What do you think the role of angels will be in the millennium
- Thread starter Brett124
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Quantrill
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I believe the Millennium to be a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ upon the earth. It will begin with believers only who enter it having survived the Tribulation. Over time children will be born and not all of these will be believers. So, just as now, the ministry of the angels is to watch over and protect those who are heirs of salvation, (Heb. 1:14), so I believe they will continue in that. And of course the certain class of angels that surround the throne of God, (Eze. 1:5-28), will always remain in their responsibilities to God, whatever that entails, which we just cannot know.
As far as eternity, how can we know? A question to consider would be, what will be the relationship of redeemed man to the angels? I say that because redeemed man on this side, who have not yet been glorified, have a tendency to worship or fall down before them when he sees them. (Dan. 10:9-10) But in our glorified state we will be elevated higher than the angels. (Heb. 2:5-8) This is difficult to visualize, but it is true. So we will not sense then any tendency to fall down before the angels.
Quantrill
Bendito
Loyal
Angels will no doubt have the same role through the Millenium, as they do now.
Brad Huber
Loyal
Yes, they have had roles to fulfill, extremely long term roles to fulfill, LONG before Adam was created in God's image. Those roles will continue. Some will include helping out here on earth, which was always their roles. The only ones roles mostly changing will be those evil angels thrown chained into the pit, to wait until the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth comes to and end.
KingJ
Loyal
I believe our understanding and view of angels is terrible. I then also believe many of us have a terrible view and understanding of God. God is not a tyrant or dictator who uses angels or us for that matter, as slaves.
I firmly believe there is a whole society of angels that are going about their 'own' business 24/7. They are created a little above us. Hence they will have interests very similar to our own. Sport, games, relationships, friendships, travel plans, building projects. They are not ''animals or robots''. They too have free will.
Paul says in 1 Cor 6:3 that we will one-day judge angels. So I guess all or many of them will work with us. They will choose to assist us running the earth during this period with Jesus.
It is nice to wonder about the future. I find it very interesting how so much scripture speaks to things we can relate to in the spiritual realm. The devil wore a crown of precious metals Eze 28:13, Jesus rides a horse, saints eat food / have a banquet in heaven. A lot will change and a lot will remain the same. Humans are humans and angels are angels. Neither of us are ''gods''. We are both creations with limitations. Abilities. Interests. I believe we will interact a lot with each other in heaven.
Angels don't have a ''role''. They have free will. They choose to participate in God's plans. Some don't participate as much as others. That is why there are ranks among angels. It is the same with us. Our non participation is not always grounds for the boot to hell either. This concept of serve or get the boot is ''braindead'' discernment of God.
Quantrill
Active
Actually, God is a Dictator. But that is always best.
As far as being 'slaves', we are bought and paid for. Arn't we? (1 Cor. 6:20)
Stranger
KingJ
Loyal
I never said He wasn't one.
Read the last part of that verse ''...So, you must honor God with your body''. The scriptural context of slavery is only in relation to sin. We are slaves of righteousness Rom 6:18.
What is ''right'' (and God is righteous in ''all'' He does Psalm 145:17) is no autocratic tyrannical leadership where peoples wishes or opinions are not taken into account. IE Slavery as African Americans experienced. Slavery as many assume angels need to obey / have a ...single role and purpose.
Quantrill
Active
Yes, you did. Go back and reread.
How can it, slavery, be only in relation to sin when we are slaves of righteousness? When we are bought and paid for?
Quantrill
KingJ
Loyal
Lol. No. My statement was ''God is not a dictator who uses angels as slaves''. That is not saying God is not a dictator. God is a dictator only in that He has absolute power.
The ''bought and paid for'' statement was raised when Paul was addressing people wanting to continue in sin. He contrasts slaves of sin with slaves of righteousness. Jesus paid the price we could not. He washed away our sins. Slaves of righteousness infers we submit easily to what is right. We repent quick if we sin. We are now sold-out to Jesus. We are new creations. This has absolutely nothing to do with ''absolute slavery to the Righteous one''. Or that we are now ''perfect'' as God is.
How you and others interpret or want to semi-push a ''slavery / do as you are told'' version of this is beyond me. You need to bring more scripture to the discussion.
God is Sovereign -- His plans Will take place. God Loves us and when He becomes our Savior / heavenly Father -- following His will / plan will be something we Want to do. Not something forced on us. Dictators are human beings with a will of their own. They Dictate and if their orders are not followed, there Will be a price to pay.
Quantrill
Active
Bought and paid for means you are bought and paid for. Rose it up however you like. Myself, it doesn't bother me to be a slave to God. After all, we do call Him LORD God, dont' we?
