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(Pro. 8:30-31) Who is speaking? Who are the sons of men?

Quantrill

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In light of the subject matter in some other threads I believe these verses are important. But they deserve a thread of their own also.

(Prov. 8:30-31) "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

Quantrill
 
In light of the subject matter in some other threads I believe these verses are important. But they deserve a thread of their own also.

(Prov. 8:30-31) "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men."

Quantrill
It's wisdom speaking. The writer of Proverbs has created a poetic character - wisdom personified. God created the world with 'wisdom'. And those that find wisdom find life.
 
It's wisdom speaking. The writer of Proverbs has created a poetic character - wisdom personified. God created the world with 'wisdom'. And those that find wisdom find life.

You say 'wisdom is speaking' yet you say 'the writer has created a poetic character'. So, who is speaking? Solomon? Wisdom? The speaker said, 'I was by him'. Who is 'him'?

Who are the 'sons of men' in whom the speaker delights?

Quantrill
 
Here are a few other translations

(AMPC) Rejoicing in His inhabited earth and delighting in the sons of men. [Psa 16:3]
(ASV) Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men.
(CSB) I was rejoicing in his inhabited world, delighting in the children of Adam.
(ESV) rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.
(GNB) happy with the world and pleased with the human race.
(GW) found joy in his inhabited world, and delighted in the human race.
(HCSB) I was rejoicing in His inhabited world, delighting in the human race.
(KJV) Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
(MKJV) rejoicing in the world, His earth; and my delight was with the sons of men.
(MSG) Delighted with the world of things and creatures, happily celebrating the human family.
(NAS77) Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
(NASB) Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.
(NIrV) His whole world filled me with joy. I took delight in all human beings.
(NIV) rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
 
Consider (Ps. 22:1-22). Here again, who is speaking? David? Jesus? Is this Psalm about David or Jesus?

Quantrill
 
"Most" (but not all) of the prophecies in the Bible are parallel prophecies.

Meaning it has more than one application. In this case it is both Jesus and David.
 
You say 'wisdom is speaking' yet you say 'the writer has created a poetic character'. So, who is speaking? Solomon? Wisdom? The speaker said, 'I was by him'. Who is 'him'?

Who are the 'sons of men' in whom the speaker delights?

Quantrill
Go back to verse 12.

The author is the compiler of Solomon's proverbs. The character speaking is wisdom. Sons of man are humans.

Get to grips with the primary structure and meaning of a passage; once that's secure we can see how it fits within the bible story that centres on Jesus.
 
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Since Jesus is the power, and wisdom of God, (1 Cor 1:24) then it would be Jesus speaking through Solomon. If Jesus created all things then surely he would "rejoice" in what he himself has made.
Wisdom dwells inside of the heart of the man who has understanding, which would be Jesus (wisdom) in man! (Pro 14:33)

Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.
 
"Most" (but not all) of the prophecies in the Bible are parallel prophecies.

Meaning it has more than one application. In this case it is both Jesus and David.

And are the things spoken of true of Jesus in this prophecy, (Ps. 22)?

Quantrill
 
Go back to verse 12.

The author is the compiler of Solomon's proverbs. The character speaking is wisdom. Sons of man are humans.

Get to grips with the primary structure and meaning of a passage; once that's secure we can see how it fits within the bible story that centres on Jesus.

I didn't ask who the author of (Proverbs) is. I asked who is speaking in (Proverbs 8:1-31). You first say it is poetry, which means Solomon is the speaker. You now indicate it is the compiler of Solomon's proverbs. Which again makes it but a human writing and nothing but fanciful literature.

I have 'grips' on Old Testament prophecy. Do you? Do you understand that the writer of Old Testament prophecy can be writing and not knowing exactly what God is saying in that writing? (1 Peter 1:10) Why is that? Because the Spirit of God is writing and begins speaking of another and of things unknown to the human writer. The voice can change between verses in an instant. It becomes not just something to be applied to Christ, but that Christ is speaking.

