Is Ravi Zacharias in Hell?

[Sue D.]

@Downunder -- what do the verses that you've included have to do with eternal security of the believer.

And what about Ephesians 1:13 - 14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. vs 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

That is eternal security -- the Holy Spirit coming to indwell the believer at the moment of their salvation and keeping them in Christ until we are with Jesus Christ.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit Does change a person's desires, etc. the person is no longer a slave to his sinful nature. Has a new nature in Christ Jesus.

For some reason , this post is getting posted twice.

 

[Sue D.]

@Admon -- there's no such thing as soul sleep -- a person either 'wakes up' in Hades or is with Jesus Christ.

 

[KingJ]

Where in scripture does it tell us to propagate gossip and false witness? We are perpetuating allegations and allegations are not evidence. T.

We are not gossiping, this is a public platform. We are not bearing false witness, why do you say that?

Therefore, as in man's court, there is no thing to judge among God's people

Paul says we must judge each other 1 Cor 6 and he does it in 1 Cor 5.

Wanting Christians to stick their heads in the ground like ostriches is on par with asking an atheist to grasp intelligent design. Christians judge and discern all day long. It is Christianity 101.

The only Christians I have come across that don't want ''judging and discerning'' are those who continue in mortal sins.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

@Admon -- there's no such thing as soul sleep -- a person either 'wakes up' in Hades or is with Jesus Christ.

Right...I was wondering why someone would say Ravi was sleeping until....

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

@Admon -- there's no such thing as soul sleep -- a person either 'wakes up' in Hades or is with Jesus Christ.

Right...I was wondering why someone would say Ravi was sleeping until....

We are not gossiping, this is a public platform. We are not bearing false witness, why do you say that?

Paul says we must judge each other 1 Cor 6 and he does it in 1 Cor 5.

Wanting Christians to stick their heads in the ground like ostriches is on par with asking an atheist to grasp intelligent design. Christians judge and discern all day long. It is Christianity 101.

The only Christians I have come across that don't want ''judging and discerning'' are those who continue in mortal sins.

Yes This IS gossip....the allegations are not proven...all of the sources are Democrat media people...You KNOW that the Dems are out to splatter religion especially Christianity....And this helps them.

 

[Cactus Kitten]

We are not gossiping, this is a public platform. We are not bearing false witness, why do you say that?

Do you know how the word Gossip is defined?

Paul says we must judge each other 1 Cor 6 and he does it in 1 Cor 5.

Wanting Christians to stick their heads in the ground like ostriches is on par with asking an atheist to grasp intelligent design. Christians judge and discern all day long. It is Christianity 101.

The only Christians I have come across that don't want to ''judge and discern'' all matters are those who continue in mortal sins.

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 ESV

 

[Cactus Kitten]

@Admon -- there's no such thing as soul sleep -- a person either 'wakes up' in Hades or is with Jesus Christ.

Many who believe in soul sleep do so due to the scriptures referring to death being sleep.
Matthew 27:52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Do you know how the word Gossip is defined?

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 ESV

The bible does NOT say to judge others at all, though it does say to judge among ourselves.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The bible does NOT say to judge others at all, though it does say to judge among ourselves.

Oops That came out in the wrong place...

 

[Downunder]

Proverbs 18:8 The words of a whisperer are like delicious morsels; they go down into the inner parts of the body.

Proverbs 26:28 A lying tongue hates its victims, and a flattering mouth works ruin.

Proverbs 30:10 Do not slander a servant to his master, lest he curse you, and you be held guilty.

 

[KingJ]

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 ESV

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I feel you need to better read replies here. Nobody is speaking evil about Ravi. The context of ''judging'' here is a long reply. I will just say it has to do with sentencing / punishing from vindictiveness.

 

[KingJ]

Yes This IS gossip....the allegations are not proven...all of the sources are Democrat media people...You KNOW that the Dems are out to splatter religion especially Christianity....And this helps them.

