Yikes another rapture thread!

[Reba1]

I already told you I am a believer, I therefore have faith in him, what ever and when ever He does ANYTHING is fine with me....I am ready, ARE YOU?!

But what He says does not matter?

 

[Hitch]

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Why would Jesus pray to his father to take us out of this world? Then who would preach the Gospel to all nations?
The Gospel must first be preached and then the end will come.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Why would Jesus pray to his father to take us out of this world? Then who would preach the Gospel to all nations?
The Gospel must first be preached and then the end will come.

Like this:
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Maybe like this :

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Or this;
If indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I Paul was made a minister.

And Jesus made an important notation ;

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word

 

[complete]

I have yet to read any one here posting a QUOTE FROM JESUS CHRIST on rapture. I have read many thoughts. beliefs. understandings. I have read the pentecostal dogma i grew up with but no quote from Jesus.

'And I said, "Who art thou, Lord?"
And He said," I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
"But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"
(Act 26:15-16)

Hello @Reba1,

No, except for the prophecy of Matthew 24, there is no direct reference to the resurrection and translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, by the Lord during his ministry while on earth. However the Apostles spoke on His behalf as His sent ones after He had ascended into heaven. The Apostles were His spokesmen. He appeared to Paul on more than one occasion as the verses quoted above record (Ephesians 3), bringing revelations from above.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hitch]

'And I said, "Who art thou, Lord?"
And He said," I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
"But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
to make thee a minister and a witness
both of these things which thou hast seen,
and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"
(Act 26:15-16)

Hello @Reba1,

No, except for the prophecy of Matthew 24, there is no direct reference to the resurrection and translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, by the Lord during his ministry while on earth. However the Apostles spoke on His behalf as His sent ones after He had ascended into heaven. The Apostles were His spokesmen. He appeared to Paul on more than one occasion as the verses quoted above record (Ephesians 3), bringing revelations from above.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

No, except for the prophecy of Matthew 24, there is no direct reference to the resurrection and translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, by the Lord during his ministry while on earth.

You've heard the thing about the trees blocking the view of the forest ?

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48I am that bread of life.

49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

It couldnt be more 'direct'.

 

[complete]

No, except for the prophecy of Matthew 24, there is no direct reference to the resurrection and translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, by the Lord during his ministry while on earth.

You've heard the thing about the trees blocking the view of the forest ?

It couldnt be more 'direct'.

Hello @Hitch,

Yes, He will raise him (the believer) up at the last day. That is not in dispute.

What appears to be in doubt is what the last day comprises. What is the last day?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Curtis]

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

There are more nations in this time that did NOT exist during the time of Jesus. There are more people alive today than have been all together from the beginning of time. Which ones should we not tell?

 

[Born Again 2004]

But what He says does not matter?

ANYTHING!

 

[complete]

Hello @Hitch,

Will you please tell the forum what you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is referring to?
For this is the event that so many believers refer to as 'The Rapture'?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hitch]

Hello @Hitch,

Yes, He will raise him (the believer) up at the last day. That is not in dispute.

What appears to be in doubt is what the last day comprises. What is the last day?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Are these terms difficult? Tell why those to whom Jesus was speaking would not simply ,and correctly believe what He said ?
It one thing to have differences , its quite another to fail to conform to what Jesus said.

 

[complete]

Are these terms difficult? Tell why those to whom Jesus was speaking would not simply ,and correctly believe what He said ?
It one thing to have differences , its quite another to fail to conform to what Jesus said.

Hello @Hitch,

Please tell me what you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 refers to? How your understanding of it differs from your fellow members in this thread?

I believe that Christ Jesus the risen Lord, Who as, 'the Firstfruit of them that slept,' (1 Corinthians 15:20) has ascended into heaven to God's right hand, will return for, 'they that are Christ's,' - 'at His coming' (1 Corinthians 15:23).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Hitch]

Hello @Hitch,

Will you please tell the forum what you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is referring to?
For this is the event that so many believers refer to as 'The Rapture'?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I m having a little trouble , by that I mean how could it be more obvious ?

the dead in Christ will rise first

So resurrection (bodily) is required

with the sound of the trumpet of God.

Considering the event , the Lord's (apparent) personal involvement, and the author there should be no doubt this 'trump' is the last trump. You know this passage of the same pen:

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Do you think 'last trump' and' last day' go together? You may pretend all you like but you cannot honestly tell me you dont understand what 'last' means or day . 'Trumpets and days are familiar time markers, and like it or not the 'trump' here as in I Cor is the 'last trump.


and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This should be the least mysterious, in a word, eternity. Back in I Cor we are assured by Paul that in resurrection we see the end of the last enemy, death. Some would rather exchange eternity for 1,000 years of more sin and death, pretending that somehow this would be more glorious for Christ. A sad joke. its a heavy thing but when death is gone there is no more reconciliation, there will be no more enemies to overthrow.


Now joining the NT authors favorite Psalm we get a window on the events Paul has described:

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

So in Thess we indeed see the Lord coming personally to fulfill His word;

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Raising the dead, at the last trump on the last day, just as promised, fulfilling the requirement of the Psalm (above) and the Parable of the Sower and bringing all of creation into "so shall we ever be with the Lord' , the eternal state. Resurrected ,glorified and eternally in His very presence.


Does this involve floating up in the sky ? Maybe . That has no bearing on the important matters of bodily resurrection, eternity with the Lord and the translation of those living at the time. No you dont get to go up to Heaven to watch the slaughter of the earth on a big TV screen for 7 years. Time as it affects us in the fallen world ,is no longer so important , if it continues at all it will never again be harmful. Some how ,God only knows, those burned and mangled will be restored , in real bodies suited for eternal life. Those little ones who never learned to stand will run and play. And all who gave their lives for the Lord will be honored . ... Fun to consider eh ?

