Can a true Christian sin or not?

[Dave M]

You of yourself and I myself cannot stop sinning period; that is impossible for us. It's not about our actions where sin is concerned but it's about what Jesus Christ "HAS DONE FOR US" on the cross.

Praise the Lord @regibassman57 I concur with you, who would of thought we were on the same page along I have never herd you word it like this before. I would like to add we do receive a new heart and no longer are enslaved to sin we now have the power to say no to sin.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,

I’m a little hesitant to give God the praise thinking it might be premature. I had to read your post over and over again to see if I was reading it correctly. I am rejoicing in the spirit because spiritual joy in Christ is not emotional joy as the joy of the world. Christ's Joy is very peaceful and restful but yet spiritually stimulating of mind with a peaceful chaser. I look at Jesus and praise Him; even if you only see a bit of the whole picture. I know as long as you see a little of the picture the rest will come completely into view. “TRUE, WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK?” I’ll tell you who knew; Jehovah God knew. This is the whole purpose of this forum which is proclaiming "LIFE."

 

[Dave M]

@regibassman57 you were given a new heart so you now hate sin, versus before whear you lived in sin and it did not bother you us, at least I was I hop you were also God bless

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,

Personally, I don’t hate sin because I was given a new heart, I hate sin because Jesus has taught me to renew my mind to understand "who" sin is as oppose to what my actions of sin were. I knew my actions were wrong when I did them. I see sin as Satan; a spiritual being trying to destroy me and who was using me as a puppet. This is how Paul saw Satan.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more “I” that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

When Paul said, it’s not him that is sinning (Paul knew God's Grace of not imputing sin) but it was sin (Satan) that dwelt in me Paul. Paul was talking the way God warned Cain concerning Satan.

Gen 4:7 If you do well, you will be accepted? and if you do not well, “sin (Satan) lies at the door.” And unto you shall be “his desire,” and you shall “rule over him.”

God was telling Cain what He’s told us in His word; “watch and pray” (Mat. 26:41). God was not telling Cain to watch outside of himself, but pay attention to his spirit man inside. We can see Satan affecting us when we are being tempted and our peace is affected. This is what Paul was talking about. Paul saw Satan warring against his mind in his times of temptations.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law (will) in my body, warring against the law (will) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law (will) of sin (Satan) which is in my body.

Anything contrary to the Peace of God is the character of Satan. This is the warfare.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world gives, give I unto you. “Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”

I don’t see emotions as a gift from God, but as the character of Satan. I see the Fruit of the Spirit as the Character of Christ. I don’t see in the character of Christ “anger, sadness, fear, lust, etc. I see these as the foundation of the nature of evil. I also know that man was created in good, but Adam didn’t understand good and evil until Adam sinned. Good and Evil is a sinful nature contrary to Christ gained after Adam sinned. Good and Evil is the nature of man before Christ; after Adam's sin; which every man was born into. Once we became born again, we died to the Adamic nature of good and evil, (by faith) and came alive to the nature of Christ which is only Righteousenss.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dave,

Personally, I don’t hate sin because I was given a new heart, I hate sin because Jesus has taught me to renew my mind to understand "who" sin is as oppose to what my actions of sin were. I knew my actions were wrong when I did them. I see sin as Satan; a spiritual being trying to destroy me and who was using me as a puppet. This is how Paul saw Satan.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more “I” that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

When Paul said, it’s not him that is sinning (Paul knew God's Grace of not imputing sin) but it was sin (Satan) that dwelt in me Paul. Paul was talking the way God warned Cain concerning Satan.

Gen 4:7 If you do well, you will be accepted? and if you do not well, “sin (Satan) lies at the door.” And unto you shall be “his desire,” and you shall “rule over him.”

God was telling Cain what He’s told us in His word; “watch and pray” (Mat. 26:41). God was not telling Cain to watch outside of himself, but pay attention to his spirit man inside. We can see Satan affecting us when we are being tempted and our peace is affected. This is what Paul was talking about. Paul saw Satan warring against his mind in his times of temptations.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law (will) in my body, warring against the law (will) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law (will) of sin (Satan) which is in my body.

