The WORD MADE FLESH

[Samson2020]

What does this verse imply to you?

John 1:14 "And the WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Keeping in mind that there were no differences in letters like caps vs small and that the parantheses are a thought of the translator that are not in the original text.

So if we take that out we get this:

"and the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."

We conclude that the flesh was Jesus of whom this speaks. The real question is the word WORD.
Jesus Himself used parables like the sower soweth the WORD, but was He sowing Himself?
Making the WORD of God of none effect through your traditions. Did this then mean that Jesus was of none effect because of their traditions? Or was it a lack of ability to
receive/understand the divine purpose of God (His word)?

Or was Jesus as the fleshly first example of a spiritually begotten Son of God showing what the plan/word of God was, Himself the only example at that time?

 

[Beetow]

• Gen 1:26a . . And God said: Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness.

The introduction of the plural personal pronouns "us" and "our" into the narrative at
this point has given rise to some interesting speculation regarding the identities of
the antecedents. But we need not guess because within the context of the first
chapter of Genesis, God is revealed as:

1) Himself

2) His spirit

3) His voice.

Those three aspects of God's existence took part in creating the cosmos-- all its
forms of life, matter, and energy --and seeing as how they are spoken of as "us"
and as "our" then I think it's safe to regard those three aspects as sentient beings,
i.e. persons.

FAQ: God's voice is a person?

REPLY: Yes; a very person.

• John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Greek noun translated "Word" is logos (log'-os) which basically refers to
something spoken as opposed to something going on in one's thoughts, viz: logos
refers to voice, i.e. speech; for example:

"By the voice of God the heavens were of old" (2Pet 3:5)

Please don't ask me how God's voice is a sentient being because it is just too far
beyond the capability of my below-average IQ to comprehend.

What's even more mysterious is how God's voice became an h.sapiens.

• John 1:14 . . So the Logos became human and lived here on earth among us.
_

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible is Jesus. Now obviously He isn't ink on sheepskin or papyrus, or even paper.
But the Bible is the very essence of Jesus. Of God.

Jesus authored the entire Bible, (through inspiration of the Holy Spirit through men).
You can say Jesus wrote the entire Bible. Everything in the Bible points to Jesus.

2Tim 3:16; All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Some people get hung-up on Logos. But it really doesn't matter what the word here is.
You could use the word "hamster" or a "bicycle", it doesn't matter. Whatever "it" was. It was God, and it was with God.
God became flesh and dwelt among us.

Matt 1:23; Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

The Father calls the Son God.

 

[B-A-C]

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Who made the Earth, why God did of course.

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Jesus created everything.

Col 1:15; He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Some people get hung up on the fact He was "the firstborn of creation". But just because He was the first thing made into a physical/material being, doesn't mean He didn't exist before that time.

 

[Samson2020]

I like that you brought up the Greek for word, logos.
My understanding of that word is that it is a plan, or divine purpose, or reason.
Not being a Greek or Hebrew scholar I have to trust. to some degree. what others have decided meanings of the words are, just like every word that we believe we understand the meaning of.

But when I consider the teachings of Jesus that it was the WORD that He was sowing/teaching, which was the WAY to see the Kingdom then I can't help but be a skeptic as to the true meaning of LOGOS.
In the KJV it is my understanding that the word LOGOS has been translated into 25 different English words. Word only being one of the 25.
Now if I take Vines Expository Dictionary as a reference, "logos" is defined as " the expression of thought, as embodying a concept or idea."

Now lets take for example Mark 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch as there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door:
and He (Jesus) preached the WORD unto them.

Matthew 13:19 When anyone heareth the WORD of the Kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart.........
Matthew 13:20-21 But he that received the seed into stony places , the same is he that heareth the WORD, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root within himself, but
dureth for awhile: for when persecution or tribulation ariseth because of the WORD , by and by he is offended.

Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the WORD, and UNDERSTANDETH IT, which also bears fruit.......................

From this parable one just might conclude that the Word that was being taught was indeed a PLAN, REASON, PURPOSE etc.... and not a person.
Jesus is not an IT as described in 23, and seeing these are the words of the Father, the Word has to be the PLAN of God that was being taught by His Son who was the only
person on the face of the earth that understood it, for He was the first to be living it out.

