Useless Discussions?

[B-A-C]

1 Tim 1:3; As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
1 Tim 1:4; nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
1 Tim 1:5; But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:6; For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,

Is it just me, or does it seems a lot of discussion and debate these days is "fruitless discussion"? Does it seems that some people don't really want to study the Bible,
but rather debate and argue for the sake of debate?

Tit 3:8; This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.
Tit 3:9; But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tit 3:10; Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tit 3:11; knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

There are certainly things we should study, and even some things that require correction and ... dare I say ... "truth".
Are we too easily drawn in to "unprofitable and worthless" disputes over genealogies and controversies? Why are we here on TalkJesus?
Too understand the Bible more, too draw nearer to God and His ways... or simply to argue and bicker with people because we have nothing better to do.
We might not be able to "reject factious" people always, but we certainly don't have to continue debating the same debates with them over and over.

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We might be able to say we aren't sexually immoral or practicing idolatry. We might even be able to say we don't practice drunkenness.
But can everyone here (myself included) really say we avoid strife, disputes, dissensions and trying to create division.

Some things naturally cause division in the church it seems (I can't believe I just said that) but even so, are we just looking for a fight sometimes?
Or are we really trying to understand God and His word?

 

[Dave M]

Praise the Lord, and I do pray all the time to get better in this department.. the ways some one responds or does not respond at all, to post is very revealing of how there walk is going IMO

James 1:26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Proverbs 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits.

Proverbs 10:19
When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.

James 3:5
So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire!

 

[Quantrill]

1 Tim 1:3; As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
1 Tim 1:4; nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
1 Tim 1:5; But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:6; For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,

Is it just me, or does it seems a lot of discussion and debate these days is "fruitless discussion"? Does it seems that some people don't really want to study the Bible,
but rather debate and argue for the sake of debate?

Tit 3:8; This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.
Tit 3:9; But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tit 3:10; Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tit 3:11; knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

There are certainly things we should study, and even some things that require correction and ... dare I say ... "truth".
Are we too easily drawn in to "unprofitable and worthless" disputes over genealogies and controversies? Why are we here on TalkJesus?
Too understand the Bible more, too draw nearer to God and His ways... or simply to argue and bicker with people because we have nothing better to do.
We might not be able to "reject factious" people always, but we certainly don't have to continue debating the same debates with them over and over.

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We might be able to say we aren't sexually immoral or practicing idolatry. We might even be able to say we don't practice drunkenness.
But can everyone here (myself included) really say we avoid strife, disputes, dissensions and trying to create division.

Some things naturally cause division in the church it seems (I can't believe I just said that) but even so, are we just looking for a fight sometimes?
Or are we really trying to understand God and His word?

So, answer your own question. Why are you here?

A forum does not replace your local church. A forum asks for other opinions and debates. A forum, a debate, a fight, are all synonymous. And, yes you do have to keep debating the same things over and over. When you present the Gospel, does it change? No. You keep presenting it over and over.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Praise the Lord, and I do pray all the time to get better in this department.. the ways some one responds or does not respond at all, to post is very revealing of how there walk is going IMO

James 1:26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Proverbs 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits.

Proverbs 10:19
When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.

James 3:5
So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire!

We all need to learn and grow.

 

[Bendito]

1 Tim 1:3; As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
1 Tim 1:4; nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
1 Tim 1:5; But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:6; For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,

Is it just me, or does it seems a lot of discussion and debate these days is "fruitless discussion"? Does it seems that some people don't really want to study the Bible,
but rather debate and argue for the sake of debate?

Tit 3:8; This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.
Tit 3:9; But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tit 3:10; Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tit 3:11; knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

There are certainly things we should study, and even some things that require correction and ... dare I say ... "truth".
Are we too easily drawn in to "unprofitable and worthless" disputes over genealogies and controversies? Why are we here on TalkJesus?
Too understand the Bible more, too draw nearer to God and His ways... or simply to argue and bicker with people because we have nothing better to do.
We might not be able to "reject factious" people always, but we certainly don't have to continue debating the same debates with them over and over.

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We might be able to say we aren't sexually immoral or practicing idolatry. We might even be able to say we don't practice drunkenness.
But can everyone here (myself included) really say we avoid strife, disputes, dissensions and trying to create division.

Some things naturally cause division in the church it seems (I can't believe I just said that) but even so, are we just looking for a fight sometimes?
Or are we really trying to understand God and His word?