So there ya are , dont forget , you asked.

 

[Hitch]

Hello @Hitch,

Please tell me what you believe 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 refers to? How your understanding of it differs from your fellow members in this thread?

I believe that Christ Jesus the risen Lord, Who as, 'the Firstfruit of them that slept,' (1 Corinthians 15:20) has ascended into heaven to God's right hand, will return for, 'they that are Christ's,' - 'at His coming' (1 Corinthians 15:23).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

So why do you have so much trouble knowing ,as you do, that 4 times in one conversation Jesus personally chose the term 'last day' to describe WHEN the resurrection would take place ? Look and you will not find Jesus repeating anything else this way.

 

[complete]

I m having a little trouble , by that I mean how could it be more obvious ?

the dead in Christ will rise first

So resurrection (bodily) is required

with the sound of the trumpet of God.

Considering the event , the Lord's (apparent) personal involvement, and the author there should be no doubt this 'trump' is the last trump. You know this passage of the same pen:

Do you think 'last trump' and' last day' go together? You may pretend all you like but you cannot honestly tell me you dont understand what 'last' means or day . 'Trumpets and days are familiar time markers, and like it or not the 'trump' here as in I Cor is the 'last trump.


and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This should be the least mysterious, in a word, eternity. Back in I Cor we are assured by Paul that in resurrection we see the end of the last enemy, death. Some would rather exchange eternity for 1,000 years of more sin and death, pretending that somehow this would be more glorious for Christ. A sad joke.


Now joining the NT authors favorite Psalm we get a window on the events Paul has described:

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

So in Thess we indeed see the Lord coming personally to fulfill His word;

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Raising the dead, at the last trump on the last day, just as promised, fulfilling the requirement of the Psalm (above) and the Parable of the Sower and bringing all of creation into "so shall we ever be with the Lord' , the eternal state. Resurrected ,glorified and eternally in His very presence.

Hello @Hitch,

Thank you for explaining.

I have to go offline now, as I should have been in bed two hours ago!!
I will come back to this tomorrow (God willing)

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris

 

[complete]

So why do you have so much trouble knowing ,as you do, that 4 times in one conversation Jesus personally chose the term 'last day' to describe WHEN the resurrection would take place ? Look and you will not find Jesus repeating anything else this way.

Hello @Hitch,

I don't have trouble with this. I thought that you did.

 

[Hitch]

Hello @Hitch,

I don't have trouble with this. I thought that you did.

So tell me when will the resurrection take place ?

 

[Reba1]

Hello @Hitch,

Yes, He will raise him (the believer) up at the last day. That is not in dispute.

What appears to be in doubt is what the last day comprises. What is the last day?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Jesus is the creator of the days I believe He spoke directly the last day is exactly as He says the last day. To me it says we will not need the sun because we have the SON .

 

[Reba1]

I have yet to read any one here posting a QUOTE FROM JESUS CHRIST on rapture. I have read many thoughts. beliefs. understandings. I have read the pentecostal dogma i grew up with but no quote from Jesus.

to which you replied.... what a sad state to be in..

Who cares really, it's more important to be a Believer right now, all else is a mute point!

 

[complete]

I 'm having a little trouble , by that I mean how could it be more obvious ?

the dead in Christ will rise first

So resurrection (bodily) is required

with the sound of the trumpet of God.

Considering the event , the Lord's (apparent) personal involvement, and the author there should be no doubt this 'trump' is the last trump. You know this passage of the same pen:

Do you think 'last trump' and' last day' go together? You may pretend all you like but you cannot honestly tell me you don't understand what 'last' means or day . 'Trumpets and days are familiar time markers, and like it or not the 'trump' here as in I Cor is the 'last trump'.


and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This should be the least mysterious, in a word, eternity. Back in I Cor we are assured by Paul that in resurrection we see the end of the last enemy, death. Some would rather exchange eternity for 1,000 years of more sin and death, pretending that somehow this would be more glorious for Christ. A sad joke. its a heavy thing but when death is gone there is no more reconciliation, there will be no more enemies to overthrow.


Now joining the NT authors favorite Psalm we get a window on the events Paul has described:

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

So in 1 Thess we indeed see the Lord coming personally to fulfill His word;

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Raising the dead, at the last trump on the last day, just as promised, fulfilling the requirement of the Psalm (above) and the Parable of the Sower and bringing all of creation into "so shall we ever be with the Lord' , the eternal state. Resurrected ,glorified and eternally in His very presence.


Does this involve floating up in the sky ? Maybe . That has no bearing on the important matters of bodily resurrection, eternity with the Lord and the translation of those living at the time. No you don't get to go up to Heaven to watch the slaughter of the earth on a big TV screen for 7 years. Time as it affects us in the fallen world ,is no longer so important , if it continues at all it will never again be harmful. Somehow, God only knows, those burned and mangled will be restored , in real bodies suited for eternal life. Those little ones who never learned to stand will run and play. And all who gave their lives for the Lord will be honored . ... Fun to consider eh ?

So there ya are , don't forget , you asked.

'For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
.. that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
.... shall not prevent them which are asleep.
...... For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven
........ with a shout,
.......... with the voice of the archangel, and
............ with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
.. Then we which are alive and remain
.... shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
...... to meet the Lord in the air:
........ and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.'
(1Thessalonians 4:15-18)

Thank you, @Hitch, for responding to my request ( in reply#70 ) that you tell us your understanding of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
.. We shall not all sleep,
.... but we shall all be changed,
...... In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
........ at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
.. and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
.... and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
.. and this mortal must put on immortality.
.... So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
...... and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
........ then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
.......... Death is swallowed up in victory.
............ O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
(1 Corinthians 15:51-55)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris