Church age ??

[Dave M]

When was the start of the church age ?

thanks

 

[B-A-C]

That's a great question: Difficult to answer I think. The first time the word "church" is mentioned is...

Matt16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Now of course Peter wasn't the church, "this rock" was the concept that Peter recognized Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of God.

Matt 16:15; He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Matt 16:16; Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt 16:17; And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

The second time the word church is mentioned is... Now of course this wasn't originally English, it was the word...

ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Matt 18:16; "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Matt 18:17; "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Still for various reasons, many would consider the true "church age" to have started in Acts 2.

Acts 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Acts 2:42; They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
Acts 2:47; praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

This was the beginning of the Christian fellowship. While Jesus was on the Earth, people followed Him literally. After He ascended back to heaven,
people followed Him spiritually. ( in some cases, that may affect literal, physical aspects as well ). Many scholars consider this the beginning of the church.

 

[Hitch]

The sixth day.

 

[Hitch]

The 'church age' as a great parenthesis in history , is a fanciful construction of desperation . It screams in opposition to the very purpose the earth was made.

 

[Dave M]

Still for various reasons, many would consider the true "church age" to have started in Acts 2.

Yes this is what I always have herd.

But I just can not seem to get on board with that. Jesus lived to fulfilled the law and began the church at the same time is my initial thought. I think all agree that Jesus fulfilled the Law. But it seems everyone always want to put the church in one corner and Israel in another corner. I see them as one

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The part about him starting the church at the same time as fulfilling the law is something I have never herd anyone preach on. But it seems to me that Jesus was the first member as the high priest in the church to receive the Holly Spirit. Thus making me think that this is when the Church began. When Jesus was baptized and received the Holly Spirit

Luke 3-21-22
21. Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,
22. and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son;[c] with you I am well pleased.”

After Jesus was baptized the Holly spirit drove him out to the desert to be tempted by the devil, this was for our sake I believe. As a leader of his Church he showing us first hand how to combat the devil with the sword of God !! Anyone who follows this example puts there faith in Jesus the word of God the sword of God. They would belong to the church !!!

At the very least Jesus laid the foundation for the church while he was alive, so to me that is when the Church started, when the foundation was being laid. Now the church was moving forward and progressing at pentecost is the way I see it. But is was already Jesus who had established the church while he was alive. IMO

Jesus was the one training the Apostles to carry on his work of the church after he would be gone. He was not training them to carry on the traditions of the laws of the Jewish people. Yes the Church developed more and more after he left, and he sent the Holly Spirit to guide them, as he was no longer here to guide them.

 

[Hitch]

Yes this is what I always have herd.

But I just can not seem to get on board with that. Jesus lived to fulfilled the law and began the church at the same time is my initial thought. I think all agree that Jesus fulfilled the Law. But it seems everyone always want to put the church in one corner and Israel in another corner. I see them as one

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The part about him starting the church at the same time as fulfilling the law is something I have never herd anyone preach on. But it seems to me that Jesus was the first member as the high priest in the church to receive the Holly Spirit. Thus making me think that this is when the Church began. When Jesus was baptized and received the Holly Spirit

Luke 3-21-22
21. Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,
22. and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son;[c] with you I am well pleased.”

After Jesus was baptized the Holly spirit drove him out to the desert to be tempted by the devil, this was for our sake I believe. As a leader of his Church he showing us first hand how to combat the devil with the sword of God !! Anyone who follows this example puts there faith in Jesus the word of God the sword of God. They would belong to the church !!!

At the very least Jesus laid the foundation for the church while he was alive, so to me that is when the Church started, when the foundation was being laid. Now the church was moving forward and progressing at pentecost is the way I see it. But is was already Jesus who had established the church while he was alive. IMO

Jesus was the one training the Apostles to carry on his work of the church after he would be gone. He was not training them to carry on the traditions of the laws of the Jewish people. Yes the Church developed more and more after he left, and he sent the Holly Spirit to guide them, as he was no longer here to guide them.

But I just can not seem to get on board with that. Jesus lived to fulfilled the law and began the church at the same time is my initial thought. I think all agree that Jesus fulfilled the Law. But it seems everyone always want to put the church in one corner and Israel in another corner. I see them as one


Perf!

 

[Born Again 2004]

When was the start of the church age ?

thanks

The Church Age began on the " Day of Pentecost"! And, no matter what Christian Religion that you adhere to: it is marked by being Born Again into God's Universal Church of Believers -or- being "Born Again " Spiritually!

