who are those that came out of the great tribulation????

[PloughBoy]

The Word of God teaches us exactly to do good and harm none. If we let Him in, He comes in for exactly this: be good, and wrong none.


1 John 3:7
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.

And how does a person discern "good" from "evil" The worlds good is different from the Good that is discribe by GOD. and The bible also says there no one who does good. and Those are the Words of Jesus. Is that a Paradox, of course not. we need the word of God to determine what is good and what is evil.

 

[PloughBoy]

Is not letting the Word of God not dweling in you evil or Good? If we attack the WORD of GOD, by saying or believing the word is not true and refused to adhere to it. How can we live it, It is impossibe to bear fruit if we do not abide in the vine. You cannot do good acts without it. It may look good to those on the outside, but the heart might have selfish intentions. Even for brownie points from God.

 

[twcstp111]

Is not letting the Word of God not dweling in you evil or Good? If we attack the WORD of GOD, by saying or believing the word is not true and refused to adhere to it. How can we live it, It is impossibe to bear fruit if we do not abide in the vine. You cannot do good acts without it. It may look good to those on the outside, but the heart might have selfish intentions. Even for brownie points from God.

I was able to discern between good and evil very well before I started reading the word of my own accord. I am by no means attacking the Word--I am stating plainly what the Word is teaching us, and those who live by those principles are already living by His word. A person is not saved because they say that they are saved, they are saved because they love others. Also, who else can look into a persons heart, except it were God? Not one of us can look into another's heart, and so those things hidden to us are between them and God.

How can I tell a righteous man, who does what is right and what is good, that he must be saved, when he is doing what those who have been saved are doing? Jesus--Jesus taught us most importantly to love one another, and this is the foundation of His ministry.

Quote:
And we have known and believed the love that God hath for us. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

[Hekuran]

i dont see that the Great tribualtion has happened yet, as I see the book of revelation mostly as a prophecy yet to be fufilled

My big question about this view is: what was the relevance of the John's vision to the people that he wrote to? How would a set of prophecies concerning events that are not to happen for 2,000 years help a community that's struggling day-by-day with severe persecution?

 

[Dave M]

John's vision to the people that he wrote to?

I guess we would have to determine who he wrote it to, I see it as written to the people who will be in the age of end times, to warn them. The bible is for everyone not just the people of the time when John was alive. As brother Ray says this is about the great tribulation we have never seen it before or never will again, that has not happened yet.

as for helping those during the times, he wrote them the letters telling them what they needed to due, repent and endure to the end, with details of what to repent from.

I wonder if sometime we complicate things, the truth is usally very simple not complicated

 

[PloughBoy]

I was able to discern between good and evil very well before I started reading the word of my own accord. I am by no means attacking the Word--I am stating plainly what the Word is teaching us, and those who live by those principles are already living by His word. A person is not saved because they say that they are saved, they are saved because they love others. Also, who else can look into a persons heart, except it were God? Not one of us can look into another's heart, and so those things hidden to us are between them and God.

How can I tell a righteous man, who does what is right and what is good, that he must be saved, when he is doing what those who have been saved are doing? Jesus--Jesus taught us most importantly to love one another, and this is the foundation of His ministry.

Quote:
And we have known and believed the love that God hath for us. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

People are saved because they love another. "Where did get that from"? That statements go's against the words of God the Father and The Son of God. That makes my God a liar. Where are you getting all this! Oh I forgot. "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism". So we can never come to agreement in this matter. My God is different from yours. Your God and my God ways are totally different. My God says: "the heart desperately wicked" And that he would teach "His sons and his daughter how to one another" and that he would give us a "new heart". Not them, but us. And salvation is a gift and not earn. My God say: you cannot do nothing to saved your own life. "For we are saved by grace and not of yourselves".
Maybe you have not read that yet, or study the doctrine of "Salvation" or the doctrine of Grace yet and the doctrine of the "Atonement", "Regeneration", those Jesus said:,who would follow him in the Regeneration.
These are part of "The Armor of GOD", "Therefore put on the whole Armor of GOD"! The reason you need The Armor of GOD on, because this "Warfare"! 'Ain't no kissing going on in a foxhole'. This is not worldly love, this is "Agape", this kind of love, will cost you, your life!

 

[Sue D.]

