with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

[At Peace]

A truly saved Christian cannot have sin that produces death. But we know we all do rebel and ''sin''.
.

The first part is correct, so the second part must be false.
Either that, or there are no "truly saved Christians".
Fact is, there have been men on earth since the time of Christ's resurrection who do not commit sin.
Thanks be to God!

 

[KingJ]

Disobedience !!
Yep its that simple, they were created to serve and to be obedient unto God.

There is no Grace for them nor is there a Saviour unto them.
They were created as servants.

Makes you glad we were created as man and have Grace.

If it's the how did they disobey if they were created beings to serve thing....
Its the free will thing all over.
God did not create them to choose but to obey BUT He does not create robots or puppets.

Without Grace from the Love of God, man would have totally been destroyed a long time ago.

Blessings
W4F

I don't believe they were created to serve. I don't believe God creates anything to serve Him. If one does not serve from free will, the boss is called a tyrant.

Angels were created above us. They probably didn't need the whole flesh and earth experience to make their intentions to hate or love what is evil known.

We can't say there is no Savior for them in context to assume God is partial to us. God deals with them differently for reasons we can't yet fully grasp. God loves every angel just as much as He loves us. If He thought the fallen angels would repent He would lay His life down for them. I firmly believe that.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I don't believe they were created to serve. I don't believe God creates anything to serve Him. If one does not serve from free will, the boss is called a tyrant.

Angels were created above us. They probably didn't need the whole flesh and earth experience to make their intentions to hate or love what is evil known.

We can't say there is no Savior for them in context to assume God is partial to us. God deals with them differently for reasons we can't yet fully grasp. God loves every angel just as much as He loves us. If He thought the fallen angels would repent He would lay His life down for them. I firmly believe that.

Psalm 103:20
20 Bless the Lord, you mighty angels of his who carry out his orders, listening for each of his commands.

Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Hebrews 1:7
7 God speaks of his angels as messengers swift as the wind and as servants made of flaming fire

Has you ever heard of a sacrifice for angels? NO !!
Did Jesus die on the cross for man or man and angels? JUST MAN !!

We are lower then angels for a short time. We don't stay that way.

There is No Redemption for satin or any other rebellious angel .
They have no tempter nor do they have a Saviour.

Blessings
W4F

 

[Dave M]

there are angels that are created to call God Holly Holly 24 / 7 according to I think they are angels

Revelation 4:8
And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

 

[KingJ]

Psalm 103:20
1. 20 Bless the Lord, you mighty angels of his who carry out his orders, listening for each of his commands.

Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Hebrews 1:7
7 God speaks of his angels as messengers swift as the wind and as servants made of flaming fire

2. Has you ever heard of a sacrifice for angels? NO !!
Did Jesus die on the cross for man or man and angels? JUST MAN !!

3. We are lower then angels for a short time. We don't stay that way.

4. There is No Redemption for satin or any other rebellious angel .
They have no tempter nor do they have a Saviour.

Blessings
W4F

Jim what you are saying sounds terrible. I know you mean well, but I wish you could read what you have written as an outsider would :wink:.


1. We need to apply our minds further to the fact that there are ranks among angels. Not all choose to serve or are as committed as others. We must always draw our conclusions of the vastly unknown future and spiritual realm based off of the bible's definitions of God. God is good. He is not a tyrant of any sort.

2. This does not mean He would not have died for them if He saw it was necessary / thought for one second fallen angels would repent.

3. I believe you are confusing rank and creation. We are created below them. We are forever the 'human' race. We don't suddenly become greater then angels. Whether we will take or give orders to them is not for us to say. What is clear is that we reign with Jesus. It is going to be quite an interesting society, humans and angels.

4. Every creation with high intelligence can choose to love or hate sin. No tempter needed. Adam and Eve would have sinned without the devil. Again, we must not for one second state that God would not die for them if He thought they would repent.

 

[At Peace]

We are created below them. We are forever the 'human' race. We don't suddenly become greater then angels. .

Perhaps you could explain 1 Cor 6:3 with that in mind?
'Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I don't believe they were created to serve. I don't believe God creates anything to serve Him. If one does not serve from free will, the boss is called a tyrant.

