Trinity

[Waggles]

Have not we all had enough ...

 

[Squeakybro]

The End Is Near

Lk 21-5
Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,
"These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."
So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?"
And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am [He],' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.
"But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately."
Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
"And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
"But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you], delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.
"But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.
"Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
"for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.
"You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death.
"And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.
"But not a hair of your head shall be lost.
"By your patience possess your souls.
2Tim 4-2
Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2Tim 3-1
Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2Thes 2-1
Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

 

[Brother Paul]

The KJV bible was translated from the Tyndale Bible . The KJV was from 1611. For 1600 years the Word was an "it". Now we see why God put stumbling blocks and stumbling stones in scripture.

Actually the "Word pf YHVH" originally was a Jewish understanding that culminated in the writings of the Targumim. See Targum Jonathan ben-Uziel in the mid-1st century Jerusalem.

The “Word of God” to the Targumim was a personae or hypostasis of the living God, and yet strangely separate from Him. This is not referring to the Greek philosophy whatsoever.​

The concept of God’s “Word“ as a person, or as the temporal visible or audible expression of God, primarily has its roots in, and develops out of the Hebrew scriptures, and is also present in pre-Christian traditions in the works, and commentaries of ancient 1st and 2nd century Rabbinical scholarship. From before the time that Jesus was born, and I can only conjecture since the time of Ezra and the formation of Synagogue system, various Rabbis often debated and commented on various passages from the Tanakh. The summation of their perspectives and oral commentaries were represented and brought out in the Targums (100 B.C. to 200 A.D.). These were considered by many as nearly as authoritative as the Scriptures themselves! Sometimes different Rabbis brought out more subtle shades of meaning, and still others offered more unique renditions, supporting the traditions and teachings of their particular school of thought (of which there were a few) but in most places the Targums agreed.

The Targums were expanded, paraphrased, or amplified versions of the Scriptures, written in a western Aramaic/Hebrew. The early Targums were written by both Babylonian as well as Jerusalem Rabbis, usually by individual scholars of renowned such as the gentile proselyte Onkelos, and the famed Rabbi Jonathan ben-Uzziel, student, and possible grandson of the well-respected Rabbi Hillel. Oddly, though from two vastly different cultures and from many 1,000’s of miles apart, the conclusions reached by these Rabbis were often identical. Many of the renderings of these Aramaic paraphrases helped form the basis of what was alleged to be the “Oral Torah“ of the later Talmudic period.

Almost unanimously, in the various Targums, whenever YHVH is personified, or anthropomorphisms are being implied in the original language, or whenever YHVH is somehow made manifest to His chosen recipients, or when the scriptures seem to indicate more than one YHVH, the Rabbis referred to this expressed image of God, or appearances of YHVH Himself, as “the Word“ (the Memra)! This is exactly the application made by John in John 1:1.

Further in the New Testament Scriptures, we see this idea of Him being the “visible image of the invisible God” as applied to Jesus Christ (Messiah), and is emphasized, as we have seen, by the use of two words. One of the two Greek words interpreted “image” is “karacter”, and this literally refers to a die or a seal. From this concept we derive our word “Character”. It is an outward picture or sign that identifies who an important individual actually is in person, role, or status, and such a seal often carried with it a sense of that person’s full presence and authority!

The second Greek word used is “ikon“, and is alleged to be a true representation of something or someone. These scriptures were later used by Eastern Orthodoxy to defend their practice of making Icons to inspire reverence.​

In the Targum Jonathan on Genesis 19:24 Jonathan writes, “and the Memra (Word) of YHVH caused to descend upon the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, brimstone and fire from the YHVH in heaven“. If you compare this passage in the Masoretic or the Septuagint, or even the KJV or NASV, this “Word of YHVH“ is referred here as the LORD (YHVH), yet here He is, sitting with father Abraham in his tent, in the form of a man, in the fields of Mamre, breaking bread. They have just shared bread together, and this YHVH has sent forth the other two "men" (actually angels) who came with Him, to perform this historical act of God’s judgment.

It takes little effort to see that this "Word of God" was actually believed by the Jewish Targumim to be none other than YHVH Himself manifest (either in the flesh or as a theophany). We Christians call this unique person of the Godhead “the Son“. The reference to “Son” is actually also from pre-Christian Hebrew tradition (see Enoch, 105: 2; IV Esdras 7:28-29; 13:32, 37, 52; 14:9, and more). The tag “son” or “son of”, in the Hebrew culture, referred more to likeness or role rather than a progressive biological lineage. The “sons of Belial” were not literally Belial’s children in a biological sense. But who they are is very real and very important. In the world they are as Belial. They are like Belial and follow after his ways. Some in fact are implied to be under His control. On occasion, in ancient times before being contained and restrained, some orders of angels could come as a man or appear as one (they still may). This being the case here, Messiah ben-Yosef is likewise one like unto Joseph, and Messiah ben-David is one like unto David. In our case, both Joseph and David were types of which Christ is anti-type. They are a shadow and He is the reality; son of man and the Son of God.