Loving one another does NOT save a person. We Are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and then our neighbor as ourselves.

We Will have a love For others Because we are saved. How does one Get saved. 1 Corinthians 15:1-3 or so. To be saved -- believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- that He died on the cross and that He was buried and that He rose again the third day -- according to the Scripture." It's a personal acceptance in the person's heart -- acknowledging your personal sinfulness and not able to save yourself. The cross / shedding of human blood for our sins. Thanking God For His gift of salvation. Accepting His salvation.

 

[Hekuran]

I guess we would have to determine who he wrote it to, I see it as written to the people who will be in the age of end times, to warn them. The bible is for everyone not just the people of the time when John was alive. As brother Ray says this is about the great tribulation we have never seen it before or never will again, that has not happened yet.

as for helping those during the times, he wrote them the letters telling them what they needed to due, repent and endure to the end, with details of what to repent from.

I wonder if sometime we complicate things, the truth is usally very simple not complicated

Two things:

We know who the Revelation was written to, the seven churches addressed directly in the opening chapters. We can check the history books to see what was happening at the time under the emperor Domitian. The book had a specific message at a particular time for those people and a universal message for all us.

The phrase about a tribulation that has never been seen before or never seen again comes from the gospel according to Matthew and needs to be treated with a bit of sensitivity. Jesus, I think, is talking in the style of the prophets, which frequently involves dramatic and heightened descriptions. Take for example Isaiah's description of the destruction on Edom, which took place around 600BC (Isaiah 34)

Their slain shall be cast out,
and the stench of their corpses shall rise;
the mountains shall flow with their blood.
All the host of heaven shall rot away,
and the skies roll up like a scroll.
All their host shall wither
like a leaf withering on a vine,
or fruit withering on a fig tree.

We know that the sky did not literally roll up, nor did the night stars rot away. Isaiah is using highly figurative and exaggerated language to foretell the destruction.

Nor did the mountains literally skip like rams at the time of the exodus (ps114).

If you take this into account, Jesus prophecy about the judgement of Jerusalem within a generation fits the facts with the AD70 destruction.

 

[Sue D.]

Is not "Day of The Lord" & Jacob's Trouble" and "The Great Tribulation" most likely the same event. I got that picture just by reading the Bible from front to back on multiple occasions. and some events that is taken in Heaven, That the Bible by snap shot as a Puzzle that has been put together in your "spiritual mind" by The "Spirit of GOD" and the unveiling Of "Jesus Christ"! "Let this mind be in you as it is was in Christ Jesus" Do not the Bible say; we have the mind of Christ. Then why are we divided?

(Phil. 2).
1Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in very nature a God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature b of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

If one has the whole "Word of GOD" in them, and another has only parts, how can they be of one mind. How can they have the same "JOY"? How can they have the same goal? And if One has the whole story and another has only certain events, How can they have the same mind, and another say, you do not need all of that, then how can they come to the same conclusion. Is there not "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism" and Only, One Way", to get there?

No one alive in this world will Ever have complete understanding of God's Word. That person would Be God. And there is only One God. God alone has All knowledge. Every one should be in a continual learning mode of God's Word.

Only one way to heaven -- yes. Agreement on that one way for salvation and that there is a heaven / hell in each person's eternal future. And the Only way to get To heaven and stay Out of hell. Beyond That -- there Will be disagreements.

 

[PloughBoy]

No one alive in this world will Ever have complete understanding of God's Word. That person would Be God. And there is only One God. God alone has All knowledge. Every one should be in a continual learning mode of God's Word.

Only one way to heaven -- yes. Agreement on that one way for salvation and that there is a heaven / hell in each person's eternal future. And the Only way to get To heaven and stay Out of hell. Beyond That -- there Will be disagreements.

And!

 

[Sue D.]

"And" and What?

 

[PloughBoy]

"And" and What?

And

 

[Sue D.]

And

I'm not in the mood for playing games.