Anything contrary to the Peace of God is the character of Satan. This is the warfare.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world gives, give I unto you. “Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”

I don’t see emotions as a gift from God, but as the character of Satan. I see the Fruit of the Spirit as the Character of Christ. I don’t see in the character of Christ “anger, sadness, fear, lust, etc. I see these as the foundation of the nature of evil. I also know that man was created in good, but Adam didn’t understand good and evil until Adam sinned. Good and Evil is a sinful nature contrary to Christ gained after Adam sinned. Good and Evil is the nature of man before Christ; after Adam's sin; which every man was born into. Once we became born again, we died to the Adamic nature of good and evil, (by faith) and came alive to the nature of Christ which is only Righteousenss.

I doubt God made Adam without emotions, calling everything He made to be "good". To regard emotions as evil is to accept a state of humanity like a snake. A person would be mentally crippled without emotions, and soon die due to lack of physiological expressions. Humans were indeed gifted far above the "Animal Kingdom".

Teaching that you are 100% sinless is heresy, not believed by any Christian church group I know of except followers of an 18th century heretic who started off well, but ended as a thorn in the side of Christianity. His name was Nikolaus Von Zinzendorf, an early founding pastor of the Moravian Church, which has discarded his heresies.

I've been researching the source of this pesky doctrine, found it, and been studying it. Part of his error grew from the practice of baptizing infants, those children growing up assuming they are sinless because of that act which was thought to cancel out the act of Adam bringing sin upon all mankind, something each of us didn't earn by choice.

I think anyone interested in entertaining this sinless doctrine ought to read a book that's free online, "The Old Man" by Beverly Carradine. Adhering to doctrines like the Zizendorfians is dangerous, likely damning to the soul.

Rather than be led about with scriptures plucked out of context, read again 2 Peter 1 and Phillipians 3. Paul warned not to boast of things that present you as disciple equal to Master Jesus, else you present yourself as Savior, sinless, the suitable sacrifice for all who follow you.

Philippians 3:9-15 (KJV)
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Please read the chapter.

i Cor 10 is a warning not to assume a perfect standing like Israel did, but to meet certain conditions lest ye fall.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
What proof to do have that Adam had emotions?

Emotions are any agitation of the mind.

 

[povawiqe]

@povawiqe,

You should not say a person is in error unless you can prove it. Povawiqe, you are in error. I enjoyed everything you said except when you told me I was in error; only because you could not prove it. But you must have thought I was saying a man's works were not sin before they became born again? I was not saying that.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2, 8 and 9 is not talking about saved unto Eternal Life, but it talking about saved from sin. Verses 1 through 9 is talking about sin not Eternal Life. Verse 1 and 5 sets the context of sin. You cannot work for your salvation from sin.

The works of sin was done by Jesus Christ on the cross this is why He said, “I have finished the work” you gave me to do (Joh. 17:4). This was the first part of the work. Jesus completed the work on the cross and in the resurrection (Joh. 19:30).

Yes, the Torah reveals knowledge of good and evil works, but it also reveals what Righteousness is, and the Torah could not make a man Righteous spiritually by their works (Gal. 3:21). The Righteousness in Christ is “sinlessness” and the Torah only covered sin. Jesus took sins away by purging man’s sins (Heb.1:3). Through the purging of sins being place upon Jesus, He circumcised and healed believer's hearts from sin. By Christ’s stripes we “were” healed (past tense) from sin (1Pe. 2:24). We can never be sick from sin again once for all.

Everything else I agree with. I’ve never heard the term “airflow” though.

You need proof that ceasing to do evil actions and doing good actions are both necessary? Seriously?

Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil,
learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause. (Isaiah 1:16-17)

And there are countless other scriptures that prove this. When you said, "its not about our actions", as if our actions weren't of importance, you were already going into error. Being circumcised in the heart, truly, results in never doing evil actions again, because the root of sin is removed, which is in the heart. If you still sin, you haven't truly been circumcised in the heart. By your own actions, which is your fruit, you show yourself whether you have been circumcised in the heart or not, which happens only when you receive the airflow of God,

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6)

So indeed this is about "actions". Don't fool yourself. Those questions I asked you relate to certain actions that are sins contrary to the Law of God. If you are still doing any of those, then you truly haven't stopped sinning.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
What proof to do have that Adam had emotions?

Emotions are any agitation of the mind.

