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We are a living soul. That means we have a physical body made alive by our spirit. When our physical body dies, our spirit lives on in consciousness. Why or why don't you believe this, and use scriptures to prove your beliefs.
Do Our Spirits Die?
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God's Truth
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@Butch5
When a person comes to God through Jesus, they HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, to the heavenly Jerusalem. We actually come to heaven where God is.
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
When people come to God through Jesus, they actually come to heaven, where God is, and Jesus, and to thousands upon thousands of angels, and to the spirit of righteous men made perfect. The spirits of the faithful who had died, but live in the spirit
The Old Testament faithful, who had died before, and Paul and all those first Christians living on earth, together were being made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ, when the gospel was first being proclaimed.
Hebrews 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
The cloud of witnesses were the Old Testament believers who are in heaven, and they were watching as Jesus, the Apostles, and the Prophets proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ…these Old Testament believers who are in their spirit in heaven, they were witnesses to the gospel being proclaimed, witnesses are alive and conscious.
True believers are like living stones being built into a spiritual house.
1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
True believers already have a spiritual resurrection before a physical death. Here are more scriptures explaining this fact.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
John 6:56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,
True believers who are alive on earth are now with Jesus in heaven, when we die physically, we will be with Jesus in heaven in the spirit, and after Jesus resurrects us with immortal bodies, we will live on a new earth with Jesus in the New Jerusalem on earth.
When we die physically, we will be with Jesus in heaven in the spirit. This next scripture is in the passage where Jesus predicts his death. Jesus is going back to the Father.
John 12:26”Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me."
John 14:1-6. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Again, Jesus is talking about going back to heaven to his Father. True believers follow Jesus to heaven.
At the resurrection, after Jesus resurrects us with immortal bodies, we will live on a new earth in the new Jerusalem. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. We will live with God, in our resurrected bodies on this new earth.
Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
I am with Jesus now in heaven, in the Holy City, even as I live on earth. I will be with Jesus when I die, I will be in my spirit, and I will be with Jesus after Jesus resurrects me to live on the new earth.
Christ has made true believers alive in the spirit, John 3:6.
When a person comes to God through Jesus, they HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, to the heavenly Jerusalem. We actually come to heaven where God is.
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
When people come to God through Jesus, they actually come to heaven, where God is, and Jesus, and to thousands upon thousands of angels, and to the spirit of righteous men made perfect. The spirits of the faithful who had died, but live in the spirit
The Old Testament faithful, who had died before, and Paul and all those first Christians living on earth, together were being made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ, when the gospel was first being proclaimed.
Hebrews 11:40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
The cloud of witnesses were the Old Testament believers who are in heaven, and they were watching as Jesus, the Apostles, and the Prophets proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ…these Old Testament believers who are in their spirit in heaven, they were witnesses to the gospel being proclaimed, witnesses are alive and conscious.
True believers are like living stones being built into a spiritual house.
1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
True believers already have a spiritual resurrection before a physical death. Here are more scriptures explaining this fact.
1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
John 6:56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe,
True believers who are alive on earth are now with Jesus in heaven, when we die physically, we will be with Jesus in heaven in the spirit, and after Jesus resurrects us with immortal bodies, we will live on a new earth with Jesus in the New Jerusalem on earth.
When we die physically, we will be with Jesus in heaven in the spirit. This next scripture is in the passage where Jesus predicts his death. Jesus is going back to the Father.
John 12:26”Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me."
John 14:1-6. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Again, Jesus is talking about going back to heaven to his Father. True believers follow Jesus to heaven.
At the resurrection, after Jesus resurrects us with immortal bodies, we will live on a new earth in the new Jerusalem. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. We will live with God, in our resurrected bodies on this new earth.
Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.
I am with Jesus now in heaven, in the Holy City, even as I live on earth. I will be with Jesus when I die, I will be in my spirit, and I will be with Jesus after Jesus resurrects me to live on the new earth.
Christ has made true believers alive in the spirit, John 3:6.
Butch5
Active
It appears you believe these passages refer to people being alive after death. But, none of them "teach" this. Where does Scripture say that man is a being that continues to live on after the body die? You see, If we already believe that, which most people, Christian and non Christian, do, We can find passages that we believe support that idea. If I believed a person was saved by works, I could go through the Scriptures and find passages that could seem to support that idea. The question is, is that what the Scriptures actually teach?
From this post it seems you believe that a spirit is a disembodied living being. But, is that definition of the Greek and Hebrew words? There are 2 Hebrew and 2 Greek words that are translated spirit. They are, Hebrew, Neshamah and Ruach and the Greek, Noe and Pneuma. The definition of these words is Wind. All four words mean wind. By extension they are also translated breath, because, breathing out causes wind. There is a figurative use of these four words and it is the English word spirit. Yep, when you see the word spirit in your Bible, it's a figure of speech. I can address all of your passages, and if you'd like to present them one at a time with your thoughts I'd be happy to do so.
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
(Heb. 12:23-24 KJV)
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. (Gen. 6:17 KJV)
Consider this, In both of the above passages the bolded word is the same Greek word, pneuma. When Paul speaks of the "spirits of just men made perfect" we can translate that, the breaths of just men made perfect. So, what would that mean? In Gen 2:7 the breath of life is plural. It's actually the breath of lives. we're told in Ecclesiastes that when a man dies the body returns to the ground and the breath returns to God. Since the breath returns to God, it's not surprising that Paul speaks of, the breaths of just men made perfect. There's nothing here that requires us to believe that Paul is talking about disembodied living beings
StewardoftheMystery
Active
Man has a body, soul, and spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Our physical body is our outward identity, our soul is our inward identity. The physical body dies, but the soul remains.
