And, yes, that 'argument' has been made before -- that the 'ark' represents the few real born again believers that will be here compared to all the non-believers and that God will protect the born again believers from His attacks on the non-repentant to bring them to Himself. The problem with That -- the non-believers all drowned. God started the human race and the world all over again with Noah and his family.
many or few?
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And, yes, that 'argument' has been made before -- that the 'ark' represents the few real born again believers that will be here compared to all the non-believers and that God will protect the born again believers from His attacks on the non-repentant to bring them to Himself. The problem with That -- the non-believers all drowned. God started the human race and the world all over again with Noah and his family.
Downunder
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What are you writing of??
I posted that scripture because it supports the teaching of Paul in Ephesians 4:9 that Jesus went to the underworld after he died, and not to Heaven.
As for the Ark today that is truly the body of Christ and how those in the body of Christ will be saved (or rather protected) from the wrath to come.
Look at Luke 16 -- the section about the rich man and Lazarus -- Abraham's bosom.
Look at Ephesians 4: 8-10
There are two different times when Jesus Christ ascended -- when He rose from the dead on the 3rd day And when He ascended back up to heaven after those 40 days.
B-A-C
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Do you have any scripture that says He went to heaven during those 3 days?
John 20:17; Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' "
How about the body of Christ will be raptured up and out of 'here' and saved From the wrath to come.
I'm 'writing of' a belief that some people hold to. I don't.
Can we try discussing this further on 'Conversation' area. Maybe more continuity there.
Scripture says that He Wasn't in heaven during those 3 days. He died, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day. It's what He was Doing that is being talked about. He was the Son of God with a purpose. He did for 'us' what no person could. Only the Son of God could.
Paradise was the other side of Abraham's bosom -- the other side was Hades.
Downunder
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No scripture does not teach that.
When Jesus ascended to heaven before his disciples and sat down at the right hand of the Father then gifts were given to men - the promised Holy Spirit and the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit for the church of God.
@Downunder -- what Bible are you reading?! Rhetorical in nature.
Okay -- the 2nd time was when Jesus Christ ascended up to heaven as per Acts 1. And He sat down at the right hand of God the Father.
At the Day of Pentecost -- Acts 2 :2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. vs 3 "Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. vs 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." vs 5 "And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. vs 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language."
There Are spiritual gifts that are given to each born again believer to help the Church operate efficiently. In 1 Corinthians and Romans.
And the 1st time Jesus Christ was resurrected / ascended back up To earth was when He rose from the dead after those 3 days.
Okay -- the 2nd time was when Jesus Christ ascended up to heaven as per Acts 1. And He sat down at the right hand of God the Father.
At the Day of Pentecost -- Acts 2 :2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. vs 3 "Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. vs 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." vs 5 "And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. vs 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language."
There Are spiritual gifts that are given to each born again believer to help the Church operate efficiently. In 1 Corinthians and Romans.
And the 1st time Jesus Christ was resurrected / ascended back up To earth was when He rose from the dead after those 3 days.
Downunder
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Mattew 22:9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’
22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
22:11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment.
22:12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.
22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
This is really a very scary pronouncement by Jesus concerning Christians.
Mattew 13:47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.
13:48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.
13:49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
22:10 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.
22:11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment.
22:12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.
22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
This is really a very scary pronouncement by Jesus concerning Christians.
Mattew 13:47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.
13:48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.
13:49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
@Downunder -- what does that passage have to do with the subject at hand?
Brother-Paul
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Greeting Sue
I was a pre-trib person, but the more I study, the more I realise it is not going to be. I understand all the reason for pre-trib and have read the book you mention, 'Four Views of Endtime Prophesy'
Pre-trib doesn't add up Sue.
Regarding your statement 'No two verses say one way or another'
Here are 5
5 times in John's Gospel we read... I shall raise him ON THE LAST DAY.
John 6:39
And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that everyone who He gave me - I shall lose none of him, but rather, I shall raise him on the last day
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day
John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I shall raise him on the last day
John 6:54
He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day.
John 11:24
Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
I do however agree that we should, All consider, All the scriptures, this is where sharing together with scripture, on the forum, helps.
There are I believe a number of people in for a shock
1 - those who believe pre-trib when they end up going through the Tribulation periods.
2 - those who believe in a mid or ent-trib, who are not ready for our Lord's return and it happens sooner than expected by them.
The Truth I believe is, God does not want us to know when, but read the scriptures, observe the signs, keep our wicks trimmed and our lamps full of good oil. Be ready at all times!
God doesn't want us to know when, he wants us to be ready now, not when we come back off holiday, or after seeing a sporting event, or seeing a daughter married, or a child being born, no, no, he wants us to search the scriptures, be ready and give him the Glory, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen
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• Ps 115:17 . . The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go down into
silence
The author of that Psalm is currently unknown. It could've been David, but then
again it could've been one of the Levitical priests. Anyway, that verse speaks of
everyone's afterlife journey, but it only speaks of one half: their body's half.