Now if this be true then in the beginning was the PLAN, and the PLAN was with God, and the PLAN was God.

We see that "Unto the Son He saith thy throne O God is forever and ever....................... Thus Jesus is indeed a God according to the Father, however the Father tells us many many
times in the OT that there is no other God than Himself. So how can God call Jesus God and not be lying about any other Gods being with Him?
Possibly since Jesus was the first to complete the WORD/PLAN of the kingdom when He was glorified and obtained life within Himself He was proclaimed to be a God by God,
thus the Father could not say any longer there was no other God with Him at that point in time.

We understand that when He(Jesus) shall appear we shall see Him as He is for we shall be like Him. If we are like Him and possess life within ourselves and have been perfected
by the PLAN/WORD of God then we also are called Gods. "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" John 10:34
This then is the first step in the completion of the PLAN of God, which stated the WORD/PLAN was God. Jesus became the first complete expression of the thoughts of God.
The Father is the only true God according to Jesus( John 17:3 ), but yet the Father has proclaimed Jesus to be a God, thus Jesus could not be the only true God as He received His
life from the Father, just as we whom are the elect receive of that same life and come to the same perfection, not by our own efforts of course.

Romans 8:10 "And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life because you have been MADE right with God."
John 6:27 "But don't be concerned about perishable things like food. Spend your energy seeking the eternal life that the Son of man can give you. For God the Father has given
ME the seal of His approval."

God gave the Holy Ghost to the Son so that the Son would have life within Himself, thus a God. The Son gives us the Holy Ghost and life as He is the one who baptizes with
the Holy Ghost and with fire, just as His and our Father did for/to Him at Jordan.

Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

I would ask in order to be firstborn from the DEAD, he as GOD would have to have died, but God cannot die as He has life within Himself that makes Him ever existent.
On the other hand Jesus was a man who could, as we, die. And this is the only way that Jesus became the firstborn from the dead is by dying.
Now exactly why would Jesus need to die in order to have FIRST PLACE in everything? According to your thesis He already had that didn't He?

 

[B-A-C]

GOD would have to have died, but God cannot die

The God part of Him did not die. The human part did.
But even the human part is not dead now.

 

[Beetow]

According to the Targums, which were at one time accepted as sacred Jewish
beliefs, God's voice (called Memrá in Aramaic) is a divine being, who is to be
worshipped, served, obeyed, spoken to, and prayed to, as God.

The Jewish apostle John, no doubt schooled in the Targums several years before he
met Jesus (a.k.a. Y'shua) opened his gospel with these remarks:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without
him nothing was made that has been made." (John 1:1-3)

John 1:1-3 was a very Jewish belief back in John's day, and nothing said in
that passage would have raised a single objection from any of his peers and
contemporaries because that passage reflects 100% Targum teachings that were
commonly dispensed in the synagogues of his day.

The Targums taught that God's voice-- the Memra' --reigns supreme upon The
Almighty's throne.

T. Deuteronomy 4:7 . . For what people so great, to whom the Lord is so high in the
Name of the Word of the Lord? But the custom of (other) nations is to carry their
gods upon their shoulders, that they may seem to be nigh them; but they cannot
hear with their ears, (be they nigh or) be they afar off; but the Word of the Lord
sits upon His throne high and lifted up, and hears our prayer what time we pray
before Him and make our petitions. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the Targums, Jacob, an important progenitor of the people of Israel,
worshipped the Memra' as his God.

T. Genesis 28:20-21 . . And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If the Word of the Lord will
be my support, and will keep me in the way that I go, and will give me bread to
eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace;
then shall the Word of the Lord be my God. (Targum Onkelos)
_

 

[Samson2020]

The God part of Him did not die. The human part did.
But even the human part is not dead now.

Hebrews 2:10 "For it became Him (the Father), for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in BRINGING MANY SONS UNTO GLORY, to MAKE the CAPTAIN OF THEIR SALVATION PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS.

So I suppose the human part of God that died, by your response, needed to be perfected because why??? Isn't God already perfect? But on the other hand the word of God says
that Jesus needed to be perfected through sufferings??? As He is the CAPTAIN OF OUR SALVATION, which when complete will bring us as sons unto glory.