Quantrill
KingJ
Loyal
You cannot isolate 'bought and paid' from its context. Any reader will interpret it as partiality. We are all on the shelves in a shopping centre. God cherry picks some and pays for them at the counter. This is not Christianity.
It is a sweet thought to call ourselves slaves of God. I agree with that. Only as God has proven Himself to be far removed from tyrannical rulership.
Oh, so Now you're saying that God Does have absolute power -- that's omnipotence. Please make up your mind. Oh, but you say that He doesn't always choose to Use it. God Is God -- not a human being who Does change His mind. He IS in charge -- His 'control' -- He alone created this world and us. He Also gives us free will. Will that Also be the case during those 1,000 yrs. of His reigning here on earth? The free will.
KingJ
Loyal
I have always said God is omnipotent. The bible literally says it. It is not up for debate. You tie yourself up when you insert a full stop after that word.
God is omnipotent and God is good / righteous in all His ways. Hence God ''limits'' Himself, but is not ''limited''.
Your first line ''God is not a human who changes His mind'' leads you to make an assumption of ''He is in charge, in control''. Which causes a reader to assume you espouse limited / questionable / fake free will. You then say ''He gives us free will''. Whilst He is in full control? Your reply is one big confusing contradiction.
KingJ -- it's like a coin has two sides -- both sides of that coin are True -- there's another post I wrote that somehow -- either I didn't actually Post it or it got lost in the shuffle.
The Sovereignty of God. He has a plan for this world and everyone in it -- He knows exactly what's going to happen and when. Which Also means that He alone knows when and where I , myself, will accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior. I only have this present life-time To do that. No purgatory or anything like that. My last breath -- for every born-again believer Will put him in the presence of the Lord. That is eternal security -- once saved Always saved.
In My particular case -- I grew up in a conservative Baptist church , so I heard God's Word taught all the time. I had a Great 'head knowledge' of salvation. But it wasn't in my Heart until I was in jr. high. I had free will to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior in Spite of having experienced a lot of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. We went to a Big church. I was very shy and fought the urge to 'go forward' in order to have the pastor lead me to Christ. I wasn't a 'bad' kid at all. Nothing I'd Have to give up. There was no 'fake' free will being given to me -- it was God extending me His grace. After all -- until I Did accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior -- I was a sinner on my way to hell. God , alone, knew I was Not going to end up in hell.
and the moment I prayed , while in church, I told God that I didn't know for sure that I was a Christian -- and that I wanted to Make sure of that. And the instant I Did do that -- I felt a warmth in my heart -- it was Wonderful -- I knew that God Had indeed heard my prayer to Him and that the Holy Spirit really Had come to indwell me. Never any doubt since then. And I've Also felt the convicting of the Holy Spirit Many times when I've been a bit messed up. And there are some things I 'fight' off and on. Satan knows me and my weaknesses very well.
God does Not just give 'us' one chance to accept His way of salvation and then He's done with us. I'm proof of that. And That is the free will part. He exercises the free will by giving us those times of resisting Him Before we understand all that we , as an individual Needs to understand for our personal Salvation to take place.
so -- what You 'see' as contradiction is perfectly Clear to me.
What I was looking for in various threads of discussion was when you were talking about Calvinism being a heresy. You'd been very concerned about my Calvinistic ways of interpreting Scripture. I'd been sharing that Calvinism was brought into existence by Mr. John Calvin many years ago. His own interpretation of lots of Scripture. and Lots of people really took to it. But then Mr. Arminius responded Back to that with what has turned into being Arminianism. And That has lots of followers Also.
Apparently you are very familiar with 5-point Calvinism because you 'recognize' some of my comments as being very Calvinistic. And I've Also shared that I'm neither of these 'labels'.
there Are some people who Are very Calvinistic and proud of it. They Like that 'label'.
In Calvinism there is the TULIP. And a lot of that Is true.
You've commented that Calvinism is a dangerous heresy -- I'm commented Back that heresy is denying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And that the cross is Not sufficient for our personal salvation. And that good works are necessary on our part to complete our salvation. THAT is Wrong. That Would be heresy.
Calvinism does Not deny any of that. But he Does make comments like the blood of Christ is only sufficient for His elect. And John 3:16 says otherwise. 'Who so ever believeth on Him will be saved'.
So -- with the coin -- on One side -- God Does know every single person who will accept His gift of salvation. Election and predestination are tricky subjects to understand.
the Other side of the coin is that 'we' don't know who God's 'elect' are. We are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with Everyone - we don't force that on anyone. We Are to share though and it's up to the Holy Spirit what they do with that information being shared with them. A former son-in-law is a strong Calvinist -- he said that he Will share the Gospel but he Won't actually lead anyone to the Lord. that's the job of the Holy Spirit. And there is Another guy I'd known years ago. it's like if you're in the water and having problems swimming / in danger of drowning There's a boat close by with a life preserver in it. Someone throws a life preserver to you, but it doesn't quite get to you then you aren't really being 'saved'. If you'd have to reach for that life preserver then you're doing a 'work'. That the life preserver has to actually land around you and then you can be pulled to safety / salvation.