 

[Dave M]

The Church Age began on the " Day of Pentecost"! And, no matter what Christian Religion that you adhere to: it is marked by being Born Again into God's Universal Church of Believers -or- being "Born Again " Spiritually!

yes that is what I here mostly, but why?? was it because the Holly spirit came to them?? It came to Jesus first, and on top of that we have Jesus in his own words saying ask and you will receive the Holly Spirit, this is before Pentecost.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

 

[Hitch]

yes that is what I here mostly, but why?? was it because the Holly spirit came to them?? It came to Jesus first, and on top of that we have Jesus in his own words saying ask and you will receive the Holly Spirit, this is before Pentecost.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

Sad as it is the 'why' is to separate the church to make her a wholly distinct entity, rather than the e culmination of history . Rendering the church to the so-called parenthetical status regarding God's plan.

 

[Born Again 2004]

yes that is what I here mostly, but why?? was it because the Holly spirit came to them?? It came to Jesus first, and on top of that we have Jesus in his own words saying ask and you will receive the Holly Spirit, this is before Pentecost.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

Aside from exact Biblical events, you asked about the " Church Age".
For me and what I understand, though it appears that we have had certain "Churches" of Man like Roman, Roman-Catholic, excetera, form first, then , for what ever reason, we now have Christian Religions among us like Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians Pentecost, excetera. They are full of people called Christians, but not all are part of the " Church Age".
I think it is probably safe to say that the"Church Age" began when God started to build His Church of Believers some call it "The Day of Pentecost", God knows better than I! Some call it the Christian Church Universal.

Not sure when it began, but I do know I'm a member!!!

 

[LakeMan]

Why? The church was not possible until Christ, the Testator, died and paid the price to accomplish "imputed" "Righteousness" for anyone choosing Him as their Savior. Rom 10:9,10.
Righteousness is required of a person to receive the Holy Spirit..to be baptized By Christ , our High Priest, with the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ (His Church). First Believe/Repent then Confess unto Salvation, a life long work of the Holy Spirit of Regeneration of every Believer IN Christ. The Testator must first die to usher in the New Covenant or New Testament...fulfilling the Law and, as the Second Adam, achieving for all of us what we are not/cannot achieve for ourselves. This achievement by My Lord Jesus Christ Reconciled man to the Heavenly Father. So, my position, is that the Church Age began once Jesus Christ died on the Cross at Calvary...Raised from the Dead to defeat The Law of Sin and Death. Rom 8:2. Not dogmatic...just a believer of The Truth...John14:6.

 

[Hitch]

Why? The church was not possible until Christ, the Testator, died and paid the price to accomplish "imputed" "Righteousness" for anyone choosing Him as their Savior. Rom 10:9,10.
Righteousness is required of a person to receive the Holy Spirit..to be baptized By Christ , our High Priest, with the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ (His Church). First Believe/Repent then Confess unto Salvation, a life long work of the Holy Spirit of Regeneration of every Believer IN Christ. The Testator must first die to usher in the New Covenant or New Testament...fulfilling the Law and, as the Second Adam, achieving for all of us what we are not/cannot achieve for ourselves. This achievement by My Lord Jesus Christ Reconciled man to the Heavenly Father. So, my position, is that the Church Age began once Jesus Christ died on the Cross at Calvary...Raised from the Dead to defeat The Law of Sin and Death. Rom 8:2. Not dogmatic...just a believer of The Truth...John14:6.

And Abe ? Moses? Dave ?



1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

 

[Born Again 2004]

And Abe ? Moses? Dave ?



1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

God, in His Sovereignty and VAST wisdom has worked this out down the ages to ALL that love Him!
But , right now, those who are alive , I pray, when you die your Physical death, that you posess a Faith that He has given you!

 

[Dave M]

While reading the word this morning a verse Jumped off the pages for me, thank you Jesus.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


It seems at the point of John the baptist and forward is when the the church is formed IMO

John and Jesus never preached to sacrifice to animals to cover your sins. It says that the Kingdom of God and the good news is for everyone.

Seems to me Jesus fulfilled the law and started the church at the same time, in all Jesus teaching it was always the way of the church not the way of the Law (I think)

 

[Hitch]

While reading the word this morning a verse Jumped off the pages for me, thank you Jesus.

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


It seems at the point of John the baptist and forward is when the the church is formed IMO

John and Jesus never preached to sacrifice to animals to cover your sins. It says that the Kingdom of God and the good news is for everyone.

Seems to me Jesus fulfilled the law and started the church at the same time, in all Jesus teaching it was always the way of the church not the way of the Law (I think)

It is only obvious that kingdom and church are one in the same , in many respects. I can see no reason to doubt John ,personally, preached "to sacrifice to animals" at least so far as he practiced the Law as the cause for the 'oblations to cease' came after he had been murdered. Just as certainly that John preached the same kingdom as did Jesus and that is found in the Psalms and the prophets. I would say the church precedes and encompasses the kingdom. Jesus spoke of the kingdom having a distinct beginning, saying 'the time is fulfilled' and he spoke of its gradual growth over time (M13). So it not problem ,for me, to agree that Pentecost is a special marker, the early beginnings of the all encompassing church/kingdom phase , When the geo-political and geographical limitations are forever removed, where we live today.

