Do you need to repent to be saved?

[Sue J Love]

Romans 8:5-8 ESV: “For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

There are many who think they have "believed" in Jesus Christ, but their minds are still set on the flesh and are thus hostile to God, for they do not submit to God's law (his instructions to us), nor can they, thus they also cannot please God. So, they do not have "belief" that is "divinely persuaded" and thus submits to God and to his Word, and which thus leads to salvation from sin and eternal life.

 

[B-A-C]

Ephesians 2:8-10 tells us that that even the faith to believe God for salvation is a gift from God and not of ourselves, lest we should boast

I disagree. Grace is the gift here, not faith.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Grace is the predicate of that sentence. Not faith.
The reason we can't boast is because it's not of works.

And, remember that believing in Jesus is not a one time event, but it is continuous.

I agree with this... and all the scripture to support it. (I die daily, I take up my cross daily, etc.. )
But my faith doesn't change from day to day... I never change the way I believe in or about God.
My faith never wavers. But my obedience does from time to time.
It is OUR faith that makes the difference, not God's.

 

[B-A-C]

Just curious... do you have any scripture at all, that says God gives faith to some, and not to others?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I wonder, and I don't know that I have researched this, if there is a difference between saving faith and the faith to believe God for miracles.

Hi Sue,
I believe there is a difference.
Most time the faith we use to be saved is an undeveloped faith.

Scripture says Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.

Not many people have truly heard the word of God in the realm faith will be developed simply because His truth or wisdom is hidden from those who are not Born Again.

Hearing to developed faith is a life long event. None of us can say we heard it all .

A faith yet undeveloped can believe enough to get you saved but more cases then none, it can't stand against the wiles of the devil long enough to see the victory.

A Christian can be saved and walked with the Lord for 50 years and never developed their faith strong enough to stand. This is why we see so many defeated Christians these days.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying there are two faiths, just under developed and developed faith.

Blessings
W4F

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Just curious... do you have any scripture at all, that says God gives faith to some, and not to others?

I have this
Romans 12:3 says, “For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Blessings
FCJ

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I disagree. Grace is the gift here, not faith.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Grace is the predicate of that sentence. Not faith.
The reason we can't boast is because it's not of works.

@B-A-C , Greetings,
I may not be right here but I believe this to be the case.

Ephesians 2:8, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

We did not merit Grace, Faith or Salvation. So that itself says that all three are a Gift From God.

We are given Grace and We are Given Faith and We are given Salvation.
To me that is three gifts given to us in this passage.

Just how I see it.
Blessings
W4F

 

[B-A-C]

We did not merit Grace, Faith or Salvation. So that itself says that all three are a Gift From God.

Even if that's true, ummm.. no, especially if thats true... did God give some people enough faith to obey Him, and others not enough?
..and if it's "not enough" for some... is it God's fault they don't obey Him?

This is the Amplified Bible.
Eph 2:8; For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

This goes along with many many other verses.

Luke 7:50; And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Matt 9:29; Then He touched their eyes, saying, "It shall be done to you according to your faith."
Matt 9:2; And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven."
Mark 2:5; And Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
Mark 5:34; And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction."
Mark 10:52; And Jesus said to him, "Go; your faith has made you well." Immediately he regained his sight and began following Him on the road.
Luke 5:20 Seeing their faith, He said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven you."
Luke 8:48; And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace."
Luke 17:19; And He said to him, "Stand up and go; your faith has made you well."

That is by no means an exhaustive list, I think I could come up with a dozen more.
I'm not even really arguing that the faith may originally come from God. My point is that whether we obey God or not has very little to do
with how much faith we have. I agree with your statement earlier that faith can be made stronger, and grow if it is exercised.

I believe our effort at obedience has just as much to do with our salvation as how much faith we have.
We don't always have to be successful, but we need to to be at least of the time. That's why "by grace" we have been saved.
Through faith... yes faith is definitely required. But God doesn't give some of us "enough" faith to obey and be saved, and others
"just a little, not quite enough" to be saved, or to obey Him. Also faith doesn't "only" come from God.

Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

did God give some people enough faith to obey Him, and others not enough?
..and if it's "not enough" for some... is it God's fault they don't obey Him?