Emotions include "agitations". See List of emotions - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Man was created with attributes of the triune God. God is found in scriptures to have expressed many emotions. Would you think those were imposed by the devil? I hope not. You see, God loves, even hates some things. So can man. Love can be quite agitating, by the way. Emotions are not acquired, but are instinctive reactions, attributes we are born with. Trust is an emotion that can happen when there is no factual basis to trust. Courage can "come over" a soldier in the face of certain death.

God was angry enough to flood the whole earth. He grieves and rejoices. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, and overturned the money changer tables while whipping offenders.

God is perfect and can perfectly control his emotions, else in a flash end creation and himself by a single misapplication of emotions, uttering something unintended. Men have to learn to control their emotions rather than submit them to any exterior situation, like dealing with fear, growing in faith instead.

I have a business to run today. Spend some time studying what's already been posted in this thread, read your Bible a New Testament book at a time in one sitting. Reset by aid of the Holy Spirit. You'll come out just fine.

 

[regibassman57]

@povawiqe,
Just so I can be on the same page as you, are you saying you still sin or you do not sin?

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
God created man in His image and likeness. What does God’s image and likeness mean for His creation of man? Gal. 5:22, 23 this is a way of thinking in conjunction with the Character of the Fruit of God’s Spirit. Satan’s character of good and evil is the opposite of the Fruit of God’s Spirit. God did not create man in all that He was, but in Righteousness alone.

There is no Righteousness is lust, fear, anger and sadness. Satan appears as an angel of light emotionally about many things to deceive and fill you with his negative emotional character. Satan has not created anything but confuses man’s character by temptations of influences emotionally. All temptations are emotional. This is why God told you not to let you heart be trouble. If God created you with emotions, he would not tell you not to allow your heart to be troubled because a city divided against itself cannot stand.

Agitation of the mind is what emotion does, therefore, your heart is troubled by the emotions that God told you not to let your heart become troubled by. Where there are no emotions, there is only peace and rest of spirit in man. I believe I should only talk with you about “evil” emotions first before we seek to understand good emotions. If you believe that God created man with evil emotions lets deal with that first and then deal with the good emotions.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
God created man

The original sin of Adam (& Eve) killed them spiritually the day they sinned, leaving their spirit doomed in true death, while remaining a misguided soul occupying their bodies another 9 centuries. Anyone born of the seed of Adam arrives as a dead spiritman, subject to temptations without remedy, unable to resist the devil. Judgment of our own iniquities begins upon age of accountability. Adam's faith was betrayed by fear, a perversion of faith. The fear came by suggestion of Satan, the new god of the world by Adam's bowing to that fallen angel. All people are born with emotions, and must learn how to control them to succeed. Without Christ in us one can only go so far in perfecting one's psyche by way of secular training.

The human spirit must first be born again. Reconciled to God spiritually. That is the planting of life in us alongside that dead man, that will ultimately destroy even memory of "it", that old way we learn to regret having connection to us. The first act of Jesus upon that reborn spirit is to sanctify that core of our being. It is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

The soul and body are next subject to continuous sanctification, which is a life long process of submission to the commandments of Jesus, all ultimately concluded in the New Millennium, with our redemption of body. That involves renewal of the mind, instilling right thinking to replace faulty thinking. I notice that's a lot easier for young children who have not filled their minds with stinking thinking. For all, though, Peter made it clear our responsibility beyond the new birth of spirit, to subject ourselves to ongoing sanctification. That's one of the keys we have learned in rehabilitation of people whose lives were severely damaged by sin. Even when saved many tend to continue thinking in terms of failure, fear of the future, fear of inadequacy, etc. They have to be intensely counselled. Left to themselves they usually stumble along.

Here's a very short summary of our part to live out. I notice ya'll tend to decline comment on this, but here it is again.
2 Peter 1:4-11 (KJV)
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for

if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

That leaves me thinking none of us is fully perfected upon being born again, for there is much maintenance to do. Jesus perfects us enough to go to work on life as intended by God. We all were given the measure of faith, so use it on yourself and others, adding to that all the days of your lives.

 

[regibassman57]

Dovegiven,

If Adam and Eve’s sin killed them spiritually, how can you know what emotional characteristics they had; because you were born in sin with emotions that you do not know about? After Adam and Eve, every man born into this world was born spiritually dead to God and emotionally bound to good and evil emotions while spiritually alive to the devil. The reason we didn't have God's character of the fruit of the Spirit at birth is because Adam's sin took it away from all man. The fruit of the Spirit is the character Adam was created to have at the beginning.

