John 1:1-4

[JoshuaStone7]

Christian greetings...

The main focus of verses 1-4 is on what and who. The who is the Word-Life-Light, He is all three in these verses. The what is that He was/existed and caused to become.

There were two leading translations over these last two millennia.

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"What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of men."

"In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind."

---

In the first case, one separates the Word from the life; wherein verse four reads life is the light, in that of the Word.

In the second case, life again is separated from the personage of the Word by stating instead life comes from Him or that He is the source of life; however, verse four tells us He is the life-light. All things became through Him; however, He was the life, the light before mankind. It would be redundant and mistaken to say, "In Him was Him."

I have rendered verse four as "Life was" because that is the focus of the entirety of verses 1-3. The Word-Life-Light who caused to become, was/existed.

The Word = The Life = The Light

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"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with the God. Through Him, all things became, and without Him, not even one thing became that has become in Him. Life was, and the life was the light of mankind." (Joshuastone7)

All love...

Joshua

 

[Beetow]

The Greek noun translated "Word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 basically refers to
spoken words in contrast to unspoken words, i.e. speech vs thoughts.

That being the case, then I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:3 like this;

"All things were made by God's voice; and without His voice was not any thing
made that was made."

For example Genesis 1:6 where we can observe the power of God's voice in action;
making things.

"And God said: Let there be an expanse . . . .

So then; I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:14 like this;

"God's voice became flesh, and by His voice God made His dwelling among us."

There are elements of Christianity that defy reason and logic and make no sense to
me whatsoever: God's voice is one of them. I can easily understand how a person
can be a sentient being, but I cannot at all understand how someone's voice can be
a sentient being when to me a person's voice is just sounds and syllables; but Jesus
said that God's voice is active.

• John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
_

 

[Beetow]

According to John 1:1-3; the Word is God.

Well; God is an eternal being, i.e. He always was, He always is, and He always shall
be. In other words: there was never a moment of time in the distant past when the
Word didn't exist, nor is there ever a moment of time in the present when the Word
doesn't exist, nor will there ever be a moment of time in the distant future when
the Word won't exist, viz: there has never been, nor will there ever be, a pause in
the Word's existence.

So; when the Word came into the world as a human being per John 1:14, his
existence as the Word didn't stop. He continued to exist as the Word because God
cannot stop His existence as God.

In John 1:1-3, the Word is a spirit being who exists, in all points, as God.

In John 1:14, the Word is a physical being who exists, in all points, as Man.

The Jehovah's Witnesses insist it is impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being
and a physical being simultaneously. Now, I don't know that it's possible for
someone to exist as two physical beings simultaneously, or as two spirit beings
simultaneously, but I entertain not the slightest hint of sensible doubt that Jesus
Christ exists as a spirit being and a physical being simultaneously because not only
do John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 verify it; but so does 1Cor 15:45.
_

 

[JoshuaStone7]

There are elements of Christianity that defy reason and logic and make no sense to
me whatsoever: God’s voice is one of them.

Greetings, friend, and thank you for your response.

I agree the Logos/Word is the speech or even the very intent of God to create.

Could you offer your opinion on the life in John 1? We know the light of mankind is Christ Jesus,

“I am the light of the world.” Jhn 8:12

Then, according to John 1:4, the light is the life. So the Word is the Life,

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it.” Jhn 1:1,2

“Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.” Jhn 11:25

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So with this in mind, does it make sense to say, “In him was him?”

“In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.” Jhn 1:4

Since the Word is the Life, then how can this scripture read, “In him was him?”

Thanks...

Joshua

 

[JoshuaStone7]

"Bump"

 

[JoshuaStone7]

Bump...

 

[Rhema]

The Greek noun translated "Word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 basically refers to
spoken words in contrast to unspoken words, i.e. speech vs thoughts.

It does not.

LOGOS (λογος) is not RHEMA (ῥῆμα). That's why there are two different words.

LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon for LOGOS

LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon for RHEMA:

A. that which is said or spoken, word, saying,​

Seriously, @Beetow, you have that completely backwards.

