism

wasn't it the House of Judah that keep Torah and the House of Israel slacked off and didn't?

Who did say He came to find?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Exactly. I would say anyone who doesn't believe this was fed mushrooms.

why?

Bless you ....>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

The Jews are the ones who call it ceremonial law. But I'm not concerned with what you call it. That doesn't matter too much.

please excuse me but I thought it was you who was 'teaching' what you were by referring to circumcision as a ceremonial law ?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

The "disadvantage of circumcision of the flesh" was many Jews got circumcized thinking that was all that was needed to saved.
(This continued on into the New testament). See, I'm circumcized, I'm good to go. I don't need to worry about the commandments.
Yet Paul called this "false circumcision"

so are you saying that the LORD put them at a disadvantage by commanding them to be circumcised?

I can't say I ever saw that attitude regarding circumcision being all that was needed to be saved in the Bible. Where did you get that from?

The Apostle Paul called it / referred to it (circumcision) as concision, (a word he may have penned?) and by so doing, he was blatantly telling that now in Christ circumcision is as flesh cutting which was very much forbidden in/for Israel. So, not only did it profit the man nothing, it was actually something God did not agree with.

It was nothing at all about some half baked theory that it was a way to bypass Torah /Law /obedience /commandments.

B-A-C, you have repeatedly quoted Scripture and you mentioned how many times words/phrases/etc are mentioned in Scripture but in this / these thread(s) you have bypassed how many times the Apostle Paul mentioned /referred to those who abide in Christ are dead to the Law (Torah).

It appears that Torah is a new buzz word and I am somewhat surprised that you appear to be going along with law keeping and coming / returning to being under the Law in order to be saved and in order to impress God with our efforts.

You mentioned often here and in other threads (some you even start for that purpose) that we must keep the commandments but you don't list them for us, the readers who are glad to learn things of God . I noticed you said something about the commandments that Jesus gave us as written in the New Testament (by the way , this thread was about there being no division between the Old Testament and New Testament -a.k.a. Rip a page out of the Bible). Were you including all things that were not specifically recorded or were you sticking to the written letter?

Let the redeemed say so, that by the Blood of the Lamb, the only begotten Son of God , we are redeemed and we can rejoice because of Him Who loved us a gave His life for us while we were yet sinners that those who believe might have Life, His Life, holy, holy holy Life.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Christ4Ever]

Let the redeemed say so, that by the Blood of the Lamb, the only begotten Son of God , we are redeemed and we can rejoice because of Him Who loved us a gave His life for us while we were yet sinners that those who believe might have Life, His Life, holy, holy holy Life.

This wasn't meant for me dear brother, but I just have to reply!
AMEN!, AMEN!, AMEN!

 

[B-A-C]

B-A-C, you have repeatedly quoted Scripture and you mentioned how many times words/phrases/etc are mentioned in Scripture but in this / these thread(s) you have bypassed how many times the Apostle Paul mentioned /referred to those who abide in Christ are dead to the Law (Torah).

This is what I call "half truth". (Or a whole lie). You can't pick and choose verses about being under grace, and not being under..
"the law/the teachings" whatever you want to call it. Over 20 times in the NT we are told to "keep the commandments"
and that unless we repent we will die. There are even verses that say unless we keep the commandments we will not inherit
eternal life. Finally there are verses that say if we say we know Jesus but don't keep the commandments we are liars.

So, yes we need Jesus, we need grace, we need mercy, we need forgiveness, you are right in all of those things.
But we also need obedience, it's just as important as the rest. Ignore all the verses about the commandments at your
own risk. Jesus warned about this several places.

A half gospel is a whole lie.

 

[B-A-C]

B-A-C, you have repeatedly quoted Scripture and you mentioned how many times words/phrases/etc are mentioned in Scripture but in this / these thread(s) you have bypassed how many times the Apostle Paul mentioned /referred to those who abide in Christ are dead to the Law (Torah).

Yes, this hasn't escaped my notice. I have posted dozens of scriptures to support my views. You have posted virtually none.
(not a single one on the entire page 5 of this thread for example).

It's all fine and good to say "let the redeemed of the Lord say so". But unless you're obedient and repent, you're not redeemed.

 

[Marek]

Brother Bear, how can anyone say that we are dead to the Torah? then this would mean we are free and there's absolutely no single sin we are capable of committing.
As I said Paul mentioned several laws, not just the law of God, which is eternal, incapable of being destroyed, whatever any man may say. Yahusha warned us that He came not to destroy, but fulfill.
the word fulfill, Used from mid-13c. in
reference to prophecy (probably translating Latin implere, adimplere). From mid-13c. as "do, perform; carry out, consummate, carry into effect;" from c. 1300 as "complete, finish; satiate, satisfy, gratify."
Now there's people who say that Paul was a false teacher because of his writings, but, Peter warned believers about this too -
"and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.
You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,
but grow in the favour and knowledge of our Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn."

We as believers must read the bible in the context too, never look for validation but rather for the truth.
"There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the Torah of the Spirit of the life in Messiah יהושע has set me free from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 8:2). In other words, Paul is here saying that we are blessed if we, walk as Yahusha our Messiah did, obeying the Torah (not perfectly), only Messiah was capable of perfect obedience. We are free from the penalty of physical death, not spiritual. Again, if we were free from the Torah, then there's not sin, and so we would be free to live like gentiles. Yahuah is not the author of confusion, Satan is behind this.

"Therefore by works of Torah no flesh shall be declared right before Him, for by the Torah is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20) Christianity teaches, based on these verses, that there is no need to keep the Torah, but this cannot be the proper interpretation because in this same letter Paul said following - "For not the hearers of the Torah are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be declared right." (Romans 2:13).

May Yah bless you.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Marek,

Brother Bear, how can anyone say that we are dead to the Torah? then this would mean we are free and there's absolutely no single sin we are capable of committing.
As I said Paul mentioned several laws, not just the law of God, which is eternal, incapable of being destroyed, whatever any man may say. Yahusha warned us that He came not to destroy, but fulfill.
the word fulfill, Used from mid-13c. in
reference to prophecy (probably translating Latin implere, adimplere). From mid-13c. as "do, perform; carry out, consummate, carry into effect;" from c. 1300 as "complete, finish; satiate, satisfy, gratify."
Now there's people who say that Paul was a false teacher because of his writings, but, Peter warned believers about this too -
"and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.
You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,
but grow in the favour and knowledge of our Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn."

We as believers must read the bible in the context too, never look for validation but rather for the truth.
"There is, then, now no condemnation to those who are in Messiah יהושע, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the Torah of the Spirit of the life in Messiah יהושע has set me free from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 8:2). In other words, Paul is here saying that we are blessed if we, walk as Yahusha our Messiah did, obeying the Torah (not perfectly), only Messiah was capable of perfect obedience. We are free from the penalty of physical death, not spiritual. Again, if we were free from the Torah, then there's not sin, and so we would be free to live like gentiles. Yahuah is not the author of confusion, Satan is behind this.

"Therefore by works of Torah no flesh shall be declared right before Him, for by the Torah is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20) Christianity teaches, based on these verses, that there is no need to keep the Torah, but this cannot be the proper interpretation because in this same letter Paul said following - "For not the hearers of the Torah are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be declared right." (Romans 2:13).

May Yah bless you.

thank you .

I shall get back to you as soon as I am able. I hear what you are saying and would like for both of us to be refreshed and encouraged in this dialogue and of course for everyone, members or not .

Grace and Peace in Jesus Christ ,

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings B-A-C,

This is what I call "half truth". (Or a whole lie). You can't pick and choose verses about being under grace, and not being under..
"the law/the teachings" whatever you want to call it. Over 20 times in the NT we are told to "keep the commandments"
and that unless we repent we will die. There are even verses that say unless we keep the commandments we will not inherit
eternal life. Finally there are verses that say if we say we know Jesus but don't keep the commandments we are liars.

So, yes we need Jesus, we need grace, we need mercy, we need forgiveness, you are right in all of those things.
But we also need obedience, it's just as important as the rest. Ignore all the verses about the commandments at your
own risk. Jesus warned about this several places.

A half gospel is a whole lie.

Have you ever considered that what you understand may be half truth?
If I posted an equal amount of Scripture as you have, would you take any notice ? And because you and I use Scripture, does that equate to truth and sound doctrine?
Perhaps you would rather not answer my questions? That's O.K.

Godspeed

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @B-A-C ,

You replied to something I asked you much earlier in this thread. I am very sorry but it appears that I had commented on something you wrote on a different thread although you were saying much the same thing.

I don't recall saying specifically it was "sin" sacrifice, although it's possible. I did say it was for sacrifice, however there are
multiple kinds of sacrifice, but I would sin offering was by far the most prevalent.

1 Sam 15:15; Saul said, “They have brought them from the Amalekites, for the people spared the best of the sheep and oxen, to sacrifice to the Lord your God; but the rest we have utterly destroyed.”

1 Sam 15:21; But the people took some of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the choicest of the things devoted to destruction, to sacrifice to the Lord your God at Gilgal.”

Were they all intended for sin sacrifice? I don't know, but I assume some were.

which was in response to me asking

You also suggested that the sacrifice that Saul said he was going to make to the LORD with the spoil after slaughter was a sin sacrifice. Is that what it was?

forgive me please.

I had seen what you wrote here in the first post of a thread you started at much the same time :

Being led of the Spirit - Obedience

where you said :
1 Sam 15:22; Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.

The point is, God would rather have us obey Him in the first place, than to have to make a sacrifice because
we sinned.

Bless you ....><>