Church and why I don't go.

[Christ4Ever]

Church is not a building or denomination ,,, Jesus preached on a mountain and i don't belive all the attendees were of the same denomiation. Sometimes the Bible just makes sense not contravercies

Hello therealletruth,

I agree. We who believe in Him as the Resurrected Christ are but parts of a greater whole of that church. Connected to each other through Him, by Him, and for Him. It's the same as is written "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." I've had church in a parking lot with two others, while clouds of rain waited to poor down upon us and it didn't matter to us, and it was more glorious than when I've been in a Sanctuary surrounded by hundreds! I've also been in a building church with hundreds and could feel the Holy Spirit moving through us, making us one in Worship as well!!!!

If you seek fault, you will find it. I heard once that if one in seeking the perfect church were to find it. The moment we stepped through the doors, it would cease to be so. Since I believe the Body of Christ to be that Perfect Church, I don't believe we need to be concerned about stepping through such doors on this World. Unless it's somebodies kitchen table where we were to gather, or maybe even a parking lot or better yet a field upon a mountain.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[JesusIs4Me]

If Gods Word has Mistakes, or differences, opinions, maybies, Etc, Then there is no God, & if U still wanna believe in a God like that then U are a FOOL. For me (Ray) my God must be perfect . People always tell me that there are mistakes in the KJV Bible.... WRONG --!!. There are only mistakes when U use those lying translations to compare ... Sorry Ya'll That's every other version... Gods Word can not have variations. I've found & stand by this! Gods Word the KJV stands on its own NO MISTAKES Cover 2 Cover. Should U find 1 show me PLEASE . My God & His Word has 2 be PERFECT , if not then what makes him a God. There's 2 many TOY CHRISTIANS & few real 1's (FEW). Thousands of denominations thousands of different preachers, obviously thousands of different Gods which they all claim is the same 1,,, None of them can get along down here but once we're all in heaven then all will be OK. My ? is whose God is going 2 be in Charge? The Baptists , Menonites , Pentecostals , Catholics,,,ETE ETC ETC & ETC... I always like a little humor in saying things . I say when I get called to Paradise, I'm going to see a lot of empty realestate there . & Gods going 2 tell me it was just unclaimed Have any ???s for me please feel free 2 ask me Ray ,, U don't have 2 like my answers , If your a hard core denominationalist U won't Tiz ok. therealletruth@gmail.com

I am not sure why you are ripping into FinalPrime like that unless you are carrying on from another discussion in another thread, but if you consider the 7 churches in Revelation where 5 were in need of repentance and two were exhorted to hold fast, I would say that Jesus is Lord over all of them, even with the churches that have gone astray, but in regards to any church or any believer being in unrepentant iniquity or works that deny Him, that is why God will judge them to be excommunicated and thus disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven only to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation since He cannot lose any whom the Father has given Him. John 6:39-40.

I do rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil by in these latter days. It is bad enough that there are anti-KJV bigots out there that has grown from KJVOnlyism , but since it is on God to cause the increase, we cannot respond in kind to those that are fueled in hatred for why we rely only on the KJV. I certainly can thank the Lord for leading me away from the NASB & the NIV when it was sowing doubts in my walk with Him whereas the KJV has the correct translation and thus keeping the truth in scripture aligned with the rest of scripture in that KJV Bible. Modern Bibles cannot say the same when it comes to the truth in John 16:13 where in that same modern Bible, John 16:13 proves that Romans 8:26-27 has been translated in error thereby removing the lines of discernment kept in the KJV that the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His own intercessions out loud.

Thus tongues gained by what they believe was the Holy Spirit apart from salvation... was not the real indwelling Holy Spirit for why that tongues is coming without interpretation because it never was a stand alone gift for private use. 1 Corinthians 12:7-13 & 1 Corinthians 14:20-21

1 Corinthians 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I respect your right to decide on your own
Colossians 2:16-17

and not looking to argue, just want to point out why I do to church is all. first and foremost its to worship God the almighty and that is very important and yes can be done in many settings,


because Jesus says those that love him will keep his commandments
John 14:15

the 10 commandments given by God say to keep the sabbath right along side do not to murder so I choose to try my best to keep all 10 commandments not just the ones I like or dont like, I know we are not under law but grace I do this because I want to please my father in heaven more then anything else, not because I have to

the sabbath was made for us from God so at least I could do is partake in it, its really a privilege to be able to honor the sabbath
Mark 2:27

but make no mistake I pass no judgement on anyone who does not agree with my thoughts I hope you dont pass judgement on me.
Colossians 2:16-17


For me I am fortunate to have a loving church that encourages and helps re charge me for the week that is ahead, I know they are few of them out there now a days


One thing that we all have to understand is no church is going to be perfect since it is made up of men, we all have our faults.

also one final not did not Jesus honor the sabbath when the pharisees were doing the teaching,

You are free to honor the Lord on the sabbath day, but do not seek justification or salvation by keeping the sabbath day, otherwise, you are denying Jesus as Saviour if you are still looking to keep the sabbath day in order to be saved.