I agree with you, my friend. On the other hand, every person is at a different level of growth and learning. So what seems to be a waste of time to you, or me is of consequence to another person. To them, it may not be a waste of time at all. So there it is....now brace yourself for some rude answers from some of those others.

 

[KingJ]

I believe those verses in Timothy are for those who only talk and do not 'do'. Or overkill a topic. ''Fruitless discussion''.

No discussion on the internet is fruitless. A discussion can become fruitless, but never starts out as such.

 

[Dave M]

Are we too easily drawn in to "unprofitable and worthless" disputes over genealogies and controversies?

Then there are those who are mature enough to just not respond, now that takes great maturity IMO and not often seen.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

1 Tim 1:3; As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
1 Tim 1:4; nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
1 Tim 1:5; But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:6; For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,

Is it just me, or does it seems a lot of discussion and debate these days is "fruitless discussion"? Does it seems that some people don't really want to study the Bible,
but rather debate and argue for the sake of debate?

Tit 3:8; This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men.
Tit 3:9; But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
Tit 3:10; Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
Tit 3:11; knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

There are certainly things we should study, and even some things that require correction and ... dare I say ... "truth".
Are we too easily drawn in to "unprofitable and worthless" disputes over genealogies and controversies? Why are we here on TalkJesus?
Too understand the Bible more, too draw nearer to God and His ways... or simply to argue and bicker with people because we have nothing better to do.
We might not be able to "reject factious" people always, but we certainly don't have to continue debating the same debates with them over and over.

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

We might be able to say we aren't sexually immoral or practicing idolatry. We might even be able to say we don't practice drunkenness.
But can everyone here (myself included) really say we avoid strife, disputes, dissensions and trying to create division.

Some things naturally cause division in the church it seems (I can't believe I just said that) but even so, are we just looking for a fight sometimes?
Or are we really trying to understand God and His word?

Humans are humans wither Christian or not. And humans will always disagree. Put fifty Christians in a room from different denominations give them a few controversial verses to read and you will have probably fifty different opinions. That is why we do need to discuss and debate the important issues. People could be stuck in one or another pet doctrine which robs them for their whole life. We need to be careful of becoming too "spiritual" and of NO earthly use. Maybe some would be better off in a monastery praying and reading the same doctrines all day and night and never hear any valid opposing view. Nope - not really - your mind would vegetate. There is no such thing as a useless discussion. All should result in learning. The person who thinks they know everything has not started to learn anything.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Or are we really trying to understand God and His word?

How do you think the Bible (Protestant or Roman Catholic) came to be like it is today. From Bishops with ideas and viewpoints opposing other Bishops with ideas and viewpoints. And the one with more support won the day and the others became heretics. Read up on early Christianity and how the scriptures were canonized more than three hundred fifty years later. Development of the Christian biblical canon - Wikipedia

" In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books that would formally become the New Testament canon,[12] and he used the word "canonized" (kanonizomena) in regard to them.[13] The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) was the Council of Rome, held by Pope Damasus I (382). A second council was held at the Council of Hippo (393) reaffirming the previous council list. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Council of Carthage (397) and the Council of Carthage (419).[14] These councils took place under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed.[15] Pope Damasus I's Council of Rome in 382, if the Decretum Gelasianum is correctly associated with it, issued a biblical canon identical to that mentioned above,[12] or if not the list is at least a 6th-century compilation[16] claiming a 4th-century imprimatur.[17] Likewise, Damasus's commissioning of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, c. 383, was instrumental in the fixation of the canon in the West.[18] In 405, Pope Innocent I sent a list of the sacred books to a Gallic bishop, Exsuperius of Toulouse. When these bishops and councils spoke on the matter, however, they were not defining something new, but instead "were ratifying what had already become the mind of the church."[19] Thus, from the 5th century onward, the Western Church was unanimous concerning the New Testament canon.[20]"

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Then there are those who are mature enough to just not respond, now that takes great maturity IMO and not often seen.

You should have said "who think they are too mature" More like ducking and diving. And hiding under the pew. Waiting for Pastor Joe.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

I believe those verses in Timothy are for those who only talk and do not 'do'. Or overkill a topic. ''Fruitless discussion''.

No discussion on the internet is fruitless. A discussion can become fruitless, but never starts out as such.

Yep - spot on. Cannot disagree. Some people are like Ostridges and like to hide their head in the ground when unsure or rattled. They are the ones who like obscure scriptures they think are admonishing discussions. If you are sure of your point of view why run for mummy. Because you are not. Who gets to say what should or should not be discussed?. Nobody.