1 Sam 15:29 NLT and He who is the glory of Israel will not lie, nor will He change His mind, for HE IS NOT HUMAN, that he should change His mind!
NIV He who is the glory of Israel does not lie or change His mind; for HE IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, that He should change His mind.
ESV And also the glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for He is NOT A MAN, that He should have regret.

Num 23:19 God is not a man that He should lie, neither the son of man that He should repent.......................

According to the Targums, which were at one time accepted as sacred Jewish
beliefs, God's voice (called Memrá in Aramaic) is a divine being, who is to be
worshipped, served, obeyed, spoken to, and prayed to, as God.

The Jewish apostle John, no doubt schooled in the Targums several years before he
met Jesus (a.k.a. Y'shua) opened his gospel with these remarks:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without
him nothing was made that has been made." (John 1:1-3)

John 1:1-3 was a very Jewish belief back in John's day, and nothing said in
that passage would have raised a single objection from any of his peers and
contemporaries because that passage reflects 100% Targum teachings that were
commonly dispensed in the synagogues of his day.

The Targums taught that God's voice-- the Memra' --reigns supreme upon The
Almighty's throne.

T. Deuteronomy 4:7 . . For what people so great, to whom the Lord is so high in the
Name of the Word of the Lord? But the custom of (other) nations is to carry their
gods upon their shoulders, that they may seem to be nigh them; but they cannot
hear with their ears, (be they nigh or) be they afar off; but the Word of the Lord
sits upon His throne high and lifted up, and hears our prayer what time we pray
before Him and make our petitions. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the Targums, Jacob, an important progenitor of the people of Israel,
worshipped the Memra' as his God.

T. Genesis 28:20-21 . . And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If the Word of the Lord will
be my support, and will keep me in the way that I go, and will give me bread to
eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace;
then shall the Word of the Lord be my God. (Targum Onkelos)
_

I must admit I know nothing of the Targum. What I do know is that we are to worship the Father, Honor the Son and Kiss the Son lest He be angry. And that we are the brothers of Jesus
and the sons of God. I cannot perceive how to be Jesus' brother and His Son at the same time.

Although what you present from that is intriguing, it might even help explain why Johns words were interpreted the way they were.
Worshipping Gods voice? That is interesting.

The Targums taught that God's voice-- the Memra' --reigns supreme upon The
Almighty's throne.

So Gods voice was superior to God Himself? Thats a hard one to swallow! But interesting

 

[Beetow]

I cannot perceive how to be Jesus' brother and His Son at the same time.

My son and I are both related to Adam. Our common ancestry makes us brothers
(cousins at least). But I am also his father too-- that makes him my son.

Christ's followers are related to him sort of like that; only quite a bit more complex.

MAKE the CAPTAIN OF THEIR SALVATION PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS.

The perfection in view is related to Jesus' preparation for the Melchizekian
priesthood.

Priests who cannot relate to their fellow man's weary round of life are quite
inadequate as mediators between Man and God.

"Great Spirit: grant that I may not criticize my neighbor
Until I have walked a mile in his moccasins."
( Native American Proverb )

Jesus wasn't privileged, no; he was put thru the meat grinder of life so he'd have a
pretty fair idea of what it's like to live in this mad, mad world of ours.

To start things off, Jesus came into the world minus good looks, and his path in life
only went downhill from there.

• Isa 53:2-3 . .There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,
nothing to attract us to him. He was despised and rejected--a man of sorrows,
acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other
way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care.

(There are quite a few comments tucked away in the Psalms related to Jesus' life
as an ordinary man.)

Canadian folk singer Gordon Lightfoot released a sentimental song back in 1975
that speaks volumes about love and understanding. Its lyrics are very touching.
Here's a few that I feel especially appropriate.

Rainy day people always seem to know when it's time to call.
Rainy day people don't talk, they just listen till they've heard it all.
Rainy day lovers don't lie when they tell 'ya they've been down like you.
Rainy day people don't mind if you're cryin' a tear or two.
_

 

[Samson2020]

The perfection in view is related to Jesus' preparation for the Melchizekian
priesthood.

Priests who cannot relate to their fellow man's weary round of life are quite
inadequate as mediators between Man and God.

I believe this is the point. That a mediator BETWEEN God and Man could not be God because the mediator is between the two.

My son and I are both related to Adam. Our common ancestry makes us brothers
(cousins at least). But I am also his father too-- that makes him my son.

