many or few?

[Beetow]

that can also be applied to Fathers.

Recriminations are a natural reaction to criticism; typically motivated by
resentment at being singled out for faults common to others.

However recriminations are quite futile. They do nothing to mitigate one's own
faults nor excuse their conduct. People are what they are, and God doesn't grade
on a curve.

• Luke 6:29 . . And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek, offer also the
other.

In this day and age of assertiveness, turning the other cheek is no longer in vogue
with some Christians. Oh, they'll vote for turning the other cheek alright and agree
it's good Christian character. But you know, good Christian character is sort of like
the Classics: everybody says we ought to have the Classics in our libraries, but
really: who ever reads them?

• 1Pet 2:21-24 . . For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps . . who, when He was
reviled, did not revile in return.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow --my 1st reaction is to LOL. You were down on Mothers -- the same Can be applied to Father's.

You interpret that the way you want to.

 

[Beetow]

• 2Ki 8:26 . .Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and
he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the
daughter of Omri king of Israel.

At that time, the land was divided into two kingdoms-- Israel (a.k.a. Samaria) in
the north, and Judah in the south. (1Ki 11:26-40)

Apparently, marriages between the two royal families was supposed to foster
peaceful relations between them. An unfortunate side effect was some pretty bad
kings. Ahaziah was a bad king who walked not after David's ways, but after his
northern kin's ways-- the house of Ahab.

• 2Chro 22:3-4 . . He also walked in the ways of the house of Ahab: for his mother
was his counselor to do wickedly. Wherefore he did evil in the sight of The Lord like
the house of Ahab: for they were his counselors after the death of his father-- to
his destruction.

That's a perfect example how a man's in-laws can be his own worst enemies;
and his mother too

Anyway, God saw to it that Ahaziah lost control over the south (2Chrn 22:7) which
prompted his mother to do a terrible thing.

• 2Chro 22:10-23:1 . . But when Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son
was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal of the house of Judah. But
Jehoshabeath, the daughter of the king, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole
him from among the king's sons that were slain, and put him and his nurse in a
bedchamber. So Jehoshabeath, the daughter of king Jehoram, the wife of Jehoiada
the priest, (for she was the sister of Ahaziah,) hid him from Athaliah, so that she
slew him not. And he was with them hid in the house of God six years: and Athaliah
reigned over the land.

Joash was just an infant; and if not for his auntie Jehoshabeath's rapid response,
that heartless monster Athaliah would've completely wiped out every last one of her
own grandsons so she could grab the throne.

NOTE: It's not all that unusual for despots to murder their own kin so as to
eliminate any and all possible challenges to their control. For example; North
Korea's Kim Jong-Un ordered his uncle Jang Song-Thaek assassinated for that very
reason.

UPDATE: 213 days have elapsed since my first comment. If the figures in post No.5
are in the ball park, then something like 13,232,412 new arrivals have checked into
the fiery sector of Hades since Oct 08, 2020.
_

 

[Sue D.]

@Beetow -- the Kings and Chronicles passages are good ones with all the kings , how long they reigned . whether or not they were Good kings or Bad ones.

Marriages -- back then-- many times were to connect countries.

Some were kings at a very young age and some lots older.

Yes, people were pretty ruthless back then. Are We really That different Now? Not really.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

There are some people who believe in a pre-trib rapture.
However there are two verses that say it will happen "after" the tribulation, and none that say "before" the tribulation.
Yet people still believe it, even though the Bible doesn't say it anywhere.

Which verses say the rapture is post trib?

 

[B-A-C]

Which verses say the rapture is post trib?

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:24; "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25; AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:24; "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25; AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

Brother,

Neither of those passages explicitly say tribulation is ended. In fact, after the cosmic disturbance, Revelation 6:12 tells us that God's wrath is just beginning.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Mark 13:24; "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25; AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

Thank you my friend....Please notice here that the words are "Gather up" and the pretrib rapture verses say "Catch up" Meaning the bride is literally picked up to meet the Lord in the air. The gathering is when the saints from all over the Earth are brought into one place...where Jesus is. Again.....these are two separate events... Look at the chains of happenings...A shout, the trump of God, the bride is caught up into the air....vs All the world sees Jesus coming, His feet touch the Earth (unlike the first example) He sends his angels to all parts of the Earth to bring together all of His saints.....There is a definite difference between the two events....Two separate and distinct events....First the bride is caught up...She has to be caught up, so then she can return with Him at the second event....

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Brother,

Neither of those passages explicitly say tribulation is ended. In fact, after the cosmic disturbance, Revelation 6:12 tells us that God's wrath is just beginning.

Hmmm Look at the first five words of Matt 24:29

 

[JerryfromMass]

Yes, "immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." And John writes in Revelation 6:12-17 of the cosmic disturbance Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24: "12And I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became as black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the eminent people, and the commanders and the wealthy and the strong, and every slave and free person hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16and they *said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the [m]sight of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17for the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Here God is just beginnig to pour out HIS wrath.