 

[twcstp111]

People are saved because they love another. "Where did get that from"? That statements go's against the words of God the Father and The Son of God. That makes my God a liar. Where are you getting all this! Oh I forgot. "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism". So we can never come to agreement in this matter. My God is different from yours. Your God and my God ways are totally different. My God says: "the heart desperately wicked" And that he would teach "His sons and his daughter how to one another" and that he would give us a "new heart". Not them, but us. And salvation is a gift and not earn. My God say: you cannot do nothing to saved your own life. "For we are saved by grace and not of yourselves".
Maybe you have not read that yet, or study the doctrine of "Salvation" or the doctrine of Grace yet and the doctrine of the "Atonement", "Regeneration", those Jesus said:,who would follow him in the Regeneration.
These are part of "The Armor of GOD", "Therefore put on the whole Armor of GOD"! The reason you need The Armor of GOD on, because this "Warfare"! 'Ain't no kissing going on in a foxhole'. This is not worldly love, this is "Agape", this kind of love, will cost you, your life!

Friend,

My God and your God are the same God, and I will never call your God a liar, ever.


1 Peter 4:8 ESV / 1,776 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

Colossians 3:14 ESV / 1,714 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

1 John 4:8 ESV / 1,905 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


Friend, you already know that I am for you and not against you. Differences can no longer keep me from having love in my heart for you, even you, whom I do not know.

John 13:34-35 ESV / 1,643 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”


Consider this:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body, but have not love, I gain nothing.…


and this:
Matthew 22:36-40 ESV / 1,151 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Bless you.

 

[PloughBoy]

Friend,

My God and your God are the same God, and I will never call your God a liar, ever.


1 Peter 4:8 ESV / 1,776 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

Colossians 3:14 ESV / 1,714 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

1 John 4:8 ESV / 1,905 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


Friend, you already know that I am for you and not against you. Differences can no longer keep me from having love in my heart for you, even you, whom I do not know.

John 13:34-35 ESV / 1,643 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”


Consider this:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body, but have not love, I gain nothing.…


and this:
Matthew 22:36-40 ESV / 1,151 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Bless you.

ok, well every thing i said about him is true, in my post. So you are in agreement of what i have said concerning him, good.

 

[PloughBoy]

I'm not in the mood for playing games.

Sue you said this for a reason, and I do not know why you said it, You had to have a reason for saying it. And the "and" Meant. "and" I Do Not Know What your point it is. you have not completed your direction. I cannot quess your point.

Sue D. said:
"No one alive in this world will Ever have complete understanding of God's Word. That person would Be God. And there is only One God. God alone has All knowledge. Every one should be in a continual learning mode of God's Word.

Only one way to heaven -- yes. Agreement on that one way for salvation and that there is a heaven / hell in each person's eternal future. And the Only way to get To heaven and stay Out of hell. Beyond That -- there Will be disagreements."

And now you are accusing me of "playing Games" and I am quiet.

I am not trying to pick a fight with you. I am not questioning whatever you say. I am not commenting of what you say!

In a moment , I might , most likely get a post: declaring I must answer you or get reprimanded.

hey I am scared to reply to you in any fashion!

So I am being 'quick to hear and slow to speak" and trying my best to stay out of your way, in the "spirit of agape'.

 

[PloughBoy]

Friend,

My God and your God are the same God, and I will never call your God a liar, ever.


1 Peter 4:8 ESV / 1,776 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

Colossians 3:14 ESV / 1,714 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

1 John 4:8 ESV / 1,905 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


Friend, you already know that I am for you and not against you. Differences can no longer keep me from having love in my heart for you, even you, whom I do not know.

John 13:34-35 ESV / 1,643 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”


Consider this:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and exult in the surrender of my body, but have not love, I gain nothing.…


and this:
Matthew 22:36-40 ESV / 1,151 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”


Bless you.

 

[Sue D.]

@PloughBoy -- look back at posts #50 - 53 -- no one is going to get reprimanded for anything. Another message is coming through.

 

[PloughBoy]

Friend

 

[Dave M]

well to me scripture says there is a great falling away at end times not revival, Revelation says several times NO ONE repents, so the only conclusion I can draw is those coming out of the great tribulation are people who are born again before the tribualtion. Which goes against the most common theory you here,, which is that those were the people that came to Christ during the tribulation, but I just dont see any scripture that lines up with that..

And if we look at the similarities of the tribulation ,,to the time Moses sent the plagues on the Egypt,, we also see no one repenting.

Matthew 24:10–12

10 And then many will fall away1 and nbetray one another and hate one another. 11 And many ofalse prophets will arise pand lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, qthe love of many will grow cold.