For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

[regibassman57]

JesusIs4Me,
In another post I wrote about the disciple being kept by Jesus praying for them to His Father (Joh. 17:14-16). The disciples were believers that didn't have the Holy Ghost, at the time of their belief, because the Spirit had not been given - and because Jesus had not been glorified (Joh. 7:39). But the disciples didn't stop believing, they continued learning. This should be an example to all that come to Jesus. I wrote God is able to keep a believer until He baptizes them with His Spirit, which we can read in scripture (Acts 10 and 19). God knows if a person believes in their heart or not. The person believing must have faith the gifts will operate in them according to God's will and not theirs. It's not about signs and wonders or the gift of speaking in tongues; every believer does not speak in tongues (1Cor. 12: 28-31). Neither of the scriptures below can a person argue against; they can only be understood for what they say.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If a person does not accept Jesus as Lord, they do not have the Spirit. If a person accepts Jesus as Lord and are honest in their heart, they are saved by faith. If they don't know if they have the Spirit or not, it's for them to say and believe they do. The gifts are in the Spirit and is not separate from the Spirit. They will become active as God wills. But they are only baptized "ONCE" into the body of Christ; therefore, saved at that time and their sins purged; past, present and future.

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Every believer should "bear witness" with the Spirit of God when they are born again because "GOD" reveals Himself to them. Another man cannot bear witness, so another believer cannot say, "you are not saved" after a person has accepted Jesus as Lord. If the believer doesn't feel anything, they must continue to "think" as God's word teaches (Rom. 10:9, 10; 1Joh. 1:9). If God says they are saved then that should be their belief. I'm not a person that has said a person must speak in tongues in order for them to be saved. It is their responsibility to believe what God's word says. Many people quit believing because they don't "FEEL" like a spiritual being or do some great spiritual wonder. It's all in what they are reading and who it is that is teaching them.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[JesusIs4Me]

JesusIs4Me,
In another post I wrote about the disciple being kept by Jesus praying for them to His Father (Joh. 17:14-16). The disciples were believers that didn't have the Holy Ghost, at the time of their belief, because the Spirit had not been given - and because Jesus had not been glorified (Joh. 7:39). But the disciples didn't stop believing, they continued learning. This should be an example to all that come to Jesus. I wrote God is able to keep a believer until He baptizes them with His Spirit, which we can read in scripture (Acts 10 and 19). God knows if a person believes in their heart or not. The person believing must have faith the gifts will operate in them according to God's will and not theirs. It's not about signs and wonders or the gift of speaking in tongues; every believer does not speak in tongues (1Cor. 12: 28-31). Neither of the scriptures below can a person argue against; they can only be understood for what they say.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I see your application for the Samaritans & Simon the sorceror in Acts 8th chapter when the fandom shifted from Simon to Philip in the area and their following Philip because of the miracles, for why they had not received the Holy Spirit yet because they believed in the "things" about the kingdom of heaven and the name of Jesus but that is different than believing in Him personally. Philip learned from that event afterwards by asking the Ethiopian eunuch if he believed in the Lord Jesus Christ before water baptizing him.

However, I do not see your application in Acts 10th chapter when after Peter spoke, they believed and received the promise before water baptism. They did not hear the gospel on how to be saved until they did.

As for Acts 19, those were disciples of John the Baptist's; Paul had to tell them about Jesus and then they got water baptized in His name and then received the promise at their salvation.

If a person does not accept Jesus as Lord, they do not have the Spirit. If a person accepts Jesus as Lord and are honest in their heart, they are saved by faith. If they don't know if they have the Spirit or not, it's for them to say and believe they do. The gifts are in the Spirit and is not separate from the Spirit. They will become active as God wills. But they are only baptized "ONCE" into the body of Christ; therefore, saved at that time and their sins purged; past, present and future.