I don't know if you believe in that way since you are not judging any one for not keeping the sabbath day which is good, because Jesus said in Matthew 12:1-7 why and how all believers are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day, but citing necessity to keep the sabbath day per the Ten Commandments as if under the Old Covenant, I had to say that in case you were doing so in seeking justification from the law by keeping the sabbath day, and thereby denying you had been saved by Jesus Christ. In representing the New Covenant, not that the commandment to keep the sabbath day has been abolished or anything, because it was not, BUT BECAUSE Jesus Christ is in you by faith is why you are guiltless for profaning it. It is His righteousness apart from the law is why you are guiltless with Him being in you. That is our faith; that is His glory and why Jesus is Lord of the sabbath.

So it is best to not refer to the "Ten Commandments" at all when honoring the Lord on the sabbath day so that those who look to keeping the Ten Commandments are not also looking to avoid sinning against the Lord when they cannot since they are guiltless for profabing the sabbath day when Jesus Christ is in them always.


Again, you can honor the Lord on the sabbath day or any day of the week, but even if you do not honor the Lord that day, you are guiltless because of Jesus Christ being in you and your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; hence you are saved.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I don't know what your problem is But your absolutly RIGHT ... I have a ? 4 all the Christians .... Can Any1 please introduce me to an HONEST PREACHER...? I've talked to many & have not yet found 1. All I've asked Crhistians That is . THEY'RE ALL JUST TOY CHRISTIANS . ... Many are called Few are chosen ,,,,,However Every Christian Says that they are the chosen . Luke 13:27 ,,, Gotta mean something... Like I said . I do not know what your problem is ... but if you ever do find that honest preacher PLEEEEEASE Introduce me 2 Him or Her. & that goes for every1 that reads this... ((( HONEST ))) that WORD is a KILLER I have Skype or a phone as well ... Glad 2 have met you , I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR A PERSON OR A POST LIKE YOUR'S . I'LL even read ALL of your emails. Hey don't believe what they tell U make 'em PROVE it 2 BE TRUE,,,,,This makes me look like a meanieeeee ,,, BUT IZA NICE man REALLE, @ least me & Jesus get along Just Fine ... ((( JESUS , Me . & the Christians , Well So Far it's just The 2 of us MAYBE 3 NOW...

I had replied to you out of order. Sorry about that. Not sure how I missed all these other posts either. I will probably find the post from FinalPrime for why you seem to be ripping into him about whatever his stance is against the KJV. Sorry.

I agree with you as far as churches goes because it does look like Jesus Christ is the only One to go to in being our Good Shepherd. When churches are set in their ways and with diminishing numbers, even christian forums are showing the signs, it is hard to get a "reformation" when they are using modern Bibles that do not align the truths in all the scripture in that modern Bible, no pastor nor church would be willing to risk losing more members because of it. It will be very hard to get every one to speak the same thing and have the same judgment when all Bibles are not saying the same thing.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Believing in Him, even in His name, is all a sinner needs to be saved.

However, abiding in Him and His words is how a saved believer is His disciple in bearing fruit so that their joy may be full as they will be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

That is why the call to depart from iniquity includes former believers and not just carnal believers ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) so that they may look to the author & finisher of our faith to help them lay aside every weight & sin ( Hebrews 12:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ) so they can run that race for the high prize of our calling in being received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven and not be workers of iniquity in being left behind. Matthew 7:21-27 & Luke 13:24-30

Believing in Jesus Christ has that foundation in all believers which was laid by Jesus Christ. It is the works on that foundation that shall be judged; 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 but there is no loss of salvation 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 .

A lot of believers have been called, and thus reconciled with God and thus saved by Jesus Christ, but few are chosen as found abiding in Him as His disciples in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd.

