Sins cannot be charged!
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
Born Again 2004
Active
Sure, wasn't it also said in the Bible that your faith is dead without works? Same thing applies to verse 10 above. Works here is not something you do but the Holy Spirit does through you. The works that you are always demanding, is that works from you or the Holy Sprit working through you?
Admon Mikha'el
Active
Actually sir...I do believe. I believe and agree with every single word, comma, period and apostraphe in the entire Bible....Its you I don't always agree with. You're a brother but you are no preacher, no scholar, and certainly no prophet...What you teach is not always bible. Its doctrines of man.
Born Again 2004
Active
1. Is Ephesians 2: 8-9 doctrine of Man?
2. What does Ephesians 2: 8-9 say to you
3. Do you discern every single word, comma, period and apostrophe of the entire Bible because of you or the Holy Spirit?
Admon Mikha'el
Active
I don't rely on my intellect to learn the things of the spirit.
Romans 8:3-6 CJB
3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, 4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. 5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom.
You can read that in your own version too.
Born Again 2004
Active
I really don't think you know anything of the Spirit...you say your a "BIBLE" man but the Spirit won't let you comment on Ephesians 2: 8-9 verse, instead you quote (and I say YOU, not the Holy Spirit) another verse in Romans 8:3-6. This verse is good and correct but it has nothing to do with our discussion...and I really don't think the Holy Spirit offered that up as a reply!
Simply reply to Ephesians 2: 8-9. If you don't, maybe we could just agree that Jesus is Lord and Savior!
complete
Loyal
@Born Again 2004
@B-A-C
@Admon Mikha'el
Hello there,
Ephesians 2:-
(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved )
(6) .. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(7) .... That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
* Believing is 'faith obedience' or 'the obedience of faith': which is not a work but the outworking of faith, surely.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
@B-A-C
@Admon Mikha'el
Hello there,
Ephesians 2:-
(5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved )
(6) .. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
(7) .... That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
* Believing is 'faith obedience' or 'the obedience of faith': which is not a work but the outworking of faith, surely.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Brightfame52
Active
So did Christ die for them who never believe and consequently die in their sins ? Jn 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Brightfame52
Active
Yes, but He said it was Gods Work to do !
complete
Loyal
'But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.'
(Rom 5:8-10)
Hello @Brightfame52,
Forgive me @Admon Mikha'el: Yes, Christ did die for those who will never believe, but they are not able to access the salvation that sacrifice secured, because of their unbelief: so yes, they will die in their sins.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
B-A-C
Loyal
From post #150 again.
Getting saved... no you're right. Staying saved... it costs us everything.
Luke 14:27; "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:28; "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
Luke 14:29; "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
Luke 14:30; saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
Luke 14:31; "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
Luke 14:32; "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
Luke 14:33; "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
Can you tell me what these two parables mean to you?
Matt 25:14 "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
Matt 25:15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Matt 25:16 "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
Matt 25:17 "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
Matt 25:18 "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Matt 25:19 "Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
Matt 25:20 "The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
Matt 25:21 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:22 "Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
Matt 25:23 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:24 "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
Mat 25:33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
Mat 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Mat 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Mat 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Getting saved... no you're right. Staying saved... it costs us everything.
Luke 14:27; "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:28; "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
Luke 14:29; "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
Luke 14:30; saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
Luke 14:31; "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
Luke 14:32; "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
Luke 14:33; "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
Can you tell me what these two parables mean to you?
Matt 25:14 "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
Matt 25:15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Matt 25:16 "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
Matt 25:17 "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
Matt 25:18 "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Matt 25:19 "Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
Matt 25:20 "The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
Matt 25:21 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:22 "Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
Matt 25:23 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:24 "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
Mat 25:33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
Mat 25:38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Mat 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Mat 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
B-A-C
Loyal
From post #152 above.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
All seeds that start to grow and start to bear fruit do not finish what they start.