Whatever God created in Adam and Eve’s character died because they died spiritually to God and whatever character Satan filled them with influenced them and took their perfect peace away. One thing we know is God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and when he did they died and became emotional with good and evil emotions. The Fruit of the Spirit is not emotional and without agitation of the mind. This tells us Adam didn’t have the knowledge of good and evil until he ate of the tree. This also tells us that God did not want Adam and Eve to have knowledge of good and evil. God did not created Adam with the knowledge of good and evil emotions. Adam was not created with fear. I know this, I also know that fear is the primary emotion and every other evil emotions stem from fear.

As far as evil emotions we know God did not create man with fear. God has not given us the spirit of fear (2Ti. 1:7). God asked Cain, “why are you angry?” God didn’t create man to be angry. When God asked Cain that question, Cain was being tempted. How was Cain tempted? through emotions that God did not create in him. Where did these emotions come from? I think you know the answer to this question but it wasn't God.

I don’t know if you’re saying Adam’s faith was betrayed by fear before or after he sinned. But after Adam sinned they needed to learn to control emotion (agitation of the mind) which God didn’t create in them. God had to teach Cain who anger in him was. God told Cain sin/Satan is at the door and his desire was to Cain (Gen. 4:7). Man does not need to control anything God created in them in Righteousness; because it’s peaceful after the character of Christ. You don’t seem to realize that a man can only be tempted by emotions. Scripture tells us that everyman is tempted by lust and enticed. Lust is a primary emotion from the devil (Joh. 8:44).

I will address your other information on another post. Before you reply to this post let me finish replying to the rest of this post.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

You said: The fear came by suggestion of Satan.

Fear didn’t come by a suggestion of Satan. Fear came because Satan filled the heart of Adam with the spirit of fear and death by becoming his god and father in this world.

You said: All people are born with emotions.

This is truth; with good and evil emotions, but God didn’t create them with it. God told them not to eat of the tree of good and evil so God didn't give them good and evil emotion. They received them when they ate of the tree of "knowledge" of good and evil.

You said: That leaves me thinking none of us is fully perfected upon being born again, for there is much maintenance to do.

After being born again believers learn how to put off the old man and put on the new man. This is the second process of the sanctification. The first process of sanctification is only accomplished by Jesus Christ when He purges us of all our sins at our time of birth. And because all our sins have been imputed upon Jesus Christ, God is not imputing sins unto us as believers. If you do not know what “impute” means ask or look it up. You will be enlightened if you pair the understanding with sin.

 

[Dovegiven]

Dovegiven,

If Adam and Eve’s sin killed them spiritually, how can you know what emotional characteristics they had; because you were born in sin with emotions that you do not know about? After Adam and Eve, every man born into this world was born spiritually dead to God and emotionally bound to good and evil emotions while spiritually alive to the devil. The reason we didn't have God's character of the fruit of the Spirit at birth is because Adam's sin took it away from all man. The fruit of the Spirit is the character Adam was created to have at the beginning.

Whatever God created in Adam and Eve’s character died because they died spiritually to God and whatever character Satan filled them with influenced them and took their perfect peace away. One thing we know is God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and when he did they died and became emotional with good and evil emotions. The Fruit of the Spirit is not emotional and without agitation of the mind. This tells us Adam didn’t have the knowledge of good and evil until he ate of the tree. This also tells us that God did not want Adam and Eve to have knowledge of good and evil. God did not created Adam with the knowledge of good and evil emotions. Adam was not created with fear. I know this, I also know that fear is the primary emotion and every other evil emotions stem from fear.

As far as evil emotions we know God did not create man with fear. God has not given us the spirit of fear (2Ti. 1:7). God asked Cain, “why are you angry?” God didn’t create man to be angry. When God asked Cain that question, Cain was being tempted. How was Cain tempted? through emotions that God did not create in him. Where did these emotions come from? I think you know the answer to this question but it wasn't God.

I don’t know if you’re saying Adam’s faith was betrayed by fear before or after he sinned. But after Adam sinned they needed to learn to control emotion (agitation of the mind) which God didn’t create in them. God had to teach Cain who anger in him was. God told Cain sin/Satan is at the door and his desire was to Cain (Gen. 4:7). Man does not need to control anything God created in them in Righteousness; because it’s peaceful after the character of Christ. You don’t seem to realize that a man can only be tempted by emotions. Scripture tells us that everyman is tempted by lust and enticed. Lust is a primary emotion from the devil (Joh. 8:44).