That means any believer out there that has sown to the flesh in reaping corruption and found themselves wanting to die for teh choices you have made, while there is still breath, call on Jesus Christ today to save you from your sins, to put away all provisions for the flesh that fulfills the lust thereof, and to pray for His help in casting down wicked imaginations to think on good things along with setting our hearts on the things above and not of the earth.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure..... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Oh Yeah I was a born aaagain Pentecostle from U might as well say from the start , over 50 years ... Then I asked a ? & ??s &???s & never got any honest answers .... NOT 1 So I found them out 4 myself... Now I'm considerd a RELIGIOUS FANATIC , by all . Unlike them I ask ?s There answer is I don't know. However I didn't ask because I didn't know , I already Know the answers to my ?s . I got them from my KJV . Again Y can't they answer my ?s ... Because it goes against what they've been preaching and what they've been told to say. Iv'e asked Preachers this ? as well as others ---- Y do U LIE, Answer. I get paid 2 teach what I'm told to preach & I'm not looking 2 be unemployed... No I didn't just make that up...

Remember this guideline in ministry.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.............14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

I do need the Lord's help to know when to let go.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I once wrote this concerning the need to define what church was according to Scripture. Was/Is it a denomination, or maybe a place where people came together, in other words to assemble, or could it be that the Church is actually the people?

The following is something put together not too long ago in a discussion I was having with someone who is Catholic and believes there's the only one true church. In looking at this subject, it became apparent that church in scripture is identified specific to locations, but more importantly to a body of believers at said locations. Even Revelations in the letters to the churches (multiple) deals with the behaviors of the congregations, not one shoe fits all as is the inclination with most denominations. The church I currently attend, never did answer this question when posed to them View attachment 416So through reading and praying the conclusion to me is that there is a Universal Church (My term only.), but not one which has ceilings, walls, or any worldly attributes we look to infuse in it.

My suggestion, if one is looking for one, is to seek one that is founded, and adheres to the Holy Bible, is willing to answer questions put before them, one that prays, does and not just talks about the Great Commission, in charity, service and exhibits the Love that God has shown us through His Son Jesus, to a lost and dying world.

I pray that this post may be for the edification and not a hindrance to anyone. In the name of Jesus Christ I ask this Amen.
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I have to first start defining certain words so we can see if we’re actually using the same Dictionary. It’s easy to use the same words, but as I’m coming to find out is that at times we are using different dictionaries, which might create difficulty in understanding each other. I hope you don’t mind that I tackle it in this fashion. I will attempt in every case to identify scripture or the lack of scriptural reference. Lord willing within the context of what God would have us comprehend we will find His truth.

Church
First one must define church as used in scripture. Easy to automatically provide the definition from our current perspective of what a church must be. Many people today understand the church as a building or denomination. This is not a complete biblical understanding of church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. The following verse I used to show Paul addressing "the church" as a body of believers and not a building/denomination. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

I agree that the church is a assembly of believers that come together for worship & study in the word & prayer for one another; and not a specific place. I believe that was the message Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well.

How does one come to this? First one must see who the Creator of the Church is.

Jesus Christ Co-Creator
You can see this clearly that the church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head in the following scripture reading.

Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

This truth above in quote is inconsistent in making the Holy Spirit Co Creator of the church below.

Holy Spirit Co-Creator

Keep in mind as well that the Holy Spirit was co-creator of the church.

Given the scripture that testifies the role of the Holy Spirit is to give ALL the credit and ALL glory to Jesus Christ for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 ), the words He speaks, ( John 16:13-15 * note verse 14 ) the fruits of the Spirit ( Philippians 1:11 ) & also the gift of the Spirit ALL comes from Jesus Christ, then the scripture and the Holy Spirit in you would lead you to not share the glory of the Creator of the Church with the Holy Spirit at all.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Where is this "...habitation of God through the Spirit."?

Body of Christ
The phrase “the Body of Christ” is a common New Testament metaphor for the Church (all those who are truly saved).

Romans 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 10:17 For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Hebrews 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Ephesians 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (4) [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

Our need to name things I believe is a Godly direction, that goes all the way back to Genesis. So in this light, for lack of giving the church a specific name or one so general as just "church" which might not be so bad as long as we know the builder and who resides there, I'll add one.

Universal Church
The universal church consists of all believers in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or - Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, [23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

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One consistency I've seen which crosses all denominations, languages, race, what have you, of believers and that is Jesus Christ. That He lived, died on the Cross, and He has Risen! I seen this to be true, just by mentioning His name, to a couple who did not know English, so were distrustful of me, didn't understand a word I was saying, until I said "Jesus Christ", pointed up with my finger and tapped my heart. The biggest similes you could imagine lit up their faces! Truly One Body! Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia! As I mentioned when I first started, I pray this does not become a hindrance to anyone.
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With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

The consistency I have seen is red tape from addressing any church issues involving confronting a long term practice to discern by the KJV with Jesus Christ at that throne of grace, whether or not that it is actually a work of iniquity.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@JesusIs4Me

Todays churches......