 

[B-A-C]

Here God is just beginnig to pour out HIS wrath.

This is the 6th seal, 5 have already happened. This is towards the end.

 

[B-A-C]

..these are two separate events... Look at the chains of happenings...A shout, the trump of God, the bride is caught up into the air....vs All the world sees Jesus coming, His feet touch the Earth (unlike the first example) He sends his angels to all parts of the Earth to bring together all of His saints.....There is a definite difference between the two events....Two separate and distinct events....First the bride is caught up...She has to be caught up, so then she can return with Him at the second event....

If this is true, then why are the elect still here?

Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

The previous verses in the previous post say only the elect will be gathered up.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

If this is true, then why are the elect still here?

Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

The previous verses in the previous post say only the elect will be gathered up.

The elect that is gathered up at the end there, are the ones who got saved during the tribulation and the ones who missed the rapture by not being ready....The bride is the ones who made themselves ready....The five virgins....were ready, they went in to the wedding.....

Revelation 19:7

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Christians are taught that we are a part of the bride because we are born again...that is not what the bible says.....We go to heaven if we're born again, but that does not make us the bride....

 

[JerryfromMass]

This is the 6th seal, 5 have already happened. This is towards the end.

Trumpet and bowl judgments have yet to be dispensed. If there are all the forementioned judgments yet to come, and a space of five months in Revelation 9 between the 5th and 6th trumpet judgments, plus the bowl judgments to follow, it's not so close to the end at all. Could even be closer to just less than half of the 70th week remaining. If the ekklessia is post trib raptured, that means it will go through all of the trumpet and bowl judgments, i.e., God's wrath.

 

[JerryfromMass]

The elect that is gathered up at the end there, are the ones who got saved during the tribulation and the ones who missed the rapture by not being ready....The bride is the ones who made themselves ready....The five virgins....were ready, they went in to the wedding.....

Revelation 19:7

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Christians are taught that we are a part of the bride because we are born again...that is not what the bible says.....We go to heaven if we're born again, but that does not make us the bride....

The Bride is the entire ekklesia.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

This is the 6th seal, 5 have already happened. This is towards the end.

You saw the first seals opened? You were there

Yes, "immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." And John writes in Revelation 6:12-17 of the cosmic disturbance Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24: "12And I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became as black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15Then the kings of the earth and the eminent people, and the commanders and the wealthy and the strong, and every slave and free person hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16and they *said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the [m]sight of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17for the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Here God is just beginnig to pour out HIS wrath.

So you're saying that we're in the tribulation period now? Or that it just ended?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The Bride is the entire ekklesia.

No....I just knew that somebody would argue what I said. Not that I was looking for an argument. Actually the bride comes out of the church...the one new man

 

[JerryfromMass]

You saw the first seals opened? You were there

So you're saying that we're in the tribulation period now? Or that it just ended?

There is a coming 7 year period of time (Daniel's 70th week) during which a peace treaty will be reached in Israel. Mid point of that 7 years, after the agreement is reached, the antichrist will be revealed and he will force the world to worship him as God and require each to receive a mark in order to engage in the new one world order economy. The devil pours out his wrath on humanity (Rev. 12:12) and antichrist with his minions and the false prophet will begin a mass persecution and extermination/holocaust of Christians and many will die for their faith, and many will save their lives by bowing down to antichrist. Sometime after all this begins to happen (the exact day or hour is unknown) God will pour out HIS wrath on an unbelieving and rebellious world. Before God pours out HIS wrath HE will take the faithful Ekklesia out of the world to be with HIM for ever. HE will then return to earth to defeat HIS enemies and rule and reign for a millenium.

 

[JerryfromMass]

No....I just knew that somebody would argue what I said. Not that I was looking for an argument. Actually the bride comes out of the church...the one new man

"One new man"?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

There is a coming 7 year period of time (Daniel's 70th week) during which a peace treaty will be reached in Israel. Mid point of that 7 years, after the agreement is reached, the antichrist will be revealed and he will force the world to worship him as God and require each to receive a mark in order to engage in the new one world order economy. The devil pours out his wrath on humanity (Rev. 12:12) and antichrist with his minions and the false prophet will begin a mass persecution and extermination/holocaust of Christians and many will die for their faith, and many will save their lives by bowing down to antichrist. Sometime after all this begins to happen (the exact day or hour is unknown) God will pour out HIS wrath on an unbelieving and rebellious world. Before God pours out HIS wrath HE will take the faithful Ekklesia out of the world to be with HIM for ever. HE will then return to earth to defeat HIS enemies and rule and reign for a millenium.

Ok So how can the first six seals be opened now? Unless I grossly misunderstood, you said we're waiting on the opening of the seventh seal.