So wherever “the Word” is represented in the Tanakh, He is on one hand represented as if He is separate from YHVH in Heaven, yet is also identified as YHVH Himself. One such case is when the Angel of the LORD who spoke to Moses from within the burning bush. Later in the dialogue, He identifies Himself as the "I AM". Now there is only one God (yachid). That God is the Father. That same one God is also this Word/Son. The same one God is also the Holy Spirit. And from the perspective of these personae, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are a Unity. Each is referred to as "the Lord" throughout the Scripture, yet there is only one Lord and that Lord is YHVH.​

John was announcing to the unbelieving Rabbinical community that this Jesus was the Word of YHVH.​

 

[Shaolin]

What is the abundance of your heart??? Carnality, no verses.

My heart is satiated in God's truth; yours is full of deceived nonsense. There is no carnality in what I said - truth is truth, whether it is found in Scripture or elsewhere.

 

[Squeakybro]

My heart is satiated in God's truth; yours is full of deceived nonsense. There is no carnality in what I said - truth is truth, whether it is found in Scripture or elsewhere.

Your an intellectual idiot. The only truth is the quoted Word of God.
THE TRUTH IS THE VOICE OF JESUS, THE VOICE OF JESUS IS THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST
Rev 3:20-22
20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."' "
John 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."
John 10:27-28
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:16
16 "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
John 8:31-32
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 17:17-23
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
[Jhn 10:1, 4-8
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ... 4 "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 "Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them. 7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 "All who [ever] came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

xxx There is a truth that can only be found in Jesus. And one must go through the three years of the milk understanding and the eleven years of the meat understanding to come to Jesus and His revelations of Jesus Christ.The only truth for a Christian is the quoted Word of the new testament.


John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

 

[Shaolin]

Your an intellectual idiot.

LOL! No...but just in case it escapes you, you act like an idiot and think you are an intellectual!!!

The only truth is the quoted Word of God.

See! This is what I mean!!! 2+2=4...that is truth, and you will not find it anywhere in Scripture.

The more you post, the more the truth of what you are becomes evident to all who read your carnal gibberish.

 

[Squeakybro]

LOL! No...but just in case it escapes you, you act like an idiot and think you are an intellectual!!!



See! This is what I mean!!! 2+2=4...that is truth, and you will not find it anywhere in Scripture.

The more you post, the more the truth of what you are becomes evident to all who read your carnal gibberish.

You are so emotional. Calm down.

 

[Samson2020]

Samson said "Going to heaven is not even the goal of being a follower of Christ. It is to become a son of the living God."

To which Shaolin replied:

Wrong again...more nonsense from the JW answers booklet that is filled with lies. I did not know that this site allowed JW's in here...experience has taught that they are so brainwashed by lies that its virtually impossible for them to get saved.
The purpose of getting saved is so that we can have personal intimate relationship with God and go to live with Him in eternity when all of this is over with...so there again you don't have a clue about what Scripture teaches in truth.

John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him (Jesus), to them gave He power to become the SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the
will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


Easy with the name calling as I run JW's off my property with truths they do not understand. Not intentionally, but those i've met so far have no teeth to chew solid food with and care not
what is written in the Bible they are only trying to make disciples of their own denomination to make themselves feel as though they are right which is what all denominations do.
Indeed organized Christianity is a stumbling stone that must also be overcome as all will teach a subtle but blinding form of self righteousness from belonging to the group.

Your particular view points come straight from Catholisicm but you do not see me calling you a Catholic.

 

[Squeakybro]

Samson said "Going to heaven is not even the goal of being a follower of Christ. It is to become a son of the living God."

To which Shaolin replied:



John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him (Jesus), to them gave He power to become the SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the
will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


Easy with the name calling as I run JW's off my property with truths they do not understand. Not intentionally, but those i've met so far have no teeth to chew solid food with and care not
what is written in the Bible they are only trying to make disciples of their own denomination to make themselves feel as though they are right which is what all denominations do.
Indeed organized Christianity is a stumbling stone that must also be overcome as all will teach a subtle but blinding form of self righteousness from belonging to the group.

Your particular view points come straight from Catholisicm but you do not see me calling you a Catholic.

I Agree

DENOMINATIONS
Heb 4:14
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Heb 5:4
4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.
Gal 1:11-12
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 2:2
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain.
Gal 2:4
4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),
Titus 1:10-11
10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, for the sake of dishonest gain.
Gal 5:1-2
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
Gal 2:5-9
5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But from those who seemed to be something-- whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man-- for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
1 Cor 7:18-20
18 Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.
Matt 16:18
18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matt 7:24
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock
I Jn 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
1 Cor 11:19
19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
1 Cor 3:4-7
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
Eph 4:1-6
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 1:11-18
11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.
16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Cor 11:18-19
18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.
19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
1 Cor 3:3
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
Rom 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Jude 1:17-19
17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:
18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.
19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
1 Cor 3:4-5
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
1 Cor 3:8
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1 Tim 4:1
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
2 Cor 6:17-18
17 Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
Heb 5:12-14
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(NKJ)
XXX There is no denominations in the new testament. A denomination is a rebellion against the Word of God. A rejection of the truth. There are only two different denominations in the whole bible. If your a believer in the old testament your a Jew. If your a believer in the new testament your a Christian. No other denominations are recognized by God. But if a denomination can last 100 years they probably have a piece of it right. They will never go to hell for the piece they have right. But they will go to hell for the piece they have wrong. Dont get me wrong denominations are necassary. They do have a purpose. They teach the milk understanding of the Word.