Ear tickling, Man pleasing, Feel good (false) salvation.

The true message of the Gospel and the true ministry of His word to believers has been lost in almost every church I have attended.

For ever, O LORD, Thy word is settled in heaven
Psalm 119:89

 

[Dave M]

So it is best to not refer to the "Ten Commandments" at all when honoring the Lord on the sabbath day

I dont understand what you are even saying because it comes out as YOU WANT ME TO IGNORE SCRIPTURE, let me be very clear to you. I obey the 10 commandments to the best of my ability because I love my heavenly father with all my heart might and soul and I know this please him, I know I fail sometime I know Grace is what gets me into heaven BECAUSE OF JESUS. God grace makes me want to be obedient and well disciplined for him ALTHOUGH i FAIL i TRY MY BEST AND GET BETTER ALL THE TIME, I know I could never earn my way to heaven.

BLESS YOU

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me

Todays churches......

Ear tickling, Man pleasing, Feel good (false) salvation.

The true message of the Gospel and the true ministry of His word to believers has been lost in almost every church I have attended.

For ever, O LORD, Thy word is settled in heaven
Psalm 119:89

The gospel of Jesus Christ is simple and easy so little children are free to come to Him to believe in Him to be saved because all they can do is trust the Lord.

Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once that foundation has been laid, saved believers should be learning of Him and all His promises to us in how to abide in Him and His words by trusting Him as their Good Shepherd to help them to do that.

It is discipleship by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lays aside every weight & sin is what running that race is all about for the high prize of our calling in obtaining the "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus by being received by the Bridegroom to attend the Marriage Supper in His honor & His glory.

So salvation is a free gift to all those that believe in Him, but discipleship is about running that race to abide in Him and His words to be fruitful, and that our joy may be full when the Bridegroom comes. To run that race for salvation is denying Him that He has saved you when you had come to & believed in Him and thus running that race in vain.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

So do run that race by faith in Him as a saved believer as we seek to obtain the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House as we look unto Him to help us run that race as only He can finish it for us.

 

[Christ4Ever]

You are free to honor the Lord on the sabbath day, but do not seek justification or salvation by keeping the sabbath day, otherwise, you are denying Jesus as Saviour if you are still looking to keep the sabbath day in order to be saved.

Amen!

This truth above in quote is inconsistent in making the Holy Spirit Co Creator of the church below.

Given the scripture that testifies the role of the Holy Spirit is to give ALL the credit and ALL glory to Jesus Christ for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 ), the words He speaks, ( John 16:13-15 * note verse 14 ) the fruits of the Spirit ( Philippians 1:11 ) & also the gift of the Spirit ALL comes from Jesus Christ, then the scripture and the Holy Spirit in you would lead you to not share the glory of the Creator of the Church with the Holy Spirit at all.

However, in truth I wanted to keep all the bases covered to include the Holy Spirit's part in the establishment of the Church. Unless, you without the actions of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Acts 20:28, believe He was of no importance to the establishment of the Church, and me identifying Him as Co-Creator is somehow taking away from the Glory of God?

So, I have a question for you dear brother. With all tenderness and Love.

Are we as the Body of Christ the Church?

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

Since the discussion was church. I came across a video and was able to find in on youtube so I could share it with you all.

Interesting Preacher if you ask me

Together we are stronger Brothers & Sisters!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I dont understand what you are even saying because it comes out as YOU WANT ME TO IGNORE SCRIPTURE, let me be very clear to you. I obey the 10 commandments to the best of my ability because I love my heavenly father with all my heart might and soul and I know this please him, I know I fail sometime I know Grace is what gets me into heaven BECAUSE OF JESUS. God grace makes me want to be obedient and well disciplined for him ALTHOUGH i FAIL i TRY MY BEST AND GET BETTER ALL THE TIME, I know I could never earn my way to heaven.