I will address your other information on another post. Before you reply to this post let me finish replying to the rest of this post.

Cast down evil imaginations. Imaginations are not a product of the devil, but come from one's mind. One's mind is corrupted by sin, yielding to temptations of even little thoughts. Satan is not a god, but is a fallen angel stripped of his power. He was left a liar and deceiver. He can influence, but not overpower.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
You said:Cast down evil imaginations. Imaginations are not a product of the devil, but come from one's mind. One's mind is corrupted by sin, yielding to temptations of even little thoughts. Satan is not a god, but is a fallen angel stripped of his power. He was left a liar and deceiver. He can influence, but not overpower.

Why would you say, "imaginations are not a product of the devil after saying, (as scripture says) Cast down evil imaginations? The imaginations are coming from the devil that's why you cast them down. Satan puts the imaginations there. Satan is the god of this world according to scritpure, because a man can only serve Satan or Jesus. Satan was in the hearts of all men until Jesus gave them another option.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,

John 8:30, 31, 32, 34
As Jesus spoke these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which "believed on him." If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed. And you shall "know" the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Verily, verily, I say unto you, "WHOSOEVER" commits sin is the servant of sin.

What will the truth of Jesus make a person "free" from?

Romans 6:20
When you were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:18
Being then made "free from sin," you became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made "free from sin," and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Every Christian has been "made free" from the sin they inherited from Adam as Jesus has promised and have been liberated once for all. A person that say they are born again and commit sin, John warns them confirming what Jesus said; telling them who they are serving as a servant.

1 John 3:8
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The works of the devil have been destroyed by Jesus Christ when He condemned sin and death on the cross and made every man free; giving them the Gift of freedom from sins and power over the devil.

Ephesians 2:8, 9
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This is the time when Jesus washed our sins away.

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
You said:Cast down evil imaginations. Imaginations are not a product of the devil, but come from one's mind. One's mind is corrupted by sin, yielding to temptations of even little thoughts. Satan is not a god, but is a fallen angel stripped of his power. He was left a liar and deceiver. He can influence, but not overpower.

Why would you say, "imaginations are not a product of the devil after saying, (as scripture says) Cast down evil imaginations? The imaginations are coming from the devil that's why you cast them down. Satan puts the imaginations there. Satan is the god of this world according to scritpure, because a man can only serve Satan or Jesus. Satan was in the hearts of all men until Jesus gave them another option.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If Satan were to have power to cause imaginations, then that person is possessed of the devil and needs deliverance. Imaginations meant for inspiration, evaluating potentials, are easily corrupted into evil imaginations because of the effect of sin, and/or thoughts we should have resisted, such as watching a horror movie that inspires thoughts of horror with us as an actor. We are to guard our minds against such influences.

The commandment was to the CHURCH, to cast down evil imaginations. Every thought is subject to judgment. A mere thought often leads to an imagination in technicolor, which in turn, if not cast down, can lead to a temptation, eventually committing a sin of its nature. The issue is the state of a man's heart, not the dialog from the devil as though he is a god directing our minds. Christians are in the process of renewing of the mind, which can't possibly happen upon being born again, the reason God provides teachers. We are still learning what is sin, initially revealed by the Law, else I might not ever realize coveting is wrong. Rom 7:7 But in Christ, knowing to do the right thing by faith, but not doing it, is sin even though not defined in the Law. Rom 14:23. We are all students of Christ by the Holy Spirit, learning, avoiding shame, 2 Tit 2:15, or stagnating with potential of forgetting what we were awarded in Christ 2 Peter 1.

The scriptures identify the masters. Satan is the master of the world by presumption, his followers being those following lies, probably most prone to totally deny following some demonic creature. Love of money is a far more powerful master, even among those who have little or no money. "Satan" does not equal "money", for instance. Abundance is a blessing from God, and so are the fruits of one's labor. Growing in selfishness from abundance (or lack thereof) is not a direct product of Satan "in" us, but is of iniquity which must be resisted, especially since iniquity is fed by lies from Satan, whose gates to us is through the natural senses and our spiritual sense of hearing. While Christians are raised with Christ to new life, our memory remains full of evil input, like getting a new computer, then having all the old data put in it to preserve our contacts, favorites, documents, etc..