Hi @B-A-C ,
I really am not sure at all why you are asking me this.

We both know God gives Thee measure of Faith to every born again believer.
What we do with it is always going to be our choice and ours alone.

Speaking of Choice, is not an obedient heart a Choice?
So if Obedience is a Choice of Our Heart, how then could it be any ones fault but our own if we do not obey?

Hey, if I totally missed your point , please forgive me, because like I said, I am not understanding why you asked me this.

My point is that whether we obey God or not has very little to do
with how much faith we have. I agree with your statement earlier that faith can be made stronger, and grow if it is exercised

Again an obedient heart is a choice that all must make. Faith may play some into it, I mean you have to have Faith that God is who He says He is and will do what He says He will when we walk according to His ways.

I mean if you did not trust in God, then why would one be obedient.

Now on the flip slide, faith is going to be about worthles without obedience.

Also faith doesn't "only" come from God.

Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

And the Word was God.

Awesome talking with you
Blessings
W4F

 

[B-A-C]

Again an obedient heart is a choice that all must make. Faith may play some into it, I mean you have to have Faith that God is who He says He is and will do what He says He will when we walk according to His ways.

It sounds like we are on the same page here.

I really am not sure at all why you are asking me this.

Heh, heh, the question wasn't really directed at you, but more so the previous post before you entered the discussion

All I'm really saying here is... when we fail, it's not God's fault.
If someone (not you) says all faith comes from God... well OK, maybe that's true. I'm not really debating that point.
Then the same person says, our ability to obey to obey depends on how much faith we are given... well then we have a problem.

Because if someone doesn't obey God or get saved... they now have an excuse. It's God's fault.
I'd like to see someone standing before the judgment throne telling God... "well God, I would have gotten saved, but you didn't give
me enough faith; therefore it's your fault God". Even if it's not salvation and only sin... "well God, I wouldn't have done that sin, if
you would have just given me more faith. It's your fault I did what I did God".

That's all I'm saying here.

 

[Lanolin]

Hmm i think belief can be a mind thing but God goes further and says we must confess with our mouths and believe in our HEARTS.

Because some people will confess with their lips and but their HEARTS are far from God.

To my understanding, grace acts on our hearts...and yes we are given a measure of faith but we must use this faith. I dont think some people are given faith and some not...it is available to everyone. But its OUR faith in God just like I cant tell someone else to have faith or believe in me I cant give them that but the more I give grace the more faith someone will likely to have in me.

Sometimes its hard to make sense of it but its quite right when Jesus admires the faith that others have..for example the woman who touched his garment or the roman centurion...he cannot make someone or give someone faith they have to use it and it is a choice people make to trust someone. The more we hear his Word the more our faith will grow.

So I do see it as a choice...it is because flesh and spirit do fight one another that we are presented with sometimes difficult choices everyday. I think when people struggle it can even be conflict within themselves. If we are born again and even if we are obedient in ourselves others around us wont be and that too can be a battle.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

It sounds like we are on the same page here.

That's what I had thought too!

Heh, heh, the question wasn't really directed at you, but more so the previous post before you entered the discussion

Lol I should have known and for the rest of your post......
Amen!!
So Glad to read that.
Thank you Sir
Blessings
W4F

 

[KingJ]

Recently I have herd several discussions on whether you need to repent to be saved or not. I believe you do. And my thoughts are as follows.

We know certain types of people who will not enter into heaven Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Yet I know drunkards that believe in Christ , but according to the bible unless they stop being a drunkard (repent) they are not getting into heaven. So I would say repentance is necessary to be saved. that is the way I see it. But I will also say that we are still unworthy for heaven making it grace because no matter what we do we are not good enough. what are your thoughts???

Now the other line of thought that we do NOT need repentance seems to come from when Paul was braking out of jail and the Guard asked Paul what he must do to be saved and Paul said believe in Christ They replied,Acts 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household no mention of repenting.

I personally think if you truly believe it will cause you to repent and those that say they believe with out repenting do not truly believe they just want fire insurance.