We can't say there is no Savior for them in context to assume God is partial to us. God deals with them differently for reasons we can't yet fully grasp. God loves every angel just as much as He loves us. If He thought the fallen angels would repent He would lay His life down for them. I firmly believe that

Brother perhaps you might re-think what you are believing here.

There is No Redemption for any fallen (Rebellious and Disobedient) angel or created servant.

By saying there is then you are placing hope satan can be saved and that's so false.

Human Beings have Grace and Redemption.

Angels have not.
They either obey or they don't and if they don't they are cast out. It's just that simple.
Blessings

 

[KingJ]

Perhaps you could explain 1 Cor 6:3 with that in mind?
'Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"

This does not make us a greater creation.

 

[KingJ]

Brother perhaps you might re-think what you are believing here.

There is No Redemption for any fallen (Rebellious and Disobedient) angel or created servant.

By saying there is then you are placing hope satan can be saved and that's so false.

Human Beings have Grace and Redemption.

Angels have not.
They either obey or they don't and if they don't they are cast out. It's just that simple.
Blessings

You are not reading what I am writing. I did not say there is redemption for the angels. I am saying, if God saw the fallen would repent, He would have made a plan for them. God 101 = God is good.

When eternal separation is the consequence of disobedience you can sure bet God ensured / s all humans and angels have free and with varying scales on both ends of what is good and evil.

God made pets to take orders and serve. Not angels. That they obey is a separate issue to them being created to serve.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

God made pets to take orders and serve. Not angels. That they obey is a separate issue to them being created to serve.

So with what scriptures do you a rive at this conclusion?

You are not reading what I am writing. I did not say there is redemption for the angels. I am saying, if God saw the fallen would repent, He would have made a plan for

You said. .....We can't say there is no Savior for them in context to assume God is partial to us.

If there was a Saviour there would be redemption.
That's apparently where we are stuck.
Lol or missing the others point.

Tell ya what my friend, when this is all said and done and we are home with the Father, I will ask to be directed where you are and stop by and introduce myself and we can go down by the river of life and sit under a tree and think back on our thinking and get a good laugh. ...

Its the best I can do my brother.
Blessings
W4F

 

[KingJ]

So with what scriptures do you a rive at this conclusion?

Psalm 136:1 Give thanks because God is good.

Creating a highly intelligent creation to serve like a robot or a pet, is evil. Angels and humans are not pets. It seems you are implying that when you talk about angels. As though we are blessed to have a Savior and they are not. God loves us more / or we are more important. This is all crazy talk.

You said. .....We can't say there is no Savior for them in context to assume God is partial to us.

If there was a Saviour there would be redemption.

Agreed. We just need to agree on the fact that there is no Savior because God does not foresee any redemption / IE any fallen angel wanting to sincerely repent. Not because He is partial to us.

I feel you are not properly reading what you writing. I know you don't believe God is partial :wink:.

 

[At Peace]

This does not make us a greater creation.

As we won't be "merely" humans at the time of judgement, it really doesn't matter what we are now.
In fact, the reborn are already sons of God.
How do you rank them with regards to angels?

Frankly, I think any comparison of men and angels is like ranking apples and oranges.

 

[KingJ]

1. As we won't be "merely" humans at the time of judgement, it really doesn't matter what we are now.
In fact, the reborn are already sons of God.
2. How do you rank them with regards to angels?

3. Frankly, I think any comparison of men and angels is like ranking apples and oranges.

1. We are forever humans. Humans are body, mind and spirit. God made us with eternity and adoption in mind when He created us.
2. We can't generalize a rank. There will be humans at differing ranks and then angels too. Ideally all angels in heaven have passed an acid test / threshold requirement in their dedication to God. We are no ''better'' then them. There will be those humans that are saved by the skin of their teeth 1 Pet 4:18 and then those like the 11 disciples that sailed in to heaven. I think only some will qualify to judge angels.
3. I disagree. God, us and angels are all oranges of sort. Gen 3:22 The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Humans becoming 'like one of them' was inevitable. So we were created to be like 'one of them'. We are created just beneath an angel Heb 2:7. Not 'far' beneath. ''Just'' beneath. The only difference is likely only something like wings and a slightly higher intelligence. I do believe this higher intelligence is why their intentions to serve and love God / hating what is evil Rom 12:9 is so clear. There is no need for an earth experience or a Savior from sin.