Do you have a 'grip' on that? Let me know when that is secure so we can move forward.

Quantrill
 
I didn't ask who the author of (Proverbs) is. I asked who is speaking in (Proverbs 8:1-31). You first say it is poetry, which means Solomon is the speaker. You now indicate it is the compiler of Solomon's proverbs. Which again makes it but a human writing and nothing but fanciful literature.

I have 'grips' on Old Testament prophecy. Do you? Do you understand that the writer of Old Testament prophecy can be writing and not knowing exactly what God is saying in that writing? (1 Peter 1:10) Why is that? Because the Spirit of God is writing and begins speaking of another and of things unknown to the human writer. The voice can change between verses in an instant. It becomes not just something to be applied to Christ, but that Christ is speaking.

Do you have a 'grip' on that? Let me know when that is secure so we can move forward.
,
Quantrill
Instead of responding to every post with a barrage of questions, why not say what you want to say? I've answered your questions correctly so far. You've either misconstrued or misunderstood my responses and started to get snappy. It's not very pleasant conversing with you.
 
Since Jesus is the power, and wisdom of God, (1 Cor 1:24) then it would be Jesus speaking through Solomon. If Jesus created all things then surely he would "rejoice" in what he himself has made.
Wisdom dwells inside of the heart of the man who has understanding, which would be Jesus (wisdom) in man! (Pro 14:33)

Pro 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man.

Yes, wisdom here in (Pro. 8) is the Personification of a Person, and that Person is the Son of God. But it is not speaking to Jesus or wisdom dwelling in man at this time. It is addressing a time in eternity past. (8:22-30) "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water....Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;"

And lest anyone think this is my idea that this speaks to the Son of God, here are some quotes.

From (Proverbs, Charles Bridges, Banner of Truth, 1981) "Listen we now to the calls of heavenly Wisdom--to the voice of the Son of God." p. (72)

(Bridges) "Whether Solomon fully understood his own words, may be a question. 1 Peter 1:10,11. But receiving the words as from God; weighing their natural force; comparing them with Scripture parallels, we doubt not that they describe--not an attribute, but a Person--Eternal--Omniscient--in the most endearing relation to man--his Creator--Mediator--Saviour." p. (72)

Concerning the verses (Pro. 8:22-30) Bridges says, "It must be a perverted imagination that can suppose an attribute here. So glorious are the rays of eternal supreme Deity, distinct personality, and essential unity, that the mysterious, ever-blessed Being--'the Word, who was in the beginning with God, and was God' (John, 1:1,2)--now undoubtedly stands before us." p. (79)

From ( A Commentary, Jamieson, Fausset,Brown, Erdmans, 1990) "But the parallel (John 1:1-3) makes it more likely that Christ is here viewed, not in His predestined humanity, but in His uncreated essence as the Word eternally with God." p. (439)

Prophecy not only looks to future things, but it can also take us back to eternity past, as these verses in Proverbs do. And when you read (Pro. 8:22-30) you see that eternity past is the time element we are in here. This is all before the creation of the earth and at the creation of the earth. Wisdom, The Son, was by Him, and with Him and was the delight of Him. (30)

And of this time period, eternity past, before man ever entered the picture, we are told in (Pro. 8:31) that Wisdom, The Son, was "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." Yet no man existed at this time. Yet, as the Father delights in the Son, the Son is delighting in the sons of men. What men? The men that are already known to God. The men who are of God.

(Jameison, Fausset, Brown) "Already, even before men were created, He regarded them as existing, because of the electing purpose of God concerning His people in whom is His delight." p. (440)

It is these that are 'of God'. They are the children, sons, of God. It is these that are 'from above' as their origin is from God. They are 'from above' as Christ is 'from above'. It is these that are the 'sheep of Christ', who hear and know His voice. Who believe because they are His sheep. It is these that were 'lost' in the fall of Adam.

These were never children of the devil. They were always children of God.

Quantrill
 
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