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Every believer should "bear witness" with the Spirit of God when they are born again because "GOD" reveals Himself to them. Another man cannot bear witness, so another believer cannot say, "you are not saved" after a person has accepted Jesus as Lord. If the believer doesn't feel anything, they must continue to "think" as God's word teaches (Rom. 10:9, 10; 1Joh. 1:9). If God says they are saved then that should be their belief. I'm not a person that has said a person must speak in tongues in order for them to be saved. It is their responsibility to believe what God's word says. Many people quit believing because they don't "FEEL" like a spiritual being or do some great spiritual wonder. It's all in what they are reading and who it is that is teaching them.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report...…..6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,

However, I do not see your application in Acts 10th chapter when after Peter spoke, they believed and received the promise before water baptism. They did not hear the gospel on how to be saved until they did. .

Remember when I said God knows the hearts of man and Jesus prayed and interceded on behalf of the disciple? God is no respect of persons. Acts 10 is the example of what I was talking about. Cornelius believed in God before Peter came to him. God kept Cornelius because he believed; though he didn’t have the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

Act 10:31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

Scripture teaches us that God does not here sinners (Joh. 9:31).

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God hears not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he hears. Acts 10:37 teaches that Cornelius knew and had to have heard the word preached.

With Cornelius God called those things which be not as though they were. God understands the intent of the heart but He saw Cornelius' faithfulness. As I said, I believe God kept Cornelius until Peter was sent. Cornelius worked Righteousness in God’s sight; this is why God heard his prayer.

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that fears God, and works righteousness, is accepted with him.

Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

Act 10:37 That word, I say, “YOU KNOW,” which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

We know that John’s baptism did not take away sins; only Jesus Christ could take away sins. This means a person does not received remission of sins until they are baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:43 To him (Jesus Christ) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever “believes” in him “shall” receive remission of sins.

Again, it is only through the Holy Ghost (the promise) that a person is “purged” of their sins.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spoke these words, the “Holy Ghost fell” on all them which “heard the word.”

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was “poured out the “gift” of the Holy Ghost.”

As for Acts 19, those were disciples of John the Baptist's; Paul had to tell them about Jesus and then they got water baptized in His name and then received the promise at their salvation. .

Whoever John baptized heard about Jesus Christ from John the baptizer. John came preaching Jesus Christ.

Act 19:4 Then “said Paul,” John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, “SAYING” (John taught them) unto the people, that “they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, “PREACHING” in the wilderness of Judaea,

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and “PREACH” the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Everything John preached was about Jesus Christ. Repentance for the remission of sins is the Gospel.

Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Joh 1:26 “John answered them, saying,” I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh 1:27 “He it is, who coming after me” is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Those in Acts 19 never heard the message of the Holy Ghost falling, but they heard and believed in Jesus Christ. They were baptized by John who preached of Jesus Christ. The point of John's preaching was to teach and baptize.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me,

Remember when I said God knows the hearts of man and Jesus prayed and interceded on behalf of the disciple? God is no respect of persons. Acts 10 is the example of what I was talking about.

Actually Acts 8 was because Simon's and the Samaritans' hearts were not quite right with the Lord. They were seeking Him, believing the things about what Philip was preaching but following Philip more out of fanfare to behold the miracles.

Cornelius believed in God before Peter came to him. God kept Cornelius because he believed; though he didn’t have the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

Act 10:31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

Do consider that God knows who is seeking Him from those that are not. Cornelius may have heard about Jesus Christ, but when Peter preached how to receive the remission of sins by believing in Him, that was when he applied belief in Him to be saved in receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit at his salvation.

An example of God knowing who seeks Him from those that are not...

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So Cornelius may have heard about Jesus Christ but not the gospel in the way Peter had presented. God knows whom is seeking Him and the Father is the One that draws men unto the Son; as all those that seek shall find is His promise.

Whoever John baptized heard about Jesus Christ from John the baptizer. John came preaching Jesus Christ.

No. John did not. He was preaching about Him but he knew Him not before He came. Requoting your verses.

Joh 1:26 “John answered them, saying,” I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh 1:27 “He it is, who coming after me” is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

That is why Paul REVEALED Whom it was John was preaching about to John's disciples.