BLESS YOU

If you do not see why you are guiltless for profaning the sabbath below... then you are the one ignoring scripture.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

That is why in none of the epistle to the churches, was there any reminder of keeping the sabbath day nor any warning to the consequences for not keeping the sabbath, because you are all guiltless for profaning the sabbath day because of Jesus Christ in you as your body is now the temple of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

If you still don't see what Jesus is talking about, then you better ask Him for help in seeing the truth in His words if you desire your relationship with Him to be good as in abiding in His words under the New Covenant rather than the Old..

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Amen!

However, in truth I wanted to keep all the bases covered to include the Holy Spirit's part in the establishment of the Church. Unless, you without the actions of the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Acts 20:28, believe He was of no importance to the establishment of the Church, and me identifying Him as Co-Creator is somehow taking away from the Glory of God?

There is no denying the work of the Holy Spirit in scripture, but even He would give the glory of the title to the Son since that is His job to do and the same goes for the scripture as well as for our witnesses as His disciples which is to testify of the Son in seeking His glory.

A lot of believers give credit to the Holy Spirit drawing sinners to the Lord but scripture places that credit to the Father; The Father draws men unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) and He reveals the Son to even babes while He can hide the truth from religious wise men of the world Matthew 11:25-27 The Father is the One that gives sinners to the Son to save and to keep saved ( John 6:38-40 )

Anyway... the Holy Spirit is active and led by the Lord Jesus Christ to speak and to minister, but the Holy Spirit would never share in the spotlight with the Son in sharing any glory because He would give all that glory to the Son.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Scripture testifies of this but many believers keep on glorifying the Holy Spirit, even in worship when the Spirit of God would never lead them to do that in worship as they can only honor the Father by honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It is that latter part of the verse is why many believers overlook that line of discernment as well as the Father's will that the moment they stop honoring the Son, they are not honoring the Father at all, thus that means excluding the Holy Spirit as another way to honor the Father by in worship that the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. had misled many churches to do in worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. John 5:23 leaves no leeway for that to be a practice and seeing how the Holy Spirit seek to testify of the Son to glorify the Son, the only way He can do that is through us and especially in worship.
.

So, I have a question for you dear brother. With all tenderness and Love.

Are we as the Body of Christ the Church?

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

All those who believe in Him, even in His name, including former believers, are of the body of Christ, but abiding in Him and in His words in the KJV as His disciples in running that race by faith in Him is another issue. Not every believer, ( and obviously every former believers ) let alone every church, will be ready for Him when the Bridegroom comes unless they repent by His grace & by His help before He has come.

 

[Christ4Ever]

There is no denying the work of the Holy Spirit in scripture, but even He would give the glory of the title to the Son since that is His job to do and the same goes for the scripture as well as for our witnesses as His disciples which is to testify of the Son in seeking His glory.

A lot of believers give credit to the Holy Spirit drawing sinners to the Lord but scripture places that credit to the Father; The Father draws men unto the Son ( John 6:44 ) and He reveals the Son to even babes while He can hide the truth from religious wise men of the world Matthew 11:25-27 The Father is the One that gives sinners to the Son to save and to keep saved ( John 6:38-40 )

Anyway... the Holy Spirit is active and led by the Lord Jesus Christ to speak and to minister, but the Holy Spirit would never share in the spotlight with the Son in sharing any glory because He would give all that glory to the Son.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Scripture testifies of this but many believers keep on glorifying the Holy Spirit, even in worship when the Spirit of God would never lead them to do that in worship as they can only honor the Father by honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

It is that latter part of the verse is why many believers overlook that line of discernment as well as the Father's will that the moment they stop honoring the Son, they are not honoring the Father at all, thus that means excluding the Holy Spirit as another way to honor the Father by in worship that the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. had misled many churches to do in worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. John 5:23 leaves no leeway for that to be a practice and seeing how the Holy Spirit seek to testify of the Son to glorify the Son, the only way He can do that is through us and especially in worship.
.


All those who believe in Him, even in His name, including former believers, are of the body of Christ, but abiding in Him and in His words in the KJV as His disciples in running that race by faith in Him is another issue. Not every believer, ( and obviously every former believers ) let alone every church, will be ready for Him when the Bridegroom comes unless they repent by His grace & by His help before He has come.

Clearly you are attributing more to my words than they were meant to have brother. To run afar with the subject of church is not and won't be my intent or purpose. That is why I asked but one simple question. Actually I asked a couple, but one that pertains specifically to what is church remains.

Is the Body of Christ the Church, with Christ as the Head? The Pope is not the head, preachers are not the head, or any head of any denomination you would care to name. Only Jesus (Colossians 1:18). That is why I asked the question as I did. For I'm not asking what constitutes/requirements are needed to be a part of the Body of Christ, only are those who are the Body of Christ the Church, Headed by Christ. We can even disagree with the Holy Spirit helping to Co-Create the Church. But the questions still remains.....