Matt 13:24-30
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
(NKJ)

1 Cor 11:16-19
16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse.
18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it.
19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.
(NKJ)

 

[Shaolin]

You are so emotional. Calm down.

LOL! Just go read your Urantia book some more...

LOL!

 

[Shaolin]

John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him (Jesus), to them gave He power to become the SONS OF GOD, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the
will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Yes, indeed, speaking of the adoption...of which you obviously don't understand. The reason salvation has been given to people is just as I stated, and not as you have...

John 17:3
This is the purpose for eternal life; so that they can come to know You personally, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Coupled with...

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them, "I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

Since the purpose of being given eternal life through salvation is to come to know God, and IF you understood the purpose of atonement and what it is for, then you might be able to understand that only those who know God and whom He knows will enter heaven. Heaven is where God lives, and where He will take His family to live with Him for the rest of eternity. The purpose is two-fold: to be able to enter into His presence for personal relationship so that we can spend time with Him and come to know Him personally, so that we can live with Him for the rest of eternity.

You seem to have a rudimentary knoweldge of Scripture, but apparently don't know how to rightly divide it, most likely because you have never studied, nor utilize, a complete Biblical hermeneutic in your 'study' time.

Easy with the name calling as I run JW's off my property with truths they do not understand. Not intentionally, but those i've met so far have no teeth to chew solid food with and care not
what is written in the Bible they are only trying to make disciples of their own denomination to make themselves feel as though they are right which is what all denominations do.
Indeed organized Christianity is a stumbling stone that must also be overcome as all will teach a subtle but blinding form of self righteousness from belonging to the group.

Technically, that was not name calling, that was group assigning, or group identification. As for your last line, it is truly telling...so you are another one of those pretended "lone rangers" who avoids "organized Christianity" who regularly come to Christian forums armed only with carnal surmisings void of any real spiritual insight from above. Directly contradicting the Scriptures in the command to come together as a church. Truly telling, indeed.

Your particular view points come straight from Catholisicm but you do not see me calling you a Catholic.

Yes, that would be yet another mistake you would have made. Here's some help for you...if a person espouses calvinistic false doctrines, then he is a calvinist whether he wants to call himself a calvinist or not. When a person espoused Arianstic doctrines then he is an arianist, like you, whether he wants to call himself one or not. I follow what the Scriptures teach, through and through...the fact that some catholics might also see those truths in Scripture and follow them, has nothing to do with me or what I believe or what I am.

BTW, you do understand that arianism is a false doctrine, right? And no one can go to heaven, or even get saved, if he chooses to believe that Jesus Christ is not Yahweh God in the flesh...which He Himself tells you to your face? I advise you to amend your false doctrine to the truth of Scripture, cause you are headed to a place where no one in his right mind wants to end up.

 

[Squeakybro]

LOL! Just go read your Urantia book some more...

LOL!

What do you do just make this stuff up as you go. Or have you got a hecklers are us hand book?? Who is Urantia?

 

[Samson2020]

BTW, you do understand that arianism is a false doctrine, right? And no one can go to heaven, or even get saved, if he chooses to believe that Jesus Christ is not Yahweh God in the flesh...which He Himself tells you to your face? I advise you to amend your false doctrine to the truth of Scripture, cause you are headed to a place where no one in his right mind wants to end up.

I am saved by grace through faith that God gave me prior to my infilling with the Holy Ghost.
He has spent the last 20 plus yrs adding to my understanding.
I have laid hands on those who have been healed as He has directed me. Even sent me to do it.
I have cast out unclean spirits from those that were presented to me.
I have heard His voice many times telling me where to go and what to say and who to say it to.
I don't believe that bantering words with you will change your mind nor will your words change mine.
The great lie that God will send as a delusion to those who cannot or will not embrace the truth has them captured in the false doctrine you espouse.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father, not His own Father. No one has ever begotten themselves including Jesus.

I'll share with you a short testimony:

One night many years ago I was woken from sleep at 3:33 in the morning and heard the word Jeremiah. This is how the Holy Ghost communicated with me in the early years. I knew
I was to look at Jeremiah 3:33 but I did not want to get up, so I was laying there, having never moved, and telling the Lord in my spirit that I would do it first thing in the morning
when I got up. My wife who was a good 3 feet away from me in a kingsize bed, said "Your not doing what I told you to do", she settled a bit and never woke. He spoke to me
using her vocal cords, what a chastisement that night was.
Needless to say I got up and looked for Jeremiah 3:33 and there is no Jeremiah 3:33 but there is a Jeremiah 33:3 and it states:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."

Needless to say I did and He has for many many years, so like Paul who wrote the scripture to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together, I was set apart from the "churches"
of my area as they all threw me out as He continued to show me truths they could not or would not accept. However; most are unable to receive these things for they have not
earned the right to the hidden manna reserved for the overcomers. PS He decides who will overcome and who will not, thus He decides who gets the hidden manna and who does not.
"Many are called but few are chosen."

To end this I would only say that the early church had no New testament writings to read but yet "God added to the church daily, such as should be saved" so by grace were they saved just
as I.
And Paul who spent most of his time on the earth, after his conversion, in prison, didn't show up at a church 2-3 times weekly. Being a prisoner kinda stifles that option.
Just as John when exiled on the Isle of Patmos, gathering together is not an option.
Having witnessed the milk that is served up 3 times a week in the current churches, if that was all the food you received you would starve to death. But bring to them something God has
given you and out you go simply because they care not to consume anything other than milk. I was drawn from the breast decades ago!