The texts in question, John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 have the word LOGOS written.

That being the case, then I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:3 like this;

No translator would consider that "paraphrase" to be legitimate.

• John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Now this verse speaks of RHEMA...

I would encourage you to dig deeper into the archetypal definitions and application of both words.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I agree the Logos/Word is the speech or even the very intent of God to create.

(You shouldn't...)
.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

There were two leading translations over these last two millennia.

---

"What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of men."

"In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind."

---

You seem to be saying that verse 4 (John 1:4) has "two leading translations over these last two millennia" ??

I'm rather curious what these "two leading translations" might be, in that English hasn't existed as a language for that long a time period.

I find only one Greek textual tradition - εν αυτω ζωη ην και η ζωη ην το φως των ανθρωπων, which holds to the exact same meaning as the Latin (in ipso vita erat et vita erat lux hominum) as well as the Aramaic - (see verse 4 in the following link).

John's Gospel

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

www.thearamaicscriptures.com

εἰμί is the verb "to be" LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon

B. most freq., to be,​

​

γίγνομαι is the verb "to become" (come to be) LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon

A. I. abs., come into being​

Might you be able to clarify?

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[QuestionIt]

Trinitarians completely overlook such scriptures that explain this, such as~

Heb 1:1- In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2- but in these last days He has spoken to us by his son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom also He made the universe.

That's why they are still Trinitarians....

 

[God's Truth]

There is only one God, and He is the Father.

Since Jesus is God, then he is also the Father made visible and audible.

God the Father is an invisible Spirit and lives in unapproachable light.

God the Father made Himself a body, and then made everything through that body.

That body is Jesus Christ, not yet known as Jesus.

God gave up that body and came to earth in the flesh as a son.

That son is Jesus Christ, who showed us the Way, then died for us, and rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven and was given the same immortal body he had before coming to earth.

There is only one divine Spirit, and that is God the Father's, and He is that one Spirit in the body before coming to earth, and as a human on earth, and now in heaven. That one divine Spirit is God the Father, and the same in Jesus Christ come as a man, and the Holy Spirit...the three are one and the same.

 

[QuestionIt]

There is only one God, and He is the Father.

Since Jesus is God, -

Heh!
Double Talk!
What do I expect from a churchoid?

Is Jesus his own FATHER?

 

[God's Truth]

Heh!
Double Talk!
What do I expect from a churchoid?

Is Jesus his own FATHER?

Can you try to discuss without insults and false judgments?
The only church I belong to is the body of Christ.

Jesus came as a son. He didn't come as a Father.

 

[QuestionIt]

Can you try to discuss without insults and false judgments?
The only church I belong to is the body of Christ.

Jesus came as a son. He didn't come as a Father.

I did not mean it as " insults and false judgments".
Just facts,

Now, will you answer my question: was Jesus his own FATHER?

 

[God's Truth]

I did not mean it as " insults and false judgments".
Just facts,

Can you control yourself? Are you blind? Don't talk about me personally, don't make any judgments on me, just talk about the scriptures and doctrines you want to talk about.

Now, will you answer my question: was Jesus his own FATHER?

You are blind? I answered you. Jesus is God COME as a SON.

 

[QuestionIt]

Can you control yourself? Are you blind? Don't talk about me personally, don't make any judgments on me, just talk about the scriptures and doctrines you want to talk about.


You are blind? I answered you. Jesus is God COME as a SON.

So talk plainly~
So Jesus DID come as his own father.
Churchoid (one who follows after a church) speaking in Church Dogma, not what Christ had taught.

 

[God's Truth]

So talk plainly~
So Jesus DID come as his own father.
Churchoid (one who follows after a church) speaking in Church Dogma, not what Christ had taught.

I don't say the same things that denominations say.

How many times do you have to be told that Jesus came as a son?

 

[QuestionIt]

He avoids questions like every churchoid...

 

[God's Truth]

He avoids questions like every churchoid...

An untruthful post, fitting for your message of falseness.

 

[QuestionIt]

An untruthful post, fitting for your message of falseness.

Accusations will not cover the fact that you refuse to answer questions.