We all saw it with Trump. I am 100% in agreement with you. Good point.

 

[Waggles]

@Admon -- there's no such thing as soul sleep -- a person either 'wakes up' in Hades or is with Jesus Christ.

Read your Bible for the scriptures clearly teach that the dead sleep awaiting resurrection.

 

[KingJ]

Read your Bible for the scriptures clearly teach that the dead sleep awaiting resurrection.

Read your bible properly and you will find it is not the case.

Why don't you start a thread on it and we discuss there. Don't derail this one.

 

[Russ Niewiarowski]

Very interesting discussion. They are discussing the Ravi Z scandal that came
out after his death.

Full report on the investigation is here.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/rzimmedia.rzim.org/assets/downloads/Report-of-Investigation.pdf

Reminds me that we are all sinners and need to guard our hearts and beware of giving the devil any foothold in your life.

Our faith is in Jesus, not in our leaders, yet we need to be honest with our struggles and ask for help if we are struggling with sin.

Jesus Christ alone is Judge and everyone will Stand before Him. I would say without a doubt that Jim Jones is in hell. He fooled thousands into believing he was their father, savior and god. At his final hour he ordered his followers to kill themselves. After watching them all lay dead he shot himself in the head. Only a few lived to tell the tales of this evil cult leader. Jim Jones was a wolf who devoured sheep while pretending to be the great shepherd.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The bible does NOT say to judge others at all, though it does say to judge among ourselves.

Oops That came out in the wrong place...

Read your Bible for the scriptures clearly teach that the dead sleep awaiting resurrection.

The Word say clearly that when one leaves the body, they are instantly present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 for a start

 

[Waggles]

Oops That came out in the wrong place...
The Word say clearly that when one leaves the body, they are instantly present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 for a start

No
Peoples misinterpret this scripture as being instantly being in Heaven with our Lord Jesus.
It does not state that. Paul is referring to being wearied in the flesh and groaning while we live on Earth waiting for the day that he will be freed from the sufferings of the flesh.
2Corinthians 5:2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, [compare with]
Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
When a Spirit-filled Christians dies having kept the faith they are dead in Christ - not separated from Him spiritually - awaiting the last trumpet and to be transformed in the twinkling of eye into immortality.
The dead of the world do go into Sheol or Hades to await resurrection. some the first, but for most the second resurrection of Rev 20.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

No
Peoples misinterpret this scripture as being instantly being in Heaven with our Lord Jesus.
It does not state that. Paul is referring to being wearied in the flesh and groaning while we live on Earth waiting for the day that he will be freed from the sufferings of the flesh.
2Corinthians 5:2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, [compare with]
Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
When a Spirit-filled Christians dies having kept the faith they are dead in Christ - not separated from Him spiritually - awaiting the last trumpet and to be transformed in the twinkling of eye into immortality.
The dead of the world do go into Sheol or Hades to await resurrection. some the first, but for most the second resurrection of Rev 20.

OK You're still talking soul sleep here

 

[Tanya]

Very interesting discussion. They are discussing the Ravi Z scandal that came
out after his death.

Full report on the investigation is here.

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/rzimmedia.rzim.org/assets/downloads/Report-of-Investigation.pdf

Reminds me that we are all sinners and need to guard our hearts and beware of giving the devil any foothold in your life.

Our faith is in Jesus, not in our leaders, yet we need to be honest with our struggles and ask for help if we are struggling with sin.

i BELIEVE IN ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. jESUS Christ took ALL our sins on at the cross so we are forgiven of past, present, and future sins. That is why he said "It is finished." When Christ was hanging on that cross He knew ALL of our sins centuries before any of us were born...with that being said if this leader has accepted Christ then yes he is in heaven with Jesus.

 

[Downunder]

OK You're still talking soul sleep here

Yes because it is scriptural. The dead sleep awaiting resurrection.