I'll leave it there. Otherwise it starts to go into diverging areas of thought as it pertains to Salvation or even denominationalism. I mean we could also move totally away from the subject at hand into what the limitations of the Holy Spirit are, or the Trinity. I have no issue if you disagree with that portion of what I put together as it pertains to the Holy Spirit. However, my question still stands. Either we are or we are not the Church.


With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Clearly you are attributing more to my words than they were meant to have brother. To run afar with the subject of church is not and won't be my intent or purpose. That is why I asked but one simple question. Actually I asked a couple, but one that pertains specifically to what is church remains.

Is the Body of Christ the Church, with Christ as the Head?

Yes. But the 7 Spirits as each Spirit is over each of the 7 churches in Revelation; and since we know there is only One Holy Spirit indwelling each believer, thus one body of believers which is the Church, it would stand to reasons that there will be diversity and yet 5 out of 7 have need of repentance... not all of the Church that is the Church are abiding in Him as they ought to in being submissive to the Head.

The Pope is not the head, preachers are not the head, or any head of any denomination you would care to name. Only Jesus (Colossians 1:18). That is why I asked the question as I did. For I'm not asking what constitutes/requirements are needed to be a part of the Body of Christ, only are those who are the Body of Christ the Church, Headed by Christ. We can even disagree with the Holy Spirit helping to Co-Create the Church. But the questions still remains.....

I agree that the Pope is not the head of the church just as I need to point out having an heirarchy or a Presbytery as an authority outside the local assembly is actually the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes which God hates, is neither that head either but Christ Jesus the Lord just as Christ is the head of every believer and so it is with that local assembly.

As for who we are.. we are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ; Galatians 3:26

I'll leave it there. Otherwise it starts to go into diverging areas of thought as it pertains to Salvation or even denominationalism. I mean we could also move totally away from the subject at hand into what the limitations of the Holy Spirit are, or the Trinity. I have no issue if you disagree with that portion of what I put together as it pertains to the Holy Spirit. However, my question still stands. Either we are or we are not the Church.
:smile:

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

We are the Church and each believer will answer for what they have built on that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) for why God will judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture. ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV )

My angst is that most churches are set in their ways and will not consider reformation with Him in these latter days where faith is hard to find, because they do not want to lose any more of their dwindling members than they are already.

But thank you for sharing.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Since the discussion was church. I came across a video and was able to find in on youtube so I could share it with you all.

Interesting Preacher if you ask me :smile:

Together we are stronger Brothers & Sisters!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Kind of reminds me of Luke 14:15-24 where those invited were making excuses not to come to the King's Supper for the everyday cares of life and so they sent word out to the highways and by ways for saved believers to come... and there was still room.

 

[Scripture Nomad]

I do not go to church.

I fail to see why the Lord would lead me back to these forums when everybody agrees that not all Bible versions are saying the same thing and the majority of them are just bigots when relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil by in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

So when antiKJVers would like to argue for errant Bible versions that causes many to fall away from the faith and strengthen them in their wickedness, by noting in the KJV of what they call errors as if any one is being led astray by what they call errors, there is no defending the faith in forums and in churches; at least in forums you can post the concern and hope God causes the increase, but in church? There is no time given to express concerns and many pastors are career minded not to allow anyone to make waves or lose members and affect the bottom line of the church revenues and his income, his pension, and any other benefits.

What is the major apostasy today that modern Bible versions are supporting? The apostate calling that you can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation "again" by the sign of tongues and because that tongue comes with no interpretation, they assume it is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit. So in spite of the truth in ALL Bibles, John 16:13 testify that the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to speak for Himself in uttering His own intercessions out loud, but the majority of modern Bible versions of Romans 8:26-27 implies otherwise whereas the KJV maintains the truth of John 16:13 by citing that not even His groanings can be uttered; hence no sound at all. Even some modern Bibles commit a grammatical error by switching out the "he" at the conclusion of verse 27 with "the Spirit" when that "he" is the One separate from us in searching our hearts and thus separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of, and so that "he" cannot be the Spirit in the conclusion of that verse. The identity of that "he" is the Son as He is the One that searches our hearts as confirmed in Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV as He is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit which is in according to the will of God BECAUSE there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5 This is confirmed by knowing how the divine prayer system is set up where Jesus is at that throne of grace as the Lamb of God by Whom we have access to God the Father by where He searches our hearts to give the Father His own intercessions and not just ours, and knows the mind of the Spirit to give His silent intercessions to the Father so that when the Father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers in John 14:13-14 KJV

But because of Romans 8:26-27 in most modern Bibles, believers gloss over His words in John 16:13 as if Jesus did not really meant that and so they believe tongues can be used for private use and they believe believers can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by that sign of tongues even though Paul said tongues were never supposed to serve as a sign towards the believers for anything in seeking after ...after they had been saved. 1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV

And although modern day tongue speakers speak against "holy laughter" and "slain in the spirit" as not of the Lord, if they try to stop it as it is happening in that assembly, they run the risk of falling to it because they have that same mentality of opening themselves up to being refilled by the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, and that is why God permitted them to suffer that strong delusion for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 while Paul reminded them of the tradition taught of us to not follow after them in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

Most churches today continues to ignore the test for the spirit of the antichrist which is any spirit felt outside of us in the worship place, no matter how pleasant, is not the Holy Spirit because He dwells in us since our salvation at the calling of the gospel. 1 John 4:1-4 KJV & John 14:16-17 KJV & Ephesians 1:11-15 KJV

That KJV is defending the faith in Jesus Christ. Modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 makes believers doubt Jesus meant what He has said about how the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself but speak only what He hears in John 16:13 and so they do not see the error of Romans 8:26-27 in that modern Bible they are using and thereby cannot see all the other reproofs for disregarding any one preaching to receive Jesus or the Holy Spirt again in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 KJV

But by knocking down the KJV for keeping the truth in His words in Romans 8:26-27 KJV , they make a big deal over something else that hardly has been known to cause any one to go astray by.

I know it is on God to cause the increase, but when everybody has that mind set to NOT rely on one Bible version, but to use many versions to figure out the truth in His words or message, they refuse to believe God can give them wisdom to figure out the truth in His words as kept in lining up with all the other truths in the KJV as proving the KJV is the one to rely on for the meat of His words in keeping the faith which is the good fight. I shall see if He is ministering to any one, but the message is not KJVO onlyism.. The message is keeping the faith which is the good fight in these latter days by relying only on Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to see why you need to rely only on the KJV for the actual meat of His words to discern good & evil by...…….. because only a few are finding that truth in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

Romans 8:26-27 KJV is a promise for all believers; it is not meant for some special elite Christians that use tongues privately and Matthew 6:7-8 KJV is proof why tongues are not needed for how the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer. BUT no antiKJVer is going to see that unless God intervenes and show him the truth in His words in John 16:13 as kept in ALL Bible versions that the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues for uttering His prayers. Period.
Thus that other phenomenon where believers think they are receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.... it was not the Holy Spirit at all, but the spirit of the antichrist. …. seducing spirits seeking an audience with believers with signs of confusion which God is not the author of 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 KJV.

I believe churches need to narrow the way in worship in coming to God the Father by and that is by the only way of the Son ( Matthew 7:13-14 KJV & Luke 13:24 KJV ). So believe Jesus when He says this; John 14:6 KJV The only way to honor the Father in worship is to honor the Son stated in John 5:22-23 KJV When you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer being led by the Holy Spirit, but by man made traditions, because by not honoring the Son, you have stopped honoring the Father.

 

[Scripture Nomad]

I do not go to church.

I fail to see why the Lord would lead me back to these forums when everybody agrees that not all Bible versions are saying the same thing and the majority of them are just bigots when relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil by in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

So when antiKJVers would like to argue for errant Bible versions that causes many to fall away from the faith and strengthen them in their wickedness, by noting in the KJV of what they call errors as if any one is being led astray by what they call errors, there is no defending the faith in forums and in churches; at least in forums you can post the concern and hope God causes the increase, but in church? There is no time given to express concerns and many pastors are career minded not to allow anyone to make waves or lose members and affect the bottom line of the church revenues and his income, his pension, and any other benefits.