Here is proof….
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Jesus spoke of both body and soul…
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The spirit returns to the Lord….
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Our physical body is our outward identity, our soul is our inward identity. The physical body dies, but the soul remains.
Here is proof….
Revelation 6:9-10
King James Version
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Jesus spoke of both body and soul…
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The spirit returns to the Lord….
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Butch5
Active
I don't think that aligns with the creation of man that we find in Genesis.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(KJV Ge 2:7)
According to Moses' record of man's creation God created the man out of the dust of the earth. In this passage the "man" is the body. It appears that the man was inanimate. Moses says that God then breathed into the man the breath of lives and the man became a living soul. From this we can conclude that a soul consists of the man and the breath of life (lives) from God. Scripture tells us that if God takes back the breath that He gives, man would again return to dust. From this we can conclude that man is a physical being created from the dust and infused with life by the breath of God. When God retrieves His breath the man dies and returns to the dust.
StewardoftheMystery
Active
The words of God do not contradict. Jesus said there is both a body and a soul. So the soul and physical body are not the same.
We are told while we are in the physical body we are absent from the Lord. But when we depart from this physical body, we are then present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
King James Version
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
So how can we be present with the Lord without a body? There has to be a soul that is present with the Lord, if not a physical body.
Butch5
Active
That's correct, God's word doesn't contradict. Moses gave us the creation of man. If our understanding doesn't align with that, we should look at our understanding. Obviously Moses wasn't wrong. If we're not in agreement the problem is with us.The words of God do not contradict. Jesus said there is both a body and a soul. So the soul and physical body are not the same.
We are told while we are in the physical body we are absent from the Lord. But when we depart from this physical body, we are then present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:6-8
King James Version
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
So how can we be present with the Lord without a body? There has to be a soul that is present with the Lord, if not a physical body.
Jesus did speak of the body and soul. So did Moses. He said when the body was infused with the breath of God the body, the man, became a living soul. Thus the body is part of the soul. That's right there in the passage.
In the passage from 2 Cor. 5 Paul is talking about the Resurrection. The idea actually begins in chapter 4 and carries through to 5. Notice in the beginning of chapter 5 Paul is talking about mortality being swallowed up of life. He talking about mortality putting on immortality. That's the Resurrection. Paul was a Pharisee and they didn't believe in an intermediate state.
StewardoftheMystery
Active
No, that is incorrect. Jesus made the clear distinction between the body being able to be killed, but not the soul.
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So no, the body and soul are not the same.
Butch5
Active
That's correct. However, he didn't say the soul could not be killed. He said man cannot kill the soul. If we break down his statement we can see why. In the Bible there are Two words translated soul. The Hebrew is Nephesh and the Greek is Psuche. These words are used in two forms. They are used in a concrete sense of a living being. They are also used in an abstract sense and translated life. With this in mind let's look at Jesus statement. Don't fear those who can kill the body but can't kill the life. Well, when someone kills don't they end the life? They do. So what is Jesus referring to? Scripture tells us that God holds our life in His hand. So, no matter what man does to us, our life is ultimately in God's hand. God plans to resurrect everyone in the end, some to eternal life and some to destruction. When man kills it'd not the end of the person, they will be resurrected, thus man killed the body but he didn't end the life. However, fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul. Notice Jesus changed it up a bit. He didn't say God would kill body and soul, He said destroy. When God destroys someone that's it. It's over.
StewardoftheMystery
Active
If man can kill only the body, but not the soul like Jesus said, then clearly the body is not the same as the soul.
But if you don’t believe Jesus’ testimony, then who am I to convince you?
Butch5
Active
I gave you the creation of man right out of Genesis. Is it possible that you may be misunderstanding what Jesus is saying?
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)
This passage tells us plainly that God formed the man from the dust of the earth. Surely that is the body. Then Moses says that the man, the body, became a living soul. If the body became a soul, how can it not be part of the soul?
StewardoftheMystery
Active
I gave you the words of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you misunderstand the Genesis account, and do not know the difference between the body and the soul.
Butch5
Active
I explained the words of Christ and what He meant. Please explain how I'm misunderstanding Gen 2:7
StewardoftheMystery
Active
Lol. You tried to explain away the words of Jesus that proves there is in truth both a body and a soul. Just as there is a physical death of the body, and a spiritual death to the soul that sins.
How else do you suppose one can be dead spiritually while they are still alive in the physical body?
Greetings,
why be disrespectful when engaged in a genuine discussion?
That does not make any sense.
Whether you are correct or not means nothing if there is no charity, as you have probably read about?
Please treat all as you would like Jesus to treat you
Post in Peace
Jesus is the Lord
Bless you ....><>
why be disrespectful when engaged in a genuine discussion?
That does not make any sense.
Whether you are correct or not means nothing if there is no charity, as you have probably read about?
Please treat all as you would like Jesus to treat you
Post in Peace
Jesus is the Lord
Bless you ....><>
Butch5
Active
It seems to me you're not really interested in discussing this. Please address my question and explain how I am misunderstanding Gen 2:7
Spiritual death? Where do you find those words in Scripture
Greetings,
What or How does this then 'fit' ?
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deuteronomy 6:5
and
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:30
Bless you ....><>
What or How does this then 'fit' ?
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deuteronomy 6:5
and
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:30
Bless you ....><>
Curtis
Loyal
Butch5
Active
My understanding of those passages is that it's a reference to the whole person or being. I see the same thing in 1 thes. 5:23
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV 1900): And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He even makes the point here of what he means when he uses the word "wholly"
Butch5
Active
Where do you find that in Scripture?