"My sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow"

 

[Squeakybro]

I am saved by grace through faith that God gave me prior to my infilling with the Holy Ghost.
He has spent the last 20 plus yrs adding to my understanding.
I have laid hands on those who have been healed as He has directed me. Even sent me to do it.
I have cast out unclean spirits from those that were presented to me.
I have heard His voice many times telling me where to go and what to say and who to say it to.
I don't believe that bantering words with you will change your mind nor will your words change mine.
The great lie that God will send as a delusion to those who cannot or will not embrace the truth has them captured in the false doctrine you espouse.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father, not His own Father. No one has ever begotten themselves including Jesus.

I'll share with you a short testimony:

One night many years ago I was woken from sleep at 3:33 in the morning and heard the word Jeremiah. This is how the Holy Ghost communicated with me in the early years. I knew
I was to look at Jeremiah 3:33 but I did not want to get up, so I was laying there, having never moved, and telling the Lord in my spirit that I would do it first thing in the morning
when I got up. My wife who was a good 3 feet away from me in a kingsize bed, said "Your not doing what I told you to do", she settled a bit and never woke. He spoke to me
using her vocal cords, what a chastisement that night was.
Needless to say I got up and looked for Jeremiah 3:33 and there is no Jeremiah 3:33 but there is a Jeremiah 33:3 and it states:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."

Needless to say I did and He has for many many years, so like Paul who wrote the scripture to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together, I was set apart from the "churches"
of my area as they all threw me out as He continued to show me truths they could not or would not accept. However; most are unable to receive these things for they have not
earned the right to the hidden manna reserved for the overcomers. PS He decides who will overcome and who will not, thus He decides who gets the hidden manna and who does not.
"Many are called but few are chosen."

To end this I would only say that the early church had no New testament writings to read but yet "God added to the church daily, such as should be saved" so by grace were they saved just
as I.
And Paul who spent most of his time on the earth, after his conversion, in prison, didn't show up at a church 2-3 times weekly. Being a prisoner kinda stifles that option.
Just as John when exiled on the Isle of Patmos, gathering together is not an option.
Having witnessed the milk that is served up 3 times a week in the current churches, if that was all the food you received you would starve to death. But bring to them something God has
given you and out you go simply because they care not to consume anything other than milk. I was drawn from the breast decades ago!

"My sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow"

I went through alot of the same things. God separated me to write this b ook.I have been writing it for 40 years now. Its the revelations of Jesus Christ. The first 7 years I received over 800 personal revelations for me. Then He started giving me revelations to share with others. Which is what I am doing on this site. I have received over 3000 revelations in the past 30 years. I was going to have it published but they said they have a rule not to publish any book with more than 14% being scripture. And my Book is more like 90% scripture.

 

[Samson2020]

I went through alot of the same things. God separated me to write this b ook.I have been writing it for 40 years now. Its the revelations of Jesus Christ. The first 7 years I received over 800 personal revelations for me. Then He started giving me revelations to share with others. Which is what I am doing on this site. I have received over 3000 revelations in the past 30 years. I was going to have it published but they said they have a rule not to publish any book with more than 14% being scripture. And my Book is more like 90% scripture.

Yes it is strange to most that the Holy Ghost who wrote the Bible is the only one who can piece the jigsaw back together for you. All of the mainstream that are not spiritual at all want
to tell everybody you can't take it out of context, but yet it was written out of context. What was physical at one point in time is also an allegory of the spiritual for some of us now.
The perfect example is the overcomers challenges in Revelation 2 and 3. These were churches in the physical back then but yet each challenge speaks to every individual depending
on where they are in their own personal development. As each individual son overcomes he is rewarded accordingly. Most see this as only historical and cannot see the spiritual
aspect of it whatsoever. But then again the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

 

[Squeakybro]

Yes it is strange to most that the Holy Ghost who wrote the Bible is the only one who can piece the jigsaw back together for you. All of the mainstream that are not spiritual at all want
to tell everybody you can't take it out of context, but yet it was written out of context. What was physical at one point in time is also an allegory of the spiritual for some of us now.
The perfect example is the overcomers challenges in Revelation 2 and 3. These were churches in the physical back then but yet each challenge speaks to every individual depending
on where they are in their own personal development. As each individual son overcomes he is rewarded accordingly. Most see this as only historical and cannot see the spiritual
aspect of it whatsoever. But then again the natural man cannot understand the things of the spirit.

SEVEN CHURCHES
Rev 1:20
20 "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
(NKJ)

Rev 2:1-3:11

CHAPTER 2
PREACHERS AND TEACHERS
1 "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, 'These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;
3 "and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary.
4 "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5 "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-- unless you repent.
6 "But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."'

POOR
8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, 'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:
9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
10 "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."'

MANS JUSTICE SYSTEM
12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, 'These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:
13 "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.
14 "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.
15 "Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it."'


WOMEN
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:
19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
20 "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 "And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.
22 "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
23 "I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
24 "Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden.
25 "But hold fast what you have till I come.
26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations--
27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; they shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-- as I also have received from My Father;
28 "and I will give him the morning star.
29 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."'