Is it Jesus's fault they fell away and quit believing, or was it their own fault?
We can't bear any fruit without Jesus, that's true, but did the second seed start to bear fruit? Yet it did not finish the fruit.
Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"
You can't bear fruit without Jesus, but even with Jesus helping some people, fertilizing them, watering them, plowing their soil... they still refuse to bear fruit.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
All seeds that start to grow and start to bear fruit do not finish what they start.
Is it Jesus's fault they fell away and quit believing, or was it their own fault?
We can't bear any fruit without Jesus, that's true, but did the second seed start to bear fruit? Yet it did not finish the fruit.
Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"
You can't bear fruit without Jesus, but even with Jesus helping some people, fertilizing them, watering them, plowing their soil... they still refuse to bear fruit.
Born Again 2004
Active
That is so odd @B-A-C , is it just me or did you just quote that everything above about Faith is a work from God?
B-A-C
Loyal
Demas and the 72.
Most people don't know about Demas. He's only mentioned a few times.
Col 4:14; Luke, the beloved physician, sends you his greetings, and also Demas.
Luke is of course the person who wrote Luke and Acts. But who is this Demas?
Phm 1:23; Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, greets you,
Phm 1:24; as do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, Luke, my fellow workers.
Paul says he is a fellow worker in his ministry.
2Tim 4:10; for Demas, having loved this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica; Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.
But by the time we get to Timothy, Demas deserts Paul and quits the ministry. (because he loved this present world, more than he loved God)
========================
Then we have the seventy (some Bibles say seventy-two)
Luke 10:1; Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.
Luke 10:17; The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Luke 10:19; "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.
Luke 10:20; "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."
These people had power to cast out Demons, Jesus even says their names are recorded in heaven. But later...
John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68; Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
Almost all of them leave Him, Jesus asks he twelve, are you going to leave me also? (and yet 1 of them betrays Him later)
Most people don't know about Demas. He's only mentioned a few times.
Col 4:14; Luke, the beloved physician, sends you his greetings, and also Demas.
Luke is of course the person who wrote Luke and Acts. But who is this Demas?
Phm 1:23; Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, greets you,
Phm 1:24; as do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, Luke, my fellow workers.
Paul says he is a fellow worker in his ministry.
2Tim 4:10; for Demas, having loved this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica; Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.
But by the time we get to Timothy, Demas deserts Paul and quits the ministry. (because he loved this present world, more than he loved God)
========================
Then we have the seventy (some Bibles say seventy-two)
Luke 10:1; Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.
Luke 10:17; The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Luke 10:19; "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.
Luke 10:20; "Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."
These people had power to cast out Demons, Jesus even says their names are recorded in heaven. But later...
John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68; Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
Almost all of them leave Him, Jesus asks he twelve, are you going to leave me also? (and yet 1 of them betrays Him later)
B-A-C
Loyal
The disciples didn't ask Jesus what does God do, they asked what do we need to do, in order to do the "works of God". (the work God wants done).
B-A-C
Loyal
If they believe "for a while" they access that salvation "for a while". But if they turn away, yes they will die in their sins.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
1Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22; Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
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complete
Loyal
Hello B-A-C,
Why are you using the words, 'for a while' in relation to my post, in which I said (quote):- [ 'Yes, Christ did die for those who will never believe, but they are not able to access the salvation which that sacrifice secured, because of their unbelief: so yes, they will die in their sins. '] For I was not responding to your reference to the parables? Or to 1 Timothy 4: 1 and Romans 11:20-22.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
B-A-C
Loyal
I think when we say they "never had access" to Jesus salvation, we perpetuate the idea that God is partisan.
Jesus died for everyone and everyone has access to it. Some simply choose not to accept it.
complete
Loyal
Hello @B-A-C,
I have said no other! The unbelieving deprive themselves of the salvation that God has made available to all mankind through their refusal to believe the gospel of God concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ.
I wish you would actually read what is said, B-A-C.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris