Predestined?
- Thread starter Butch5
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Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh?
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If the Bible says ".....God can not be tempted with evil....."(James 1:13) And if Jesus was God then how could he be tempted?
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I didn't say that.
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Can you define God? Do you mean Deity or do you mean the Father?
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That's the question. Do you have the answer?
Being tempted isn't the problem -- giving Into the temptation is the problem.
You're trying to put God on Our level. He isn't.
The question -- concept being talked about is the hypostatic union. Jesus Christ being the God Man on this earth. He had Both natures.
You asked about defining God. God Is the Father. It's not either or. God Is Deity. God The Father.
Jesus Christ -- the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived -- Jesus Christ was Both man and God incarnate -- that's the Only way that Jesus Christ Could effectively die on the cross with our sins upon Himself -- shed His blood for our sins. And then rise again bodily from the dead.
You're trying to put God on Our level. He isn't.
The question -- concept being talked about is the hypostatic union. Jesus Christ being the God Man on this earth. He had Both natures.
You asked about defining God. God Is the Father. It's not either or. God Is Deity. God The Father.
Jesus Christ -- the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived -- Jesus Christ was Both man and God incarnate -- that's the Only way that Jesus Christ Could effectively die on the cross with our sins upon Himself -- shed His blood for our sins. And then rise again bodily from the dead.
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You said God is the Father. Then you said Jesus is God incarnate. How is that?
The answer is simple, before Jesus became Man, He was deity because He was the Word and the Word was God. (John 1:1) But when He became Man He was fully flesh and only flesh. There are no Scriptures to say He still retained His deity while walking on earth. John 1:1 clearly said the Word (Jesus) WAS God, which means when He became flesh He gave up His deity. If not He could not be tempted.
Look at Matthew 1:18 - 24 for context -- vs 21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." vs 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet saying ,"vs 23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated "God with us".
That is 'how is that'. That's what incarnate means.
That is 'how is that'. That's what incarnate means.
Enxu -- if He Didn't retain His deity while here on earth -- He could not have died with our sins and gone to hell in our place and risen again bodily. That was the whole reason He did come to earth as the Son of God. -- the Spirit of God In the flesh.
In the Scriptures it writes that the Spirit of God came upon Jesus after being baptised by John the Baptist. (Mark 1:10) The Spirit of God never became flesh. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us (talking about Jesus) as said in John 1:14. I also don’t find any Scriptures for the other points you’ve made.
In fact, if Jesus retained His deity, He could not die for our sins because first God cannot be tempted and second God cannot die like flesh can. But because Jesus was fully flesh and only flesh when He walked the earth He could die as flesh and being sinless He became the perfect atonement for sin.
Yes, in Mark 1:9 - 12 -- vs 10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. Then a voice came from heaven,"you are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
What I was saying is that God is Spirit.
Look at Luke 1:31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son, and shall call His name Jesus. vs 35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."
John 1;1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word Was God. vs 2 He was in the beginning with God. "
The Godhead // God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
What I was saying is that God is Spirit.
Look at Luke 1:31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son, and shall call His name Jesus. vs 35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God."
John 1;1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word Was God. vs 2 He was in the beginning with God. "
The Godhead // God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
The points you made that have no Scriptural backing are as follows:
1) Jesus went to hell in our place. There are no Scriptures about this at all.
2) The Spirit of God in the flesh. John 1:14 clearly states it is the Word that became flesh. furthermore Scriptures also said the Spirit of God came upon Jesus like a Dove as I mentioned in my previous post.
Since God is Spirit, then Jesus as a Man cannot have retained any deity if not why does He still need the Spirit of God to descend upon Him? He on His own is completely and only flesh but He did have the Spirit of God in Him while He preached the Gospel. Having the Spirit of God in Him does not mean He retained deity. In fact when He was nailed on the cross He cried out at one point saying “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) No doubt He was talking about the Spirit of God no longer with Him. Yet if He retained any deity inside Himself He would not have made such a cry.
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The first thing that must be understood was that God was "in" Christ reconciling the world unto himself.
2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Inside of the "man" Jesus God was reconciling the world unto himself. Jesus had a physical body, with a physical brain that had to learn just like we do, yet inside of his body, God lived. All Born again Christians have the same God living inside them.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
That God inside Jesus could never be tempted to do evil because God can not be tempted with evil as the scripture says in James. We know for sure Jesus was really tempted because of this verse.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
If God can not be tempted with evil, then what part of Jesus was tempted?
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
If Jesus was tempted just like we are then his temptations where only that which is "common to man" What do all men have in common with each other?
All men do not have God living in them, but all men have a "human" nature that is common to all men that can be tempted!
Jesus's human nature was tempted with evil, but the God part of Jesus could never be tempted.
Take a look at 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 "I declare unto you the Gospel ......by which also you are saved.......that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures ....and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. vs 17 And it Christ is not risen, your faith is futile ' you are still i your sins. "
Jesus on His own is only flesh, and the Spirit of God in Him is God the Father. Jesus was tempted but the Spirit of God in Him cannot be tempted because God cannot be tempted as the Scriptures said. But Jesus as a Man did not have two natures, this is false and unbiblical. When He was nailed on the cross He cried out at one point saying “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46) Here He was talking about the Spirit of God no longer with Him. If He had two natures then why did He cry out to His “God nature” asking why it has forsaken Him? This is absurd. So clearly Jesus is Man (flesh) and He does not have two natures.