 

[Braveheart]

The law of the spirit of life in christ Jesus

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

John 8:12-30)



5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Young's Literal Translation
every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten

We should not sin but if we do sin....

 

[Braveheart]

Walking in the light

12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life

 

[At Peace]

1. We are forever humans. Humans are body, mind and spirit. God made us with eternity and adoption in mind when He created us.
2. We can't generalize a rank. There will be humans at differing ranks and then angels too. Ideally all angels in heaven have passed an acid test / threshold requirement in their dedication to God. We are no ''better'' then them. There will be those humans that are saved by the skin of their teeth 1 Pet 4:18 and then those like the 11 disciples that sailed in to heaven. I think only some will qualify to judge angels.
3. I disagree. God, us and angels are all oranges of sort. Gen 3:22 The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Humans becoming 'like one of them' was inevitable. So we were created to be like 'one of them'. We are created just beneath an angel Heb 2:7. Not 'far' beneath. ''Just'' beneath. The only difference is likely only something like wings and a slightly higher intelligence. I do believe this higher intelligence is why their intentions to serve and love God / hating what is evil Rom 12:9 is so clear. There is no need for an earth experience or a Savior from sin.

The "human" in me will either return to dust or be changed in the twinkling of the eye at Jesus' return.
The redeemed will have glorified vessels in which to move around.

Higher, equal to, or below angels doesn't matter to me.
We will all praise God with one accord...eventually.
And which angels did God make into His sons, like He did for us? (! John 3:1-2)

You think "us" are the angels?
I think "us" is the Father and the Word.
BTW, the exhortation of Rom 12:9 is for us: not the angels.

 

[KingJ]

1. The "human" in me will either return to dust or be changed in the twinkling of the eye at Jesus' return.
2. The redeemed will have glorified vessels in which to move around.

3. Higher, equal to, or below angels doesn't matter to me.
We will all praise God with one accord...eventually.
4. And which angels did God make into His sons, like He did for us? (! John 3:1-2)

5. You think "us" are the angels?
I think "us" is the Father and the Word.
6. BTW, the exhortation of Rom 12:9 is for us: not the angels.

1. The human in you? You were created a human. You don't suddenly become something else.
2. Yes. God created humans with the potential to receive glorified bodies. It is like a new case for a cell phone. It is not a new cell phone.
3. Agreed
4. He didn't need to, angels are greater creations who can better stick to their convictions. Humans needed a Savior.
5. Yes. Why wouldn't it be? You cant read the verse in isolation to the entire bible. Other scripture speaks of those who know good and evil. In that chapter we also see God speaking to the devil in vs 14.
6. Please explain how this does not apply to angels?

 

[At Peace]

1. The human in you? You were created a human. You don't suddenly become something else.

Don't you believe in rebirth?
The end of the old man and rebirth af a new creature?

2. Yes. God created humans with the potential to receive glorified bodies. It is like a new case for a cell phone. It is not a new cell phone.

Quite the contrary...It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

3. Agreed
4. He didn't need to, angels are greater creations who can better stick to their convictions. Humans needed a Savior.
5. Yes. Why wouldn't it be? You cant read the verse in isolation to the entire bible. Other scripture speaks of those who know good and evil. In that chapter we also see God speaking to the devil in vs 14.
6. Please explain how this does not apply to angels?

I feel you are mistaken to be ranking one servant of God above another.

You're not a worshiper of angels, are you?

 

[Dave M]

at Peice


Psalm 8:5
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

 

[KingJ]

Quite the contrary...It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

Peace, you are just not getting it. I guess I will not meet you in heaven. You will be someone else and look completely different :wink:.

I feel you are mistaken to be ranking one servant of God above another.

Completely agree.

You're not a worshiper of angels, are you?

You are dodging my question and sinning Titus 3:2.