CHAPTER 3
MEN
1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, 'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.
2 "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.
3 "Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.
4 "You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."'

BORN AGAIN SPIRIT FILLED
7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":
8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.
9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
11 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
13 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."'

RICH
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'-- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."' "
(NKJ)
xxx The seven groups of people that you will find Christians in. See also seven spirits of God.

 

[Shaolin]

I am saved by grace through faith that God gave me prior to my infilling with the Holy Ghost.

Wrong...no where in Scripture do we find the false calvinistic doctrine that God gives people faith in order to get saved. There is only one passage that says God gives faith, and that is not saving faith but the supernatural faith as one of the gifts of the Spirit in order to perform supernatural works.

He has spent the last 20 plus yrs adding to my understanding.
I have laid hands on those who have been healed as He has directed me. Even sent me to do it.
I have cast out unclean spirits from those that were presented to me.
I have heard His voice many times telling me where to go and what to say and who to say it to.
I don't believe that bantering words with you will change your mind nor will your words change mine.

So far, so good...according to these words, IF they are true, then you used to be walking with God just like I am. But, let's continue...

The great lie that God will send as a delusion to those who cannot or will not embrace the truth has them captured in the false doctrine you espouse.

I espouse no false doctrine...notice that I said that IF what you claimed above was true. However, if you do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, then you are a lair...or you didn't heal or do anything by the power of God, but by that of satan, which I have witnessed on occasions. Why? Because if you don't believe the Biblical truth, then you have no spiritual power or authority to do anything, and only come to places like this to deceive people.

How do we know that a deceiver is what he is, sam? Because Scripture tells us what the truth is...and when you come here claiming a direct contradiction to what Scripture clearly teaches - that makes you a deceived deceiver.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father, not His own Father. No one has ever begotten themselves including Jesus.

That is carnal, unregenerated reasoning, sam...and NOT what Scripture teaches...

5. The witness of the Apostles:

John 1:1-3*
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were brought into existence by Him, and without Him was not anything brought into existence that was brought into existence.

1. First, it is important to know and understand that verses 1-18 are John’s Prologue to his gospel account. This is important because it needs to be read, interpreted, and understood as a prologue and not the beginning of his body of work. It is the introduction to the main theme of John’s work, and that main theme is the deity of Christ.

2. “In the beginning” – some try to make this opening phrase to mean the beginning of the preaching of the gospel, out of bias for the false doctrines that they hold to. There is no article before arche, therefore it means before there was any beginning whatsoever, which destroys the idea that it means in the beginning of the gospel (a favorite interpretation of unitarians and arians). This same meaning and rule of Greek grammar applies to the “beginning” in verse 2.

Therefore, John makes reference to the beginning before creation (creation is not mentioned linearly until verse 3). Since all things were “made by Him,” then He had to exist before He could make all things. Furthermore, the idea that “in the beginning” intends the beginning of the gospel, rather than in the beginning before creation, does not stand up under the weight of the Scriptural evidence. (see John 17:5, Eph. 1:4)

Furthermore, note the use of “en apch” (in beginning) instead of “ap apxhV” (from beginning) in John’s writings – “in the beginning” addresses ‘time’ before creation (John 1:1, John 1:2), and “from the beginning” addresses either the point of creation, or when the gospel age started (John 6:64, 8:25, 44; 15:27, 16:4; 1 John 1:1, 2:7, 13, 14, 24; 3:8, 11; 2 John 1:5-6).

3. “was” (in the imperfect tense, which conveys “a past continuing”) denotes absolute existence, not created existence in time and space. In this imperfect tense, eimi literally means “was existing,” a direct implication of past eternal existence. He was not speaking of ideas, knowledge, plans, or any other such mental acuity of God before creation or any other time – but of the substance of existing in some tangible spiritual form.

4. “the Word” – what is the identity of the Word? Unitarians rely upon extrabiblical (natural) definitions of the term and completely ignore semantics. Furthermore, John’s viewpoint in using logos as an identifier of Christ is from that of the Old Testament, not from that of Stoics, Philo, or any other philosopher of the logos. It is recognized by all scholars and theologian of any weight, that we find certain specific words (or phrases) in Paul and John where they semantically use words (or phrases) but fill them with their own intentional meanings.

The “Logos” is one of those terms found only in John wherein he intends the meaning of the preincarnate Christ, which he tells us in plain language in verses 14-15. John uses the term without explanation to us today, but which was well known to his readers – which is why when we ignore cultural/historical principles in our interpretation of Scripture, we assign false interpretations to the narratives in question.

Therefore, we must tackle this question based upon both historical and grammatical grounds, NOT simply grammatical alone – to do so would be a failure of due diligence on the part of the exegete. John tells us that “the Word became (ginomai – came into a change of state of being) flesh and dwelt among us” and that John the Baptist bore witness about Him saying “He who comes after me ranks before me, because He existed before I did,” in reference to His identity as eternal deity.

Both John the Baptist’s, and John the Apostle’s witness concerning Christ, is that He was the preincarnate Yahweh manifest in the flesh. This is the identity of “the Word” according to Scripture. Yahweh, who has always been, came into a change of state of being when He manifested Himself in the form of human flesh in the incarnate Messiah, just as the grammar of the text clearly states. This first clause, more accurately rendered, states: “In the beginning, He was the Word.”

5. In the second clause, John uses the preposition pros (proV) which basically means toward; but with the accusative, as it is in this text, it takes on the meaning of either in, with, by, or among, particularly with the accusative of person. Furthermore, it presents a plane of equality and intimacy, where two are face to face with each other. In this sense, a better rendering of the second clause could read, “and the Word was in God.”

6. “The Word was God” – again, “was” is in the imperfect tense, which conveys “a past continuing”) denoting absolute existence, not created existence in time and space. Here, according to the Greek grammar, John tells us that the Word has always been in absolute existence as deity – Yahweh God in the flesh, now come to be manifest and incarnate in human flesh. The way John phrased this part of the text completely destroys the false argument that the Word was only in the mind of God as His plans, intellect, or thoughts...because John tells us that the Word “WAS God,” not the Word was a figment of God’s imagination, intellect, or plan(s).

7. As to the grammar and word placing in the text:

The predicate is emphatically placed in the proposition before the subject, because of the progress of the thought; this being the third and highest statement respecting the Word - the climax of the two preceding propositions. The word God, used attributively, maintains the personal distinction between God and the Word, but makes the unity of essence and nature to follow the distinction of person, and ascribes to the Word all the attributes of the divine essence. [Vincent’s Word Studies, electronic version]

8. In verse 2, John continues the narrative; “was” is still in the imperfect tense, meaning an eternal existence in the past. “Beginning” is still being used by him as denoting eternity past before the physical creation of anything that was created. In this verse John is telling us that the Word (Christ) existed in eternity past with God before anything was created. Thus far, John presents the Word and God as two distinct persons sharing the attributes and nature of deity.

9. In verse 3 John tells us that the Word created all things, but we must look at the Greek to get the full and accurate rendering of the text: The preposition “dia” (basic meaning of through or throughout) takes on different meanings in translating based upon different grammatical cues. In the case of the present text under consideration, which is in the genitive, it takes on the meaning of “efficient cause,” the author or first cause of a work.

In this case, it does not mean “through” but “by,” (all things came into being by Him); otherwise stated as “all things were created by Him.” Since Yahweh God is the Creator, and the Word is also clearly stated here as the Creator, the reference is to Christ before He became flesh incarnate – God. The text continues in saying that nothing that has ever been created (come into existence) came into existence without Him, confirming and ratifying that the Word is the Creator.

The verb was (ēn) is in the imperfect tense which depicts continual existence, a continuous state, not a completed past. As Phillips says "It suggests the idea of "absolute, supra-temporal existence." Or stated another way, the verb in this tense "denotes neither a completed state nor a coming into being. It is appropriate to eternal, unchanging being. John is affirming that the Word existed before creation, which makes it clear that the Word was not created." (Morris). "The Word continually was" is the idea. This truth provides definitive proof of Christ’s deity, for only God is eternal. As Phillips says, John "does not refer to a start, but to an infinite state!" [www.preceptaustin.org/john_11_commentary]

Was (1510) (ēn which is the imperfect form of eimi) means to be and is the usual verb for existence. In the metaphysical sense as in John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word,” meaning it had been before there was any beginning or existed before the beginning of anything; John 8:50, estín, in the present tense indicating." (Zodhiates) Notice John does not say in the beginning CAME the Word or BEGAN the Word, but WAS the Word. This verb is in the imperfect tense which speak of continuous action. In a word, the Word was continually existing! [Austin, abid]

Watch John's masterful use of the Greek verbs and Greek tenses -- four times in Jn 1:1-2 he uses the imperfect tense (ēn) of the verb eimi to say the Word was God (all of John's statements regarding His pre-existence are in this tense), but in Jn 1:14-note he uses the verb ginomai in the aorist tense (egeneto) (punctiliar, an instantaneous intervention, decisive, at a moment or point in time - the aorist usage here refers to some historical time in the past as the beginning of the new state) He became Man. So Jesus who always was God, became Man in a moment in time, doing so without ceasing to be God! John never says Christ became God but only that He was (always) God! [Austin, abid]

It is notable that the verb ēn (imperfect of eimi) is used by John in every instance where he is referring to the eternal state of Jesus (see Jn 1:1, 2, 4, 8, 9, 10, 15). One exception might be John's use of ginomai in an allusion to Jesus' existence before [implying His eternal state] John (the Baptist) (Jn 1:15-note). [Austin, abid]

As discussed above John uses ginomai in the aorist tense (egeneto) to refer to becoming something that one was not before in John 1:14-note where God became a Man. In addition to John 1:14, other uses of ginomai in the aorist tense (egeneto) in John's prologue are found in John 1:3-note (twice in the phrase "came into being"), John 1:6 ("There came a man, sent from God"), John 1:10-note ("the world was made through Him") and John 1:17-note ("grace and truth were realized [came] through Jesus Christ."). [Austin, abid]

Note that ginomai is also used in the perfect tense in John 1:3 (“has come into being”) and John 1:15-note (“He existed before me”), where the perfect tense implies a continuing existence of a new state. [Austin, abid]

10. Aside from all of the grammar, there is another aspect of John’s use of “the Word” in describing Jesus Christ, which is found in two Messianic prophecies:


Isaiah 42:6
I, Yahweh, declare You righteous, and I will strengthen Your hand, and will keep You and set You as a covenant for the people, a light unto the Gentiles,

Isaiah 49:8
Yahweh says this: In the time of favor I will answer You, on the day of deliverance I will help You; I will keep You and set You as a covenant to the people, to make binding the land so as to possess the deserted inheritances;


Through study of Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) covenants, we come across in particular, Suzerain-Vassal covenants, where the covenant that is being offered by the Suzerain (conquering) king, to the would-be Vassal king, is called in the prologue of the covenant, “the Word of the Great King...”