Would love to here your thoughts on the subject

1 Cor 12:3 and James 4:8 shed light on the assumed difference between Acts 16:31 and Cor 6:10. Namely that believing Jesus is the Son of God / Lord (per Isaiah 9:6) is a revelation only possible by the Holy Spirit / God. One that is only given to those who sincerely repent. Even Peter with all his faith to walk on water needed this revelation to properly grasp and believe who Jesus was Matt 16:16-17.

The gospel from God to mankind from day one has been simply to repent. In the NT God is able to reveal Jesus as Lord to those that do. So it is correct to say 'unless you believe in Jesus as Lord' you will not be saved. It is also correct to say 'unless you repent you will not be saved'. The two go hand in hand. All who have truly repented and turned from sin will know Jesus as Lord. God scours the earth for those after His heart. We know this well from reading the OT.

This is a very important discussion to have. Because it shows clearly what Christians think of other religions. Only Christians are going to heaven because only Christians have truly repented. That imho is a profound statement that all need to hear despite how offended they may be by it. People are in dead religions because their repentance has never caught God's attention.

 

[Curtis]

Grace is a gift, but also is faith as God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son. (the Word of God). Faith only comes by way of the Word of God. Also, repentance comes only as God grants it to man. (2 Tim 2:25) Man,s only work is to accept these gifts of his own free will.

 

[B-A-C]

I wonder if that's repentance from sin... or simply repentance from unbelief? (the knowledge of the truth)

Heb 6:6; If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You can't repent of belief "again" unless you've already done it once.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Not only do we have to repent (change our minds about God and sin) but we also have to do the "works of repentance".

 

[KingJ]

I wonder if that's repentance from sin... or simply repentance from unbelief? (the knowledge of the truth)

Heb 6:6; If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

You can't repent of belief "again" unless you've already done it once.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Not only do we have to repent (change our minds about God and sin) but we also have to do the "works of repentance".

True repentance will always result in matching works. No point focusing on works side though as it can lead to confusion on works based salvation. The sinner on the cross went to heaven without any works of repentance.

Heb 6:6 needs to be read with a lot of other passages. Paul always spoke respectfully / as though all are saved to the congregation. He knew whom were not, but he could not say '''Pete and Steve will fall away because your repentance was a joke''. So he says it indirectly / as the verse shows us. A true Christian cannot lose salvation. God does not make mistakes / enter eternal life with devils.

 

[B-A-C]

A true Christian cannot lose salvation. God does not make mistakes / enter eternal life with devils.

A doctrine unsupported by the Bible. God doesn't make mistakes, but we sure do.

 

[Lanolin]

True repentance will always result in matching works. No point focusing on works side though as it can lead to confusion on works based salvation. The sinner on the cross went to heaven without any works of repentance.

Heb 6:6 needs to be read with a lot of other passages. Paul always spoke respectfully / as though all are saved to the congregation. He knew whom were not, but he could not say '''Pete and Steve will fall away because your repentance was a joke''. So he says it indirectly / as the verse shows us. A true Christian cannot lose salvation. God does not make mistakes / enter eternal life with devils.

Who is to say that the sinner on the cross made no works of repentence? His heart believed. When people are crucified yes they may be guilty of the crimes they commited and still need to pay the price, just like when i have to still pay a fine if I speed..I cannot just say i wont speed again so let me off. I still had to pay that fine. We dont know if that thief made restitution before he was nailed to the cross. He was convicted thats all and people still label him a criminal for the rest of his life, but its clear he did repent.

 

[Lanolin]

He stopped stealing didnt he?

Also OT law says if you still something you have to give back seven times what you stole If I remember rightly. Maybe he stole so much that he coulndt afford to pay it all back so accepted that sentence.

 

[KingJ]

A doctrine unsupported by the Bible.

God making mistakes is unsupported 1 Tim 4:4.

God doesn't make mistakes, but we sure do.

Since salvation is 100% God's doing Eph 2:9, you actually are implying He is making a mistake.

 

[KingJ]

Who is to say that the sinner on the cross made no works of repentence?

He stopped stealing didnt he?

There is no ''who is to say'', as he was nailed to a cross. God could judge His heart. We know he passed God's judgement, so we can safely assume he would not have been involved in any mortal sin type theft.


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