 

[Born Again 2004]

It is only obvious that kingdom and church are one in the same , in many respects. I can see no reason to doubt John ,personally, preached "to sacrifice to animals" at least so far as he practiced the Law as the cause for the 'oblations to cease' came after he had been murdered. Just as certainly that John preached the same kingdom as did Jesus and that is found in the Psalms and the prophets. I would say the church precedes and encompasses the kingdom. Jesus spoke of the kingdom having a distinct beginning, saying 'the time is fulfilled' and he spoke of its gradual growth over time (M13). So it not problem ,for me, to agree that Pentecost is a special marker, the early beginnings of the all encompassing church/kingdom phase , When the geo-political and geographical limitations are forever removed, where we live today.

Hooey-Fooey..... the "Church-Age"and the "Kingdom of God " do have similar aspects but no-matter, how eloquently you try to put it, THEY are not the same!

The Kingdom of God has always existed from before the foundation of ANY!
The Kingdom of God is in the Spirit World , where God resides.

The " Church Age" has not ALWAYS existed!
All "Church Age Christians" go to the "Kingdom of God" when they die.
The "Church Age" began sometime after Christ was Ressurected.
The usual answer to the beginning of the "Church Age" was the " Day of Penrecost".

Only God knows for sure!

 

[Hitch]

Hooey-Fooey..... the "Church-Age"and the "Kingdom of God " do have similar aspects but no-matter, how eloquently you try to put it, THEY are not the same!

The Kingdom of God has always existed from before the foundation of ANY!
The Kingdom of God is in the Spirit World , where God resides.

The " Church Age" has not ALWAYS existed!
All "Church Age Christians" go to the "Kingdom of God" when they die.
The "Church Age" began sometime after Christ was Ressurected.
The usual answer to the beginning of the "Church Age" was the " Day of Penrecost".

Only God knows for sure!

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You need to read more .

 

[Born Again 2004]

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You need to read more .

What makes us unique, is that we share the inheritance of Christ and that is Biblical.
Not sure what you are talking about or read though; I'll stick to the Word of God!
Since this original thread was about the beginning of the Church Age...
With you better knowledge of things, what do you say is the beginning?

 

[Hitch]

What makes us unique, is that we share the inheritance of Christ and that is Biblical.
Not sure what you are talking about or read though; I'll stick to the Word of God!
Since this original thread was about the beginning of the Church Age...
With you better knowledge of things, what do you say is the beginning?

I've already answered that but to repeat . The sixth day.
The 'church age' as defined by dispensationalism is a Fairy tale and never existed. There has never been a day on earth , since the sixth, that lacked a believer, usually more than we think according to Ezekiel. In contrast to dispensationalist Pete tells us :

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

No one has been saved, born of God, translated or any term you can find that reconciles sinful men to the Father , outside of Christ. This is reality the rest is word games.

The kingdom /church also has a distinct beginning :
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”


Also in contrast to dispensationalism the gospel here and that of Pete and Paul and the entire NT are one. Our kingdom was foreshadowed by the natural with its battles and banquets. The intention ,in Christ, was always ,from before creation, to gather all His elect , in a spiritual kingdom. The very notion , once again, proposed in dispensationalism, that Christ's original plan was to restore Dave's kingdom in temporal ,physical form fairly scoffs at the realty of the cross and glory of the suffering Servant.

Enough for now , clearasmudright ?

 

[Born Again 2004]

I've already answered that but to repeat . The sixth day.
The 'church age' as defined by dispensationalism is a Fairy tale and never existed. There has never been a day on earth , since the sixth, that lacked a believer, usually more than we think according to Ezekiel. In contrast to dispensationalist Pete tells us :

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow.

No one has been saved, born of God, translated or any term you can find that reconciles sinful men to the Father , outside of Christ. This is reality the rest is word games.

The kingdom /church also has a distinct beginning :
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”


Also in contrast to dispensationalism the gospel here and that of Pete and Paul and the entire NT are one. Our kingdom was foreshadowed by the natural with its battles and banquets. The intention ,in Christ, was always ,from before creation, to gather all His elect , in a spiritual kingdom. The very notion , once again, proposed in dispensationalism, that Christ's original plan was to restore Dave's kingdom in temporal ,physical form fairly scoffs at the realty of the cross and glory of the suffering Servant.

Enough for now , clearasmudright ?

For me that is a non-answer, but I'll refer to the individual who began this thread and asked the original question about the beginning of the "Church Age" and let him decide!