What is the major apostasy today that modern Bible versions are supporting? The apostate calling that you can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation "again" by the sign of tongues and because that tongue comes with no interpretation, they assume it is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit. So in spite of the truth in ALL Bibles, John 16:13 testify that the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to speak for Himself in uttering His own intercessions out loud, but the majority of modern Bible versions of Romans 8:26-27 implies otherwise whereas the KJV maintains the truth of John 16:13 by citing that not even His groanings can be uttered; hence no sound at all. Even some modern Bibles commit a grammatical error by switching out the "he" at the conclusion of verse 27 with "the Spirit" when that "he" is the One separate from us in searching our hearts and thus separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of, and so that "he" cannot be the Spirit in the conclusion of that verse. The identity of that "he" is the Son as He is the One that searches our hearts as confirmed in Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV as He is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit which is in according to the will of God BECAUSE there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5 This is confirmed by knowing how the divine prayer system is set up where Jesus is at that throne of grace as the Lamb of God by Whom we have access to God the Father by where He searches our hearts to give the Father His own intercessions and not just ours, and knows the mind of the Spirit to give His silent intercessions to the Father so that when the Father says "yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers in John 14:13-14 KJV

But because of Romans 8:26-27 in most modern Bibles, believers gloss over His words in John 16:13 as if Jesus did not really meant that and so they believe tongues can be used for private use and they believe believers can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by that sign of tongues even though Paul said tongues were never supposed to serve as a sign towards the believers for anything in seeking after ...after they had been saved. 1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV

And although modern day tongue speakers speak against "holy laughter" and "slain in the spirit" as not of the Lord, if they try to stop it as it is happening in that assembly, they run the risk of falling to it because they have that same mentality of opening themselves up to being refilled by the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, and that is why God permitted them to suffer that strong delusion for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 while Paul reminded them of the tradition taught of us to not follow after them in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

Most churches today continues to ignore the test for the spirit of the antichrist which is any spirit felt outside of us in the worship place, no matter how pleasant, is not the Holy Spirit because He dwells in us since our salvation at the calling of the gospel. 1 John 4:1-4 KJV & John 14:16-17 KJV & Ephesians 1:11-15 KJV

That KJV is defending the faith in Jesus Christ. Modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 makes believers doubt Jesus meant what He has said about how the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself but speak only what He hears in John 16:13 and so they do not see the error of Romans 8:26-27 in that modern Bible they are using and thereby cannot see all the other reproofs for disregarding any one preaching to receive Jesus or the Holy Spirt again in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 KJV

But by knocking down the KJV for keeping the truth in His words in Romans 8:26-27 KJV , they make a big deal over something else that hardly has been known to cause any one to go astray by.

I know it is on God to cause the increase, but when everybody has that mind set to NOT rely on one Bible version, but to use many versions to figure out the truth in His words or message, they refuse to believe God can give them wisdom to figure out the truth in His words as kept in lining up with all the other truths in the KJV as proving the KJV is the one to rely on for the meat of His words in keeping the faith which is the good fight. I shall see if He is ministering to any one, but the message is not KJVO onlyism.. The message is keeping the faith which is the good fight in these latter days by relying only on Jesus Christ as your personal Good Shepherd to see why you need to rely only on the KJV for the actual meat of His words to discern good & evil by...…….. because only a few are finding that truth in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

Romans 8:26-27 KJV is a promise for all believers; it is not meant for some special elite Christians that use tongues privately and Matthew 6:7-8 KJV is proof why tongues are not needed for how the Father knows everything before we ask in prayer. BUT no antiKJVer is going to see that unless God intervenes and show him the truth in His words in John 16:13 as kept in ALL Bible versions that the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues for uttering His prayers. Period.
Thus that other phenomenon where believers think they are receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.... it was not the Holy Spirit at all, but the spirit of the antichrist. …. seducing spirits seeking an audience with believers with signs of confusion which God is not the author of 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 KJV.

I believe churches need to narrow the way in worship in coming to God the Father by and that is by the only way of the Son ( Matthew 7:13-14 KJV & Luke 13:24 KJV ). So believe Jesus when He says this; John 14:6 KJV The only way to honor the Father in worship is to honor the Son stated in John 5:22-23 KJV When you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer being led by the Holy Spirit, but by man made traditions, because by not honoring the Son, you have stopped honoring the Father.

I am confused. You quote scripture warning about being misled by "man made traditions" and yet you at the same time tout the King James Version...a man made tradition?!

 

[Dave M]

My local church is debt free and we have literally gave away millions of dollars last year to help advance the gospel of Jesus Christ in un-reached regions of the world. We are much stronger together then we apart.

I understand that in some areas there are not churches that have this type of commitment to the gospel. But I hope that is not stopping anyone from teaming up with ministries and that are helping spread the gospel and helping orphans and the poor. I hope you are supporting such ministries even if you dont go to a local church because we are all part of one church of Chirst. And we are called to help the poor and spread the gospel