Act 19:4 Then “said Paul,” John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, “SAYING” (John taught them) unto the people, that “they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

Everything John preached was about Jesus Christ. Repentance for the remission of sins is the Gospel.

No. John was not preaching the gospel when believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins. His water baptism for repentance for the remission of sins provided the way for believers to believe that by believing in Him is how one receives remission of sins that comes with the promise of the Holy Ghost at the believer's moment of salvation.

Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Joh 1:26 “John answered them, saying,” I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh 1:27 “He it is, who coming after me” is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Those in Acts 19 never heard the message of the Holy Ghost falling, but they heard and believed in Jesus Christ.

They did not, otherwise they would have already been baptized in Jesus's name; not John the Baptist's. That is why Paul revealed Whom it was that John the Baptist was preaching about to those "disciples" of John the Baptist's; not of Jesus Christ's.

They were baptized by John who preached of Jesus Christ. The point of John's preaching was to teach and baptize.

John prepared the way for the Lord, but he preached admitting to the audience that they know Him not that is coming. That is why those disciples of John the Baptist's did not know until Paul told them and then they got water baptized in His name and got saved.

 

[regibassman57]

@JesusIs4Me,

Actually Acts 8 was because Simon's and the Samaritans' hearts were not quite right with the Lord. They were seeking Him, believing the things about what Philip was preaching but following Philip more out of fanfare to behold the miracles.

You wrote about Acts 8. I didn't reply to it.

Do consider that God knows who is seeking Him from those that are not. Cornelius may have heard about Jesus Christ, but when Peter preached how to receive the remission of sins by believing in Him, that was when he applied belief in Him to be saved in receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit at his salvation.
So Cornelius may have heard about Jesus Christ but not the gospel in the way Peter had presented. God knows whom is seeking Him and the Father is the One that draws men unto the Son; as all those that seek shall find is His promise.

God sent Peter because of Cornelius' belief in what he heard. Cornelius heard before Peter came. Peter also confirms that Cornelius knew in verse 37.

Acts 10:36
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christhe is Lord of all
Acts 10:37
That word, I say, "you know," which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

Hebrews 4:12 teaches that God knows the intent of the heart; so He knows who's seeking Him or not. God teaches if a man believes from his Heart he shall be saved.

No. John did not. He was preaching about Him but he knew Him not before He came. Requoting your verses.

John didn't have to know Jesus before He came, John was led by the Spirit and understood the prophecies about Jesus before Jesus came (Luk. 1:15). John was chosen to be the forerunner testifying about Christ before Christ came. John understood the message of redemption of sins and this is what he preached. John also preached that the people should believe on Jesus who would come after him. The purpose of Jesus was preached under the first covenant; this is why God was angry with the Pharisees because they didn't believe what the prophets spoke about of Jesus. When Jesus came the Pharisees didn't believe Him.

No. John was not preaching the gospel when believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins. His water baptism for repentance for the remission of sins provided the way for believers to believe that by believing in Him is how one receives remission of sins that comes with the promise of the Holy Ghost at the believer's moment of salvation.

A person must believe in the coming Messiah under the first covenant. When Jesus came, His name was published throughout the region and people had an opportunity to believe in His name or not. Cornelius heard the word before Peter told him because Jesus was preached. Everyone did not hear, like the Ethiopian. But when the Ethiopian heard, he believed.

They did not, otherwise they would have already been baptized in Jesus's name; not John the Baptist's. That is why Paul revealed Whom it was that John the Baptist was preaching about to those "disciples" of John the Baptist's; not of Jesus Christ's. John prepared the way for the Lord, but he preached admitting to the audience that they know Him not that is coming. That is why those disciples of John the Baptist's did not know until Paul told them and then they got water baptized in His name and got saved.

Anyone baptized by John the Baptist understood everything that John understood regarding Jesus Christ.

Luke 1:76
And thou, child (talking about John), shalt be called the prophet of the Highest:
for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luke 1:77
To give knowledge of "salvation" unto his people
by the remission of their sins,