 

[B-A-C]

How do you think the Bible (Protestant or Roman Catholic) came to be like it is today. From Bishops with ideas and viewpoints opposing other Bishops with ideas and viewpoints. And the one with more support won the day and the others became heretics. Read up on early Christianity and how the scriptures were canonized more than three hundred fifty years later. Development of the Christian biblical canon - Wikipedia

I'm sorry but I don't agree with very much Wikipedia has to say about the Bible or Christianity in general. Much of what they say is straight out wrong and misleading.
In any case, if you don't believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, why are you here? What do you base YOUR beliefs on?

 

[Scripture Nomad]

Knowing that many will find my comment offensive, I am almost hesitant to share it. I am not judging people, I am making an observation which you may consider or ignore...I will not be offended. With that said, I find that most entities that are labelled; "Bible discussions" are actually nothing more than humanistic religious rhetoric, traditional regurgitation, argument, and denominational debate. Occasionally an attention seeker or two will chime in with atheistic or satanic buffoonery. There is very little spirituality because aside from any form of intimate, personal relationship with God's Word, most respond [some more accurately re-act] from their scholastic/academic type Bible study experiences. It is a sad commentary on just how far the professed Christian community has drifted out and away from God's purposed "Way". There is a primary focus on "commandments", "sins", "accomplishments", "do's and don't's" and other works, with little to no focus on the love of God as expressed in the giving of His Son. Grace, defined by all as "unmerited favor", has attachments in most discussions. If one "listens" to the scriptures one receives the revelation that the Power of God is His Love. Focusing on and believing in His love is what changes us and the world around us...not a bunch of religious hoo-hah. God's love always "is"..never was..or will be.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with very much Wikipedia has to say about the Bible or Christianity in general. Much of what they say is straight out wrong and misleading.
In any case, if you don't believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, why are you here? What do you base YOUR beliefs on?

If you know more on how we got the Bible we read today and consider to be as if the very word of God, could you tell us. To run down a citation i supplied is not very convincing, you need to refute it. We should follow where the evidence leads. People lie, evidence does not. The early church did not have the NT Bible like we have today. So how did they believe?

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Knowing that many will find my comment offensive, I am almost hesitant to share it. I am not judging people, I am making an observation which you may consider or ignore...I will not be offended. With that said, I find that most entities that are labelled; "Bible discussions" are actually nothing more than humanistic religious rhetoric, traditional regurgitation, argument, and denominational debate. Occasionally an attention seeker or two will chime in with atheistic or satanic buffoonery. There is very little spirituality because aside from any form of intimate, personal relationship with God's Word, most respond [some more accurately re-act] from their scholastic/academic type Bible study experiences. It is a sad commentary on just how far the professed Christian community has drifted out and away from God's purposed "Way". There is a primary focus on "commandments", "sins", "accomplishments", "do's and don't's" and other works, with little to no focus on the love of God as expressed in the giving of His Son. Grace, defined by all as "unmerited favor", has attachments in most discussions. If one "listens" to the scriptures one receives the revelation that the Power of God is His Love. Focusing on and believing in His love is what changes us and the world around us...not a bunch of religious hoo-hah. God's love always "is"..never was..or will be.

You need to have a firmer foundation than saying that God is love and that is all there is for us to know and do. Life is not so simple. If only it was. Nor is religious faith and belief. For instance how do you know what you believe is sound? Acts 17:11, Paul of Tarsus and Silas preached at Berea, and the inhabitants "... received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

[Dave M]

For instance how do you know what you believe is sound?

that easy when you become born again you are a new person the old you has died, we no longer live in SIN !! we want to please our Holly Father because we love him so much !! we no longer live for our earthly fleshy desires.

 

[Scripture Nomad]

You need to have a firmer foundation than saying that God is love and that is all there is for us to know and do. Life is not so simple. If only it was. Nor is religious faith and belief. For instance how do you know what you believe is sound? Acts 17:11, Paul of Tarsus and Silas preached at Berea, and the inhabitants "... received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

There is no greater foundation than the "knowing" that one is deeply loved, completely forgiven and right with God in Christ [the physical depiction of God's unconditional love]. Like the Bereans I feed on the Word of God daily and "listen" to the scriptures under the primary guidance of the Holy Spirit...I do not search the scriptures to find what Wikipedia tells me to look for.