Where does it say Satan was in all hearts of men? Iniquity is one element that can help fill the "heart", which is a self-generated rebellion against God. It does explain how the lies of Satan keep unbelievers from comprehending truth, until the timing of the Spirit of God affords a moment of escape upon hearing the gospel preached. Did you know that at Pentecost many of the priests and pharisees, et. al, became believers? The veil was removed for some to see past. There are more masters out there than Satan. Satan is happy for a person to yield to any but to Christ.

You say the scriptures have Satan god of the world. He is defacto master of the wicked who remain wicked because many people default to his lies. Jesus has given the children of God authority over all, so Satan is not actual god of the world. God is god. Jesus has given us rights to believe by faith contrary to whatever Satan would like to accomplish. The remaining problem is Christians tend to not utilize that authority, accepting life as defined by lies from Satan. Since memory of the Old Man of death (in our carnal/fleshly mind/memory), that man of sin reigns in many even though we are dead to that mindset because we arose with Jesus and reign from the right hand of God, When trying to explain that most hearers take on a stupified facial reaction. Huh?

Imaginations are a gift from God, an ability that a fallen angel could never award, but are prone to be damning in an evil heart. Short of a heavenly vision like Daniel experienced, an imagination captivates innocent hearts with animated thoughts of being in Heaven, of being a powerful preacher, of being a good cop in a child. Not all imaginations are evil, but are elements of direction of good thoughts that build character and purpose. But imagainations in the defiled heart of man not subject to regeneration by the Spirit, draw much warning from the Lord.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

You said: Imaginations meant for inspiration, evaluating potentials, are easily corrupted into evil imaginations because of the effect of sin, and/or thoughts we should have resisted, such as watching a horror movie that inspires thoughts of horror with us as an actor. We are to guard our minds against such influences.

Who do you think influences the evil imaginations to write horror movies that you say we should have resisted? These are imagination Satan brings to us.

Man is a vessel and we entertain what Jehovah God inputs into us or what Satan inputs through temptations in thought. Satan input imaginations by way of thoughts and emotions of everyday life. A person can walk down the street and Satan can bring visions to a person to tempt him or her without them doing anything. Once or if a person takes hold of the devil’s offer, Satan starts to talk to them in their voice at times deceiving them, because the person believes they are doing the thinking, when in actuality Satan is mimicking them. Just as Jehovah God gives visions, the devil brings thought and visions to man also. Man’s imagination comes from his senses pure thoughts which are based on the emotional lust of the flesh or the pure love of God.

Imaginations (even from the devil) do not conclude that a person is possessed. If the person continues mediating on imagination from the devil they do become possessed in the sense that they are controlled by the devil. A believer cannot be owned by the devil, but they can be controlled. I’ve cast out several demons from people and I know they entered through what the person became obsessed in thinking about in their imagination. Imaginations can be pictures in the mind good, evil or righteous.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

I don’t understand why you would say, “Satan is the master of the world by presumption?” It’s not by presumption, it’s by fact. Satan was in the hearts of every man born into this world (after Adam sinned) until Jesus came and saved believers from Satan’s reign of sin. Satan brings imaginations to man because they don’t have the material things of this world. Satan tempts and influences a person as a child if they don’t have what the next kid has. Satan put in their mind how to get it and this happens for the rest of a person’s life if they don’t get it under control in Christ. As you said, lies of Satan are heard as an imagination. If lies of Satan are heard as imaginations, it’s because Satan brings the lies for a person to understand the imagination.

You said: “If Satan were to have power to cause imaginations, then that person is possessed of the devil and needs deliverance.”

It seems you’re saying that Satan doesn’t have power to cause imaginations?

You said: Growing in selfishness from abundance (or lack thereof) is not a direct product of Satan "in" us, but is of iniquity which must be resisted, especially since iniquity is fed by lies from Satan, whose gates to us is through the natural senses and our spiritual sense of hearing

Selfishness is the direct product of Satan’s character. God does not speak of His character, which is the Fruit of the Spirit; Satan’s character which is the character of the old sinful nature, and man’s character. Man has no character of “self.” Man’s character is only of Jehovah God or of Satan.

Eph 4:22 That you put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Eph 4:24 And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.