Only problem with the analogy is that Jesus never claims to be our Father but rather only our brother, and that our God is also His God. Thus He and we are all sons/brothers.

 

[Beetow]

Only problem with the analogy

Christ's followers are related to him sort of like me and my son; only quite a bit
more complex.
_

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

What does this verse imply to you?

John 1:14 "And the WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Keeping in mind that there were no differences in letters like caps vs small and that the parantheses are a thought of the translator that are not in the original text.

So if we take that out we get this:

"and the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."

We conclude that the flesh was Jesus of whom this speaks. The real question is the word WORD.
Jesus Himself used parables like the sower soweth the WORD, but was He sowing Himself?
Making the WORD of God of none effect through your traditions. Did this then mean that Jesus was of none effect because of their traditions? Or was it a lack of ability to
receive/understand the divine purpose of God (His word)?

Or was Jesus as the fleshly first example of a spiritually begotten Son of God showing what the plan/word of God was, Himself the only example at that time?

Christ is the Living Word of God, by which all things were created. God in the beginning empowered His Word to give Life. This is why Jesus said as the Father has Life in Himself, He also gave the Son to have Life in Himself.

The first Light mentioned in Genesis is Christ, which is why Jesus said He was the Light of the world. This also explains why Christ is said to be the firstborn of all Creation, and the Light that gives Life to every man that comes into the world.

The mystery is God likened His own Word like a Son, who comes forth from a Father. God created all things by His Living Word Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

 

[Brother Paul]

What does this verse imply to you?

John 1:14 "And the WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Keeping in mind that there were no differences in letters like caps vs small and that the parantheses are a thought of the translator that are not in the original text.

So if we take that out we get this:

"and the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."

We conclude that the flesh was Jesus of whom this speaks. The real question is the word WORD.
Jesus Himself used parables like the sower soweth the WORD, but was He sowing Himself?
Making the WORD of God of none effect through your traditions. Did this then mean that Jesus was of none effect because of their traditions? Or was it a lack of ability to
receive/understand the divine purpose of God (His word)?

Or was Jesus as the fleshly first example of a spiritually begotten Son of God showing what the plan/word of God was, Himself the only example at that time?

Where do you get that what moderns have placed in a parentheses is not in the original text? Show me your evidence for this? The Word as a Hypostasis of YHVH was known to the Jewish rabbis as well from even before Jesus. They simply did not believe He was this being, In most of their commentary (like in Jonathan's mid-first century Targum) whenever YHVH was manifest and could be seen and/or heard it was the Word (in Aramaic He is called the YHVH-Memra). To have "dwelt" among us (from to pitch tent) means God (YHVH) was tabernacling IN the man Christ Jesus. By His will, God became incarnate.

 

[Beetow]

• John 14:6 . . I am the truth.

The Bible presents Jesus as an honest man (1Pet 2:22) but I think in that verse he
is claiming to be not just truthful, but the very embodiment of truth; and no
surprise seeing as the Word of John 1:1-3 is God's voice, and as such makes it
impossible for Jesus to lie because in order for Jesus to lie; his Father would have
to lie; which isn't likely.

• John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's Spirit is
upon him without measure or limit

• John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which
I have heard of Him.

• John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the
Father taught me.

• John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he
gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

• John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent
me.
_

 

[Samson2020]

• John 14:6 . . I am the truth.

What exactly does that statement mean to you? I speak only the truth? I am the beginning of a new creation of the Father? I am what the Fathers plan has always been, to create
sons unto the Father and I am the first?

 

[Samson2020]

Where do you get that what moderns have placed in a parentheses is not in the original text?

Look it up, but there is argument. However it is understood that when something within a verse is in parentheses it was used to expand and better comprehend the verse(s) in question,
although if left out the verse would not change.

 

[Br. Bear]

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6

(as a point of interest:

Isaiah

יְשַׁעְיָ֣הוּ (ye·sha'·ya·hu)

: "salvation of Yah," three Isr.

from yasha and Yah

of Joshua,

יְהֹושֻׁ֙עַ֙ (ye·ho·v·shu·a')

"the LORD is salvation," Moses' successor, also the name of a number of Isr.

from Yhvh and yasha

of Jesus

Ἰησοῦ (iēsou)

Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.

of Hebrew origin Yehoshua