In Isaiah God speaks to the Messiah who was to come and says that He (God the Father) is going to make the Messiah to be His living New Covenant. There is no doubt that the covenant which God speaks about is the New Covenant, and He says that Christ will be the living embodiment of His covenant “for” and “to” the people. In other words, by calling Christ the “Word” in his prologue, John intimates a direct connection back to these two passages in Isaiah, where he is basically telling us in no uncertain terms, that Christ is the living New Covenant of God made manifest in the flesh. As such, every word that Christ speaks that has to do with doctrine, are aspects of God’s New Covenant in Christ and are, in fact, covenant doctrines.


John 1:18*
No one has ever seen God; the unique God, who is in the Father's bosom, He has made Him known.


This verse has some textual variants in the Greek manuscripts; however, the majority of critics agree that monogenes theos (unique God) was the original reading. The best and oldest Greek manuscripts (Aleph B C L) read monogenes theos, which is undoubtedly the true and original wording. Reymond points out, “The reputable textual critic must admit that the evidence points rather decisively in favor of an original theos.” [[1]] The “one and only God” has the least doubt in terms of manuscript evidence; all attempts to make the text say otherwise is to place your bets on shaky evidence.

According to the vast majority of scholars, theos is attested in the best Alexandrian majuscule and in the earliest available MSS manuscripts. Furthermore, the quality of the Western MS supporting “theos” is comparatively greater than all Alexandrian MSS supporting documents for “vios” (son). Given the totality of the weight of the evidence, both internally and externally, “theos” is most likely the correct word used in this text.

Regardless of which reading one takes, the force of the text is not weakened in its intended meaning – Christ is still deity. As for “who is in the Father’s bosom,” this related directly back to John 1:1 where we read that “the Word was with God.” We must also remember that from the very beginning of John’s Gospel, his purpose and intent was to demonstrate that Christ was God in the flesh, from the very first verse, unto the very last. For him to use “son” instead of “God” would have been out of character with the rest of his gospel.

The textual problem μονογενὴς θεός (monogenēs theos, “the only God”) versus ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός (ho monogenēs huios, “the only son”) is a notoriously difficult one. Only one letter would have differentiated the readings in the mss, since both words would have been contracted as nomina sacra: thus qMs or uMs. Externally, there are several variants, but they can be grouped essentially by whether they read θεός or υἱός. The majority of mss, especially the later ones, read ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός. P א 33 have ὁ μονογενὴς θεός, while the anarthrous μονογενὴς θεός is found in P א* B C* L. The articular θεός is almost certainly a scribal emendation to the anarthrous θεός, for θεός without the article is a much harder reading. [The NET Bible, online study notes]

The external evidence thus strongly supports μονογενὴς θεός. Internally, although υἱός fits the immediate context more readily, θεός is much more difficult. As well, θεός also explains the origin of the other reading (υἱός), because it is difficult to see why a scribe who found υἱός in the text he was copying would alter it to θεός. [The NET Bible, online study notes]

Scribes would naturally change the wording to υἱός however, since μονογενὴς υἱός is a uniquely Johannine christological title (cf. John 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9). But θεός as the older and more difficult reading is preferred. As for translation, it makes the most sense to see the word θεός as in apposition to μονογενής, and the participle ὁ ὤν (ho ōn) as in apposition to θεός, giving in effect three descriptions of Jesus rather than only two. [The NET Bible, online study notes]

The modern translations which best express this are the NEB (margin) and TEV. Several things should be noted: μονογενής alone, without υἱός, can mean “only son,” “unique son,” “unique one,” etc. (see 1:14). Furthermore, θεός is anarthrous. As such it carries qualitative force much like it does in 1:1c, where θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (theos ēn ho logos) means “the Word was fully God” or “the Word was fully of the essence of deity.” Finally, ὁ ὤν occurs in Rev 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17; and 16:5, but even more significantly in the LXX of Exod 3:14. Putting all of this together leads to the translation given in the text (“the one and only unique God...”). [The NET Bible, online study notes]
[1] Jesus, Divine Messiah; Reymond, Robert L., Phillipsburg, NJ; Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1990’ pg. 306.

There are numerous others, but I will stop here for now...

I'll share with you a short testimony:

One night many years ago I was woken from sleep at 3:33 in the morning and heard the word Jeremiah. This is how the Holy Ghost communicated with me in the early years. I knew
I was to look at Jeremiah 3:33 but I did not want to get up, so I was laying there, having never moved, and telling the Lord in my spirit that I would do it first thing in the morning
when I got up. My wife who was a good 3 feet away from me in a kingsize bed, said "Your not doing what I told you to do", she settled a bit and never woke. He spoke to me
using her vocal cords, what a chastisement that night was.
Needless to say I got up and looked for Jeremiah 3:33 and there is no Jeremiah 3:33 but there is a Jeremiah 33:3 and it states:

Yah...I think not. What I see here is a lot of carnal reasoning...I have also had demons talk to me until I recognized what it was and rebuked it back into the darkness. The difference here, is that since you were never saved, you never heard God's voice.

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."

Needless to say I did and He has for many many years, so like Paul who wrote the scripture to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together, I was set apart from the "churches"
of my area as they all threw me out as He continued to show me truths they could not or would not accept. However; most are unable to receive these things for they have not
earned the right to the hidden manna reserved for the overcomers. PS He decides who will overcome and who will not, thus He decides who gets the hidden manna and who does not.
"Many are called but few are chosen."

Yah...more nonsense here. First, God does not decide who overcomes and who does not, that is more calvinistic false doctrine, and as long as you espouse that unbiblical nonsense, you will never be able to come to know the truth found in Scripture. Second, there is no such thing as a holy ghost...ghosts are supposed to be the disembodied spirits of dead human beings - but Scripture teaches that a person goes to hell or heaven upon their death, they do not hang around here upon the earth. God's Spirit is the Holy Spirit, not a holy ghost. I have no doubt that you were called, so is every human being...but it is also obvious by what you claim that you were not chosen.

To end this I would only say that the early church had no New testament writings to read but yet "God added to the church daily, such as should be saved" so by grace were they saved just
as I.

That's more false calvinistic doctrinal nonsense...no one is saved "by grace," Scripture does not teach that in the original Greek. We are saved because of grace, not by grace (but I can show you that on another thread). Yes, the early church did not have the NT...they had the OT Scriptures, and according to Paul in different places, the OT Scriptures teach the gospel just as clearly as the NT.

And Paul who spent most of his time on the earth, after his conversion, in prison, didn't show up at a church 2-3 times weekly.

Your point here is moot. The church was just starting out, and God raised up 12 apostles (and added some later) to get the church started. This is 2000 years later, and you are no apostle, neither, I see, were you ever called by God into any one of the five-fold offices of ministry in the church...yet you make yourself what God has not made you. Being a self made man, your words are empty of power and drop to the floor as soon as you speak them.

Being a prisoner kinda stifles that option.
Just as John when exiled on the Isle of Patmos, gathering together is not an option.

Nice carnal reasoning...but you are not in prison (are you?) and neither have you been banished to an uninhabited island. True to calvinistic nonsense, you are taking texts out of their contexts and deceiving yourself into thinking that you are something when you are nothing. You are not the first, and definitely will not be the last. At least you are not claiming to be God's mouth-piece to the church today...or the archangel michael, or the messiah...or are you?

Having witnessed the milk that is served up 3 times a week in the current churches, if that was all the food you received you would starve to death. But bring to them something God has
given you and out you go simply because they care not to consume anything other than milk. I was drawn from the breast decades ago!

Apparently you are self deluded on that point, too...

"My sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow"

Are you quoting Jesus here, or are you claiming to be Jesus here?

Either way, I can tell by the way that you put it that you have absolutely no idea what Jesus said here, particularly since you didn't give its address or context.

 

[Squeakybro]

Judge Outside Or Judge Inside?
John 7:24
24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

[Jas 3:5-6, 8
[5] Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles!
[6] And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. ...
[8] But no man can tame the tongue. [It is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
1 Cor 11:31
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
Matt 6:13-15
13 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matt 18:21-35
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 "Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
24 "And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 "But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made.
26 "The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, 'Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
27 "Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, 'Pay me what you owe!'
29 "So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.'
30 "And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt.
31 "So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done.
32 "Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me.
33 'Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?'
34 "And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 "So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses."
Luke 7:41-43
41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
42 "And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?"
43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."
Luke 7:47-50
47 "Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."
48 And He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
50 Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
(NKJ)
xxx The Holy Spirit leads us into judging ourselves with the Word. In the old testament the Jews judged outside of themselves. They could only judge what someone did. Jesus came to teach us to judge inside(ourselves) and find out why. If one can take care of the problem inside before it ever comes out one is blessed.

 

[Samson2020]

Wrong...no where in Scripture do we find the false calvinistic doctrine that God gives people faith in order to get saved. There is only one passage that says God gives faith, and that is not saving faith but the supernatural faith as one of the gifts of the Spirit in order to perform supernatural works.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that(faith) not of yourselves it(faith) is the gift of God."

So we see clearly that you are 100% wrong.

Either way, I can tell by the way that you put it that you have absolutely no idea what Jesus said here, particularly since you didn't give its address or context.

What context would you like? He simply said His sheep hear His voice, I do, but I doubt you have.

Please don't respond to me as I have no interest in arguing with an unlearned child.

 

[Squeakybro]

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that(faith) not of yourselves it(faith) is the gift of God."

So we see clearly that you are 100% wrong.



What context would you like? He simply said His sheep hear His voice, I do, but I doubt you have.

Please don't respond to me as I have no interest in arguing with an unlearned child.

God starts out everyone with a measure of faith. That can only be used to lead one into being saved.
[Eph 2:8-9 NKJV]
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
[Rom 12:3 NKJV]
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.