Here's a portion of a country western song performed by Johnny Cash, Willie
Nelson, Waylon Jennings, and Kris Kristofferson that tells it all.
I was a dam builder.
Across the river deep and wide.
Where steel and water did collide.
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado,
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below.
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound,
But I am still around;
I'll always be around.
Whether the Highwaymen were thinking of the afterlife with that song, I don't
know; but it's handy to remind us that the interment of people's useless corpse isn't
the end of their existence, i.e. they're still around: somewhere.
UPDATE: 194 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,052,056 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
silence
The author of that Psalm is currently unknown. It could've been David, but then
again it could've been one of the Levitical priests. Anyway, that verse speaks of
everyone's afterlife journey, but it only speaks of one half: their body's half.
Here's a portion of a country western song performed by Johnny Cash, Willie
Nelson, Waylon Jennings, and Kris Kristofferson that tells it all.
I was a dam builder.
Across the river deep and wide.
Where steel and water did collide.
A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado,
I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below.
They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound,
But I am still around;
I'll always be around.
Whether the Highwaymen were thinking of the afterlife with that song, I don't
know; but it's handy to remind us that the interment of people's useless corpse isn't
the end of their existence, i.e. they're still around: somewhere.
UPDATE: 194 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 12,052,056 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_
I might have previously made this comment -- that 'we' will be so busy 'living' life -- that we won't be aware of any 'timing' involved. We will be taken up when God decides it time To take us up. And, yes, We need to be ready for whenever it Does take place -- in that twinkling of an eye. And maybe all this info is for those who get left behind -- they can read God's Word and realize what has just happened.
As long as we Are here -- we need to continue to grow in the grace and knowledge Of God's Word. And be encouraging other believers. And people around us can be observing our daily living / hearing our speech. Hopefully observing our being a little different in a positive way.
We Can observe what's going on in the world around us. Events leading up to More events. And More events leading up more quickly To More events. Until......... God calls us home to be with Him.
Brother-Paul
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I agree with all the encouragement and witnessing Sue, the harvest is ready but the workers are few.
It is also good for God's people to discuss scripture, All scripture, this includes when the rapture could take place. It is not to be avoided but studied and shared together, it is healthy for us to do so, even controversial subjects.
I have said, I don't agree with pre trib, you obviously do, but I have included scripture to confirm why, you said there wasn't two verses either way, I shared 5 with you regarding 'The Last Day'.
But having done so, I didn't try change the subject, I gave examples of people who think, pre trib and others that thing mid trib or last day. That is a balanced approach is it not.
We do not know when our Lord will return, or the Father in heaven knows, so it will happen when he says, and it will be like the twinkling of an eye in time. Whatever timing we think, it is healthy to discuss, and make sure we are ready, and to carry on witnessing as the Spirit guides us.
Bless you
It is also good for God's people to discuss scripture, All scripture, this includes when the rapture could take place. It is not to be avoided but studied and shared together, it is healthy for us to do so, even controversial subjects.
I have said, I don't agree with pre trib, you obviously do, but I have included scripture to confirm why, you said there wasn't two verses either way, I shared 5 with you regarding 'The Last Day'.
But having done so, I didn't try change the subject, I gave examples of people who think, pre trib and others that thing mid trib or last day. That is a balanced approach is it not.
We do not know when our Lord will return, or the Father in heaven knows, so it will happen when he says, and it will be like the twinkling of an eye in time. Whatever timing we think, it is healthy to discuss, and make sure we are ready, and to carry on witnessing as the Spirit guides us.
Bless you
@Brother-Paul -- the question has been raised -- what is meant by 'the last day' and the timing thereof. A lot seems to be getting based on that phrase. That's all I'm going to comment on that about. 
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Brother-Paul
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@Brother-Paul -- the question has been raised -- what is meant by 'the last day' and the timing thereof. A lot seems to be getting based on that phrase. That's all I'm going to comment on that about.
Hi Sue
What does 'last day' say to you?
I have shown you 4 verses saying... I shall raise him on the last day. Post #332
And 1 verse saying...
Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
Jesus did not say to Martha you are wrong, or you have misunderstood. With something so important I am sure he would have.
If you have other verses you know of that we should consider please do add them.
@Brother-Paul -- apparently that phrase "on the last day" -- is supposed to be referring to a post-trib rapture. I simply don't see how it would apply to that.
There is no reason why the Church would be here during the 7 yrs tribulation. It's the time -- once more -- for the Jewish people / Israel.
As for what it Does apply to -- I really don't know. Haven't given it much thought until it came up Now.
There is no reason why the Church would be here during the 7 yrs tribulation. It's the time -- once more -- for the Jewish people / Israel.
As for what it Does apply to -- I really don't know. Haven't given it much thought until it came up Now.
Brother-Paul
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