So -- please -- don't automatically label me as being a Calvinist just because I apply Scripture in some of the same ways. A label I Can work with is being a pre-tribulation rapture person.
I'm neither a Calvinist Or an Arminian -- I'm a Bible person who's a born-again believer and believe that OSAS. Eternal security of the believer.
The Sovereignty of God. He has a plan for this world and everyone in it -- He knows exactly what's going to happen and when. Which Also means that He alone knows when and where I , myself, will accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior. I only have this present life-time To do that. No purgatory or anything like that. My last breath -- for every born-again believer Will put him in the presence of the Lord. That is eternal security -- once saved Always saved.
In My particular case -- I grew up in a conservative Baptist church , so I heard God's Word taught all the time. I had a Great 'head knowledge' of salvation. But it wasn't in my Heart until I was in jr. high. I had free will to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior in Spite of having experienced a lot of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. We went to a Big church. I was very shy and fought the urge to 'go forward' in order to have the pastor lead me to Christ. I wasn't a 'bad' kid at all. Nothing I'd Have to give up. There was no 'fake' free will being given to me -- it was God extending me His grace. After all -- until I Did accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior -- I was a sinner on my way to hell. God , alone, knew I was Not going to end up in hell.
and the moment I prayed , while in church, I told God that I didn't know for sure that I was a Christian -- and that I wanted to Make sure of that. And the instant I Did do that -- I felt a warmth in my heart -- it was Wonderful -- I knew that God Had indeed heard my prayer to Him and that the Holy Spirit really Had come to indwell me. Never any doubt since then. And I've Also felt the convicting of the Holy Spirit Many times when I've been a bit messed up. And there are some things I 'fight' off and on. Satan knows me and my weaknesses very well.
God does Not just give 'us' one chance to accept His way of salvation and then He's done with us. I'm proof of that. And That is the free will part. He exercises the free will by giving us those times of resisting Him Before we understand all that we , as an individual Needs to understand for our personal Salvation to take place.
so -- what You 'see' as contradiction is perfectly Clear to me.
What I was looking for in various threads of discussion was when you were talking about Calvinism being a heresy. You'd been very concerned about my Calvinistic ways of interpreting Scripture. I'd been sharing that Calvinism was brought into existence by Mr. John Calvin many years ago. His own interpretation of lots of Scripture. and Lots of people really took to it. But then Mr. Arminius responded Back to that with what has turned into being Arminianism. And That has lots of followers Also.
Apparently you are very familiar with 5-point Calvinism because you 'recognize' some of my comments as being very Calvinistic. And I've Also shared that I'm neither of these 'labels'.
there Are some people who Are very Calvinistic and proud of it. They Like that 'label'.
In Calvinism there is the TULIP. And a lot of that Is true.
You've commented that Calvinism is a dangerous heresy -- I'm commented Back that heresy is denying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And that the cross is Not sufficient for our personal salvation. And that good works are necessary on our part to complete our salvation. THAT is Wrong. That Would be heresy.
Calvinism does Not deny any of that. But he Does make comments like the blood of Christ is only sufficient for His elect. And John 3:16 says otherwise. 'Who so ever believeth on Him will be saved'.
So -- with the coin -- on One side -- God Does know every single person who will accept His gift of salvation. Election and predestination are tricky subjects to understand.
the Other side of the coin is that 'we' don't know who God's 'elect' are. We are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with Everyone - we don't force that on anyone. We Are to share though and it's up to the Holy Spirit what they do with that information being shared with them. A former son-in-law is a strong Calvinist -- he said that he Will share the Gospel but he Won't actually lead anyone to the Lord. that's the job of the Holy Spirit. And there is Another guy I'd known years ago. it's like if you're in the water and having problems swimming / in danger of drowning There's a boat close by with a life preserver in it. Someone throws a life preserver to you, but it doesn't quite get to you then you aren't really being 'saved'. If you'd have to reach for that life preserver then you're doing a 'work'. That the life preserver has to actually land around you and then you can be pulled to safety / salvation.
So -- please -- don't automatically label me as being a Calvinist just because I apply Scripture in some of the same ways. A label I Can work with is being a pre-tribulation rapture person.
I'm neither a Calvinist Or an Arminian -- I'm a Bible person who's a born-again believer and believe that OSAS. Eternal security of the believer.